Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: John McCreary on July 29, 2015, 11:10:00 PM
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Since moving to the western slope of Colorado my stump shooting sessions have been costly. I usually break at least three cedars with each trip. The rocks of the Book Cliff mountains are harder on arrows than the fertile farm ground of Illinois. I tried aluminums but not much better and carbons are pricey. what do you archers of the west use for shafting which holds up?
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look at some gold tip blems from big jim. They're around $53/dozen and if you foot them, you wont break them!
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I have stumped with carbon for years, rocks aside, been fairly cheap when you consider a dozen lasting a few years. Thats out of 60# or a 64# bow with as much as 225 up front.
That said I am kinda getting back into the wood arrows....fir shafts from Surewood that is. The seem to be doing well out of my 56#...haven't broke one yet. Knock on wood. :biglaugh:
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Even with carbons, they still break after a while. I carry two carbons for stump shooting: one with a judo and the other with a plastic blunt. If I think I might hit something hard, I use the plastic blunt.
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I think the Carbon Express Heritage arrows are the toughest arrow made. I have shot some really hard stumps with those and they bounce right off, sometimes breaking the nocks. Very few times have I actually broke the arrow. I would still be shooting the Heritage arrows if Gold Tips didn't fly so dang good out of my bow.
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Footed GT's is the only arrows I use for stumping. Direct rock-hits just bounce off. Spits out the nock sometimes, but the arrows survive just fine.
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How are you footing Gold Tips? Are you using aluminum shafts for the footing?
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How are you footing Gold Tips? Are you using aluminum shafts for the footing?
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Yelp, foot them with about 1/2 of aluminum shaft, you might have to re tune.
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Always broke POC's stump shooting, and I don't by into that but the smell so good when they break thing.
Aluminum is about the same unless you do a bunch of work to them up front which dosen't look very good.
Carbon is much better but you still have to foot them and I like to shoot wood anyway.
Switched to Dougfir years ago and will never change again, I've bounced arrows off direct hits on rocks out west and back here and can't believe how tuff they are. Never have to straiten them or worry about them can they break? Sure they can but they will surprise you. Money well spent and the only problem is that they last so long my arrow builder isn't getting much work from me.
(http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac248/TmPotter47/tipi%20picks/newarrows4.jpg) (http://s904.photobucket.com/user/TmPotter47/media/tipi%20picks/newarrows4.jpg.html)
Tracy
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Any one have any examples of footed carbons? How do you do it?
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GT Kinetics with an inch or more aluminum footing and quit hitting the rocks helps too! ;-)
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http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000098
Using a small tube cutter, cut some sections of aluminum shaft for the footing; usually an inch. If you have an arrow saw you're even better.
Collar the nock end as well with a 1/4" section.
You'll need to prepare the tube ends with a file or sandpaper. I use a bullet casing reamer from RCBS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx43clBhDyA
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Oh..glue on with a good super glue or two part epoxy.
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If you like wood shafts, check out Forrester Shafts
forresterwoodshafts.com
Pricey, but check the videos. Glancing blows have always been the destroyers of my arrows. Dead on (perpendicular hit) shots usually result in a survived shaft.
The footed and collared carbon will eliminate shaft death from glancing shots on all but the most destructive rock.
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I've had good luck with poplar shafts. They are a lot tougher than any other store bought wood arrows I've used and weigh slightly more than POC.
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You can cut off a couple inches of an aluminum shaft and epoxy it onto the point end, in back of the field pt. of your woodies. This footing will help in adding structural strength. But if you hit a rock or really hard ground all arrows will split, bend, and/or break.
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I stump in some very rocky areas also. I think using rubber blunts will give an arrow shaft a better chance surviving a head on with a rock.
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I foot all my carbons these days. We have rocks everywhere, in the desert, in the forests, everywhere. Miss with a wood arrow and not much chance of it living. They do look cool when they splinter into a bunch of pieces. Their is a thread in how to section on what alum shaft sizes match up with various carbons. I use golf shaft epoxy to glue them on.
If you use them for targets you need to chamfer the rear of foot to make it easier to remove. I use a cheap plumbers chamfering tool I got at Harbor Frieght.
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There are two arrows which are nearly indestructible: Ash and Hard Rock Maple
Personally, I prefer the hard rock maple shaft tail tapered. There is another good option:
Use the arrow-fix tool and repair your shafts with short ash/maple/hickory or black locust footings just behind the point. For me, breaking an arrow behind the point is no reason to worry. I hate if I loose an arrow because I can't find it.
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I use 2114s on 35-55 GT trads
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I stump shoot and shoot small game in rocky country primarily. I've never looked back from footed Gold Tip Trads.
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I chase ground squirrels all year . And the where I hunt them is full of rocks I think doug fir is the best I used . I think they hold up better than my carbons did. Got my from Sure Wood :thumbsup: .
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Another alternative to using aluminum shaft footing is using a single strand of fast flight string material. I clean it of wax and use it to bind both the nock end and behind the point. Hold it down with CA glue. Several wind is enough on each end. The added weight is minimal with this method.
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Aside from footing carbons you can add a hard wood forging yo your cedars.. Carbons being much easier to foot.
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Western Larch hold up really well. I have had some direct hits on some pretty hard stuff and they have survived intact. Sometimes it will bounce the nock off but the shaft usually survives. Kootenai River Archery has them at a reasonable price. He also has ash shafts which are tough. I have never been able to break one but they are heavy and a little harder to keep straight.
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carbon express heritage. Can buy used at decent price. But even if you buy new they last, hold up great.
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I have shot Easton axis for years with a compound and now with my longbow. I am always breaking arrows. The compound had the front end mushrooming.
I am footing them now for my longbow, front on impacts are ok but angled impacts bend the insert every time. With a well performing bow angled impacts are always going to present a challenge in durability.
I am shooting about 54lbs Thunderchild and shooting 400spined axis trad with 250gr upfront plus a 20gr footing of 2016 alum, I am trying to source some 2018 alum footing so I get a thicker side wall for more strength. I have also been using hot melt, but struggled to get a good bond and fill. I will use JBweld when I settle on a final setup which I hope will add better cohesion in my setup.
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Also try to use plain blunts. My experience has been that if I use any blunt that is wider than the shaft, an edge hit on something hard supplies more torque ( or whatever that force is called) and tends to break the arrow right behind the head.
ChuckC
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A recent post with a lot of helpful replies.
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=148875
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Douglas fir!
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I live here in Grand Junction. I spend lots of time in the desert at the base of the Books chasing rabbits with my long bow. Destroyed about 12 aluminum shafts last season. I recently bought some Gt Blems from Big Jim, and footed them with about an inch of aluminum. I haven't put them through any hard impacts yet, but think they will hold up alot better than my aluminum shafts did. If you end up getting 1535's I have some aluminum shafting that will work for footing that a fellow trad ganger sent me. If you need some let me know.
Welcome to Western Colorado. More public land with in 45 miles than one can explore in a life time.
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Try hickory. They're tanks. Thank me later.
Put a rubber blunt on a straight grained hickory arrow for such roving and you'll likely get sick of looking at it before it breaks.
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Footed Gold Tips with 100gr brass inserts. I've gone to this setup with durability as one of the primary reasons.
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Your quote carbons are pricey unquote is relative .....
if they don't break they're not costly.
Not trying to be a smart alec but it's true cost is relative to durability you could also buy some hard wood shafts that are more durable than Cedar
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Daniel gave you good advice above regarding the gold tip blems from Big Jim. As he said--foot them with aluminum. You do this and you will not break them--they are indestructible---ok as close to it as you can get. I am very tough on arrows as I shoot stumps very often and am not selective--I'll shoot a hard stump if it looks at me wrong. I use a field tip with a T-nut behind it. My shafts are 1535 and I foot with 2017s. I foot 1 1/4 inches up front and 3/8" at the nock end. Very seldom will I break an arrow doing this--I usually have my arrows for a very long time often refletching, cresting, etc. before I lose one. Now if I can figure out how to keep deer from breaking them I'd be in good shape.
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Hey Mac! Good to see ou are getting out andflinging some arrows! I footed my last dozen of 1535s from Big Jim. I don't know how you can do much better. (Kim's Jim)
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I agree with footing Carbon shafts and Using Big Rubber Blunts.
I saw one guy who had these plunger looking things on the end of his arrow. I dont remember how he made them but he didn't lose or break arrows. He was a darn fine shot but didn't have the luxury of pulling well placed arrows out of a soft stump either lol.