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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Junction hunter on October 08, 2007, 01:27:00 PM

Title: Shooting high from the tree.
Post by: Junction hunter on October 08, 2007, 01:27:00 PM: This weekend I took 3 shoots from the tree at deer and was high all three. Over their back.
So, put out a target and shot high again and again and again.
Do others have this problem?
Title: Re: Shooting high from the tree.
Post by: Irish on October 08, 2007, 01:35:00 PM: Pick a spot, bend at the waist - I know, sounds easy. Been there, done that, have the misses to show for it.
Title: Re: Shooting high from the tree.
Post by: trashwood on October 08, 2007, 01:38:00 PM: I shot a field course that had a steep 80 yd down hill. I shot it like it was 70 yds and scored on the target. If the shot were laid out in a right triangle, you would shoot for the distance of the leg on the botton and not the distance of the hypotenuse, I think.

Anyway ya can shoot over pretty easily from a tree stand. from a tree stand I gap if shooting by indirect aiming method. 90% of the time I string walk from a tree stand.

rusty
Title: Re: Shooting high from the tree.
Post by: Lost Arra on October 08, 2007, 01:39:00 PM: I'm not sure about all the physics involved but I think shooting high is a fairly common miss from a treestand.
Best suggestion I received: Practice only from a treestand if you are hunting from treestands.

Good luck!
Sounds like you must be in a good area.
Title: Re: Shooting high from the tree.
Post by: vermonster13 on October 08, 2007, 01:39:00 PM: You also may be judging them as farther away than they actually are. Gravity only affects the arrow for linear distance not vertical. So if a deer is 15 yards from the base of the tree but the distance from where you are up in the tree to the deer is say 18 yards, you need to do as Irish said and have your 15 yard spot in the brain or you'll overshoot.
Title: Re: Shooting high from the tree.
Post by: DRR324 on October 08, 2007, 01:46:00 PM: From a treestand.... AIM LOW- DOWN THEY GO.
Even if bending at the waist, I focus on the lowest spot possible- from say 15 ft up, and inside 10 yards. Have to really concentrate on the lowest visible spot to put the arrow- it will still hit a bit higher.
Title: Re: Shooting high from the tree.
Post by: Big Dave on October 08, 2007, 01:46:00 PM: Trashwood and Vermonster are right
Title: Re: Shooting high from the tree.
Post by: Straitshot on October 08, 2007, 02:06:00 PM: Bend at the waste and force yourself to shoot at the center of the lower half of the chest cavity.
Title: Re: Shooting high from the tree.
Post by: Jason R. Wesbrock on October 08, 2007, 02:07:00 PM: I think it has a lot more to do with form than the Pythagorean theorem (A squared + B squared = C squared). For the purposes to shooting from a treestand on flat ground, A squared is the distance from the deer to the base of the tree, B squared is the hight of the teestand, and C squared is the distance between you and the deer itself.

We all know C squared is the actual distance of the shot, but A squared is the trajectory. So let's assume you're 20 feet up and the deer is 15 yards (45 feet) away.

A squared = 45x45 = 2,025 feet.

B squared = 20x20 = 400 feet

C squared = 2,425 feet

Which means C = 49.24 feet, or 16.4 yards.

That's only a difference of about a yard and a half at 15 yards. When we crunch the numbers for shots out from 20 feet up and 10 yards out, the difference between shot and trajectory is only 2 yards. At 20 yards, the difference is only a yard. I've shot a lot of slow bows over the years -- 140 fps and less -- and I can't see where even shooting 10 yards for 12 yards would cause anything other than a slightly high lung hit on a deer.

If you're taking high angle shots in the mountains, then yes, the Pythagorean theorem can definately come into play. But out of a treestand on level ground? The difference isn't enough to worry about. Concentrate on maintaining consistent form (i.e. bend at the waist) and it's not an issue.
Title: Re: Shooting high from the tree.
Post by: bentpole on October 08, 2007, 02:13:00 PM: All I can say is like everyone else.Pick a SPOT and you have to bend at the waist.
Title: Re: Shooting high from the tree.
Post by: Tom Leemans on October 08, 2007, 02:16:00 PM: Oh dang Jason! I'm not gettin' no 400 feet up in the tree! The deer will smell me anyway after I pee my pants!
:biglaugh:
Title: Re: Shooting high from the tree.
Post by: **DONOTDELETE** on October 08, 2007, 02:18:00 PM: Keep your shoulders, elbow, wrist & arrow inline, just like Terry said in the TradGang DVD...Plus You have to bend at the waist as well.
Title: Re: Shooting high from the tree.
Post by: eagle24 on October 08, 2007, 03:32:00 PM: Like the other posters said, Bend at the waist. There is no substitute for practicing from an elevated stand. If you can practice from a stand some, it will do wonders for your confidence.
Title: Re: Shooting high from the tree.
Post by: TXRED on October 08, 2007, 05:06:00 PM: Jason,ya got any aspirin to go w/that equation? :confused:
Title: Re: Shooting high from the tree.
Post by: Jason R. Wesbrock on October 08, 2007, 07:02:00 PM: Sorry, I hate interjecting math in this stuff, especially since my Mossy Oak slide rule is on back order. :confused:

Long and short of it: bend at the waist and shoot the dang thing. ;)
Title: Re: Shooting high from the tree.
Post by: Charlie Lamb on October 08, 2007, 07:29:00 PM: Try canting the bow a little more than normal. The steeper the angle, the more cant in the bow.
Title: Re: Shooting high from the tree.
Post by: ChuckC on October 08, 2007, 08:08:00 PM: Jason, remember too that you are shooting at a target that is in a vertical plane, not horizontal. A miss of two inches to the side (horizontal might mean quite a bit more miss on that vertical target.
ChuckC
Title: Re: Shooting high from the tree.
Post by: STOBBER on October 08, 2007, 08:35:00 PM: I made the same shot Saturday....lil' doe came straight to me ...stopped...turned broadside at 12paces....shot looked perfect till it flew about 4" over her back. I was about 10 feet up the tree and she neve knew i was there. Not the first time i've done that...i'll learn to shoot low eventually!
Title: Re: Shooting high from the tree.
Post by: Shawn Leonard on October 08, 2007, 09:28:00 PM: It is a fact of life you shoot high shooting down and ya shoot high shooting up hill. it is no different than a rifle, if you shoot at something down hill ya have to hold low onthe animal, if ya put the cross hairs on the center of a deer at 100 yards and the gun is dead on at a 100 and the deer is down hill ya will be high. It has to due with angles and trajectory, even bending at the waist will not make a difference ya have to pick a spot low on the deer as you will shoot above that spot. That is why some compounder invented the pendulum bow sight. They even make range finders that ya can pucnh in the speed of your bow or rifle and it will compute the angle of a down hill or up hill shot and let ya know where to hold. Shawn
Title: Re: Shooting high from the tree.
Post by: Jason R. Wesbrock on October 08, 2007, 10:09:00 PM: Quote
Originally posted by ChuckC:
Jason, remember too that you are shooting at a target that is in a vertical plane, not horizontal. A miss of two inches to the side (horizontal might mean quite a bit more miss on that vertical target.
ChuckC
Chuck,

I guess I'm not understand what you said. The geometry involved in shooting uphill/downhill pertains to verticle impact. Horizontal isn't a factor anymore than it is with any other shot.
Title: Re: Shooting high from the tree.
Post by: southpawshooter on October 08, 2007, 10:09:00 PM: Your form likely is the culprit. Bend at the waist and keep the 'T' in your upper body. Strange things happen when the back and front of your shot are misaligned.
Title: Re: Shooting high from the tree.
Post by: Lost Arra on October 09, 2007, 09:34:00 AM: Practice Practice Practice
From your stand.

All the "computing and adjusting" will come naturally if you are comfortable in your treestand and used to shooting from an elevated position.
Title: Re: Shooting high from the tree.
Post by: eagle24 on October 09, 2007, 12:09:00 PM: Quote
Originally posted by southpawshooter:
Your form likely is the culprit. Bend at the waist and keep the 'T' in your upper body. Strange things happen when the back and front of your shot are misaligned.
:thumbsup: thats the ticket as far as I'm concerned. If you fail to bend at the waist you change your upper body geometry and the sight picture looks different. You will shoot high. The best advice, however, is in the reply right above this one. ;)
Title: Re: Shooting high from the tree.
Post by: Junction hunter on October 09, 2007, 12:50:00 PM: Thanks guys.
Think I'm hunting from the ground this year. First year with a recurve and haven't practiced enough from the tree. Totally lost my confidence. Going to be tough getting that big boy within 18 yards from the ground.
I alway have the compound to fall back on. Had to use it last year because I wasn't ready to hunt with recurve yet. Wondering if I'm ready this year.
Title: Re: Shooting high from the tree.
Post by: DRR324 on October 09, 2007, 03:06:00 PM: No compounds allowed!!! Keep your confidence up by shooting a few GOOD arrows each day. Climb up on your roof and shoot from the peak. I've got my extension ladder against the pole barn and shoot a few every day possible. You can do it with the curve- if you fall back on the wheelie bow, you'll regret it when that good buck comes in at 12 yards and you smoke him. Your mind will instantly think you could have done it with the curve, which you can!!! :
Title: Re: Shooting high from the tree.
Post by: Chortdraw on October 09, 2007, 03:37:00 PM: shoot for the exit wound.
Title: Re: Shooting high from the tree.
Post by: cvarcher on October 09, 2007, 03:56:00 PM: You have forgotten the most important thing--Cant the bow! Try it both ways and then let us know if theres a differance.
Title: Re: Shooting high from the tree.
Post by: Papa Bull on October 09, 2007, 04:47:00 PM: If you shoot an arrow straight up in the air or straight down, it won't matter if your target is 10 feet or 100 yards away; your line of aim will not change because there is no "drop" as we think of it.

If you shoot horizontally, you get the greatest deviation between your line of aim and your target over the shortest distances.

So the closer to straight up or straight down your shot is, the closer you get to zero deviation from your line of aim over any distance. And the closer to horizontal your shot is, the closer you get to maximum deviation from your line of aim over any distance.

In other words. If you're shooting at an angle up or down; aim as though it's closer. The greater the angle, the closer you need to consider it for aiming purposes.

Any projectile traveling any distance will always drop the exact same amount for the same time in flight. So why aim lower than we would expect? Because of the angle of the arrow drop. As mentioned before, if the arrow is shot straight up, it will still "drop" the same amount, it will just drop in the exact same line as the line of aim.
Title: Re: Shooting high from the tree.
Post by: trashwood on October 09, 2007, 05:48:00 PM: that is a very good explaination PB.

rusty
Title: Re: Shooting high from the tree.
Post by: Junction hunter on October 11, 2007, 12:57:00 PM: Thank You so much. Almost grabbed the compound but didn't thanks to the encouragement.
I've been shooting much better from the tree now (at least at the target). Aiming low and bending at the waist. It really is different than the compound.
Thanks DRR324.
Title: Re: Shooting high from the tree.
Post by: ChuckC on October 11, 2007, 10:06:00 PM: Jason, if you shoot at a target, shooting high is above 90 degrees to the target. To the point of impact. Imagine a target plane at 90 degrees to the flight of your arrow just like shooting from the ground. If you are off a bit..oh well. Now take that plane and turn it. like the vertical body of the deer Now if you are off a bit, it can make more inches of difference. If you are short by an inch, the arrow travels down the vertical plane more than an inch before it impacts the vertical plane. Shoot over it and the same thing happens only it hits the deer before traveling that extra inch, or higher.
ChuckC
Title: Re: Shooting high from the tree.
Post by: SOS on October 11, 2007, 10:41:00 PM: Jason,
Make sure you take a couple of practice arrows to your treestand. Take a couple of practice shots before you get down. Will help you learn shooting from the stand, plus help learning bow clearances. Good confidence builder. I'm using a 6 arrow hip quiver this year and actually taking 3 blunts each time...plus, you never know when a armadillo will come by!
Title: Re: Shooting high from the tree.
Post by: Kingstaken on October 11, 2007, 10:53:00 PM: I thought for us laymen the answer is shooting down hill sort-to say, the arrow travels faster making for flatter trajectory, hence shooting over the top of the target.
Title: Re: Shooting high from the tree.
Post by: BobW on October 12, 2007, 03:52:00 PM: Quote
Originally posted by Junction hunter:
It really is different than the compound.
Thanks DRR324.
no it isn't. The mechanics of the "Tee" and bend at the waste are identicle. 6 things to remember.... Form, form, form. Practice, practice, practice.