I was moving my deer target around for challenging shots and came up with this one. Would you take this shot? Close range shot, fairly high tree stand. Not trying to start an argument. Just a debate.
Tedd
(http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p714/tas0323/Mobile%20Uploads/E4F1E256-B82E-4F07-8D21-50E279CF6A1C_zpszfv7nihv.jpg)
Probably wait as he's bound to give a better shot regardless of where he goes next coupled with the fact there isn't a whole lot to block the shot.
I'd pass on that one for sure. I won't take a shot that doesn't look like a sure thing. Even then, things can sometimes change before the arrow gets there.
Bob
Aiming at the seam. Seems like a path to the vitals. BW PCH 57@31 Gold Tip .340 stock insert with 250 gr point. (http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p714/tas0323/Mobile%20Uploads/86D2FEFD-1E38-4C08-A889-DB52B2485EE1_zpsvnl7g14z.jpg)
Nope. Upper leg bone and shoulder blade block just about everything that's vital. Angle is steep enough to cause the arrow to skim the chest or side. Maybe your arrow finds a clear way in, maybe it doesn't. If the critter coils at all at the shot, it's a scapula hit. May be anyway.
I aint that good bro
(http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p714/tas0323/Mobile%20Uploads/771BB892-9FA0-42C9-8F60-59AE526AA964_zpstjddwv5q.jpg)
(http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p714/tas0323/Mobile%20Uploads/51632005-DF2C-46F4-9F35-5A4E305C6489_zpswznq2ved.jpg)
(http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p714/tas0323/Mobile%20Uploads/E7639371-1A28-4EF4-BBD5-3AE2BEB08DBB_zpsyulgzhlr.jpg)
Hard to tell where your arrows are impacting. Half of that large white area we see from above is the other side of the animal. Just for the heck of it, show us a pix of those arrows from a horizontal perspective.
The vitals section is in upside down...or backwards. It was an assembled floor model, it came that way and I just never fixed it.
dead deer. I probably would wait for him to move off a little too
OK, you read my mind. To my way of thinking, you've hit the scapula with every arrow. If not, or if you get through it, it's a dead critter. I wouldn't chance it, myself.
Just not a good shot for me due to the shoulder.
NO!!!!!!!!!!
No!
Good shooting, but I agree with everyone so far, to much bone, you'll catch one lung, maybe the back of the other on an angle like that. More than likely you'll go through the diaphragm and probably plug up thelat bottom hole. For me.... I'd wait it out just my opinion
I killed a buck last fall in a very similar position. He was just angled toward my right instead of left as in your set up. I watched him go down within sight. My arrow missed the scapula and got both lungs due to the slight across the body angle.
I would agree to wait for a little bit better angle than you are showing here, although it is probably a doable shot.
Looks like the best case would be a single lung hit...I'd have to pass for sure...I don't like any shot that is quartering toward me...BeauJ
I would definitely pass.
No way !
I wouldn't take that shot, I would let him walk and see if he gave me a shot I was comfortable with.
I'll try another shot scenerio tomorrow and post it.
I don';t need to kill a deer bad enough to ever take that shot unless it is in a survival situation. In that case I would take any shot with even a slight possibility of a kill or a cripple I could track down. I have seen the ridge on a scapula stop arrows right there. Of course on that shot you probably only get one shot and not three good ones. What happens on that shot , movement at all of the deer. imperfection for any reason on your part and you have a wounded animal that can go miles.
So No.
God bless, Steve
Yes with a rifle or shotgun with slug;-) Otherwise with a bow I'd wait a bit
Nope!
I'm not taking it, either. Foam doesn't have bone and heavy stuff to shoot thru, but that shot on a deer does and. Even if you manage to get thru the heavy stuff into the vitals, an exit hole is unlikely and the blood trail will be poor at best. I've lost a few deer and I don't like it; it's not worth it to me to take that shot.
Again, not trying to argue. Just discuss... I did figure most of you would say no, don't shoot. And this is not a shot I want to take but one I have been presented with way too often recently. Certainly we can pick up any bow hunting magazine currently on the rack and find a writer telling us this is a bad shot. I'd like to know what criteria are you basing your response on. Have you taken this shot? Was it with a tuned setup and quality traditional broad heads?
No.
No. Those are in shoulder blade.
No, not at that angle.
Not with a bow. Cant win in that situation
I'm making my response on experience of over 50 years of bowhunting, What I have personally experienced and what I have seen. I don't need a writer to tell me what or what not to take. Anyway it would not matter what someone else says about how many deer that they have killed with that shot. I would not take it.
God bless, Steve
Tedd: As I explained, I wouldn't take that shot because the top leg bone and scapula are protecting almost all the vital area. Your shots, IMO all would strike the scapula, particularly if the deer reacted just a small amount to your shot.
I haven't taken a shot like that, though I've certainly had opportunity to do so, but over more than 50 years of hunting, I have hit a few deer in the scapula, usually shooting a 55-60# bow, well tuned wood arrows and 4-blade Zwickey deltas, once with an aluminum arrow and replaceable blade 4-blade broad head. Shooting from above out of a tree stand, not once did my arrow make it through the scapula. It's just a low percentage shot.
Sure a heavy bow, arrow and broad head might plow right through the leg bone or scapula, particularly on a small deer, say 120-160# or less, but that's not the way to bet IMO.
Is it possible to kill a deer with a sharp broadhead and a perfectly placed shot (and a lot of luck) from that angle? Sure. But in 99% of situations, I would wait. As i think most people would with a stickbow.
One more observation. If you've been faced with this shot a lot, maybe there's something in the way you set up (re the most likely direction the critter is expected to come from) that you might be able to change to get a different angle as the critter passes by. In your pix, for example, I'd set up perpendicular to the trail, not tangential to it.
I'm confident my 640 grain grizzly tipped arrows traveling at 190 fps are capable of killing from that angle, but I have no reason to take chances. Let him take a few more steps then shoot. We are bowhunting, not spraying automatic rifle fire to keep the veil cong's heads down. Be judicious with your shot choices.
Same shot, you can see the entrance & the exit in the white belly hair
(http://www.angeloimages.com/Images/hunting/2013-11-15_buck_1_640.jpg)
He didn't slow down long enough for a lot of debate
Wait! With a trail that worn he is bound to come on by.
"Same shot" then how did you hit him on the right side? Lol; just kidding around, good shot!
no! no!! and no!!!
unless I'm shooting at a lifeless 3D target. but not a live deer.... NO.
No , can't get a good double lung .
Ryan , Following in my mind the path of your shot. Looks like you may have caught an artery or the top of the heart. But if not then one lung. Do you know what it got? Anyway great shot and one not many could make at that angle.
God bless, Steve
I told myself I wouldn't take that shot again, that deer was hard to find. No more quartering to shots :knothead: One lung he went a little over a 1/4 mile and bedded, found him the next morning. Sometimes your lucky but it's best not to push your luck.
NO
No, low percentage shot. Have seen a deer opened up with a glancing shot that opened the side but it was a loooong trail to find her. Would wait for a better angle-like quartering away or close to broadside myself.
Good shooting and if that's where the arrow impacts? ''DEAD DEER''. As said before, blood trail will likely be challenging!
Now, my pre-shot prep would've been aiming lower and at the nearest front leg. More than likely, a deer in this position will spin to his right going back the direction he approached at the shot. Not a given, just MO. I would try to place the arrow to possibly take the back of a lung or the kidneys, depending on how much the animal reacts to the shot. A shot like this will be very lethal w/ a big multi blade head. I may get flamed but if I feel it's right, I'm sending my 160gr Snuffer to do this job!
Nope. For all the reason previously mentioned. I rarely set stands that require me to be high. Just don't like the shot angle even on broadside targets.
Since you Didn't specify hunting or not hunting situation.....
Yes I would take that shot on a 3d Target.
I would never even consider it on a real animal.
Easy - No way! I'm waiting until he gives me a better shot.
No for me. Thats a one lung shot.
I'll wait for the shot to get better.
No.
Like others have said, definitely a low percentage shot with not much room for error and virtually sure it won't create a good blood trail. The high angle of the shot bothers me more than the position of the deer.
Even if you get to the vitals it will be a hard recovery IMO, so I wouldn't chance it.
No I wouldn't take it. A compound or cross gun shooter could if they had fixed blade BHs...
You have to take a whitetails possible reaction to the shot into consideration as well, even a shot that close a deer can react very quickly or not hardly at all.
Not a chance and why? I don't care if it's a spike or a booner I have taught my boys to be hunters first not shooters. My largest B/C buck stood like that for 5 minutes at 15yds looking around total relaxed had no idea I was in his world. Never ever crossed my mind to try a shot even though it was the largest set of antlers I have ever seen that close.
He finally grunted walked right up broadside at 8yds and I sent a arrow thru him into the dirt, if he would have walked away not giving me a shot it still would have been a great hunt. It's not worth the chance of losing a animal or the meat just to get the horns. IMHO
Kicked my own brother off my best spot for taking that shot with a CP, and any hunter that takes that shot with a bow and dosent have enough control to wait for the right angle is NOT welcome on my hunting spots. With a gun no problem!
Tracy
Wouldn't. Only a stationary target. Too much could happen from release to impact with a real deer. Not that stuff couldn't happen with a broadside shot but much more leeway as far as that type is concerned. No shot is foolproof so tend to take those that offer forgiveness for a less than perfect shot placement.
Not willing to chance hitting that shoulder at that angle...waiting for a better shot.
Not at a real deer. There are plenty of obstructions located right there. Might blow thru them, prolly won't. Wait a minute and he will turn and give you a better shot.
ChuckC
I wouldn't take that shot, just my preference. Good shooting though.
I shoot the 3d but not a live deer.
Coyotes and crows would appreciate that shot. If its not clean I let them walk.
I have taken that shot twice, or similar anyway. First time on a very nice eight pt. He went on a full death run across a bean field and died in about fifteen seconds. Second time on a fat sister but out of a different tree. Pretty much same result only shorter death run. Both kills with 160gr. Snuffer. Yes I would and prolly will take that shot again. Gary.
No on the shot.....as mentioned above the chance of one lung is too high. You think a Whitetail is tough to find on one lung, try an Elk.
Funny thing is...it is easy for folks to say no behind a computer screen. It take discipline and experience to hold out for a better shot in real time. And from my experiences there is not a lot of that out there.
Depending on how big this deer was and bordering on ethics in each mans mind? I'd bet a lot would take the shot or not? Then some would shoot for the spine as well knowing that the shoulder is right there to the left if broken form and arrow went left.
What one would or would not do remains to be seen in a real life situation, things do change you know.
Its certainly not an easy shot for anyone and a marginal shot its a chance to take.
Not really sure what I would do if the situation presented itself. Prob. wait for him to turn but this is all speculation.
I would say at that angle it would be risky. My guess would be likely one lung if you got by the shoulder blade without deflection. Most likely will get some deflection though.
That's a great group though.
I have taken it once and had a clean quick kill. However, now that I know more about deer anatomy, I doubt I would take it again. Actually, none of my elevated stands are high enough to present that shot now.
So there is an obvious shortage of discipline and experience on this website? Sounds like something the anti hunter crowd would like to hear on one of their websites, think before you post because that was a real poke in the eye to me and all the others who said we would wait for the ethical shot.
Nope. If I needed meat that bad I'd go to the grocery store. The animal deserves better than a poke n' hope.
I would most likely pass on that shot. Too risky for me
Never would take that one :nono:
:deadhorse:
I'd pass. Looks like if you did happen to miss the scapula, it would be one lung at best and a long tracking job.
I have taken that shot, back when I shot a compound and KNEW I could slip that broadhead just barely past the shoulder blade. It will kill them fairly quickly, but you will almost certainly have a poor blood trail, since that arrow has to exit out the guts. That means you get a high entrance (little blood) combined with a plugged up exit (little blood); bad combination.
The deer I hunt would catch you trying to draw. So I let them either walk by our turn to a more favorable position.
Nope!!!!!!
Bisch
It looks like my arrows are right on the worst spot. Moving the hit closer to the neck might be a slight improvement.
(http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p714/tas0323/FBA4B849-499E-4C29-9F1E-C57926EFCBE0_zpshrwoldbn.jpg)
Once upon a time that was my PREFERRED shot on deer. Bone never stopped my arrows and I took out a leg while getting the good stuff. I shot 75-80# bows with 850-1000 gr. arrows and there wasn't a bone big enough in that area of a deer to stop them. It has been many years since I've taken that shot simply because I no longer feel I NEED to. That being said, with the set-up you said you have I wouldn't even consider it...not enough punch there.
NO!!!!
Too risky.
Bad shot. Just because you can hit an immobile foam target does not mean you can do the same with a real live deer. A perfect arrow will go through the vitals. Are you really that good that your arrow will hit exactly where it needs to be and not be off a few inches?
No dice!
Nope
Not likely
No, but not for the reason you think. I'm afraid of heights and don't hunt from tree stands. :)
Tom
Another scenario. The deer is just inside the corn. He is completely unaware. You are on a ground hunting seat just 8 yards away. 1 corn stalk is perfectly aligned with his heart. The set up is a carbon arrow with 250 gr 3 blade VPA. Total arrow weight 645 gr. Recurve bow 57@31. It's dead calm and you have not yet drawn the bow. (http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p714/tas0323/8C7B5D90-6F99-4C0E-8314-573476E816AB_zpsuirkg1rk.jpg)
I don't know if I would take the corn shot or not just impressed with how high it is considering your wet cool summer!
I would not take that shot with my longbow.
Tom
My first shot wasn't great. I stopped at the gym on the way home from work to lift and that makes it hard to shoot well.
The next two were right in there.
I would take this shot for sure.
(http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p714/tas0323/EAEE66C0-A6E5-4450-9738-2BD616C9B028_zps0d8nrj65.jpg)
(http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p714/tas0323/0C3281E9-D911-4D42-A1B2-9014224F99BC_zpsdj4h4osd.jpg)
ignore the vitals on the target. The insert has multiple sides.
Also I have only moved it carefully a few times and already the legs fall off if you look at it wrong. Not impressed with it. The horns fall off when you shoot it.
You would either be labeled a hero or a zero, more likely the second in a live situation.
Is it possible yes, is it worth in maybe, but I'd have to pass and hope for a better shot or another deer.
Scenario 3. You are seated at 20 yards from the deer. he is quartering away from you. The sun is bad.
(http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p714/tas0323/A8A61541-2165-443E-A90C-159A65817FB8_zpstotyjk5k.jpg)
Fun training aids. Go one step further. The tree line belongs to your neighbor who feeds the deer and does not allow hunting. BTW, the buck has a 200" rack. Do you shoot ?
ChuckC
I'm not going to able to shoot well tonight after working out at Golds. I could see the vitals clearly when I drew and anchored. Quatering away is nice!
(http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p714/tas0323/05944BE7-9D34-4A9E-8BCC-113131789965_zpsuwkntqiu.jpg)
QuoteOriginally posted by JD Page 1965:
So there is an obvious shortage of discipline and experience on this website? Sounds like something the anti hunter crowd would like to hear on one of their websites, think before you post because that was a real poke in the eye to me and all the others who said we would wait for the ethical shot.
I know exactly what I said....you looked into it deeper than intended and became offended
Last scenario for tonight. Damn legs keep collapsing on my deer target!
Again, on your ground hunting stool. It's a mountain buck, he is wandering on an oak flat eating acorns, no deer trail to set up on. He feeds closer then sees something he doesn't like. Facing you.
(http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p714/tas0323/75C76DDB-BF45-4196-897A-3134A565FA83_zpsdmy6m2nq.jpg)
20 paces. I'm pretty sure he would whirl at the shot if he is already alert.
(http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p714/tas0323/132EEC11-F950-46EA-8067-0712B0865D5D_zps5ryudyxf.jpg)
With the exception of possibly the second to last I'd hold off on a deer. I do, and would enjoy shooting these scenarios at 3-D shoots
Yea, fun stuff with 3d but I'd wait on a broad side type shot. The corn stalk shot yes, I had a shot similar to that one on last years mature buck and subconsciously trying too hard to miss the tree made me hit too far back I think.
Great shooting by the way on that last shot! And good for you going to the gym, I notice it has a heavy effect on my shooting too but gotta do it.
I think I'd pass on the corn shot or wait for a step where it was clear between two stalks, the bad sun I believe I could deal with but would really depend on how bad it was the last one would be a no go I don't like them looking at me hahaha, great training aid though, with I had a back yard where I could run through these scenarios my self.
Anette,
I am close enough to town that I can hear the carnival tonight. There are a few deer around but also a lot of roads.
I usually hunt in Northern PA. Where there are few deer but no people.
QuoteOriginally posted by Tedd:
ignore the vitals on the target. The insert has multiple sides.
Also I have only moved it carefully a few times and already the legs fall off if you look at it wrong. Not impressed with it. The horns fall off when you shoot it.
Hey Ted, My wife bought that same target for me for X-mas a couple years ago. I too don't care for the assembly, but it really holds up well to broad heads ......until you cut the back strap holding it together.....
Good news is that the Glendale company sent me a replacement free of charge after writing them.
On the shot ethics thing.... i'm surprised no one even considered the chest shot on the tree stand shot... straight up the leg, and an inch left would take the heart out.... But... i gotta say that honestly.... i think i'd wait for a better angle myself...
The corn shot i wouldn't hesitate a moment on.
#4 no, #3 yes, Corn shot yes.
I have passed on the exact same corn shot but now I feel confident at 8 yards enough to take the shot.
The sun shot, I wouldn't really know until I was in the situation. I practice shooting looking into the sun often as thats the position of the sun when I get out of work on my range.
I learned to never take frontal shots. I have seen them work great for people but I have also seen some horror stories as well.
Perhaps I am far too picky with taking shots and thats why I am not killing deer,but I have no regrets either.
This is the target I use indoors (tile floor very little moving around - sliding on metal stand). It holds up well there. My first came apart quick when I took it outside for a spin though.
I think these are interesting scenarios. I'd pass on all of them. I've gone on enough 1/2 day or more tracking jobs for myself, friends, and relatives over the years on perfectly situated deer. The recovery tracking must be done but I loathe fouling up a hunting area tracking a deer so long and far.
The heaviest deer of my life (265# on state scales) I shot at 7 yards frontal. Hit the pocket between shoulder and neck where I was aiming. This was 1981. Deer was dead in 55 yards. It could have gone all wrong and I vowed to never do it again.
In the early 1970's with a Bear B-Mag I took a shot down through a very lightly limbed dogwood tree. Somehow I hit a spindly little limb, deflected the arrow, and aforementioned several hour, fruitless tracking job resulted.
I go for gimmees these days.
On the corn shot, I would shoot if I can see a clear opening to the vitals. The sun shot, no, as glare really bothers me. I just can't focus looking into the sun. I would not take the straight on shot.
Are you looking for people to validate taking bad or very questionable shots? What absurd shot are you coming up with next? Not playing your game any longer.
I don't mind this thread. It is likely someone who hasn't much experience or been faced with some of these shots yet, might learn from the experienced posts to pass such shots.
Sure, I've passed a few shots on a couple of great deer that didn't get better and the deer left my life forever. I prefer my memory of the deer walking on, to one where I made a bad decision that resulted in a poor hit, and a lost deer.
The arrows shot into the targets are interesting follow-up to the shot. For sure on a 3D range I'd take the hypothetical shot decision. There is nothing at risk except an arrow. However, when a living, breathing, animal is on the receiving end things change a lot. For most (not all) bowhunters accuracy is less on the real thing vs targets because of emotional state of the hunter and the very real possibility the animal might "adjust" its position.
Unless you have arrowed enough animals no telling what you would really do. Stationary 3D targets don't get it done. There good for the game of archery but certainly not killing because live animals move and do many things inexperience don't know about yet. You can either be a student of experience or be a student of others telling you. You do with a higher percentage shot placement. Also if you been on enough dead end trails you learned by experience not the got to get him scenarios some fall pray to from inexperience.
Respect for the animal comes into play that is gained by experience alone.
Shooting 3D is one thing you don't have to consider lost or wound with an animal you might.
Been at it for 37 years. I have a blood tracking dog.
Just adding data.
All things about shooting deer with a bow are interesting to me.
Aha, the access to a blood tracking dog adds an entire different "layer" to this thread.
I definitely won't get into that except to say that having a strong Plan B might greatly impact an archer's shot decisions.
Man I'm seeing deer everywhere and ain't released an arrow yet! Lol. Good thread, I have enjoyed watching it and putting myself in these situations mentally.
One of my concerns, and an issue with this kinda thread, is the newbie.
Many, maybe most of us have a fair amount of experience and we have our opinions on what is a good, doable, ethical ( our own ethics) shot. This is normally based upon experience.
Problem is, folks with little or no experience are reading this as well. They download this as experience and we grow issues.
We had similar threads in the past, some getting quite heated in fact.
There are a ton of ways to kill a critter, some are very fast, some are very forgiving. Heck, I just read an article (gun hunter) where he aims at a spot just in front of the hind legs and below the spine. Without getting into the why's, he has vast experience and is a ( hopefully anyway) crack shot.
But man, some newbie, hearing that this is an acceptable shot to TRY for, is a bad thing waiting to happen. Most folks STILL don't really know the anatomy of a deer, so that sure doesn't help the situation.
Yup, a good shot, a bunch of luck, and a willing deer, and lots of things are possible. I tend to miss out on at least the last one of those three. Judging by the threads we get in the fall asking for guidance because they can't find that deer they just shot, we need to teach control and not espouse the various "other shots" that sure can kill deer, or not.
I will also say this. . . yes, put yourself into those shots. Think about them now, not under pressure of the moment. Think what YOU accept as a reasonable, deadly, forgiving shot (one with a bit of room for error) and train yourself to wait for it.
ChuckC
QuoteOriginally posted by Cyclic-Rivers:
I have passed on the exact same corn shot but now I feel confident at 8 yards enough to take the shot.
The sun shot, I wouldn't really know until I was in the situation. I practice shooting looking into the sun often as thats the position of the sun when I get out of work on my range.
I learned to never take frontal shots. I have seen them work great for people but I have also seen some horror stories as well.
Perhaps I am far too picky with taking shots and thats why I am not killing deer,but I have no regrets either.
Nope, Charlie stick with what your doing bud these shots are terrible examples of the shots that hunters are taking now a days because of what they see on TV. Or the think we'll I have a tracking dog so I can take that iffy shot and maybe get away with it, if not it was a learning exsperiance! :dunno:
3D is great practice but it is not hunting.
Tracy
I missed the sun shot and frontal shot scenario...
I think these would both depend on the tail and ear position of the deer.... I use both of them for a barometer on a regular basis.... i never drop a string on a fully alert deer with it's tail up and ears forward regardless of its position..... I've seen em jump the string to many times
I think the overwhelming reaction of most here is not to take these shots even if you can do it on a target. So, I think the newbie is well served.
QuoteOriginally posted by Bowwild:
I think the overwhelming reaction of most here is not to take these shots even if you can do it on a target. So, I think the newbie is well served.
That's a good point. I wonder if anybody else sees it this way.
I would not take any of the shots. I've only killed two,but waited until they got perfectly broadside.
No. I Only hunt on ground.
And would not take it from there either.
The corn shot and the sun shot are the only ones I would take. The tracking dog has nothing to do with my shot selection choice. I'm just saying I have a tracking dog. Honestly my dog is mostly used for other peoples deer. And I don't enjoy doing that, unless it is a friend or family. I sometimes use her on my own blood trails just for practice. I only ever had one long trail of my own deer that I used her on. She was a pup then. 12 yrs ago.
I used her on a deer I shot in the rain 2 years ago. I would have found the deer within an hour. The dog found it in maybe 3-4 minutes.
I've stopped taking quartering toward me shots.
It's good to put ourselves in these scenarios! They do happen and critical thinking isnt always present in the situation.
I would shoot all of the last 3. Can't kill'em if you don't shoot. I also would want my arrows to impact much lower than what you show when shooting at a foam deer. I would think all of your arrows would impact high or miss high when the deer reacts to the shot.
Overbo:I would shoot all of the last 3. Can't kill'em if you don't shoot.
Ditto. Its important to know when to shoot and do it or you are not a successful hunter.
When guiding my biggest beef was hunters that missed the best opportunities and then did not get another chance.
God bless, Steve
No on 1st pic.....twich...glance....or sobbed shoulder blade...that is a no shot period for me.....VERY LOW percentage.
YES on corn shot .....no problem repositioning for a clear shot through a bigger home just by leaning forward or back.
QuoteOriginally posted by RLA:
Same shot, you can see the entrance & the exit in the white belly hair
(http://www.angeloimages.com/Images/hunting/2013-11-15_buck_1_640.jpg)
not to be argumentative.... but studying the pictures of yours and the target .....your shot placement is much further back.....the target pictures are all shoulder blade......nice camo shirt by the way :goldtooth:
I can't answer on number 3 I'd have to be there and evaluate real time.....absolutely not on number 4.
thanks for the thread Tedd gave me some hunting time without leaving the house.....nice
When I was 16 years old on my first deer hunt (archery) a fellow 20 years my senior emptied his quiver at a deer more than 90 yards away.
What he said to me was just put in writing on one of the posts here. I knew that fellow was wrong then and 45 years later I believe the philosophy to still be wrong. Of course decomposers have to eat too I reckon.
Exactly Sixby,
I don't look for reason not to shoot. I look to shoot. Look, I don't run thru the woods flinging arrows at every deer I see but I will at squirrels and think this practice has made me a better killer.
I can see trying to be too politically correct here (as if to satisfy antis)... I've seen perfect broadside and quartering away shots that were off by inches and resulted in game unrecovered... often to be taken later in the season and in good health.
By all means, we should take what we determine to be ethical shots... but I make no apologies for being a hunter and our decisions are just that... our decisions, often made under intense and exciting times.
Very thought provoking thread. Sorry if this offends... that is not my intent.
I personally would not take this shot.
QuoteOriginally posted by Michael Arnette:
It's good to put ourselves in these scenarios! They do happen and critical thinking isnt always present in the situation.
I agree 100% with this statement! I have enjoyed this thread and the friendly banter it has brought with it. I'm ready for hunting season to get here!!
I concur with the wisdom of discussing these questions, the why's and how's, so we can be armed with more information when the occasion arises. One reason I would not take the quartering-on shot from the tree stand is I've never had a deer suddenly whirl and run while I was sitting still that high up in a stand..they keep walking and will present a better shot that doesn't implicate the shoulder bones. I also like the op including distances..8 yards away from a deer a row or 2 into standing corn is a world of difference from 25 yards away. The deer on the property line is always a tough choice and over the years has pushed my blinds farther and farther from the edge of my hunting property, which is a tough concession because some of my best spots have been along fence lines , for obvious reasons. While I may not take those shots, I hunted with old timers who had excellent arguments for a high percentage shot placement from every angle, based on a thorough understanding of the anatomy of the prey.
RLA - Did you borrow my bow???!!!
(http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p714/tas0323/Image%201_zpsdjhl5qup.jpg)
No , Wrong angle , must be angling away or broadside .
Mostly I shot my 3-4 foam deer all to pcs this summer using square on double lung shots. To mix it up recently I did some of the frontal and sharp 1/4 away shots. Interesting. I feel like out to 18 yards I can do the job with a 1/4 to shot. My bow this year is 62lb at 30.5". AD trad tapered shaft with a 250 gr grizzly single bevel. 650 gr total arrow wt. That has some bone splitting qualities.
If I was in a slump with less than my best shooting I wouldn't try it.
I'll probably take some of these shots for fun tomorrow and try to take some photos. Sunday morning the bow gets loaded into the pickup to go to Wyoming. I'll catch up to it via plane on tuesday.
QuoteOriginally posted by Lazy J:
QuoteOriginally posted by Michael Arnette:
It's good to put ourselves in these scenarios! They do happen and critical thinking isnt always present in the situation.
I agree 100% with this statement! I have enjoyed this thread and the friendly banter it has brought with it. I'm ready for hunting season to get here!! [/b]
X2
I think the pictures and shot possibilities are interesting. But the banter is much more valuable to me. I'm a guy who has hunted all his life and killed a ton of small game with a trad bow, but I've been largely unsuccessful with deer. This is due to me having very little time to devote to deer hunting... so, listening in while everyone discusses these shots is very educational.
All those arrows are in the scapula...not one i would take. Too much bone to punch thru.
All those arrows are in the scapula...not one i would take. Too much bone to punch thru. Good shootong though...nice group!
(http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p714/tas0323/Mobile%20Uploads/FD00C721-434E-404E-9F46-6E53E9B60EC0_zpsqnykhflz.jpg)
Threads such as this are very valuable, especially to newer hunters. It gives points to consider from more experienced archers. This may assist a newbie when he first encounters such a situation. For us more experienced hunters, it reminds us to carefully reconsider the things we already know. At a 3D shoot, I don't like to see shot set ups that represent extreme situations, because, if we pull it off on foam, we begin to think we can always do it on the hunt. A tough, but makeable shot, is good training, but extremes may ingrain bad habits. I like this thread for presenting these considerations.
Sam you are right. We have to be a bit careful. There are a thousand ways to kill a deer, from almost any angle. it has been done all ways.
There are, however, certain things that tend... tend... to be more certain or create larger or more reachable or even at times more responsible targets, for a variety of reasons.
I have no doubt that a proven archer / hunter, with much experience can pull off shots that a newer less experienced person should not be trying.
We need to remember that folks with a lot of experience will likely not be influenced by this post, they do what they know they can do, but newer folks are very influenced by posts like this.
They learn and they get experience and then they expand from there. We really should help them have good experiences.
ChuckC
Wait
No I'll let them walk rather than take a shot like that.