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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: snowplow on April 03, 2015, 10:08:00 PM
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So I know I dont always pick up on everything immediately, but this ones really getting me...
Why in the world does a three under most always sound louder (even if it's just to the shooter).
It seems to me that your draw hand is directly behind the bow hand (as opposed to being above it like split).
Why oh why is it louder? If it is louder isn't that a sign that it isnt working as slick for whatever reason? What the heck am I missing friends?
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I think it has something to do with the arrow nock being closer to the apex of the draw with split. Imagine the instant you let go of the string. With 3 under, there's 3 fingers worth of slack under the nock, and none above the nock, that has to be taken up before the weight of the bow hits the nock. With split, there's still a little more under the nock than above, but it's more evenly distributed. Just a guess.
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i always wondered the same thing. The first time i tried 3 under i thought I broke my bow.
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Would/does a bow tillered for 3 under reduce this noise? McDave's answer seems pretty on point, I always figured it has to do with the uneven travel of the string above and below the nock.
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I'm with ya knotter. I like the idea of 3 under, but it feels like there is something wrong every time I try it.
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I never shoot 3 under any more...if I lean that way I shoot 2 under which seems quieter on average than 3...if the bow is still too noisy that way I shoot 3 finger split...this year my goal is to develop a solid 2 finger split (Flemish) release...so far for me it is just as quiet as 3 split...with 20 or so bows if I had to know exactly why each performs the way they do I would be spending way too much time trying to understand and not enough time shooting
DDave
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I'm with ya knotter. I like the idea of 3 under, but it feels like there is something wrong every time I try it.
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That might be the additional sound of the angels crying when you use three fingers under.
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That sounds like the most reasonable theory to me stumpkiller.
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Tillering for three under will only change nock point height slightly. NO affect on quietness.
I wish I knew the answer too.
when I'm shooting with back tension and relaxed hand/arm, my bow is quiet as a whisper. When I'm tensed, it twangs.
BigJim
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That sounds like the most reasonable theory to me stumpkiller.
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Good one Stump. :pray:
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I tried to play around with the noise issue also. I have an ILF bow so I can adjust the tiller how I want. Some where about 25 years ago I read "to tiller a bow for 3 under, set the limbs at 0 tiller". That is where I started and while it was quiter it was still noisy to me. I played with it by moving tiller, string silentcers nock point arrow weight etc. OK says I, I do not have the know how to fix the noise issue so I moved on.
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Never had the problem no matter what bow I used, for me it's all about the release as Big Jim says. Most people who shoot split probably have more tension on the string with the finger directly under the arrow anyway, which if you think about it is the same when you shoot 3 under, at least that is how I do it. Maybe if you are shooting 3 Under from check finger pressure you might need to adjust which finger is hold more of the string weight.
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I think Stumpkiller nailed it!
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I also agree with Big Jim. I do think however that you need to be more conscious of the weight distribution on the fingers when shooting 3-under. A lot of shooters put too much weight on the ring finger, stressing the lower limb more and throwing off the timing. Try to maintain 50% on middle finger, 40% on index, and only 10% on ring finger.
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Originally posted by mahantango:
I also agree with Big Jim. I do think however that you need to be more conscious of the weight distribution on the fingers when shooting 3-under. A lot of shooters put too much weight on the ring finger, stressing the lower limb more and throwing off the timing. Try to maintain 50% on middle finger, 40% on index, and only 10% on ring finger.
Yep
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Never had a problem with noise shooting three under. String walking is another story
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For me I have always shot three under I have done some testing for myself with Ipad filming my self shooting my bow. It is louder when I shoot off the tips of my fingers and when I take a deep hook with my fingers and relack my hand my bow a lot more quieter also notes that it I didn't keep my string strait when I made my draw it was loader.
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Sound of fingers brushing the string.
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Originally posted by Stumpkiller:
That might be the additional sound of the angels crying when you use three fingers under.
I'm assuming you're joking by throwing that subtle stone at us that shoot 3 under?
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It has a lot to do of how the bow is tillered. I shoot three under and my tree is setup to replicate where the middle finger of my drawing hand will be on the string. I tiller for equal limb timing, paying no attention to a + tiller. My bows are quiet as a mouse.
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Three fingers under bends the limbs unevenly. So does two finger, but not as much. The uneven torque on the limbs pulls them out of timing, the greater the difference between the pull on the top and bottom limb, the more they're pulled out of time, and the noisier the shot. Inordinately heeling the bow, or conversely gripping it hard and tipping it forward, creates the same type of imbalance and increased noise.
If you shot a trigger and placed it right on the center of the string, and didn't vertically torque the bow with your grip, you'd probably have the quietest set-up possible.
All this being said, Stumpkiller's explanation is hard to resist. :goldtooth:
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Roy could you expand on what you are doing with the tree and limb timing? I'm trying to measure limb timing at full draw and adjust (ILF bows) for perfect timing to get things as quiet as possible.
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I assume a 3/8th high nocking point on my bow string and set my tree up with two black vertical lines on the wall which will replicate where the middle finger of my drawing hand will be on the bow string. The right line is setup for tillering for split finger, the left line is for tillering for three under. As I tiller the bow, I want the trees pull rope to travel straight down whichever line I am using, split or the three under. I also have a pulley mounted on the floor and I slide it to align up with whichever line I am using. When the trees pull rope travels straight down the line, that means the limbs are bending in sync, hence equal limb timing. The pull rope will always drift towards the stronger limb, so I remove wood from the stronger limb and work the bow on the tree till the pull rope travels straight down the line. Equal limb timing makes an awesome quiet, accurate, smooth, fast shooting bow. The bow in the video below has been tillered to 29 inches for a three under shooter and the limbs are timed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTU0h5LDNwU
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Here is a picture of the whole tree setup. The bow is not strung in the picture, I just have the pull rope hanging on the string for the picture.
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/ROY-CHRIS/pulley2_1.png) (http://s47.photobucket.com/user/ROY-CHRIS/media/pulley2_1.png.html)
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Thanks Roy! That gets me going in the right direction :thumbsup:
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Try bare shaft tuning with three under. Also spray or sprinkle the back of the shelf with powder and see where the fletching is hitting.
I suspect that you will need to change the nock point and the arrow may be hitting the back edge of the shelf with three under using your current setting.
I shoot three under and it is no louder than other bows shooting split fingers.
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The bare shaft will likely fly nock high, but the nock could be too high or you are getting a false reading as the nock end is hitting the riser.
Spray the back 9" of the arrow with powder and shoot it to see where it is contacting the rest
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Originally posted by ishoot4thrills:
Originally posted by Stumpkiller:
That might be the additional sound of the angels crying when you use three fingers under.
I'm assuming you're joking by throwing that subtle stone at us that shoot 3 under? [/b]
Funny!!
Great info on this thread!!
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Yes, three under puts the limbs out of time...but adjusting the nock point to it's "new" and proper to the shooters position, will put them back in time.
This too can be altered by the grip. A death grip won't allow the bow to pivot as much so that the limbs can come back in to time.
Set your bow on a tillering board and hook the string wherever you like. If the limbs are pulling unevenly, you can fix this by sliding the string in the hook closer to the tip that is bending the least and you can get the limbs to bend perfectly.
Now change the pivot of the riser down to the heel or back up to the throat and watch what happens to the necessary nock point in order to even out the arch of the limbs. It can still be done, but this should magnify the need for an individual to determine their own proper nock height for each bow.
BigJIm
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ishoot4thrills,
I'm sure Stumpkiller was referring to the angels mourning that soon-to-be dead animal just down the shaft of the 3U shooter, lol! It's one of the reasons I switched to ILF, I can counteract my heavy ring finger by syncing the limbs back up with negative tiller.
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Originally posted by olddogrib:
ishoot4thrills,
I'm sure Stumpkiller was referring to the angels mourning that soon-to-be dead animal just down the shaft of the 3U shooter, lol! It's one of the reasons I switched to ILF, I can counteract my heavy ring finger by syncing the limbs back up with negative tiller.
Uh.......right! I'm sure he did.......LOL!
;) ;) ;) ;) ;)