I'm shooting a 62" classic whip 54#@28" my arrows are Doug fir 28" from back of point to nock valley 3x5" shield cut tru flight feathers, spined at 55-60lb tipped with 160gr steel field points.
For some reason I always hit to the left and it seems that they don't move around the bow so well upon release... My form is probably bad as well but I've been trying to learn how to shoot just from reading and watching videos.
Haven't found many people around me that shoot trad, most I know are shooting wheels or the X things.
Just sort of got the bow then went willy nilly into the arrow and point selection and well basically the whole trad area as well. I do however shoot the longbow better than the recurve I have.
I have been trying my best at sticking a groundhog with it this year, I've come scary close but can't seem to connect
Do you shoot RH or LH? Others need to know in order to help you out.
order you some heavier point weights, this will tell you if its too stiff if your arrow starts moving to the right.. might be able to get a sampler pack from 3 Rivers or someone so you dont have to buy a bunch of one weight until you figure out which you need.. Im thinking you need around 200 gr. or so with 28 in. arrow, especially if your only drawing 27 in.
More likely too soft, though you should be close, or a form issue. My wife has had (still has one) two whips: I asked Dan about what spine, he said 5 lbs. over bow weight (I take that as 5 lbs. dynamic spine). Made up a set to those specs, and they fly beautifully.
So, in your case, tell us your draw length, and whether you want to keep 160 for points, and I'll wager we'll get you mighty close, if not spot on.
Shoot right handed,my draw length is unknown on this bow but I do draw to the back of the point on the arrow, I'd like to keep the 160gr tip weight as I have 160gr aces mounted on 3 arrows (sometimes worry about losing a finger when I draw with those, glad the back of them isn't sharp)
The 5# more spine sounds correct for me. Is your bow close to center shot? Are you trying to shoot this bow straight up or are you canting it? Are you "peeking"? All of the above can make your arrow go left. I note your other bow is a recurve. Maybe you need to turn your bow arm's wrist in a little.
I bet you can guess where I got the above insights. I am guilty of all of the above going from my recurves to a longbow. Especially the "peeking".
Is there a,side,plate,of any type on your bow?
As a quick test you could add some thickness, maybe several thicknesses of tape to your side plate. This should make it worse and go along with spine a little heavy.
I bet itfthose were cut to 29" they would be perfect.
There are wood arrow extensions available.
The obvious question often fails to get asked in a situation like this...how long have you been shooting and roughly how many arrows do you think you have launched?
DDave
I've had it since August 2013 or close to there and as far as shots taken, never counted but I'd say roughly 500-700, I don't get to shoot nearly as much as I'd like and I can't shoot at home or after work due to working nights.
Does have a side plate and a hair rest, don't have it with me but guessing its close to 1/8" thick
I would think your arrows are weak not too stiff. Can you come to full draw with a broad head on instead of a field point without hitting your riser ? You could get a stiff arrow read if your are way under drawing, but if you are close to 28" then I would try 60-65's or even 65-70's ... I shot 55#'s for years and a 28" draw on several style bows and shot 70-75 cedars.
Good luck
I have some 225 and 260 grain glue on points that I don't use anymore. If you want to try them I can send some to you. No sense in buying them until you find out you need them.
I think elkken is probably right.
On my 53@28, I am pulling around 51#, and shoot a 60/65 Sitka Spruce with 160 heads.
On my 54@28 Tall Tines, I am shooting 70/75 Surewoods with 160 heads. I have a 54# longbow that shot the 70/75 with 160's well also.
I know, different bows than you are shooting, so take it for what it's worth, but I am getting really nice flight.
I recently shot completely through a nice bear with the 60/65 arrow.
I guess something has changed over the years.
I always shot 55 to 60 pound spine from my 50 to 55 pound,bows. 5 pounds over was the standard.
I know some bows have the shelf cut past center,and it changes,everything.
Is the using 3 fingers under having a effect?
I know this doesn't help answer the question. We always changed one thing at a time, like the point weight to see which direction was needed.
Good luck.
All the advice in the world won't help you if you don't know your draw length. Measure this first and then go from there.
You do need to add 5# of spine weight to your shafts just from going up from 125gr pts to 160gr pts.
You've got a nice bow!
I draw till the broadhead touches the front of the riser, I shoot split finger also, I have some uncut carbons somewhere in the house. Could draw one then mark it when I'm at full draw, the arrows I'm shooting now fit fine when I first started shooting but flew about the same from what I remember
Measured bit with an uncut carbon I had laying around and from the front of the riser to valley of nock was 28 1/2"
Well let's go with your draw length as 28 1/2" for now... next, do you want the back edge of your broad head touching the riser, or do you want a little extra arrow length for clearance?
Bit extra never hurts
A little extra is nice. When the excitement and adrenalin hit when drawing on a deer over drawing will pull the arrow off the string if broadhead hits riser.
With a 28 1/2 draw old way was add,1 inch.
I'll try to get out Friday or Saturday to get pics of groups and then try to get them on here if I can
That sounds good. And tell us what length you want your arrows to be, from valley of nock to back of point...you'll have your spine pretty well narrowed down then.
By the way: if your draw is 28" to the back edge of the broad head, and 28 1/2" on a shaft without a point... not a big difference, but which do you think is more common for you?
When I started with it the 28" BOP worked for me but now it seems that it stops me from drawing all the way back
You need to do a bareshaft test. With bareshaft, nock left sticking into target almost always indicate weak and nock right indicate stiff. Hitting left with feathers can mean they are too stiff or too weak. Weak arrows will impact the riser at the nock end causing it to kick away initially. With a bareshaft it will bareshaft plane to impact right as the arrow is pointed right by the nock left caused by riser impact. With a fletched arrow, it will kick left then feathers correct its direction so it stays left and hit left of aim point.
So I should strip the feathers off one or two arrows and then shoot them? I don't imagine I'd be able to reuse them afterwards
Wet and flatten the feathers down will do. Test at 7 yards or so see how they stick into target. Or step back 15-20 yards see how they fly and group.
Did get to shoot today in the last few minutes of light, managed to lose an arrow in the process. I have pictures of two 3 shot groups but trying to upload from a phone isn't exactly fun
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The bow and my first attempted wood arrows
Is it the same arrow that hits left of your group.
Is the grain of the arrows oriented the same on all arrows .
I not familiar with Doug fur but I know on POC's, the grain should be horizontal to the bow. Otherwise you can get varying dynamic spines causing fliers
It does seem to be the same arrow in both groups, I do have the grain running horizontal. The arrow I missed completely with was also to the left.
These were at 10yds and with what little light I had left I was surprised to even hit it at all
I'd say get rid of that arrow.
Do you spine your arrows or just trust what the seller spines them at.
Maybe just a off arrow. Missed spined or just a little less than straight. The others looked to be grouping well.
I scanned through this and did not see how they appear to fly on a long shot. If my wood arrows appear to fly nice and I have one arrow with a mind of its own, I check that arrow for straightness and I change the nock. A slight nock problem can cause a consistent miss. If my wood arrows appear to fly correct and stable on a long shot and if I do not see any problems with the 'S' curve, I declare that I shot that arrow where it went. As an example, when I shoot a bow with a deeper sight window and more center shot, even though the arrow may fly correct, my first shots will show that the arrow will hit to the bow side. If I have been shooting my recurve and then shoot my longbow, the arrow will appear to have moved away from the bow. I then end up shooting a few arrows intentionally split image aiming, I almost always find that I am pointing the arrow in the direction that arrow is missing. Once the correction is grooved in, things seems to automatically repair themselves.
He pointed out that he has had an increase in draw length, if he is purely instinctive aiming, there could easily be things going on that can be moving the nock of the arrow to the right side of the sight line at full draw and the arrow is pointing to the left and off the eye line. I would suggest to make certain that the arrow is under the eye and in line with the target at full draw. If he is a split finger shooter, I would suggest to anchor with the middle finger on or near the corner of the mouth and cant the bow, if the test shots are being shot downward and only ten yards back, the bow should have a considerable cant.
Pavan must have some really good binoculars. Last part of that post described exactly how I was shooting and my anchor, bow kept close to a 30-35° cant and slightly downhill.
This weekend I'll field point all of my remaining arrows and shoot them into a group to see if more of them end up out of the poa
I bought them from 3 rivers about two years ago and I do not have a spine tester and they are all as straight as I can get them
Also, I don't shoot over 15 yards... As it was getting dark fast and that's my comfort zone <15yd
I have a really big telescope. If your form is good try backing up to about 20 yards or longer, it may show you more what is going on.
That's another thing, I've no idea if my form is good or really bad as I can't see myself when I'm shooting, but if stepping back is a good way to find out then that is what I'll do
Shooting fletched arrows are not going to tell anything about your arrow tune. Left impact could be stiff arrows, weak arrows or your form.
He is shooting doug fir arrows. Wood arrows do not work the same for bare shaft testing like foc carbons.
Yes you can bareshaft test wood arrows. They work the same way except that grossly underspined arrows may break if they hit the target sideways. If they are close to the right spine you should be fine.
Paper tuning is better with fletched wood arrows. I think If his 's' curve is running a bit wide, a simple change to a lighter point would indicate a spine issue if the 's' curve ran more predictable. With the Howard Hill videos in slow motion with wood arrows, one can see that the arrow first bends into the bow, then around it. With that bow and arrow with a 28" plus draw and 160 grain points, he may be under spined and the arrow to left is actually a wide 's' curve or a deflection from either form nock tightness or something else.
Yes very likely underspined. I agree paper tuning at a short distance should tell something.
And I'll get to try out my birthday present.. When I got home last night I found a big shot elk glove on the table.
That is a nice birthday present.
My Whip is cut slightly past center so the strike plate is right on center and it needs at least 10 pounds spine over draw weight. I built the shelf out instead.
I shoot only wood arrows and much prefer paper tuning. It tells me clearly what is going on with arrow flight, is easy to interpret and is not so critical of form. Tuning close, like 6 feet, works best for me. There is great paper tuning info on the Elite Arrows site.
OS90, if your Whip is cut to center like mine, for a 29" BOP arrows and 160 point, I figure 75-80 lb spine shafts. Do you want to try some test arrows?
Dan said this one was cut just before center, it does have a strike plate.
I plan on shooting Friday evening after work at 20 yards to see how they do farther out.
But I'd be willing to try just about anything. I have some 125gr points just have to find them
Correction, the other points I have are 135gr judo points.
Not sure how much of a difference they would make