Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: BigJim on March 17, 2015, 07:52:00 AM
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Ok guys, I am looking to "possibly" have a special pattern made up on Gold Tip shafts.
The timber sticks...or dark woods from them will no longer be available ...They were occasionally available as blems from us, but were a special pattern made up for Bear Paw...who has since moved their business to a Chinese company.
When I had them, they were very popular. I am considering having them make a special "Big Jim" pattern. They would be the identical shaft as their current offering in trad except my special pattern...oh yeah, and they would be full of hot air :) or maybe not.
Just a thought or two: What if they were a heavy grain pattern such as hickory, oak, or spruce in a medium to light color with a walnut footed shaft...or even both ends being footed with some darker colored wood?
Or maybe just a heavy grain of a medium or darker color?
Give me some ideas. My plan would be to have these in 32" in all sizes and for no more $$$ than the regular traditional shafts. They would also accept the standard GT nocks and inserts.
The idea is to have something that most anybody would like to have in their quiver. not something so bold and out of the box that I sit on them until they decompose.
Thanks, BigJim
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Something in gray would be nice!
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I understand about the woodgrain but a flat yellow just like the old microflights would look cool to.
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Something in a dark wood grain similar to the Easton Legacy shaft would also be cool.A dark wood grain shaft with a white or yellow cap/crown is always a classy look. Thanks Jim for always thinking of "us". Paul
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I always liked the Easton Knotty Birch that sadly got discontinued.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/joevt/959d9888-3267-44f7-ac86-cf7bd72787a4_zps8d8vkidn.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/joevt/media/959d9888-3267-44f7-ac86-cf7bd72787a4_zps8d8vkidn.jpg.html)
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I like the idea of the different colored footing on the top and the bottom.
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This is a great chance to have something more personal,if I have to choose a pattern it would be the old Serpent from JDA,but in a woody pattern a footed darker color would be nice. I really miss those Serpent.
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Jim, sounds sweet what ever it looks like.
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White cap to get rid of those wraps and dips.
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Too many cool options to list. Those serpents were sweet. And I think most "wood" options are really cool IF they show grain. If they don't. They are just brown or blonde. Which is why the "footing"is so appealing.
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Jim, a darker wood grain pattern would be great. I would love to have something in my quiver that matched my darker riser bows. Gotta be coordinated to kill in style after all!
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Jim,
Heck of a good idea. Get it right and almost every traditional archer in the country will be buying them.
Ash is a nice looking shaft. Lots of contrast in the grain when the finish is wiped on.
Or, I maybe autumn orange?
Also - Please consider 33" shafts!!! A lot or archers these day struggle to find a carbon shaft long enough. For some if 32" is long enough there is no tuning left in them for adjustments. You can corner the market for those guys. Right now only 3R has a 33" carbon shaft.
And finally - Bring back the .300 spine!
I'm glad there are distributors like yourself who are involved with the manufacturers.
Tedd
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Forgot to say that even though I want to, I can't currently use any GT shaft. Too short and too weak. The old 75/97 spine was right but only 32"
Tedd
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Jim, I like the idea of a footed shaft front and back. With darker woods. Walnut would be great. In contrast with the lighter wood. Keep it conservative, natural. think you'll appeal to more people.
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Sorry for listing too many personal preferences...
Love the look of footed shafts but lighter colored shafts are easier to see in your sight picture when it's near dark.
Tedd
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Joe Vt beat me to it, the birch would look great ! The wood grain that the old vapor shafts had looked really good too, if it was a little darker it would be even better.
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Definitely like the idea of the darker / heavier grain. The footing idea is a cool one, but I could do with or without it. I think if the nock end is going to be a different color, I would rather it be lighter. Maybe with a "burned crest" to separate the two colors.
Not the best pic, but you get the idea.
(http://i.imgur.com/k9qM9VE.jpg?1)
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One more thought, if you could get them to produce a "bone colored" nock that fits a 5/16" shaft, that would be awesome! I love the X nocks in this color, but unfortunately they have limited applications.
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I like Joe Vet's idea. And I also like exotic woods like Coco Bolo etc.
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Jim Crumley's Trebark is still the coolest looking camo on the planet- I think I had some aluminums one time in Trebark?
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If they're going to be "traditional", they have to be wood grain; no camo or obscure aluminum patterns. Ash would be nice, and a white crown cap would go with most any nock color. Footed in a dark wood grain would be determined by the most yea's or nay's, but if they are "re-inforced footed"(by the buyer)in aluminum, then the effect is lost.
JMTC :D
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They come full of "Hot air" free of charge? :biglaugh: :biglaugh:
Sign me up brutha! i gotta have some hot air arrows with a cool wood grain pattern.
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Autumn Orange with small white reflective wraps
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Always been a fan of dark wood, black nocks and dark brown feathers. Just ordered half a dozen GT trad hunters in 1535 with brown barred turkey 4"shield and black nocks. Looking forward to see them and shoot them...
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Can I echo the call for 33" or 34"? My shorter bows still pull that and one has best manners with carbons. That extra two inches means a lot in power.
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like the old carbonwoods from vapor would be grea,t any footing would be a plus
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I like the idea of dark mixed with light wood look - Footed type of a look. Esentially have a pre-made already done cap dip of a lighter/darker color.
Good luck - Anticipate the final result! Either way, I can tell you I'll be a customer.
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Something similar to Beman MFX Classic finish would be nice. I really like(liked) them. Heavy as possible.
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The lighter pattern they had was unique, I liked it. How about just running the hash marks cross grain and replicate bird's eye maple?
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My son and I would be down for 33" arrows :)
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Myrtl ?!
what GPI ? something light for good FOC?
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How's snake skin or Birch. Pete
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The color and grain of a 10 year old D.Fir shaft coated with oil based poly. Nice warm honey/osagey color.
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X2 on Trebark :D
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A med to dark wood grain would be nice or how about autumn orange.....
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Well guys, keep up the suggestions and there are some good ones in the bunch.
Here's the deal, I am fully intending on doing this if I can swing it, but it is going to require a very large commitment...like 1000 dz shafts the first year so I don't want to have them made up in a way that would only appeal to a small percent of the trad guys.
At this time I'm leaning towards a slightly darker and heavy woodgrain (more contrast) with either a white wrap on the end with a nice crest or just a nice crest.
It would be good to have all the details at the end short enough that if you didn't like the white or the crest, that a 9" wrap would cover it.
Just an idea as of now.
thanks, bigjim
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Jim, I like your idea. I think the dark wood grain would be really nice.
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Just my .02, but I'd prefer just the crest, no white wrap. That way I can keep them more "primitive" looking if I want or add a onestringer wrap if I want to make them more visible. Definitely like the idea of the darker / contrasting woodgrain and the extra length.
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Dark wood, crest only, no wrap.
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Dark reddish brown and curly maple if they can do it... Only issue with footings are people often cut them down to tune--I know they can cut the other end so maybe this wouldn't be an issue. Same situation with built in cap wraps---would also be cool to see your site logo on the arra.
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I'd love to see them come in looking like a footed arrow! I'd definitely buy some.
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I like WESTBROOK's idea of an aged Doug fir shaft with an oil finish look. A darker piney type grain would be great as well.
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I don't know about everybody else but I think cedar would look cool.
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Footed on the front end would be really cool. I would say a nice "yellowed" wood color or maybe a redish colored wood would be nice looking.
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Dark wood
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I would love something similar to the classic Bear shafts. I bet a carbon looking retro would be a hot seller.
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How about your signature ebony black and white.
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Any dark wood grain or better yet bring back the Autumn of the old XX75.. Please no yucky camo.
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Slightly darker than the current trad offerings with some white on the end sounds great and the extra grain would give it nice touch. Will we get word as soon as you make your decision?
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Ask em if you can get something that can be stained darker or bleached to a lighter color..... :D
My pick would be a little darker than the Gts are right now, but you gotta please the masses without makin a million different colors... :saywhat:
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footed dark wood.
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Well Jim, there you have it! Recommendations for patterns that were discontinued long ago because they were not popular, combined with requests for darker than current GT and lighter than current GT. I expect that with your eye for complimentary woods that I have seen you utilize in your bows your personal choice in arrow shaft pattern will be well accepted.
Those are my thoughts although unless they are available in the .300 spine I'm not a customer. Even if they will be available when you announce GT was discontinuing them I bought 5 dozen. That will probably last me for at least a year.
Regards to all,
Dan
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Darker shaft, crest, footed
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I'm in for 3 dz of dark wood pattern!
:campfire: :archer:
F-Manny
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(http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt46/Robertfishes/mahaska7.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/Robertfishes/media/mahaska7.jpg.html) a little bit darker than this red elm wood (would) look nice..I woodn't want any arrows darker than this East Indian Rosewood , might as well buy black arrows.. (http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt46/Robertfishes/bow15EIrosewood.jpg) (http://s596.photobucket.com/user/Robertfishes/media/bow15EIrosewood.jpg.html)
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I would do a darker wood grain. I am thinking natural camo.
I would not foot, cap or crest. The only thing you should do is put your logo on them, right next to the spine.
That leaves all sorts of room for individuals to make them like they want. A person's own imagination could create their own individual arrows.
All camo for turkey hunting, dark for ground blinds, brighter colors for practice/3D shoots. All the same spine shafts that shoot the same.
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I too would like 32.5" or 33" long shafts.
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Tradition shaft would be a wood grain white cap.Easy for DIY finish with great weight forward.
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Hey Big Jim, I think the idea YOU had sounds good to me!
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Originally posted by Mr. fingers:
How about your signature ebony black and white.
:campfire:
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Just bring the VPA Carbonwood look back.
What I deem even more important is to have closer spine groups. Normal carbon shafts are coming in about 15# spine difference in wood spine.
A lot of times, you either need to use a very light point or you need to go up and have a very heavy point weight upfront. Would love to see them doing more something like: 50#,60#,70#,80#,90# spine equivalents where standard 5/16" components fit (brass inserts etc.)
But traditional archery is only a niche market and we have to make do with what the composters want....
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Spoke with them yesterday and suggested again...go with longer shafts. Especially in the 600 spine since it is only 30".
The general consensus ...talking averages here is to go slightly darker with a more prominent spine.
The existing pattern is already on the light "color" side so there is no need to re think that ..I think.
As much as I like the cap dip and footing idea, I think that would leave a lot of people out of the mix.
I would also love to have these personalized with a logo but worry that it would keep other business from purchasing these to resale. I'm not after an exclusive nor do I believe that everyone would buy from me...but I don't see why not :)
What I'm after is something different just because. It might be cool to give them a "cool" name. How bout Gold tip "woodies"
"Go to the woods with a "WOODIE" and keep your wife wondering what's really going on" :)
Sorry, couldn't help myself...probably wouldn't be helpful to those who have a hard time getting a kitchen pass.
Thanks, bigJim
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Longer is good I too am one that keep GT full length because of my 31 1/2" draw. In fact that is why I shoot GT in the first place. Hard to find long shafts these days.
How about "Big Woods" or "Big Woodies"
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I like "Big Woods"
or Big Jim's Big Woods arrows?
I really like the idea of keeping them simple and allowing the individual to personalize them.
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I love the idea of grey. Birch maybe? I buy all my arrows from you guys anyhow so more options is always better.
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Beautiful grain in a rich dark wood -- that's a look that would be very popular. Then they can be individualized by the owner with cap and crest, etc.
My 2 cents worth.
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Oh Oh Oh how about "Deliverance" just the name sounds tough and mean.
Just another name if you feel "Big Jims" name would limit the shaft
I too like the rich dark grain pattern.
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I spoke with GT again this evening and it is looking good but still locking in a few items such as over all length of shafts and pattern.
this is going to take some time I think. I will also have to name them of course.
They won't be footed, and they wont have a cap wrap. If I have anything to say about it, the graphics will be small. Anyway, they are all removable.
I am hoping to see some patterns real soon.
BigJIm
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yeah, it might seem like extra trouble, but it is fun...I can't wait to see some of the currently available patterns. GT says they already have quite a few in the system.
I have been thinking hard about the light/dark thing and the one thing that keeps poping up in my head is a moderately light colored shaft...not lighter than their current offering with considerably darker grain lines.
Kind like wiping a shaft with black and then cleaning off as much as possible. The color would stay in the grain but only be a hint in the rest of the arrow.
Naming this will be fun, but the best names (funny names) often offend. Certainly won't offend me. I have thick skin...keeps my belly from falling too far over the belt. But many are not so forgiving.
My rep at GT told me of two different retailers of theirs that dropped the GT line because of their new catch phrase of "Dam Straight". Wow that is sensitive.
How bout "BigJims...Darts" after all, it seems like everyone is trying to achieve arrows that fly like darts. I'm just kidding here too as this old comparison can get "OLD".
BigJIm...just having fun.
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I'm thinking a dark colour also Jim as there are a few of the lighter coloured carbons on the market now like what 3Rivers offers and also my current shaft, the AD trads.
I know I'd shoot them if you offered a darker stain like a dark walnut... Even a light, figured ebony even.
At the end of the day you have to please the masses...
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I would love a pattern that is natural camo by itself. Natural turkey feathers and brown nocks would be perfect.
Definitely a plus when going after turkeys and deer on the ground with no ground blind.
Big Woods for the big woods.
Bright wraps/feathers/nocks for the target.
Light colored shafts for prairie hunting.
Black shafts for the ground blinds.
Color coordination at it's best!
Is my Type A showing?
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I like the idea of doing them in a dark wood with a footing. Maybe the footing can be a highly figured burl or something like that,
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You can color shafts to look like wood...
but to me, it's kinda like putting lipstick on a pig...
That's just me
:dunno:
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Jim,
You hit it above.... grain lines with enough contrast that they "pop out"
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You know the saying.."if you build it, they will come". Whatever you decide on, people will buy it. Not just because of the colors, but because they know they're getting great service/price from you. I'm excited to see some new colors, I like the idea of a dark color.
I bought some "Dark Woodgrain" GT Trads last year and when they came I was disappointed at how light in color they actually were. A deep red/brown would look great.
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You could call them BJs Woodies/naturals.
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Since GT bought out VPA back then, just name them Big Jims's Carbonwoods again.I don't think that will offend anyone.
I think traditional archers can very well do without all the "flashy (trashy?) advertising" which is so common in the composting world.
Isn't it more true, that for us traditional archers, it is the most annoying thing that product lines/names/specifications always change and when you need replacements for your worn out stuff the product is long out of production???
That's why I think, if GT would be able to offer shafts more in line with regular spine designations and keep them constant, there would be a good dependable market.
That is one reason I mostly will stay with wood. They are pretty much the same over years if they are straight grained shafts. For traveling and EFOC, carbon works real well.
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BigJim, I like the idea of the footed wood grain. Also black and white ebony would be cool. I know I will be up for adozen.
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Dark Grainy wood without footing gets my vote. I have a set of darker gold tips from you from about 2 years ago and loved them.
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Big jim...just something to keep in mind, I think the new byron Ferguson heavy hunters have a darker grain and may have the footed end. I talked with him at an event and he showed me some pics. As for a name hohow about "hardwoods"
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i second big Jim's big woods in beard hair camo :smileystooges:
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Hey Fingers, I think you have a good idea there...beard camo. Might work :)
Fastitz, I haven't got the skivvy on the new Ferguson's but unless they come in much cheaper than before, I wouldn't expect to see them around much. Before the heavy hunter blems, I couldn't sell one dozen in an entire year.
I would expect them to be cheaper though as Bear Paw (owner of the Heavy Hunters) moved all their carbon business to China.
I was hoping for some patterns today, but will spend a long weekend thinking about it instead.
Thanks, bigjim
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Frankly, most would like to see that camo pattern on arrow GT velocity
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Bowfanatik, I don't get any call for the velocity...besides, if they add a wrap..pattern to them, they will be heavier and nearly the same thing as what we have now.
I am waiting on seeing the pattern before deciding on a name.
It was obvious to me before even starting this thread that it would be impossible to satisfy everyone but given the current selection of wood grain shafts available to us at this time, I felt that a popular option could easily be achieved.
I have expressed to Gold Tip that what I was looking for in a shaft was: 1)- .006 straightness or better. They told me for every dz traditional shafts they sell in .003, they sell 1000 dz in .006 straightness....makes sense to me.
2)- High contrast, more "real" looking wood shaft with more prominent grain patterns.
3)- at least 33" shafts in all sizes but would prefer 34". They have the mandrels. I have a couple sets of the recently discontinued "Timber sticks" they made for Bear Paw in 300 spine that are 34". I have to cut them to be stiff enough, but at least I have the option.
4)- A price point that will place them the same or right at the current pricing of the existing Gold Tip Traditional's. Adding 2"s to each shaft is likely to bring the price up slightly (calculator says $5 per dz) I'm hoping to be able to absorb that if possible. It will depend however on what my overall commitment is going to be.
Any of the other suggestions sound great, but are not realistic. Heavier shafts cost more as would developing more spine options.
A couple things I believe I have learned through the years is that guys/gals want wood grain carbons, but aren't necessarily willing to pay top dollar when there is another option.
Lots say they don't care about the pattern, but I am amazed at how many will wait months on end for me to get the wood grain blems in and won't buy other blemished patterns...Unless they are purchasing full price wood grain from some one else...
I will keep ya'll posted on the developments as they happen.
Thanks, bigjim
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just say velocity ,because big FOC
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Thanks Jim for polling... I think you are on the right tract for sure...
:thumbsup:
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Jim,
Personally, I find it very hard to pass up the deal you have on GT Trad Blems.
When I shot a compound I shot the best arrow (straightest) I could afford but don't find it necessary in a trad bow hunting situation. Maybe something to think about.
Not trying to discourage you but I think this might be a popular mindset in trad bow shooters outside target shooting
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Hey Jim , why you don´t make poll with photos ....just for fun , to see
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I'm thinking 33" full length Rosewood grained shafts. No footing or crest.
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awbowman, I agree, the blems are a great deal, but we already spend about half the year with no blem wood grains to sell.
In 2014, we got every single blem they had except about 400 dz. That came out to be more than 4000 dz shafts. they sold fantastically...but we still sold non blemishes regularly.
Not everyone believes that there is not enough difference.
Given the choice and having to purchase with my $$ I pick blems every time for hunting and targets. But again, there will only be so many of those and eventually they will have fewer and fewer.
The only reason they have so many now is because they make such a tremendous amount of shafts and growing.
My rep said this has started out to be their best year ever.
Bowfanatik, when I narrow down the patters, I will post them. Maybe a poll, maybe just opinions.
Stagetek, I'm thinking at least 33"
thanks, bigjim
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Jim- The old BlackHawk Vapor Carbonwood would be an excellent finish to reproduce, like dark stained ash! The finish is incredibly durable as well. I agree crest only.
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I know carbons aren't for everyone, but I'm here to help those who want to go that way...or for wood too.
I will leave the aluminum thing for everyone else.
The thing is, if you have tried carbon and didn't or couldn't find something you were happy with, chances are you received bad info...there is a lot of it out there.
There are some distinct advantages but they don't go without a few disadvantages such as having to learn a whole new medium and they can't be cut with just any old equipment.
Carbon misconceptions : They are too light and can't get a reasonable total weight. ANSWER: putting the weight up front will allow us a better flying arrow that recovers from paradox much quicker.
You can choose a shaft with the weight you want and just break spine down by adding weight...Wrong. ANSWER: yes it is true that adding weight to the front will soften spine a little, but by just adding a little to a lot of weight to an already FOC shaft will not make up for choosing the wrong spine shaft or over cutting of an arrow.
Carbons can be difficult to tune. ANSWER: yes, this can be true if you treat them like other arrow medium. Carbon is it's own separate game. It is not difficult nor is it magic, but it does take a different mind set when tuning.
These are just a few things I hear on a regular basis and it goes on and on. I am however about out of coffee and will have to go back to work.
For the fun of it I thought about typing this whole post in caps, but I just couldn't afford it so I will end with an exclamation point! and a smile :)
BigJim
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Carbons are pretty much the bees knees for arrow shafts. It's either woodies from Paul Jalon or Carbons for me
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My only wish would be for a 250 spine that isn't too heavy so I can get a higher point weight without having to shim my side plate so much...otherwise all you options sound spot on
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BigJim, how is this coming along? Any news?
Nevermind...I just found the new post.
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Some people, when they here the name BIG JIM automatically think,Black and White Ebony bow.Why not!
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Any of the darker hardwood grain and colors, like a black walnut... I really liked the original Carbonwood color, much more than the lighter colored GT wood grain...
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Looking forward to seeing what you end up with, Jim.....
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Yeah, for the most part, I think we have a color and pattern...at least in picture form.
Hopefully I will get my first set of samples next month.
Thanks, bigjim
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I'll buy some Jim :)
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So can you show to us ,that photo
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That would be nice can you show us?