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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Ron LaClair on July 01, 2015, 08:47:00 AM

Title: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Ron LaClair on July 01, 2015, 08:47:00 AM
A week and a half ago at the Compton Rendezvous John Lee, Chuck Deshler and I sat and talked about the Hill style bow and how they should be made. John knew Howard and learned first hand from him how he made his bows. John actually made three bows for Howard before he died.

As we three sat and talked, John told Chuck what Howard had passed on to him. He drew sketches on paper and Chuck took notes. Today Chuck brought over the first bow he made after Johns instructions. He made it left handed so I could try it and I must say it's a very sweet shooter.

   (http://***********.bowsite.com/tf/pics/00small36872086.JPG)
   (http://***********.bowsite.com/tf/pics/00small73784795.JPG)
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: kevsuperg on July 01, 2015, 09:24:00 AM
tell me about your grip ron.
i have a hill reverse handle and i choke it like it owes me money.
your grip seems very relaxed, like a recurve.
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: mike g on July 01, 2015, 09:39:00 AM
Wow, What a tease....
   Now Ron, Finish the story....
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Ray Lyon on July 01, 2015, 10:49:00 AM
John Lee is a super entertaining man to listen too. I've only done so a few times around a campfire, but it's been a real treat. Good to see Chuck putting John's knowledge into play.     :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Ron LaClair on July 01, 2015, 02:07:00 PM
Quotetell me about your grip ron. i have a hill reverse handle and i choke it like it owes me money. your grip seems very relaxed, like a recurve.  
There are many styles of form in archery, as for myself I've always adhered to Howards advice, "upon release both hands do nothing". I keep a loose grip on the bow so as to let the bow do it's thing without the influence of pressures from my hand.

In my competitive tournament days all through the 60's almost everyone shot with an open hand and a "keeper" leather strap around the wrist to keep from dropping the bow.
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: on July 01, 2015, 02:19:00 PM
I used a leather 'keeper' on my target bows too.  I do squeeze a longbow into my hand at the beginning of the draw and then loosen up.  Those 20 yard PAA targets mess with my brain even today. When I shoot at one I instinctively open my hand. There is no hand shock in a Hill style bow when the hand is completely open. It is a bit embarrassing when I have walk forward to pick my bow off the ground.
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: kevsuperg on July 01, 2015, 03:00:00 PM
awesome, i guess i'll have to try a loose grip.
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Terry Green on July 01, 2015, 03:23:00 PM
"Hold it like a bird....not too tight as to hurt it....and just tight enough so it can't fly away"....HH
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: kevsuperg on July 01, 2015, 03:42:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:
"Hold it like a bird....not too tight as to hurt it....and just tight enough so it can't fly away"....HH
perfect, explains it all. i just had always been told that about recurves and to squeeze the daylights outta a longbow
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: STICKBENDER98 on July 01, 2015, 04:13:00 PM
I'm slowly starting to realize that about my grip as well.  I have a N.M. Baraga, and a reverse handle Whisper, and I shoot them pretty much with the same grip as I do my recurves.  I have also had to switch from shooting 3 under to split with them.  It's been a fun and sometimes frustrating learning experience for me.
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: monterey on July 01, 2015, 04:51:00 PM
Moe Arne has some good info on here regarding gripping a long bow.  Not sure where to find it at the moment.  When I started doing it as he suggests, my groups tightened up!
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: beyondmyken on July 01, 2015, 05:35:00 PM
Terry, I hold my bow like it is an ostrich trying to get away.  Is that the same thing?  :)
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: TSP on July 01, 2015, 05:59:00 PM
Lol, beyondmyken.  I find that gripping it like the neck of a large angry Guinnea Hen is about right.  Or maybe like the neck of a medium-sized American Condor as it's lifting off with my other arm in it's beak.  Something like that.

I'm afraid that little canary wouldn't stand a chance.  Squish...Poof!     :biglaugh:
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Orion on July 01, 2015, 06:31:00 PM
Hey Terry.  Is that quote in one of Howard's books?  Definitely worth repeating.  Don't know how folks got the idea that one needs to put a death grip on a longbow. That's one of the things that leads to a lot of felt hand shock, regardless of the bow being shot. Those folks who say a Hill "rattles" their teeth, are probably gripping the bow too tightly.

That's probably not the secret(s) you were talking about Ron, but a revelation to some just the same.    :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: kevsuperg on July 01, 2015, 06:46:00 PM
i think, for me atleast, the death grip came from selfbows.
i had always been a longbow admirer from afar. compounds and recurves were my bows of choice.
when i became enlightened and started diving into all things trad, especially making selfbows, i was always told to hold the recurve " dainty" and the have a firm solid grip on long and self bows.
i have a four day weekend and a new package of parts and pieces from three rivers . so i'll be doing alot of grip testing.
by the way ron , i hope we arent hijacking you're thread. will you be at ETAR in the coming weeks
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Terry Green on July 01, 2015, 06:56:00 PM
Yes.....that was a quote from HH.

Another quote. ..."I made many a shot instinctive on game once I started hunting"
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: nineworlds9 on July 01, 2015, 07:06:00 PM
AWESOME to hear this news and see this Ron!!  The first Shrew Hill was a SWEET bow, still my favorite Hill I've ever tried aside from Steve Turay's bows.  This is very exciting.  Will Chuck's new bow be as slim in the limbs and deep in the grip as the original Shrew Hill was??
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: awbowman on July 01, 2015, 08:10:00 PM
I like to settle it in the straight back fat part below the thumb so as not to torque the bow then just close the hand with low to moderate grip strength.  Doing it right places the force in back straight part of hand.  Not nearly as loose as Ron's picture but not strong either
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Ron LaClair on July 01, 2015, 08:28:00 PM
Quote Will Chuck's new bow be as slim in the limbs and deep in the grip as the original Shrew Hill was??  
I've been talking with Chuck for some time now about bringing back the   ShrewHill  Chuck knows his stuff so I know he'll make em right.    :readit:
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: WESTBROOK on July 01, 2015, 09:47:00 PM
Ron, you gonna bring that to the GLLI so we can have a closer look...   :D
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Ron LaClair on July 02, 2015, 09:33:00 AM
This bow has Tiger Myrtle on the back, bamboo core, bocote riser and brown glass on the belly

  (http://***********.bowsite.com/tf/pics/00small26742001.JPG)

  (http://***********.bowsite.com/tf/pics/00small45257860.JPG)
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: frank bullitt on July 02, 2015, 12:21:00 PM
Nice looking stick, Chuck and Ron!   :thumbsup:  

Any chance down the road for a reverse handle version?
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Ron LaClair on July 02, 2015, 02:09:00 PM
I know it's blasphemous but this bow loves 15-35 carbons. Four shot group from 15yd's.

  (http://***********.bowsite.com/tf/pics/00small41737453.JPG)
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Hermon on July 02, 2015, 03:27:00 PM
What poundage is it Ron?
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Ray Lyon on July 02, 2015, 04:45:00 PM
Ron, wash your fingers (not mouth since you typed it) off with soap and call Paul Jalon and get some proper arrows.  Hey, come to think of it those Forgewoods I gave you are pretty light spined, did you try those?
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Ron LaClair on July 02, 2015, 05:46:00 PM
By golly Ray, you're right I'll try em.     :archer2:

Hermon, it's pretty light weight, 36#@ 28" but surprisingly it really zings those light arrows. Maybe it's Hill's "secret" formula    :dunno:  

  :D
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: on July 02, 2015, 06:31:00 PM
37@26.5" will kill an Iowa whitetail with skinny forgewoods and a 140 Hill, 36@28" with forgewoods should be okay for a Michigan whitetail as well.
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Stone Knife on July 02, 2015, 06:36:00 PM
I learned a few things here today, thanks.
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Terry Green on July 02, 2015, 07:59:00 PM
Ron. .....we need to talk.....call you when I get back.
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Dan bree on July 02, 2015, 11:13:00 PM
Ron what kind of cut is that on the feathers of your arrows  ? I've been looking for that style.
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Ron LaClair on July 03, 2015, 08:58:00 AM
Dan, the arrows were made for me by Paul Jalon of Elite Arrows. It's a modified shield cut that he burned. 4.5" high back that stabilize a broadhead really well.
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Dan bree on July 03, 2015, 10:40:00 AM
Thanks Ron
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Terry Green on July 03, 2015, 05:56:00 PM
I noticed that cut as well... I had someone custom make me some almost like that just recently..... very nice
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: mark Willoughby on July 03, 2015, 08:42:00 PM
I think I'm getting a itch
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Ron LaClair on July 04, 2015, 10:18:00 PM
My grandson came to visit this weekend. He wanted to shoot some arrows so he shot the Shrewhill. He's a lefty like me and so is my son, his dad.

  (http://***********.bowsite.com/tf/pics/00small55725094.JPG)
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Traxx on July 04, 2015, 11:04:00 PM
Ron,

Glad you posted this thread over here as well,so we can enjoy it.
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Ray Lyon on July 05, 2015, 05:55:00 AM
Hey buddy,  Jordan's form looks good and he looks like he'd be a great deer dragger....how's he do at dishes and hauling wood?
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Ron LaClair on July 05, 2015, 09:39:00 AM
He told me yesterday that he wants to come to Shrewhaven this fall. He's a personal injury Attorney in Illinois but he said he's also licensed to practice in Michigan. It would be good to have a lawyer in the group in case we ever needed one don't you think?
http://www.pninjurylaw.com/attorney/jordan_laclair/
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Ray Lyon on July 05, 2015, 04:31:00 PM
Ron, no lawyering needed in the UP.  That's what guns are for. Roger is getting a little long in the tooth for all but the wood stove.tending so it might be nice to have a younger whippersnapper around.
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Ron LaClair on July 06, 2015, 05:04:00 PM
He's not a whippersnapper, he's 30 years old but I'm sure he can fetch and tote better than the old coons in camp.

  (http://***********.bowsite.com/tf/pics/00small65699452.JPG)
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Shinken on July 06, 2015, 10:08:00 PM
WOW!  Looks to be the spittin' image!

You should be a proud Grandpa Mr. LaClair!

Keep the wind in your face!

Shoot straight, Shinken

  :archer2:
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Ron LaClair on July 07, 2015, 10:42:00 AM
He has my nose that's for sure.   :biglaugh:
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Mudd on July 07, 2015, 02:35:00 PM
He looks like he'd make a fine addition to "Shrewhaven"

:archer:
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Ron LaClair on July 07, 2015, 04:46:00 PM
QuoteHe looks like he'd make a fine addition to "Shrewhaven"  
I'm happy that he wants to be a part of deer camp. If Shrewhaven gets in his blood like it did mine then the tradition will carry on after I'm gone.
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: 2treks on July 07, 2015, 06:38:00 PM
I think he was at my knees last time I saw him.
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Roger Norris on July 08, 2015, 04:41:00 PM
Long in the tooth hell! I can still haul wood and tote water with the best of them!!

Of course, if somebody is volunteering.....there is whiskey to drink..   :bigsmyl:
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Ray Lyon on July 08, 2015, 06:13:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Roger Norris:
Long in the tooth hell! I can still haul wood and tote water with the best of them!!

Of course, if somebody is volunteering.....there is whiskey to drink..    :bigsmyl:  
Heck buddy. I figured you would only be hanging out on Widow  threads from here on out and it was safe for me to talk about you behind your back.    :p    :wavey:
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Roger Norris on July 09, 2015, 06:49:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by Ray Lyon:
 
QuoteOriginally posted by Roger Norris:
Long in the tooth hell! I can still haul wood and tote water with the best of them!!

Of course, if somebody is volunteering.....there is whiskey to drink..     :bigsmyl:  
Heck buddy. I figured you would only be hanging out on Widow  threads from here on out and it was safe for me to talk about you behind your back.     :p      :wavey:  [/b]
:biglaugh:
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Ron LaClair on July 09, 2015, 11:13:00 AM
QuoteHeck buddy. I figured you would only be hanging out on Widow threads from here on out  
WHAT?? Roger's got a Widder?  What would Howard say to that?   :knothead:      :banghead:      :nono:
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: awbowman on July 09, 2015, 11:26:00 AM
Roger with a WIDDER .......I'll believe it when I see it.  Proof of purchase is in order   :readit:
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Ray Lyon on July 09, 2015, 11:48:00 AM
Ron, Howard said he wasn't good enough to shoot recurves.  Obviously, Roger is a better shot than the rest of us longbow lovers, because he's got a Black Widow recurve.    ;)
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: kshunter55 on July 09, 2015, 12:03:00 PM
Come on guys you know how it is.  Sometimes at the end of the night you end up with the ugly girl!!!!! haha  

Ron, I might have to stop by  when the wife and I are in Michigan.  I don't have a Hill style LB, and this may be the one I was waiting on.

Andy Dirks
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Ron LaClair on July 09, 2015, 12:27:00 PM
Hey Andy, good to hear you're still kicking. I hear those big bucks you've got in Kansas just walk right up to you and say, "Take me, take me"    :D

  (http://***********.bowsite.com/tf/pics/00small34002405.JPG)
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Ray Lyon on July 09, 2015, 01:06:00 PM
Ron, let's make a trade.  You help out Andy with the Shrewhill and he helps us out with the Tigers.     :pray:
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: kshunter55 on July 09, 2015, 04:28:00 PM
Yes and they all have a dot where u need to hit them!
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: STICKBENDER98 on July 09, 2015, 05:02:00 PM
Ron, I thinks it's great your grandson want to go to deer camp with you!  I remember what is was like for me waiting until I was old enough to go to my grandpa's camp. It was a very special time for me to get to spend with him, my dad and brother, my uncle and cousin.  Unfortunately we lost him to cancer, and I only got to spend 7 hunting seasons with him, but I will always treasure the time and memories that I had there with him.  I always look forward to the posts you and your camp mates post on here about, and from Shrewhaven.

Jason
Title: Re: Hills secrets revealed
Post by: Terry Green on July 11, 2015, 10:24:00 PM
:goldtooth: