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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Keith Zimmerman on March 18, 2015, 05:49:00 PM

Title: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Keith Zimmerman on March 18, 2015, 05:49:00 PM
Going to pick it up on the way home.  Its at my buddys house.  Its been 14 months.  My bro is gonna be happy!
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: KentuckyTJ on March 18, 2015, 05:55:00 PM
Nice! Pics are needed first you know?
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Paul Cousineau on March 18, 2015, 05:56:00 PM
:campfire:
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Robert Armstrong on March 18, 2015, 06:03:00 PM
Hurry,lets see!!!
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: 1/4 away on March 18, 2015, 06:31:00 PM
What's taking so long ?
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: cacciatore on March 18, 2015, 06:40:00 PM
How cool is this? A Tip for a Zimmermann,what a news!   :biglaugh:
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Hermon on March 18, 2015, 07:04:00 PM
:campfire:
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: dragonheart on March 18, 2015, 07:15:00 PM
:campfire:
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: RAGHORN 3 on March 18, 2015, 07:32:00 PM
Very jealous!
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Danny Rowan on March 18, 2015, 07:36:00 PM
Ok Guys, my bro Keith asked me to post these of his brother Kim's bow, just a beautiful work of art from the Windauers.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v75/comanche/Bows/IMG_1864_zps4o5xid0w.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/comanche/media/Bows/IMG_1864_zps4o5xid0w.jpg.html)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v75/comanche/Bows/IMG_1862_zpsb4nje6fn.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/comanche/media/Bows/IMG_1862_zpsb4nje6fn.jpg.html)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v75/comanche/Bows/IMG_1854_zps74ctzojk.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/comanche/media/Bows/IMG_1854_zps74ctzojk.jpg.html)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v75/comanche/Bows/IMG_1859_zpscvt5i6dj.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/comanche/media/Bows/IMG_1859_zpscvt5i6dj.jpg.html)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v75/comanche/Bows/IMG_1865_zpspdb7fqqb.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/comanche/media/Bows/IMG_1865_zpspdb7fqqb.jpg.html)

Congratulations Kim!
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Bryan Korte on March 18, 2015, 07:43:00 PM
Omg that one is unbelievable.
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Pivo on March 18, 2015, 07:55:00 PM
SWEET
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: joe vt on March 18, 2015, 07:55:00 PM
OH MY GOODNESS!!!

That could be the prettiest bow I've ever seen.  Would love to see more of those belly lams.


That is an amazing looking bow!!  WOW++
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Chad Orde on March 18, 2015, 07:57:00 PM
Drooling now
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Yellow Dog on March 18, 2015, 08:02:00 PM
A work of art! Looks like Karelian Birch Burl on the belly to me.

  :thumbsup:    :thumbsup:    :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: pdk25 on March 18, 2015, 08:09:00 PM
It will look even better with some blood on it.  Sweet.
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: hitman on March 18, 2015, 08:14:00 PM
Sweeeet.
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: meathead on March 18, 2015, 08:18:00 PM
That's a beauty. What are the back and belly lams?
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Ragin Bull on March 18, 2015, 08:23:00 PM
Beautiful!!!!
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Jayrod on March 18, 2015, 08:37:00 PM
Congrats  Keith your bro has masterpiece!! AWESOME!
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: 1/4 away on March 18, 2015, 08:45:00 PM
Absolutely Stunning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: monsterbuck on March 18, 2015, 08:49:00 PM
Beautiful bow. I like it congrats.
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Big Ed on March 18, 2015, 08:51:00 PM
Nice!!
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: maxwell on March 18, 2015, 09:06:00 PM
WOW!!!! I have had a ton of silvertips and that one takes the cake*  Just beautiful
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: jsweka on March 18, 2015, 09:07:00 PM
Pretty nice!

Maybe Kim will let me fire a couple out of it at Denton Hill.
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Orion on March 18, 2015, 09:11:00 PM
My that is nice.    :thumbsup:    :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: ron w on March 18, 2015, 09:17:00 PM
Holy Cow........   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: RickE on March 18, 2015, 09:30:00 PM
Pretty spectacular.
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Guss on March 18, 2015, 09:41:00 PM
Wow..!! Nice...!!
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: britt on March 18, 2015, 09:45:00 PM
That bow is pretty. Wow.
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Longbow917 on March 18, 2015, 09:49:00 PM
UNREAL, that is one of the best looking recurves I have ever seen.....absolutely incredible.  Congrats for sure!
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: see on March 18, 2015, 09:50:00 PM
a truly beauty to behold. All Schafers are nice but this one is up at the top I've ever seen
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: KentuckyTJ on March 18, 2015, 09:56:00 PM
Shuweeee!
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: KyStickbow on March 18, 2015, 09:57:00 PM
Wow...thats gorgeous!!
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Big Lefty on March 18, 2015, 10:07:00 PM
What a beautiful bow!
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: philos on March 18, 2015, 10:25:00 PM
That is some serious bow porn-unbelievably nice bow
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Keith Zimmerman on March 18, 2015, 10:45:00 PM
Thanks guys.  I had a big write up about it and my phone wouldnt let me post.  I will do it tomorrow from my computer.
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: cacciatore on March 19, 2015, 04:22:00 AM
Absolutely stunning,old Kim has to be proud of this masterpiece.
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Sean B on March 19, 2015, 06:18:00 AM
Beautiful!!   How'bout some pics of her all strung up!!
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: bowtough on March 19, 2015, 07:49:00 AM
That is one beautiful bow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Keith Zimmerman on March 19, 2015, 08:43:00 AM
The bow turned out amazing.  I got more pics for Danny to post when he gets time.

Its 58 53@28.  YellowDog is right.  The bellys are Karelian Birch Burl.  The backs are Exhibition Grade Walnut Burl.  The overlays are all Kudu.  The riser is Macasser and Black and White Ebony.  The riser inlay is Cape Buff with an Ivory inlay of a Mule Deer Dave scrimshawed.

I bought the veneers at ETAR last year.  They look great together.  Daves job was to get them all to match up.  He did it.  According to Beth joking around, "Dave said he can do anything."  I hope so.  He has another one of a kind coming up.

I have a few pics of it braced.  I hope I sent them to Danny.
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: northener on March 19, 2015, 09:23:00 AM
Love it  

Nicest bow I have seen   wow.
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: bowhuntingrn on March 19, 2015, 09:34:00 AM
Wow! That's all I can say right now...just wow.
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: D. Key on March 19, 2015, 09:44:00 AM
Unbelievably beautiful.  One of the prettiest bows I have ever seen.

Congrats.
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: kat on March 19, 2015, 09:58:00 AM
Now that's worth the wait.
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Danny Rowan on March 19, 2015, 10:38:00 AM
Some more pics of this awesome bow.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v75/comanche/Bows/20150318_220757_zpsmjqknd4q.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/comanche/media/Bows/20150318_220757_zpsmjqknd4q.jpg.html)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v75/comanche/Bows/20150318_220832_zpseeah8via.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/comanche/media/Bows/20150318_220832_zpseeah8via.jpg.html)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v75/comanche/Bows/20150318_213641_zpsissjhpeo.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/comanche/media/Bows/20150318_213641_zpsissjhpeo.jpg.html)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v75/comanche/Bows/20150318_213344_zpsqjmoa3oh.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/comanche/media/Bows/20150318_213344_zpsqjmoa3oh.jpg.html)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v75/comanche/Bows/20150318_214335_zpsghlpfxxr.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/comanche/media/Bows/20150318_214335_zpsghlpfxxr.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Danny Rowan on March 19, 2015, 10:40:00 AM
 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v75/comanche/Bows/20150318_214222_zpsfzyskusg.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/comanche/media/Bows/20150318_214222_zpsfzyskusg.jpg.html)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v75/comanche/Bows/20150318_213606_zpsyl4jxcat.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/comanche/media/Bows/20150318_213606_zpsyl4jxcat.jpg.html)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v75/comanche/Bows/20150318_213530_zpsrk7lofza.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/comanche/media/Bows/20150318_213530_zpsrk7lofza.jpg.html)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v75/comanche/Bows/20150318_222334_zpsbpnobiib.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/comanche/media/Bows/20150318_222334_zpsbpnobiib.jpg.html)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v75/comanche/Bows/20150318_222221_zpsctrmavy7.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/comanche/media/Bows/20150318_222221_zpsctrmavy7.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: frassettor on March 19, 2015, 11:04:00 AM
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Alexander Traditional on March 19, 2015, 11:07:00 AM
That is gorgeous! I love the wood combos,and how they put them together.
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: DanielB89 on March 19, 2015, 11:28:00 AM
Keith, all you needed was another bow!! haha!  that is one beautiful bow.  

Made me lust a little.
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Whitetail Addict on March 19, 2015, 12:21:00 PM
Wow! That's a sweet looking bow, congrats.   :thumbsup:

Bob
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: breazyears on March 19, 2015, 12:33:00 PM
That is sharp! WOW.
I need to know how they get that "spackled" look with the finish.
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: warden415 on March 19, 2015, 12:49:00 PM
Amazing  bow as usual.
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: iohkus on March 19, 2015, 01:08:00 PM
BEAUTIFUL!!     :notworthy:    :notworthy:    :clapper:  

    If Dave wanted to, he could make a living just doing checkering!!

  WOW  WOW  WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Keith Zimmerman on March 19, 2015, 01:29:00 PM
Thanks guys.  Dave is amazing.  My brother is chomping at the bit to get it.  Hes going to be waiting awhile until he can pick it up.  He has the flu.  His loss.  I can shoot it:)

The last pic is showing the checkering.  Its finer than normal.  Something I asked for compared to my Tip from last year.
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: tracker12 on March 19, 2015, 01:41:00 PM
Sorry but I aint taken that in the woods:)
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Hopewell Tom on March 19, 2015, 02:07:00 PM
A one-piece with a dark back and light belly, my ideal.
Beautiful! Well done.
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: CDR on March 19, 2015, 02:27:00 PM
Absolutely PERFECT!!!!
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Danny Rowan on March 19, 2015, 02:29:00 PM
the bow braced.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v75/comanche/Bows/20150318_220718_zpsup5ieprh.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/comanche/media/Bows/20150318_220718_zpsup5ieprh.jpg.html)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v75/comanche/Bows/20150318_220148_zps5fxuac4t.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/comanche/media/Bows/20150318_220148_zps5fxuac4t.jpg.html)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v75/comanche/Bows/20150318_220421_zpsywhnjuth.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/comanche/media/Bows/20150318_220421_zpsywhnjuth.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: cacciatore on March 19, 2015, 02:44:00 PM
:clapper:  good work Danny!
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Sean B on March 19, 2015, 03:07:00 PM
That's ALMOST too pretty to hunt with!!!
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: BelegStrongbow on March 19, 2015, 03:24:00 PM
That bow invokes greed, envy, and lust from me. Haha.

On a serious note though, that is hands down by far the most beautiful bow I have ever seen. Plus 58" and 53@28, my perfect specs. I am truly happy for your brother and I hope that bow shoots straight and true for him.
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Jwilliam on March 19, 2015, 03:32:00 PM
What a sweet looking bow !!!  :notworthy:  


Bill
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: chase perry on March 19, 2015, 03:49:00 PM
Keith,

That is an exceptionally beautiful bow!  I haven't often seen a one piece, and love the elegant lines of the riser through fades.  The bow has a dark, ominous beauty about it.  You're brother has a special one there.

Take Care, Chase
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Steve Jr on March 19, 2015, 06:53:00 PM
That is beautiful!!!
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Izzy on March 19, 2015, 07:45:00 PM
I think Dave would come in last if he joined an ugly bow contest, even if he tried his hardest to win. Beautiful.
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Cyclic-Rivers on March 19, 2015, 07:47:00 PM
I could spend all day looking at that one.

Incredible bow!
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Possum Head on March 19, 2015, 08:45:00 PM
What can one say about that? If I could just embrace her!
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Tater on March 19, 2015, 08:47:00 PM
Damn.....that's purty..!!!!!
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: JD Page 1965 on March 19, 2015, 09:20:00 PM
Nice!
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: warden415 on March 19, 2015, 11:18:00 PM
Sweet
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Kevin Dill on March 20, 2015, 06:09:00 AM
Beautiful AND deadly. This bow scores a 10 because there is no 11.

Keith, some day I'm going to suggest that you and a few other TGers consult on the 'Ultimate Schaf'!
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Robert Armstrong on March 20, 2015, 06:18:00 AM
SWEET BOW, enjoy.
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Keith Zimmerman on March 20, 2015, 07:31:00 AM
Thanks guys.

Kevin, that could get interesting.  You would definitely need to be involved.
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Sockrsblur on March 20, 2015, 07:37:00 AM
Stunning bow Keith! Normally I really don't care for for white or really light colors on a bow but those belly lamps are so unique and blend so nice with the other woods in the bow... it's magnificent.
Thanks for sharing the photos   :)
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Mark R on March 20, 2015, 01:40:00 PM
I would sleep with that bow
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Ryman Cat on March 20, 2015, 03:52:00 PM
I would trade my bird dog for it. April fools.LOL

That some kind of beautiful though Keith you said it was going to be incredable.

You guys keep getting these done and I am loosing hope to out do you. Your causing me ro sit in the back seat lately.LOL
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Keith Zimmerman on March 20, 2015, 07:54:00 PM
Mark, how do you know the bow is a female bow:)? LOL!  

Cat, you have plenty of beauties.

Jim, you can shoot it at Sawmill or ETAR.  We missed each other last year.
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Sockrsblur on March 20, 2015, 09:01:00 PM
Thank you Keith!
   :campfire:
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: riverrat 2 on March 20, 2015, 09:19:00 PM
That is the best looking bow I've ever seen. I can't think of any bow...Longbow or Recurve that is as beautiful as that bow is. Those belly veneers and the way the overlays are done is perfect. Damn Keith..that thing is crazy. Congrats.  rat'
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: pamike on March 20, 2015, 09:25:00 PM
All I can say is WOW!
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: vintage-bears on March 21, 2015, 03:26:00 PM
Best looking Silvertip I have ever seen.
Congratulations!
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: jackdaw on March 21, 2015, 04:18:00 PM
Keith ol' buddy....that is a very nice silvertip...!!!!! Perhaps I'll see it later this year..????
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: YORNOC on March 21, 2015, 05:48:00 PM
Holy crap!
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: wooddamon1 on March 21, 2015, 07:23:00 PM
Holy moly! Beautiful bow!   :thumbsup:    :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: kat on March 22, 2015, 10:23:00 AM
I have never seen a Schafer that I didn't like, but that is a work of art.
Congratulations.
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: taxyman on March 22, 2015, 10:30:00 AM
Beautiful bow!    :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Whitetailarcher on March 23, 2015, 09:21:00 PM
Nothing else to say - that bow is incredible!
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: NBK on March 24, 2015, 12:16:00 AM
Wow... Just wow.
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Flying Dutchman on March 25, 2015, 06:38:00 AM
I think I could live with such a bow...
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: ncheels on March 25, 2015, 02:26:00 PM
OH MY!
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: johnnyk71 on March 25, 2015, 02:51:00 PM
good grief, that is a beautiful bow.
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Keith Zimmerman on March 25, 2015, 05:46:00 PM
Thanks.  Its even better in person.
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Darren on March 26, 2015, 12:57:00 AM
Im still drooling over these pics you sent me. Awesome bow buddy. I hope to see this bow lying on top of a 180" whitetail this fall !!
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: limbow on March 27, 2015, 09:28:00 AM
Be still... My heart

Congrats!
Title: Re: Whoo Hoo! Got a box in the mail from Schafer.
Post by: Chromebuck on March 27, 2015, 08:02:00 PM
Wicked drool!!!!  That is heirloom quality...