When the deer is facing you and you can put one in its chest. I have never done it ive always passed on the oppurtunity, but i was wondering what you guys think about taking the shot. I know its a lethal shot, just wonderin your opnion...Curtis
ABSOLUTELY NOT-NEVER-DON'T DO IT-DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!
ANY BOWHUNTER WHO TAKES THAT SHOT IS UNETHICAL AND WILL WOUND GAME!
I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT ANYONE EVEN ASKED THE QUESTION HERE!!!!
PARDON ME WHILE I GO PUKE!
TOO SHORT
Not me,I'm with the 8th Dwarf on this one!
Way to much armor up front for good penetration, not to mention the kill zone would be very small at that angle. I would never take that kind of shot.
Paul,
I just returned from a Colorado elk hunt in which my buddy took that shot and made it largely because he said he was inspired by you doing it in your video "Big Bulls are Easy" (think that's the name of it). Was he mistaken?
He doubble-lunged the bull and it went 35 yards and died on it's feet. It was with a 70lb compond at 35 yards.
Whoa, Too Short, I think he was honestly asking a question. Not trying to pull anybody's string.
Dan
I won't even if it was a world record deer it just isn't worth it.
And that goes for a butt shot too, No way!!!
Tracy
Well. Like Crocodile Dundee said...."you can eat it, but it tastes like s&*()( ! Sure, it can be done, and some do it every year. It is not, in my opinion, the best of choices, but neither is straight down thru the spine, but that gets done a bunch too. To each his own.
If you choose to do this, please check out a reliable picture or skeleton of a deer. Then you can see what you are actually faced with so you can make an informed choice.
ChuckC
I learned long ago that the front-on shot is not one to be taken. It was through others making the mistake, and newer archers asking the question that I learned this. Thus, I will never take the shot. Thank you for aasking the question, Curtis, instead of blundering into a hard lesson learned. Other new archers will read this and know the answer as well.
Killdeer
Ya ok Too Short after you get done puking read that i said " I HAVE NEVER DONE IT I HAVE ALWAYS PASSED..." Maybe that wasnt clear enough for you, and i never meant to imply i was thinking about taking the shot i was just throwing the topic out there for responses...Curtis
The window that an arrow can pass through in a frontal situtation is way to small to be considered a high percentage shot. While it can be done and I know a person or two that has done it, everyone of them will tell you not to do it, nor do I think they will ever try it again. That bag is just way to small for me to want to try and get all my marbles in it.
Even if you get through all the stuff on the front end of the deer, the arrow would likely penetrate the gut. I don't know about most of you, but I'd rather not do that. Since I usually hunt from the trees, it's pretty unlikely I'll be faced with that shot anyway. If I were on the ground, I'd pass on it. Around here, we have lots of deer. I figure one will offer a better shot than that.
OK Mr. Brunner get a bucket.
Well I'm going to go against the grain here. I do not feel the shot is unethical.Under very specific circumstances it is a very lethal shot. We as a community claim so many things are unethical. Shooting beyond 20 yards. Shooting at game from any angle but broadside or quartering away. Hunting over bait; and on and on and on.
Yet when someone writes an article in TBM about a hog hunt and says that after the shot he paced it off as 41 yards, and says;" I guess I really wanted it" and we just say, "Great Shot!"
Or Dr.Ed Ashby shoots aninals from all manner of angles to test broadheads and we just say, "Thanks for the info!"
I have personally kiiled deer with a head on shot. The first deer I ever killed as a matter of fact at the tender age of 14. I've seen other deer and elk killed with the shot. In fact if you learn how to do it, that is to say where to put the arrow and at what distance it is high percentage at it is an incredibly quick killing shot. I will not "teach" the wheres and why fors here. I'll just sat that if you have the skill, the knowledge and the mettle to pull it off it will work everytime. I know I'm no one famous and I haven't written books or made videos or killed X number of P&Y or B&C animals. I have however been an archer for 43 years and a bowhunter for 32 years. Which means my opinion is not based on my own experience. Ethics are how you behave when no one but God is watching and you've actually forgotten he is.
I bowhunted for 4 years before I got a shot. The first shot I got was head-on, I hit him right where he would knot his tie. He went 30 yards. It took me around 5 hours to find him. I never even thought about looking for blood, just looked for the deer. I wouldn't do it now. It was 1970 and I didn't know what I was doing. Hap
There is not a such thing as a stupid question.
I have done things in the past that I would not do now.
I have learned from mistakes of my own and of others.
Anyone who has not taken or made a bad shot has not bowhunted much.
Too Short I recall one time when you and I agreed that we both remembered an article by Chuck Adams where he commented that he did and would take head shots. And I mean "HEAD SHOTS."
But I also remember an article that you wrote some time back that you had an elk almost on top of you and that "your hair covered computer did the math" and at that distance you took the front on shot. Take care. Mike.
:bigsmyl:
"He doubble-lunged the bull and it went 35 yards "
ok now .......... double lunged with a head on shot??????? :knothead:
made the mistake with a compound..drilled him in the chest and he bled like a stuck pig... never found him...a gun hunter finished him 2 weeks later...i learned my lesson..never again!..... only with a gun.... broadside and quartering away with a bow...
C2,
It is easy to see this one could get a little warm.
I have a friend who before taking and becoming a IBEP Instructor was the "Long Shot King", and he was this with a recurve. This guy could make gun hunters look bad, with a recurve.
Well the short story of this is, after taking Bowhunter Education, he still realized that he could do it, but he also realized that it increased the chances of things going south in a hurry.
Quit honestly, that is why we don't, or shouldn't do it. Its not because we can't or it can't be done, its because the chances of things going bad are greatly increased, and when it goes bad, we as bowhunters as a whole look bad. Remember its the 80% that don't hunt, but are not necessarily against hunting, untill they see something bad, are the one who will keep us hunting.
Years ago I shot a spike horn during gun season. He had lost one spike and had gangrene in his face and neck. Some bow hunter took that head-on shot, hit him right between the peepers and that little guy got sick and probably wouldn't have made it through the winter. Shame to see them suffer even when you make the shot that you think you can!
No offense tim roberts but this is like the arguements for political correctness.
We, as a group, don't do enough to promote ourselves and our past time in the eyes of the none hunting members of our society. The anti hunting monority speand millions and gets people out there to protest and write letters to senators and reps and govenors and mayors and just anyone they can think of. We just make up rules for ourselves so we won't "look bad" to them. Just the fact that we kill things is all they have to see to see us in a bad light.
I think it's too little too late. I said there were tight constraints on when I would take the shot, just like any shot on any animal, Those tight constraints on exactly when I would take the shot are ALL the ethics I need. My knowing that it's only when EVERYTHING is perfect for the shot,that I take it. So let's say it is a 1% of the time shot. That 1% situation has little likelihood of happening but if it does I will be ready to take advantahe of it. By the way you shoot to sever the aorta and vena cava at the top of the heart. A 1.5 inch margin of error. Like I said 1%. I guess all I am saying is that I don't believe it's a never take shot.
On a perfectly healthy big game animal, I'd never consider it. I rank head-on as a notch below straight down between the shoulder blades -- not for me. When trying to finish off a wounded animal though, all bets are off.
Deer and big hogs broadside only , Turkeys any way I can get them and small pigs the same. If I get to hunt western or northern critters they would be broadside. but then again the small pigs...
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w39/rcswampbucket/bloodypig.jpg)
wow i was suprised to see too shorts answer, a bit full on!
let me be sure I'm clear I am not talking about head shots with trad bows. I'm talking about hitting a apricot sized target from the ground at ten yards or less with a bow over 50# in draw weight and an arrow at least 12 grains per pound And a big heavy Snuffer or Landshark up front so sharp it would make aged cheddar shed tears of envy.
I believe that 1 percent is so small of a chance to get that i wouldnt even attempt to judge weather it was it or the other 99% it isnt a very good judge of character to take a front on shot to many things can go the wrong way to quickly.
too short I beleieve you have over reacted a little . this guy asked a question for a answer of weather its a good judgement . now why would that make you need to puke? get real my freind and i am not trying to stir up a argument I am just stateing what i believe is why alot of bad situations get started because of over reactions .
Me thinks Paul is just funnin a little.However, not a shot I would take.
Danny
The first deer I ever shot with a bow was dead on at 15 yards.
I already knew I could split a deers brisket with a knife,with ease.
So I shot her straight through the top of the brisket.
The arrow stopped at the fletches and took out both lungs and the liver.
She went about 30 yards and I'd take the same shot again if it's ever presented.
All the cheap insults in the world won't alter the fact that the brisket won't even come close to stopping an arrow.
Fact is I've gotten worse penetration shooting an old boar through the sheild but nobody gets all "ethical" over that.
As we all know, the path to wounded and not recovered animals starts with low percentage shots. Head on is low percentage no matter how you say it.
Consider yourself lucky if you have gotten away with it. If you have never done it when the opportunity presented itself, I applaud you.
"ok now .......... double lunged with a head on shot???????"
The arrow entered to the right of the sternum (elk's left chest side) between the sternum and shoulder and the elk was angled enough that the arrow crossed to the opposite side of the vitals (elks right side). That's how both lungs were hit.
C2,
It seems that far to often in the hunting community we as hunters get a tag, and we feel that we are owed an animal because we bought a tag.
Hypathecal situtation:
You make this shot, someone else comes along and sees this and they try it, and it goes south, The animal lives and is recovered by a gun hunter a few weeks later with an arrow in it. Your actions led to a bad situtation for bowhunting. Now while you didn't force this other person to take the shot, the fact that you did it shored up his confidence into making him think it was an easier shot than it really is.
If it is a shot that you are going to take I guess the responsible thing would be not to talk about it. If you were to talk about it, do so in a manner that would steer others away from doing it themselves.
One last thing, Fred Bear, and others who led the way for us to do this took a lot of shots and made a lot of shots that are considered low percentage shots. Those were the learning days of bowhunting. While we all need to learn lets try to learn from the mistakes and successes of others rather than repeating the mistakes and making it harder for our kids to be bowhunters.
The only time I take head-on shots is on tame P&Y wolves and only with mechanical broadheads from my 35# recurve and only while wearing my super stealthy Scent Lok camo and only at 40 yards or more and that's only because I have sight pins and use a release and hunt only behind a high fence over bait using dogs.
I have taken that shot, and have taken home the deer. There have been many who have lost deer from broad side shots, 1/4 shots, you name it. Any one can make a bad shot. If I think I can put game down quick with my shot, I will take it.
Each hunter has to make decision that he/she can live with. For every shot we take we have to ask ourselves if the reward is worth the risk. No shot is a guarantee, but I just prefer to keep the odds in my favor.
I can't personally justify the risk vs. reward for a front on shot or a head shot. If thats the only shot I have then I'd let the deer walk.
I will only take broadside and quartering away shots; I'll pass on all others. This has caused me to pass on a lot of deer that some others might not have but thats the decision I have made and the one that I am comfortible with.
C2- just so you know Ed Ashby shoots CADAVERS. He doesn't take odd angled shots at live critters.
To set the record straight, I have NEVER taken a front on shot. On the video, ARCHERY ELK, THE DREAM HUNT, I shot a bull in FRONT of the near front leg. The bull was standing on a hill side, quartering towards me. His near front leg was extended all the way back to his rear hoof. I had the entire lung/heart area wide open at about 15 yards. The target area was probably 20 inches long, by 12" up and down. This is the same as waiting for the near leg to go forward to expose more lung area.
TRUST ME...this was NOT a front on shot. I might add that I have never taken this shot before that or since that time. It was an oddity in that it exposed as much rib cage/lung area as a normal broadside shot.
Enough said?
Too Short
I personally have not taken this shot yet, but I'm with C2 on this. I don't believe this is a "never take shot"
Yes this is definitely a very low percentage shot at a mature Whitetail.
I can however imagine a situation in which I would take the shot. Would I take it at a P&Y or B&C? No! But if I was heading down the trail and I came across a fawn coming towards me at 15 yds? Yes! And I'll be happy for that little bit of meat.
I think this shot really depends on the individual and the circumstance. For me, it would be a little fawn in the above described situation. A 5-6 month old fawn is not going anywhere after a 700+ gr arrow passes through its chest.
And yes, I can tone down a wee bit. Play this one by the odds then...
The animal is looking at you. I mean, that animal is WATCHING you! BAD time to release an arrow to begin with, as that animal can move so much faster than your arrow that a miss or a wounding shot is almost guaranteed.
The target size is extremely small. Are you that good, that you can hit an apple EVERY time at 15 yards? How about if the apple moves quickly as you release?
The brisket is NOT easly penetrated!!! Because from the front it is shaped like a triangle pointed TOWARDS you, it is very likely that the arrow will skid on the ribs and go between the brisket and the front leg...a wounded animal that will have some serious problems if the arrow does not exit his body.
My purpose in my original reply to this thread was to SHOCK! I was shocked to see the question asked, but I do tend to forget that new bowhunters are coming up all the time and do not have all the answers. The only stupid question is the one you are afraid to ask! For the record, I have been bowhunting for fifty years as of this fall and I learn something EVERY day!
Now it is true that Smiling Chuckie wrote an entire article about shooting deer in the head...that is in the HEAD! Aye-yii-yii!
Too Short
Paul, thanks this has been an interesting thread to follow.
Why shoot unless you're trying to get BOTH lungs?
I passed on this shot at 12 yards last month at a bull elk. I ate tag soup on that hunt. I caught absolute hell from the boys at camp for passing. I can live with myself for the pass, but if I stick that bull and it turns out bad, I'd eat my own guts for a whole year. Things can go bad when the animal is in perfect position...it certainly will go bad if the angle sucks and there's a sternum in the way!
I'm taking a pass on a front on shot. I've always passed on these shots with archery tackle.
I shot a deer once straight down between the shoulder blades. He got a way. I'll not take that shot again, either.
You do what you think is right, but don't tell me about it or I'm gonna' react like Paul.
This is really a personal decision. I passed on this same shot a few days ago, got chewed out for passing on a "good" shot by my friend. He would have shot, I'll continue to pass on such shots.
Here are some things that do not seem to be refuted:
1) Frontal shots have a smaller target area than broadside.
2) Chances of hitting the guts with this shot are increased.
3) Chances of pass through (additional blood) are decreased.
And here are some things that not everyone may agree with, but are my opinion.
1) The brisket and ribcage is at an angle that will often deflect an arrow (or even bullet for that matter).
2) If an arrow does go into that little hole and travel through the chest it will be a quick, humane death.
I am a begginer, but have been going with experienced hunting buddies who have dealt with this issue (with varying results).
I wouldnt even take the shot with a high powered rifle.
Hello everyone and thanks for your input to the thread (im the one who started it). When i started this thread i didnt mean to imply i was thinking of taking the shot, and as i said i have always passed on it (just because my Dad has always told me to every since i started hunting even with a gun). I am 18 and have been hunting since i was 12 i have killed 27 deer with my bow and countless small game in that time, with no misses or gut shots (lucky, very lucky, so i wouldnt consider my self as a "new" bow hunter as Mr.Brunner said) and although i know the shot is a lethal one, which has been proven by posts from people on here. Obviosly this is a touchy subject. So i am sorry if this has upset any one on this site...Curtis
Also i would like to add to my previous statement i started the thread just to here peoples views and opnions about the shot, negative and positive. Isnt that what this site is about? to learn from others? ask questions? share experinces? please correct me if im wrong...Curtis
C2,
Read Dr. Ashby's articles about shot selection and penetration results, etc. (at top of Pow wow column) He has some really good data. Perhaps you'll change your mind about that shot.
Considering that one lung would be a great outcome on this type of shot, I will pass.
All my BS'ing aside, here's my experience with head on shots. All firearms. 1 rifle load through the spine on a small buck dropped him. One 12 gauge slug through the spine practically flipped another buck. One 12 gauge slug from 10 yards grazed a nice buck's chin as he suddenly dipped his head. The slug was deflected enough to pass only through the shoulder. He took off immediately on 3 legs and the only thing that kept me from a longer tracking job was a lucky running shot through the boiler room.
Seems to me like a lot can happen between the time you decide to shoot and the time the arrow gets to the deer. I like a little more margin of error. I've passed on every frontal shot with a bow.
Your question was fine. There's no reason you shouldn't have asked it, Curtis.
THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH "ETHICS"- it has everything to do with common sense.
To everyone considering this as a shot to take:
If getting game at all costs is what we are here for, why not hunt with a firearm? In other words, if killing that critter is such an absolute must that you would consider a marginal shot opportunity because you HAVE to kill it, why not use guns?
Fawns? Who are you kidding? You shoot fawns enough that you would even bring that into this discussion? How many pictures of dead fawns have we seen on this site? Most people are not shooting fawns..they're talking about mature animals.
A normal big game animal's chest is certainly wide enough that if your chest-on shot arrow doesn't hit within a 3 inch circle, its certainly a good chance you will one lung that critter. Add to that the animal is facing you and can react quicker than your arrow can get to it! I don't know how many one lunged animals you've tracked...but in my life I've had a belly full, and I don't want any more.
Combined with personal hunting(and being in Georgia with 10 to 12 tags per season),our nine year old urban deer hunting program has allowed me to participate in nearly a thousand whitetail tracking jobs...thirty or forty of them have been one lunged, shooting at the side of the animal!
I can tell you that if one of our members took a head on shot, he/she would be on the street so fast their head would spin.
Respect for a living animal is always uppermost in the minds of most hunters I know- and in every hunter I share my camp with. And it shouldn't matter if its a fawn, a yearling, a mature animal, or a world record.
I get a kick out of this delima. On the good old boy videos you have Stan Potts. I watched one video where a huge buck walked by him 3 times at less than 15 yds. and he never let go of an arrow as he held at full draw making noises that sounded like a bad bowel movement. Afte the deer left he said "Folks I passed on that walking deer because a game animal is to important to take risky shots on." I would have drilled that deer the first go by since I like a walking shot. Two season later he had a 200+" buck come in and turn head on and he whispers, "I'm taking him" and then shoots him. He turns towards the camera and say, "Folks I never would have taken a shot like that but he was too big to let walk!" So I guess size sometimes dictates reason???
Longbowman, thats exactly why I no longer buy/watch most hunting videos.
A hunters sense of ethics and reason should apply to ANY animal taken regardless of size, rack, score, etc.
Curtis,I see no reason you should appologize.You had a question and you asked it.I dont know anyone who has ever taken this shot nor have I but I too was wondering what the results would be.Im glad you asked,thanks.And John Scifres,,,I like the sound of you wolf hunting preserve, would you take me? Ill bring Britney and the Hiltons and well air it on the Spike channel.
Izzy
I think it was a good question and I for one am glad he asked it. If you don't ask, you don't learn.
Unfortunately this one sure brought out a rash of strong comments! LOL Problem is the ethics police showed up in force too and a few should be downright ashamed of themselves. :smileystooges:
Instead of just giving an honest answer to the question, some decided that it was better to crucify the one asking it. :knothead: Sure doesn't do much for the free flow of ideas on this site now does it?. :rolleyes:
Perhaps a better way would be to explain the reasons for your opinions rather hitting the one who asked the question over the head with them.
Just a thought.........
Being as short as Too short is, he would have to aim up in such an angle that the arrow would come out the animal a$$ and fly wrecklessly into the air so I see his point.
But us average height guys have taken and made plenty such shots with sucess. Plus makes for an easier cleaning job when everything falls out. :D
I personally did this ONCE. Never, ever, ever , will I do it again.I was still shooting a 75# wheely bow. I had a doe coming down the trail right at me I got antsey put the arrow a 30" 2216 or a 2219 dead center of her chest. She took off arrow burried up to the vanes blocking the entry hole. NO Blood what so ever. I looked for hours and never found that deer.
Perfectly spoken, Longbowz.
It depends on the angle of the head on shot, sorry but it does. I shot a nice buck a few years ago and I was in a ladder about 8ft. up. He put his head down and I put one along his spine and it came out by his sack. Got one lung, diaphram and liver. He went about 30 yards, would I do it again, yup it is a fairly simple shot. If I was 3 ft. lower I would not of attempted it. Ethics, are not for us to decide because people are different we will be judged later on. I believe the owner of Rancho Safari's (Cat quivers and such) said he took plenty of shots over 80 yards at animals in his career. He said ya cannot kill'em if ya do not shoot at them and that was in a TBM article, agree or disagree who are we to judge? Shawn
I have taken that shot over the years 3 diffrent times and recovered all 3 deer but I had a very hard time on the recovery and swore to my self I wouldnt take it again after the last one . The first was with a shotgun at 20 yards and the deer ran about 200 yards , the second was with a compound at 15 yards and the arrows hit him dead in the center of the chest . I was on the ground so the arrow went thru his body long ways and came out his hip near his tail , but still the deer ran about 200 yards . The last was with a rifle at about 50 yards and the bullet hit a little left of center so it wound up taking his frount shoulder almost completly off but the deer still ran about 100 yards . That was early in my hunting days so I learned that although it looks like a great shot it is about the worst shot that you could take .
Mike Britt
PS : The only dumb question is the one never asked so dont worry about asking questions .
well, I have taken that shot 2 times, and got the animal both times( with my wheels, Before I made the transition to traditional), I was lucky and will never do it again. The margin of error was to great, I was alot younger then and since then have realized how dumd that was. Take someones advise that has done it, DONT, good luck this season
I dont think his is going to be read, but here goes anyway. I saw this post last night. and was Kind of shocked by Pauls reaction. However through typing...it's kind of hard to judge how people are really speaking. In READING however, seemed that Pauls response could have been worded different. Heres My response:
would I? NO... Have I? YES. I was 18 and I was a compound shooter. I shot a whitetail Head on. I burried the shaft clear down the middle from a tree stand. I can still play it over in my head 17 years later and I'm dumbfounded that I tracked that deer for over a mile through brush and corn, and NEVER FOUND HIM. There was blood till the end, took work to find it. But it was there. Taught me a lesson, and I will never take that shot again.
A few years ago I witnessed a broadside shot at about 25 yards. Just as the arrow was about to make contact, the deer turned to run with the arrow entering the lower neck area head on. All our searching turned up nothing.
Wapiti792...
YOU, SIR, are a REAL bowhunter! Ignore your friends, sleep well, and know that you did the RIGHT thing.
To those of you who missed my third response, read it...I did tone down my original post. Sometimes I swallow most of my leg before I think things through.
Still...the frontal shot is SUCKOID and should not be taken.
Too F. Short
Shawn, with all due respect, I have to disagree with you
I've seen women driving their cars with their knees, putting on makeup. I've seen idiots ride a shopping cart down a ramp with rockets strapped on the side of it. We've all seen fools riding motorcycles with no helmets, or flip flops on their feet.
It doesn't depend-dumb is dumb- the "it's all good" argument doesn't cut it. An arrow kills by bleeding, or creating a pneumothorax to collapse the lungs of an animal, and the only way a bowhunter is connected to his quarry is through a blood trail.
Intentionally shooting an animal frontally is like saying " I don't really need a blood trail" because most of the time the arrow will not exit the animal...and it usually is sticking in the entrance hole, plugging ANY blood letting.
It's kind of like a long shot hand in poker- or playing the last ten bucks in your wallet on Tuesday on lottery tickets. Yeah, you might get lucky...but you are probably going to go hungry till Friday.
The only difference is, in this instance we are talking about an animal's life- and it depends on the choice we are making- take the shot/ don't take the shot. Respect for your quarry demands that you don't take a marginal shot.
If you take that shot, and it blows up in your face, you will relive that shot over and over in your nighmares, believe me.
It is futile to resist ! Give up and be simulated ! Do not start to think for yourself, do not evaluate your situation, it is futile to resist.
Has somebody seen my box, I can't seem to find it. I need to get back to it ! :banghead:
Carl
the thing about judging deer you find dead in the woods - with perhaps an arrow in the head.. well it might not at all reflect the archer or the shot.
This year I had a broadside shot at a whitetail doe at about 6 yards. I had a clean release; but the deer swung its head around so fast I hit it in the head. It took off running left and right and jumping and such; and I lost the blood trail; and lost the deer. Turns out it fell into the river and was downstream and out of sight of where I could legally trespass. I did NOT take a head on shot; I did NOT shoot at the head. It is where the arrow ended up; but it was NOT intentional.
I was once in a treestand and shot at a buck 20 yards away. A broadside shot. That deer flipped when I shot and I hit it on the bottom of its belly and the arrow came out between the shoulder and the backbone; at the top of its back; and buried itself in the ground- the deer broke the broadhead and part of the shaft off in the ground when it took off.
I did not shoot at the bottom of the belly of a deer from a treestand 20 feet up. I did not ever think I could hit a deer on the underside of its belly and have the arrow go through and bury itself in the ground- as it left the deer.
I found that deer pretty close and very dead.
Timing- timing was the key. I did not totally account for timing. I don't know if I could have accounted for timing and the reaction of those two deer.
too shorts description of the shot he took on the elk- sounds totally responsible and logical to me. It could though I guess be considered head on... but there were like SOOO many other things going on; like him recognizing the shot opprotunity and figuring in all the varibles ... and making the shot!
A double lung shot takes a deer down fast; but talk to bear hunters; and they will argue about the total ethics of the 'over the hip' shot - over a broadside shot.
NO- don't take head on shots; but don't take broadside shots at hyper alert deer; and don't take broadside shots at alert deer without allowing for the drop the animal- will or might- take if it drops to run. And don't take 'texas heart shots'unless.. or quarting away shots at the left side of elk...unless.
Hey- best plan is to take the best shot you can and use a sharp broadhead and committ to finding the animal you hit.
I might perhaps take a head on shot- like Paul did -when asked about taking- a head on shot. :) LOL
OK I have decided to list all the conditions that would have to be met for me to consider taking the shot.
1) the deer is completely calm and unaware of my presence.
2) the deer is not looking at me it is either looking to one side or the other or back behind itself.
3) the distance is 15 yards or less
4) the cowlick in the coat is there to mark the spot to put the arrow.Most deer have it but not all.
5)I am shooting my usual mid 60s or heavier bow, a heavy arrow that has been perfectly tuned to the bow and a very sharp broadhead.
6) I feel confident in the shot.
You see I see no differance in taking this shot than taking the long shot and then saying, "I guess I wanted it."
Back when hunting was making meat, and by the way with me that pretty much is what it is now, hunter took shots that you thought police would be even more down on. When I was coming up in bowhunting an old timer told us young guys that the fermoral artery shot in the hip was his favourite shot to take with his longbow. He said it always left an easy to follow short blood trail. Would I take that shot? No because I never could quite figure out from his discription where to put my arrow but I now all three targets of the head on shot. I however only would take a shot at the one I discribed before.
And by the by, Since a deer can turn fast and make a broadside shot a head on shot or a belly up shot, is it not within the realm of possibility that a deer could turn and make a head on shot a perfect broadside.
I'll further say that my reasons for saying I'd take this shot are from personal experience. Of the three deer I have either shot or watched being shot in this way all died very quickly. One dropped dead right now, one took two steps and then just fell over and one reared backwards and fell, got up and made one jump and died. If those were the results any of you saw in your life would you feel differently?
Ray, I was high enough to get an exit hole and I was shooting 65#s at the time. As I said disagree all you want. I have to live with it and could care less what others think. As I said I will be judged by no one. Shawn
This thread has pretty much run it's course...
Well, It doesn't sound like Shawn really took a head on shot, he was up in the air a bit. C2's real experience has taught him the effectiveness of this shot, Too Short's was a front quartering shot not head on (I hope the puke cleaned up easily Paul) and that Ray Hammond, IMHO, nailed it with his first post. :notworthy: Here's to happy hunting and short blood trails...
I agree with you JC. Pretty much everything about this one has been discussed and then some.