I bought a trad longbow when I was 17 with my own money, a LH #55 Martin Venom longbow to be exact. I thought that 55 pounds wouldn't be too bad since I worked out a lot and I would be able to handle it. I was definately wrong though, I was able to pull it back but it wasn't a breeze and I was never able to develop consistant good form because my first bow was such a high weight and this discouraged me. I'm 23 now and I have messed around with the bow every 6 months since I got it but I was wondering if anyone had tips on what I should do to improve my bow strength so I can develop good form and control of the bow. I saw the "Bow Trainer Strength Training for Archers" product on amazon and thought that would be a good start. Also I'm still in college (last year) so buying a new bow right now is not really feasible for me, although a #45 Martin Venom, Viper or Savannah would be awesome! :wavey:
Even for a healthy person it can be hard starting.
Shooting a bow properly with good form uses different muscles, especially your back muscles.
Any kind of resistance traing will help if the correct muscle groups are worked.
Even pulling the bow can help but don't forget to do both arms.
Welcome from Kentucky!
I would recommend selling it and buying a 45-50 lber. You will never really enjoy shooting with a over weight bow. Believe me I know. When I stepped down I couldn't shoot enough. It was fun again.
I bought the Bow Trainer 2 and a half months ago, and it works, but it's no miracle. The full draw bands only go up to 70# at my draw, so that's part of it.
When I was just starting out with hunting weight bows with training wheels 15 years or so ago (low letoff), I would draw on target, hold for 10-15 seconds, and release. Try doing that in sets of whatever you can handle and work your way up.
Mind your form and muscles, if they start feeling sore, especially in the wrong places, let up for a while. Damaged muscles are highly counter-productive.
Practice drawing & holding an inch or so past your normal draw length. Draw both left & right handed.
Yep, what KentuckyTJ said....get a lighter bow. You will develop very bad habits if you keep trying to shoot a bow that is not comfortable for you and those bad habits are a huge problem to get rid of....believe me!
The main thing is not to injure yourself, take it slow! To be able to shoot that bow will take dedication. You can't just try to shoot it every 6 months and expect results.
What you should do is slowly draw your bow and slowly let it down till you can't anymore. Do it 3 times a day 3 times a week. Give your body time to recover. After about two weeks you can start holding that weight at anchor till you can't anymore 3 times a day 3 times a week.
After another two weeks start mixing it up slowly drawing and letting down and holding at anchor.
You have to give your muscles time to recover especially at the start of your strength building process. it will take time you just have to stick with it
Wow I really appreciate all the feedback so soon from everyone! Thank you, I really appreciate it! :notworthy: I don't think I can part with the bow like yall are suggesting, it just has too much sentimental value to me. It would feel like selling a part of me. Though I definitely agree that if I can find the coin I should invest in a weaker bow so I develop good technique. I'm thinking I will try the trainer and "Msbow" and "Clint B." tips for training with the bow and be sure to do both arms to keep myself even. What books/videos did yall use to develop your form? I love watching Jeff Kavanagh's youtube videos, his anchor and secondary anchor point video were especially eye opening for me. :eek:
If you like to lift weights, focus on reverse butterfly exercises. There is no better form practice than that. Really focus on squeezing together your intrascapular and the muscles along your spine. These are the very ones which are employed during shooting and will keep your back muscles equally strong bilaterally. Pull-ups are another great exercise. Buy this book: Core Archery by Larry Wise. It explains well all the muscles necessary for good form, and how especially to use the back muscles. I suggest not concerning yourself with shooting at a target until your back muscles are conditioned. As others have said, you will just create poor form.
Take heart - once you utilize the proper back muscles, you will comfortably shoot that bow!
Go to you tube and type in moebow or Arne Moe he has some good videos on the subject of form. You will definitely have to control the bow and it not control you to begin even trying to have good form. I wouldn't even try to shoot your bow or work on form till you can control it or you WILL have bad habits. Form is all about having consistent control of the bow.
Pull ups AND push ups, you are pulling with one hand and pushing with the other. A couple of weeks and you will notice a difference. Building muscle by any method takes time............. A healthy adult male at 23 should be able to shoot 55# comfortably with a little work...............
Drawing both sides is important. I would add two tips. It is good for your shoulders to do an opposing exercise, since you will have your bow to do expansion work, do either reclining butterflies with dumbbells or push-ups. Also, when working on building muscle lift normally and then let down very slowly, the same when drawing a bow fro strength training, let it down very slowly for the first few inches after a full draw. The same for butterflies come up and then slowly lower the weights. You can get more muscle quicker with less weight when the muscle is expanding under resistance.
Flies are a great way to improve strength..........I have 2 five gallon water jugs-one for each hand. I do 2 sets of 15 reps each and towards the end of the second set the burn is really coming on. Some day I will put water in those jugs!
Since you want to keep your 55# Venom and build up to it, I would look around the usual sites for a bow that's just under 45#, not because you need that light but because there is an odd price jump when you hit 45# and another when you hit 50#.
Find a shootable lefty similar in overall design to the Venom , get a half-dozen arrows matched to that bow and your draw length and discover the joy of shooting with good form and consistency. You can pick up an excellent-shooting used longbow similar to a Venom in the 40-44# range, some for under $100. When you're really grooving with that bow, trade it \\ get a similar used 45-48# bow and do the same thing again at 50'ish.
My bows are 45# -60#, RH and LH, and I shoot all of them regularly, but I love those days I wake up and decide its a good day to to shoot stumps and/or sneak around looking for critters with my 45# 1962 Kodiak.
QuoteOriginally posted by hvyhitter:
Pull ups AND push ups, you are pulling with one hand and pushing with the other. A couple of weeks and you will notice a difference. Building muscle by any method takes time............. A healthy adult male at 23 should be able to shoot 55# comfortably with a little work...............
2X on this thought... No pain.... no gain...
But... if you are anxious to do a lot more shooting before you build your strength up you can pick up a 45# bow second hand pretty cheap. I've got a very nice Flatliner long bow for sale in the sponsors classified at a reduced price in your draw weight range.
QuoteOriginally posted by KentuckyTJ:
I would recommend selling it and buying a 45-50 lber. You will never really enjoy shooting with a over weight bow. Believe me I know. When I stepped down I couldn't shoot enough. It was fun again. [/QB]
Absolutely dead-on! Shooting a too-heavy bow will cause you nothing but misery! I'd go 45 lbs.
All good info above however, I can't help but think your doing something wrong.you said you work out and that your 23, 55# should not be too hard for you to shoot.I would also try concentrating on any info pertaining to the mechanics of drawing and holding the bow.
You could be right "njoco" and maybe I'm not describing the problem I am having too broadly and not accurately enough. My problem is not that I cannot draw back the bow fully to my full draw length and anchor point and do this smoothly(I'm 6'1" 190 lb with good muscle mass). It is that I have a hard time holding it there for more than say 5 to 7 seconds. And after say 30 to 45 minutes of shooting the bow I begin to tire and my shots become more quick draw in nature after my 2nd or 3rd arrow of the 6 I shoot. This quick shooting doesn't allow me to shoot accurately and use good, repeatable form. Which then makes my groupings more spaced out and inaccurate. Then leading me to become discouraged and have target panic. This target panic then makes it harder to shoot and makes me want to hold on to the arrow longer than I normally would. Which eventually discourages me to where I put the bow up till the next time the archery bug starts itching so bad I can't stop thinking about it and I have to pick the bow back up. This is why I posted the bow weight problem. Because I know I over bowed myself at the beginning which has taken away enjoyment from my shooting experience and want to stay with the hobby consistently. Thus I was lead here to ask about how to increase my bow strength since I don't have the coin to buy a lower weight bow right now. I want/need to increase my strength so that I can hold the string of my bow to anchor point "all day" so that I can focus on my form, get past my target panic, increase my accuracy, and fully enjoy the sport like I so long to do. :( Sorry I wasn't more explicit in my initial post.
Trying to post picture
(http://https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=462207280482023&set=a.221193917916695.48392.100000782669007&type=3&theater)
What I would suggest, is doing blind/blank bale practice, concentrate on form for a few weeks, this will also help you use those muscles and get used to engaging them as needed in shooting, as said above , a lighter bow would come in handy for this but since that's out of the question for now, the blind/blank bale is the next best thing. You could also look into making or buying a form master which will help.
Just to make feel a little better, my older son is about 5'7 @ 145-50 lbs, he swings two 70# kettle bells and usually works out with a 106 pounder,he's a solid brick wall, and I can hold my bows back longer and more steady then he can, so don't let it get you down because once you get the hang of it, you'll do just fine !
P.S. I don't know what the average hold time is but, I don't think I hold on target for more than 2-3 seconds but, I have been shooting a long time.
You might also try practicing with your Venom shooting three arrow groups rather than six. When fatigue is setting in, mental fatigue is likely as well, and it gets progressively harder to maintain your form and focus . Shoot three, think about how and why that group flew the way they did and hit where they hit while your walking and pulling arrows. The interim activities of walking, pulling arrows and even bending over to set down and pick up your bow also give some stretch and relax to all the major muscle groups.
I really appreciate all the help guys! :) :notworthy: I agree I think blank bale shooting would be very beneficial so that I could get past my target panic and focus on form. And reducing the number of arrows is definately something I should do. I think what I am going to do now though is not shoot yet. Get a bow trainer and work out with that so that I can get used to a weight that is MUCH higher than my bow weight so that when I step down it will feel so manageable in my hand. Also I have an additional question, sorry I don't know of any trad archers that I can pick their brains besides yall. Since I have never received proper training and on what correct form really is, so I'm shooting in a way blind to any small/big mistakes I am doing. What books do yall suggest? I have heard of Bryon Fergouson's book "Become the Arrow" , "Core Archery" by Larry Wise, and a couple of youtube channels. Is there anything that yall have come in contact with that would help me understand and improve my technique? I figured I could do some reading while I strengthen myself. Then use this new knowledge in conjunction with improved strength and using a bow trainer I'm hoping I can improve my form, accuracy and confidence!
Again thank you ALL for all of the help I appreciate this so much!! :clapper:
Here is a link to the image:
http://s27.postimg.org/8az9apuoj/bow.jpg
"Shooting the Stickbow" 2nd edition by Anthony Camera is a real good book lots of info in there. You can get it from 3 rivers archery or you can call them and ask the experts and they will recommend some books to you. They are very helpful at 3 rivers don't be scared to call just to ask a question. While your at it tell them to send you a catalogue.
I didn't page all the way back through this post, so somebody probably already suggested it, but look up "moebow" on you tube.
He has some really excellent videos on proper draw, release, and how to really get your back into the draw instead of your arms. You (or at least I) can watch those videos a lot of times and pick up a little more each time.
Then there is Masters of the Bare Bow, volumes 1 through 4, but especially number 3.
By the way, take a look at that picture of yourself from the back and then look at Terry's form clock. That high elbow has you way out of alignment with the arrow. Your back muscles should be pulling that elbow around to your back.
Somebody has already mentioned his channel but that only reinforces that his channel will be a great resource to use! I appreciate it! I'll have to buy "Shooting the Stickbow" and "masters of the Bare bow" if i can get a cheap used one from amazon of 3 rivers! I really appreciate the help everyone! I hope I can give an update on how everything goes! Gotta become a contributor so I can look at the classfieds and see if their is a cheap used bow there! Again Thank you so much everyone! :notworthy: :clapper:
If anyone has any other resources please feel free to add on to my list!
Watch moebow's videos on YouTube, take one thing that his individual video describes, check to see that your doing it, engrain it into your form (blank bale) then go on to the next phase. It's a little time consuming but well worth it in the long run.
After a 20+ year hiatus from trad, I used Moe's instructional info to OTHER people on here to check that I was still using good form and, to tighten up my form. This is after I had people telling me that I already had good form.
I still use blind/blank bale form practice every so often.
Ahh I see what your saying "njloco" blank bale it and watch his videos and focus on one part of my form at a time, instead of trying to be perfect in everything all at one. That's a great tip, I probably would have done the latter and gotten to bogged down!