Hey guys, I am getting ready to make up a set of woodies to use at Denton hill in a month. I have not had much experience with wood arrows, but I have made up quite a few carbons.
I have 65-70# surewoods which I plan to shoot out of my 55#@28" super K drawn to 29". I'm trying for a 30" arrow with 125-160 point weight.
Anyhow, What is the recommended arrow sealer?
I can see there is gasket lacquer that is used with the gasket speed dip system from 3 Rivers.
I also found Fletch-Lac dip sealer which would work with the Fletch-Lac Platinum glue that I like.
I have also seen recommendations for simply using wipe on poly.
I'm sure there are other sealers out there I am missing as well.
So all you wood arrow experts, what do you recommend?
I would like to make up a really pretty set of arrows that I can take to Denton Hill and loose or break. :laughing: Cheers, SS.
I've used Tru-Oil, water based poly and for my more primitive arrows I use pitch varnish. All with good results.
I've used just about all of them at one time or another. Daly's ProFin is a favorite on this site but can be an expensive investment because you probably will have to have it shipped to you. It is tough, though, and is resistant to target burn. Another favorite is the Massey Finish which is a mixture of acetone and epoxy. It is also very tough but can be messy to apply.
I went through a period of using either spar urethane or spar varnish but switched to just plain old polyurethane after I had a batch of arrows where the sealer wouldn't harden properly. I also prefer the oil based finishes as opposed to the water based finishes.
I like to dip my shafts and let the excess run off as opposed to wiping the sealer on. I think I get a better coat this way but that's just me.
Darren
Three wiped on coats of spar urethane thinned down 2/1 urethane to mineral spirits with 0000 steel wool in between coats. Dries fast and hard. Lasts forever.
I like Minwax Helmsman spar urethane thinned 50/50 with mineral spirits as well but I dip the shafts and hang on a cord with clothes pins to dry. About three coats normally with 0000 steel wool as Valkyrie suggested. I like the gloss spar urethane.
What do you guys use for fletch glue? I tried Spar on my last arrows and liked how durable it was but my feathers would not stick at all with either fletch-tite platinum or goattuff archery glue. Thanks, SS
Duco,Sanders NPV but I'm becoming a quick fan of Weldwood Contact Cement.Clean shaft,apply glue to
fletch out of a small Murine bottle,fletch momentarily..separate a few minutes..then replace.Slow but no waste and clean lines.
That's the only method of luck I've had aluminum lately,and pretty sure it would work for wood.
Check first to make sure cement/sealer is compatable though.
Mike
As recommended by my friend and arrow smith , Dan Novotny.
Polycrylic, I dip them. It is water based.
I use a good super glue for fleatching.
I mix this with low odor mineral spirits 50/50 for a tough finish that doesn't target burn. I usually dip three times with 0000 steel wool rubdown in between. A real slick glossy and durable finish. If you don't want glossy, just rub down after final dip.
Duco for gluing on fletching.
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I use Duco cement (green and yellow tube) to glue feathers on the spar urethane finish and never have an issue with adhesion.
Gasket lacquer will pull easiest from 3D targets but poly or true-oil will give a more durable finish of the sealers I have tried. Duco glue with both.
I use watco danish oil finish or tru-oil for my hunting arrows. Gasket lacquer for my target arrows. Duco works great on these finishes.
I used gasket lacquer for quite a few years until it suddenly developed cracking problems. Now I hear 3R has a "new and improved" gasket lacquer but I'm not sure if I trust them.
I'll be keeping an eye on this thread for ideas as I'd really like to get back to making arrows.
Guy
Minwax poly or spar urethane thinned with mineral spirits work the best of the readilly available finishes. I like Pro Fin the best of any...but can be tough to get for a reasonable price.
I'll second the oil base gloss polyurethane for a good shaft finish. I thin it 3 or 4 to 1 with a good paint thinner and dip. You can also wipe it on with great results and no need for a dip tube. This coats are the secret to a tough finish. The Minwax shown above is very good.
I built a soak tube for my shafts a while back. Left them to soak in Watco Danish oil for a week, turned out pretty darn good. I capped them with some red tremclad and fletched with superglue.
I have used the Massey finish in the past, darn tough but messy and I don't like working with acetone so much.
Grey - I'm on my second quart of the reformulated GL. Haven't had any cracking/crazing. The first arrows I dipped with them were done early February, and have been shot heavily ever since. I'm a fan.
QuoteOriginally posted by macbow:
[QB] As recommended by my friend and arrow smith , Dan Novotny.
Polycrylic, I dip them. It is water based.
this stuff is great,,all I use now!
I use min wax wipe on water based poly. Have also used the oil based wipe on but since my cresting is all done with water based acrylics the water poly is now the go to. Duco or platinum, shichever is on sale! :)
I use an epoxy finish. Most durable finish I've used. Cheap, easy, and no problem getting everything you need from a Wal Mart or hardware store...including glue and cresting paint.
LBR...could you elaborate a bit on the product you use and technique? Never considered epoxy. Sounds like a good idea.
Bill-
Here is the recipe. My buddy Tom K. adapted the Jay Massey bow finish to arrows.
1) First thing I do is stain shafts (I usually use aniline dyes from Gray Ghost Archery). I only stain up to where the stain and crown meet.
2) After stain dries, sand off any raised grain, then stain again if necessary to achieve desired color.
3) If I don't have any epoxy formula made up, I use the following procedure for that.
*I purchase Devcon 2-ton epoxy and a can of acetone from Wal-Mart in the paint section. I use a 4 ounce baby food jar to squirt the entire contents of epoxy into. I then completely mix the 2 epoxy parts until clear. I then add 1 ounce of acetone (1/2 jar) and stir until the epoxy appears to have dissolved and looks only like acetone remains. I then fill the jar with acetone and stir again for a few seconds.*
4) Applied one coat of epoxy as described next.
*Always wear chemical resistant gloves, I use the blue Nitrate cloves that the tools trucks (Snap-On, Mac) sell to local automotive and
diesel garage mechanics. I use small cotton rags from t-shirts. Hold arrow at nock or point end, make one long continuous swipe from end to end. Then rotate shaft 180 degrees and do again. (Do not attempt to double wipe on same side, the rag will stick to the first coat).*
5) After epoxy dries, check for raised grain. Sand if needed.
6) Apply second coat of epoxy.
7) I then spray the crowns on, (I usually use Krylon enamels, and usually 2 coats are needed).
8) After crown dries, apply cresting lines (Testors and Odds-n-Ends).
9) After crown and cresting are COMPLETELY dry, spray or brush the crown and crestings with a thin coat of Min Wax Water Based Polyacyrlic (blue can). I prefer to brush mine on.
10) After poly dries, apply second coat only if spraying on poly. Brushing usually only requires one coat.
11) After letting poly dry an hour, apply first coat of epoxy over entire shaft. Make sure to check wiping rag for paint residue after first arrow to insure that acetone is not attacking cresting and crown. If paint is being attacked, crest the arrow if needed, and give another coat of poly over all arrows.
12) If all is ok, I will usually put on 4 to 6 coats of epoxy, make sure to smooth out finish very lightly with 0000 steel wool between all coats (do not steel wool last coat unless you prefer a satin finish).
13) I then set nocks using Duco cement, and mount feathers with either Bohning Fletch Tape or regular super glue (not the gel stuff). I prefer the tape. This makes for easy feather repair if needed.
Anyone here familiar with or ever try a product called PENOFIN? I'm intrigued by it as its sold locally.
LBR...thanks for taking the time to explain your recipe and technique. Those must be some durable arrows! Will definitely give it a try...I have 2 dozen shafts coming from Surewood in a few days. This sounds promising.
Bill-
Minwax stain, 3-5 coats wipe on poly with steel wool between coats, crown with Rustoleum in rattle can if you desire. Throw on another coat of poly if you decided to crown. Nock with Duco, feathers with fletchtape with duco on the ends. On hot days like we've been havin I can easily do three coats of poly in a day.
No problem Slim. I actually have it saved as a document on my computer-the directions are straight from Tom.
We've lost arrows that slid up under the grass to be found after the feathers were totally gone and the point rusted off. The shaft was fine--re-fletch and put a new point on and shoot it.
I use something simple as described by Biatholonman. Take surewood shafts and steel wool them. Stain 2x with minwax stain. Then minwax wipe on poly 4-5 coats with steel wool after each coat. I used boning fletch tape and fletchtite on ends of feather. So far no issues. Arrows have been going strong for months now.
My mistake. I just checked. I used Duco cement for the end of the feathers not fletchtite. Nock and point with Duco as well.
LBR, will the epoxy stay liquid in the jar mixed with the acetone, or do you need to mix up a new batch of finish for each coat?
Thanks
It stays liquid for a good while. How long, I'm not sure. I only mix one batch at a time. I figure you could add a little acetone along the way and keep it liquid longer.
2 coats of Zarr satin polyurethane exterior will make your arrows look and feel like glass, very tough and will last forever . Stir don't shake the can, let stand until all bubbles are gone, dip let stand overnight between coats, use Duco glue .
epoxy,
nothing..
nothing!
NOTHING!!! comes close to it!
if you're at denton the fella who really pushed this method of sealing shafts will be there!
Dalys profin is NOT resistant to target burn! Not even close! Though it doesn't burn as bad as say waterbase! It burns. In foam like a block its not bad at all. in harder targets is where you'll start to see what does or does not burn. Fiberboard will really show you what burns and what doesn't.
I do use dalys and have for the last 15 or so years now. I really like it. Its simple, though slow to dry. Needs to be shaken regularly or the drying agents seem to settle out. You'll know it when it happens to you!
All Gasket lacquer from Egyptian lacquer (giving up trade info here) will crack! It is NOT waterproof!
I passed this info to Troy years back, along with the source as it was passed onto me buy another arrow builder.
The Iowa 'boys' were using a different brand of 'gasket lacquer'. I never did figure out who that was.
The folks at Egyptian were willing to work out a more waterproof recipe. I ended up giving up the arrow business. It was fun but took the fun out of my hobby. You could buy it cheap in 5 gallon cans or 55 gallon drums. They could never get the 5 gallon can here on time so I never paid the shipping or hazmat chargers! Thanks you fedex!
Chad (lbr) Toms on his way up here Thursday..it only took 17 years to get him to come...and I had 0 to do with it! LOL His old man is dragging him up. Looks like I have a few days of guiding ahead ;)
Hey you said glue, what were you using on epoxy? Tom was using tape. Hows the super glue hold up compared to Toms tape?
I had tape issues...learned fletch tape is not compatible with all finishes. Screwed up and didn't catch it out east chasing deer. Came home got into a pile of caribou...making a stalk I had 2 of 5 arrows with SOME (not all) feathers on the shaft. It was beyond cold....plumb stupid weather to be hunting but we did it anyways. I sat in the cab hand fletching with a tub of duco I had in my bag from the trip out east....the bou were gone by the time I got my act together. never touched it since, and never will!