Hey all,
I'm shooting a Hill style bow, a 66 inch Dave Johnson, and am needing to know how to set it up for my shooting.
I am told that it is recommended to have a 5 3/4 brace height and a nock point that is 3/16 above center.
I just went out and shot some like that and it is totally not working for me.
The nock point is definitely going to have to go higher as my arrows are a mix of aluminum and carbon and they are flying all over the place. I have to find a happy medium here.
As for the brace height, I am getting the HADES slapped out of my wrist. I don't like it a bit. I have never had to use an arm guard before and I don't want to start now. I thought that 5 3/4 sounded awfully low, but who am I to pass judgement on these Hill style bows?
So...can you all give me some advice on it?
Thank you kindly.
Nalajr
#1~~~Buy an armguard, no way around that one...
#2~~~Watch all of these videos on Youtube by John Schulz and follow his instructions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4kIpsoi6oY
#3~~~Shooting a Hill Style bow has a specific form-style.
Are your arrows even close to the right spine?? I prefer a higher brace, like 6 1/2 to 7. I shoot 3 under so my nock is also higher. Don't get discouraged......
On ASL's (Hill style) I like 6.5-6.75" BH
Also, a lot say that they require a specific style to shoot them well, I don agree.
I shoot mine the same as my R/d and ILF rig. Use your style, tune it up to your preference
6 3/4 brace height, give or take a little, nock point 5/8-inch above the shelf (nock under the nock point) . Of course, you'll want correctly spined arrows
I shoot all of my Hill and Hill style longbows at 6 3/4 to 7" brace height. No way could I shoot as low as you are trying to shoot. I set my nock point at 5/8" above square. I shoot split finger style and with that set up I can shoot wood, carbon, aluminum with no issues. I match wood spine to the draw weight I am pulling but cut my arrows an inch longer than my draw.
ASL is only bow I have HAD to use an armgard. I have a natural bend in my bow arm and still get stung enough to want one. The grip is very, very important also.
I shoot a 7inch brace height here and a slight bend at the elbow so far I only get slapped if I forget and grip the bow wrong.
My arrows are right. I am shooting this one the same way I shot the 2 pass around Hill Style bows that the thread posted here is about. One was his English bow and the other a Sherwood. Both great bows.
The brace height on this one is much lower than those were. I've never shot a bow that had a 5 3/4 inch brace height and it seemed awfully low. I think that is part of the reason I am getting string slap. On the 2 pass around bows I only had it slap me maybe 4 or 5 times and then no more.
I know I'll end up getting an armguard though.
Gonna change the brace height and nock height and see how it shoots tomorrow.
Thanks all.
Nalajr
I had a fellow a couple of years ago come over with carbons with the exact same complaints. He used the Stu Miller guide for reflex/deflex. He argued with me about the arm guard. His nocks were tight. He was twisting both hands during the draw. He should have had a shorter draw than the one he was trying and failing to reach. He was bridging his grip. I showed him my Hill dvds and my Schulz dvd. Got some arrows that would match his proper Hill draw and bow, gave him an arm guard and shooting glove, started from scratch and after about fifty shot, his arrows were flying. Two weeks later we crossed paths, he was back to using the stiff carbons, he had welts on his arm,he was back to using his cheap tab and not getting his arrows to fly. He has since gone back to the dark side, but has not returned the arm guard, shooting glove and arrows that I gave him. The same thing happened with the last two that I completely outfitted, they went back to only using rifles and chasing deer with pickups. I am done giving away my stuff.
Oh I am not going anywhere. When I was shooting those bows from Alan Boice from Liberty Bows I was shooting right where I looked for the first time ever. I want that again and I'll get there too. I might have to do it with an armguard, but that's OK.
I'm going to see how the new brace height of 6 3/4 inches works along with the higher nock point of 5/8. I am hoping that I can get all my arrows to fly good with this bow, but I realize I might have to just shoot 1 type of arrow with it and get the best flight I can and stay with that.
I want to try wood arrows too. I've never had a wood arrow.
Nalajr
I shoot longbows that I make myself for the most part but I also have a Schulz made Hill and a J.D.Berry "Vixen". All do great with a brace height of 5 7/8" to 6".
Properly tillered longbows seldom (if ever) need more than a 3/16" nock point height.
I've never understood the aversion to armguards that I see these days. Until compounds became popular an armguard was part of EVERYBODY'S kit.
Lots of good advice given already. I shoot a higher brace height than you list. Essentially, I adjust brace height till I get good arrow flight combined with reasonable quietness. When I find that balance, I leave brace height right there, whatever the measurement may be. Also, as mentioned, wear an arm guard. Yeah, you're gonna get slapped every once in a while. I shoot with a slight arm bend as is often recommended by the experts. Don't hesitate to tinker around with these things. Sometimes, your individual style may call for adjustments that differ a bit from what many others say. Just use common sense. But if you are WAY out of the ordinary, you may have some form issues.
Charlie, how close to center do you cut your long bows ?
ChuckC
You need shoot the HILL out of that bow until you find the sweet spot!
Don't worry with number until if feels right, then see what they are in the end.
SHOOT! SHOOT! SHOOT! and then SHOOT some more!
Most of my asl bh's are set between 6 3/8 and 6 1/2. The nocking point is set at 3/16 for nocking above the nocking point.
Keeping my bow arm slightly bent avoids the elbow pain I'd get when shooting recurves & r/d bows straight arm and allows me to shoot most of the time without an arm guard.The only time I need an arm guard is when I'm wearing my coat.
What gpp are you shooting? I find that if its a bit low I get more string slap and recoil. As well as a bit more noise.
Nala,
Dave Johnson's bows are made to shoot a little lower brace height. The other ASLs I own or have owned shoot best at or over 1/2 higher brace height than the Johnsons. I've owned 4 of Dave Johnson's bows and still have 2.
Hang in there with it. Nothing wrong with arm guards and they are great for keeping bulky sleeves out of the way in cooler weather, and when making tough shots.
For what it's worth I shoot Dan Toelke Super Ds with brace height running 6 3/4"-7 1/4", nock height 9/16". I have never shot anything through mine except fairly heavy wood in the 11 or 12 to 1 range. I never use an arm guard and don't need one. They are smooth, dead in the hand stable, exceptionally quick and ridiculously quiet bows.
I just don't like them in hot weather Charlie.
UPDATE.....
I changed the BH to 6 3/4" and the nock height to 5/8 and went out to try it this evening. It shot 100% better. NO wrist slap at all, not even a single time. I'm liking that.
All the different arrows shot great except 3 aluminum 1916 LITE arrows I got from somewhere. They were not flying so well and were going RIGHT each time I shot them.
So, I am going to keep tinkering and get it where it shoots best. It probably would be best to use 1 type and kind of shaft with this bow and forget using a sack full of different shafts and save that for my Morrison 17 inch ILF aluminum shafted recurve that has an elevated rest. All my shafts fly great in that bow.
Thanks all.
Nalajr
I here you bud. I've been using one so long I'm just used to having it on my arm regardless. :thumbsup:
Chuck... they are cut about 3/16 out of center.
I am assuming that 5/8" has the arrow below the nocking point, if you are shooting split, you may have a heavy ring finger. That would need to be adjusted if you shoot a fatter diameter wood shaft. I cannot help but wonder what the upper and lower riser fadeout to the string would be on that bow if all else is quite normal. The higher BH could be needed if the arrows were very stiff or if the grip is getting torqued, which is a possibility if the string never makes arm contact in a more normal BH. John Schulz suggested 1/16" up on his nocking point, nocking the arrow over the nocking point, Ekin said about 1/8". On bows that have the 1/8" less measurement on the bottom limb fadeout to string measurement, the nocking point works out to be just shy 1/8" above level for me with parallel shafts and right at 1/8" for tapered shafts with old style Mercury arrow nocks.
Some bows can have slower cast with too much BH. John Schulz said that it could be as much as 20 fps, we experimented with this some with one of my Schulz bows. We found that increasing the brace to 1" over what John suggested with Acme cedar arrows that flew good at the suggested brace, did not lose 20 fps second like John said was possible, it lost 8 to 10 fps. On another bow that had a suggested range of 6&3/4" to 7", Primal Styk, going from the top of the suggested range to the bottom, then to going under the range made very little difference. It obviously has something to do with how the limb loads and unleashes its energy or the difference between a B55 string to a modern string.
Thanks Charlie.
ChuckC
I too shoot a Dave Johnson longbow quite regularly. It came with a B-50 string but I am using a fast flight now. I am pulling 55# at 29". It likes 2018's cut 30.5". I measured the brace height and it is set at 5 3/4". This is about what Dave recommended. I always find what works for me as there are so many intangibles like type of string, spine of arrow, form, etc. I have no problem with wrist slap and do not use an armguard. Again how you are holding the bow is an intangible here. I believe the woodies I shoot are spines 65-68# and again are cut 30.5". Use 145 to 175 up front, just whatever works best. Don't know if there is a lighter in the hand longbow than a Dave Johnson. Hope you get it worked out!
I have two Dave Johnsons which I had the BH set at 6 1/2". Both shot fine, but after seeing that the recommended BH is about 5 3/4", I decided to give it a try. Both shoot just fine with the lower BH, and I can still shoot them without an arm guard. I did adjust one of them up to 5 7/8" for the one with the smaller grip (see next paragraph.)
One thing to note is that both of these bows have relatively deep grips at 2 1/8" and 2 1/4". If they had a 1 3/4" deep grip like one of my NM Classics, the BH at the current settings would measure out at 6 1/4". This probably at least partially explains the recommended variation in BH's between different Hill Style bows, though I don't know if this holds true for reverse handle bows.
I echo the ones above with at least a 6.5" brace up to 7". Mine ASL is set to just over 6.5 and I do not get arm slap. You'll have to work on your grip and form for that. With properly spined arrows, 10 gpp IMHO, you will have a great time shooting that bow.
I set mine at 6.25 inch with 3/8 nock point. I moved the nock up some and down some and the bow seems not to matter much shooting Gold Tip Traditional 400 at 57lbs. I have been told early on to always were an arm-guard because it is possible to have an arrow break on release and stick in your arm. That would hurt.
I saw a fiberglass arrow go once, it must have been crushed. The guy was wearing an arm guard, he did catch some fiberglass into the back of his thumb. There were tears.