There has been alot of talk about bowhunting ethics on the post concerning head on shots at deer, so I'll share something that I have been struggling lately as far as hunting ethics:
I am a new bowhunter (actually pretty new to hunting in general) and have had quite a few shots at deer during this season thus far. In fact, I have shot at 9 deer this year. All of them have been broadside or quatering away and inside of my effective range. All shots have been clean misses.
This is really something that suprises me because at the same range that these shots have been taken I know I can hit a tennis ball or stick a squirrel in the head.
I am beggining to feel uncomfortable in shooting at an animal. My thought process goes something like "If I can't even hit a deer what would be the chances that when I do it will be a good shot? What if instead of just over the back the arrow ends up just out of the kill-zone?". I really have zero disire to wound an animal and not be able to retrieve it.
So I guess my question is do YOU think that continuing to hunt this season is ethical?
Thanks in advance for the input, I really appreciate having a group of tradional bowhunters that are always willing to give a new guy a hand, Juniper Bow
YES you should continue to hunt! Fred Bear carried a file with him to resharpen his broadheads- guess why????
Besides- you have to break my miss record: before you can even think about quitting.
Pick a spot; a hair. Shoot at it: and not the deer!!
Taylor, Don't let it bother you. It happens to everyone. It's one thing to stand and fling arrows at a target. It's a whole different ball game with a wild animal as the target. My guess is you are just getting nervous and forgetting the basics. Just try to stay as calm as you can and make sure that your form stays good and you pick a spot. Most young people (and a lot of seasoned hunters) get caught up in the moment and just shoot at the whole deer without picking the spot. Keep hunting. It will all come together. Just look at this site and you will see a lot of seasoned hunters talking about all thier misses.
Rob
Sounds like buck fever has got you shooting at the whole animal and not picking(and concentrating on) a spot.
But then you mention shooting just over the back. Are you shooting from a tree or other elevated stand? If so it could be as simple as not bending at the waist( a common mistake). Lowering your bow arm to shoot down at something and not bending at the waist throws your form off and generally leads to shooting just over the back.
Maybe a combination of both?
As far as ethics go; you're never going to get good at shooting live game without shooting at live game. imo There is no other way to gain the confidence needed. You just have to get out there and give it your best, learn from your mistakes and try try again.
Just be glad that you're not hunting for your food!
AIM SMALL. MISS SMALL.
I think BamBoo Bender might have nailed it. If you're shooting from an elevated stand, there is a tendency to shoot high.
Spend some time practicing from an elevated stand. Make sure to bend at the waist.
Many people lift their head at the time of the shot so they can see it hit the animal. This almost always causes the person to shoot high.
Another thing...you have to learn how to kill. Killing does not come easy at first. Modern man is not used to being in close proximity to big game animals that he intends to kill. You are nervous, can hardly breath, tend to rush the shot and fail to pick a spot, because you want to get it done before the animal escapes. Understand if the animal knew you wre there, it would be long gone, so take your time BREATH, pick a spot and execute the shot like you would do on a target. After you kill your first one you will find it much easier on the second one and so forth.
it's ok to get nervous AFTER the shot, but to kill well you should not be nervous DURING the shot.
If you've missed nine times inside your effective range, then maybe you ought to rethink your "effective range" for a while. It's good they were all clean misses: aside from the obvious negatives for the deer, a bad shot on an animal might put you off hunting. Keep after it. You'll get there!
Just learning to relax and focus... try something like slowing counting back words from 100 as you wait for the shot... when its there tell yourself, slow draw, focus on the crease behind the leg exhale... and let er rip... anything that can help you stay calm and do the things you haven't been doing...
Its easy you can do... its just the adrenaline surge... thats what you need to control... Tell you what... since you've had 9 shots, you're hunting a real good area,,,, if you can't do it this year, I'll come help you with it next year free of charge!!! :bigsmyl: :goldtooth:
I was just thinking the same thing Slasher.
Tell ya what Taylor, I'm so nice a guy, I won't make you wait until next year ;)
Seriously though, as others have said, I am in agreement and think the only way to get good at killing animals is to kill animals. I would suggest doing some more small game hunting and working up from there if you are having a tough time with deer-sized game. Remember to pick THE spot...you are trying to simply hit THE spot, not kill the animal...that's just a result of hitting THE spot.
I think there is a learning curve in the bowhunting process. Problems for me shooting at animals have more psychological and emotional components that makes shooting at an animal so different from shooting a target it is, well, another world kind of thing. It actually quite a dramatic moment when you get a chance...feeling excited, timing the shot so the animal is most vulnerable, remembering to shoot well, etc. I have been doing this thing for over half century and I still get excited, still miss and am always looking for the next opportunity. If I fail to fully concentrate on where I want the arrow to go I usually have a problem with shot placement. Same goes for when I peek and try to see where the arrow should hit without maintaining proper follow thru. I am afraid it is only something that gets better with time and you needn't beat yourself up over it. In fact, when an animal presents you with a shot there is no law that says you have to shoot. Sometimes, just being there and observing how animals behave and you "role playing" without any intent to kill can be as thrilling and exciting as making your first kill...it is certainly exciting and educational. Why deprive yourself of those experiences by hanging up your bow for the season? Get out there and hunt and if yo decide not to shoot, then don't. You have had a good time and had a chance to study your quarry. Shoot when you feel ready and rather than quitting, even for one season, get more determined to accept the challenge and figure out what is going wrong. Deer have a bad habit of jumping the string and if you are hunting from treestands I hope that you are practicing from one or at least from an elevated structure like a porch or roof. Shooting from treestands is way different than shooting from the ground. In any event, go hunting and enjoy all the other benefits that come with it. The kill is always anticlimatic for me anyway.
Juniper,
Not much I can say that hasn't already been said by these guys. While I'm practicing on a regular target (bale, block or whatever) I can hit the racket ball sized bull 9 out of ten times. When it approaches near season I bring out my 3-d deer target and put it in front of the bale. You would laugh your @** off to see the size of the first few groups! It takes me a good two or three target sessions to get the mental picture in my head right and to get over the 'buck fever' that even that target gets me into. But I guess that's why we practice!! Now after that practice I'm much calmer when I do see live animals too.
-Chad
The fact that you have had 9 clean misses inside of your known effective target range leads me to conclude, as others above have, that you are shooting at the whole animal and not a specific spot on the animal. If indeed this is what's going on, and I'm pretty sure it is, you don't have to worry very much about poor hits because as long as you continue to shoot at the deer instead of a specific hair on the deer, you will continue to miss clean.
I'm not being critical or trying to discourage you at all. In fact I can relate all to well with your experience. I shot targets and small game for years before I was old enough to get a license and hunt for deer. Now in those days I was a very good shot. Being a kid with nothing to keep me from it, I practiced every day for several hours. To shorten this story - in my first four years of deer hunting I cleanly missed every single deer that I shot at, about 50 total and some were as close as ten feet! That's about the time that the first compounds were comming out. I got a Bear Whitetail Hunter WITH SIGHT PINS ON IT, practiced with the new contraption all summer and did a perfect double lung shot on the very first doe that walked passed my stand that year! It wasn't the compound bow that made the difference it was the sight pin that forced me to pick out that little spot behind the shoulder and prevented me from shooting at the whole deer. More importantly it clearly showed me what I had been doing wrong for the previous four years.
I'm not saying that you need to use a sight, though some trad shooters do use them. I'm saying that you can't fix any problem until you recognise what it is.
Next chance you get, take your time and focus all of your attention on one specific hair behind the shoulder and let 'er go... I'll bet you'll be posting pics of your first trad kill soon.
-Sharps
In addition to the above comments, make sure you practice shooting a few of your broadheads, not just with field points.
Juniper you say you can hit a tennis ball or a squirrel's head at these same distances consistantly. OK pick the spot on the deer you's like the arrow to go and them envision a tennis ball or a squirrel's head there. Even if you just miss the tennis ball or squirrel's head you'll kill the deer.
I am thinking along the same line as JBB. May be a tuning problem with your broadheads? Did you spin test them? And have you practiced shooting with your broadheads. Just a thought. But I also agree with what others have said... I suspect you're aiming at the whole animal and not following through on the shot, bow arm shouldn't move until you see the arrow fletch in it's mark... and no peeking over the arrow.
quit worrying about missing and start concentrating on hitting.
some people phyc themselves up so much about missing an animal that they physc them selves into not hitting one either.
I'm not trying to pick nats with Ferret as I respect what he has to say but nevousness during the shot is a reality for most of us. That said, though, the nervous energy must be controlled and channeled effectively for your shot to be any count. I'm not going to say I've killed many or any animals with a simple bare bow (yet) but I have been up close and personal with many different kinds of animals, and killed quite of few of them in the process. Last year my deer was 9 steps. I have a passion for calling coyotes and the closer the better at times. And I would be dead if my heart didn't start beating quicker in these times. But to make an accurate shot we cannot let our emotions conquer the moment. (That is for all of life, not just hunting) The advise about getting close and not shooting just to get the experience is solid gold. It also helps you understand your quarry better, too.
I agree with most everything said but if you are picking a spot and if you are shooting over all of them ,then aim like your trying to shoot under them.It works for me most of the time.
As many others have said you are shooting at the whole deer. You are probably attempting to monitor the reaction of the deer as you you draw, do not bother. If the deer catches you drawing you will know it. If it it does not then you will already be completely focused on your spot.
Just as you do in your practice, pick your spot and make your draw without looking at anything else. Once you hit your anchor release the arrow. Do not lift your head to watch the arrow as it will appear in the spot that you are already focused on.
My 2 cents,
You might be more concerned with making a bad shot which will cause you to make a bad shot. If you do all you can to ensure a clean kill and are confident that you can make a shot, that will provide you with some solice if you make a wounding shot. Not to say you will not feel bad, but think, anything can and usually does happen.
Okay, thanks for all the input.
I think that not picking a spot is probebly a very valid idea and I will focuse on this. I have heard it a thousand times, but I guess it can be kind of hard in action at times.
I am not shooting from an elevated stand, but the terrain does have alot of up and down which may affect the shot.
Like I said, the help is really appreciated. Probebly needed a little confidence boost more than anything else. Juniper Bow
P.S. The broadhead/arrow/bow setup has been tuned and shoots exactly where I want on a target.
In moments of tension we unconsciously raise our head to see better, thus we align the tip of the arrow and shoot high. Keep your head down, in a war you stay alive longer that way, you also shoot better.
You don't need to 'shoot at' every animal, try sitting and watching a few come in, imagine shooting them dead by picking a spot and going through the shot process in your mind, it's a lot different than looking at pictures or a target, the animal is moving and alert. Don't raise your bow but do the mind thing a few times to develop what Ferret was talking about, a controlled, deliberate tension, then your shot will be totally focussed on the spot and really intended to kill the animal.It is a different thing to targets, you do actually want to kill it for real.
Keep going you can do it!
chrisg
Pick a spot and f o l l o w t h r u !
Good luck and have fun!
ALL Excellent Advice, and You Couldnt Ask for ANY Better People to Ask for Info either!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: That is one of my Personal Hang-Ups, "The Killing Part".
I would be too busy Admiring the Critter to Kill it! You'll have that I guess. :rolleyes:
DONT EVER GIVE UP!! Especially if its Something You Seem to be Very Passionate about!! :archer: :goldtooth:
Are your misses all over the place? In other words, are you missing left and right - or up and down..... or randomly?
If your misses are random and right, left, up, down... all over the place then concentration is the likely culprit if you can otherwise hit a tennis ball sized target regularly at your practice bale.
If the shots are right or left, are you hitting your armguard, plucking the string, etc.?
If the shots are consistenly low, are you dropping your arm as you shoot to "peek" at the arrow?
If the shots are consistently high, have you been releasing before you hit full draw and before you fully come down on the target?
If your misses are both high AND low, or even mostly low or mostly high, I have to ask how heavy your arrows are and what weight bow you are drawing. The "heavy arrow obsession" we've seen over recent years has caused people who can shoot very precisely in their backyard to have mysterious high and low misses at unmarked range targets. If you shoot very heavy arrows (more than 9 grains per pound, in my opinion) and aren't particularly good at judging yardage, you can expect high and low misses. Shooting some 3D targets set up by someone else in a woodland setting will tell you how well you do in those sitautions.
Missing 9 straight deer completely, worrying about the first hit being a bad hit is a very legitimate concern, so I don't recommend going back out and doing what you've been doing because we know what to expect from that.
So, I would recommend analyzing the situation and trying to find out what you're doing wrong and fixing it. One way to fix it is to correct the shooting problem causing you the misses and the other way to fix it is, as mentioned by someone earlier, to reconsider your effective hunting range because if you cleanly missed 9 in a row, you are definitely outside your EFFECTIVE range, by it's very definition.
I'll steer clear of the ethical considerations because it's your hunt and YOUR ethical considerations that matter in regard to this, not mine.
One other thing you might consider. While concentrating on the spot you want to hit do not let yourself become so concerned with how the deer is going to react that you allow your focus to move from the spot you want to hit to their eyes. I have caught myself doing this at times and I must make myself re-focus. Don't look at their eyes. Just look at the spot you want to hit, keep your head down, and release. If your are busted during the draw just continue and stay focused. Don't allow your vision to move to their eyes.
Louis
Juniper Bow,
I have one question that should help to nail down exactly what is happening.
When you shoot at a deer and miss, do you see the arrow in flight?
-Sharps
If I don`t pick a spot, my arrow will sail harmlessly over their back.
Its been said before. You must train yourself to shoot to kill. You are not trying to hit a deer.
You are trying to hit a spot on a deer.
Your heart SHOULD be pounding. You SHOULD be melting down. Now all you need to do is learn to shoot while you are at system overload. :scared:
Alot of great tips here! On Monday I cleanly missed a WT buck that I had stalked from a 1/2 mile away in open stubble. I was SO relieved when I knew the shot went wide; I would FAR rather miss cleanly than track a wounded deer! (I didn't pick a spot.)
BTW, ho wmuch stump-shooting do you do? That helps me the most.
Papa Bull, most misses have been high and low (I can think of one exception off the top of my head). I am shooting about 9.3 grains per lb. out of my 43lb.@27.5in. hickory long bow. It does have a pretty slow cast (no access to a chrono just comparing to some other long bows I have seen/shot).
Sharpster, I can recall seeing the arrow in flight for a few shots, but usually I was looking at the deer and didn't really see the arrow.
Allan Hundeby, I do shoot stumps quite a bit and hunt small game. During the hunt I will occasionally pull out a stumping/small game arrow and shoot for a while.
Based on some advice given earlier I passed on a few shots yesterday, just watched (which is neat too). I am going to revise my "effective" range from 20 yards to more like 10-15 in case that is the problem and will see if I can go out for a little more stumping (the closest I can get to shooting deer without shooting deer) to help nail down the problem.
There is only one weekend of bow season left here in MT, but there are also some late season bow hunts. Thanks for all the input, Juniper Bow
I like to practice picking a spot. I'll let my dog out in the back yard to do her business and just watch her. Imagine she's a deer. Watch her body angle. When would you take the shot. Pick a hair behind the front shoulder. Wait for the front leg to step forward. Now. It really helps to mentally go through the process. The dog looks at me kind of funny when I let her back in. ;) I think I've mentally killed that dog a hundred times in the last couple of months. :D
Bill
"Sharpster, I can recall seeing the arrow in flight for a few shots, but usually I was looking at the deer and didn't really see the arrow".
There it is in a nutshell. If your not seeing the arrow in flight it means that your bow was not pointed where you were looking.
When you are target shooting or stumping, the small target size naturally forces you to "aim small". A deer is a much larger target than you are used to shooting at so when you shoot at a deer YOU have to force yourself to "aim small".
Forget about shooting at the deer and shoot at a small specific spot on that deer.
You'll get it. If you can shoot tennis balls, there's no reason you can't hit a deer's lungs.
-Sharps
I wish I could hit tennis balls at 20 yrds. Next time you see a deer imagine a tennis ball on his shoulder or close to the shoulder and then see what happens. m2c. Gilbert