Hello, all.
I'm in the process of replacing some well-worn, decades old hunting clothing. As I do my research in selecting pants, shirts, jackets, and such I realize I know nothing about the new (new to me anyway) "technical" clothing. I've perused the past threads here, emailed the company reps, and read other reviews, and still have a few unanswered questions. I'm hoping the members of Trad Gang can help me out.
1) The term "athletic fit" makes me nervous. I need pants that are roomy in the seat and thighs. "Athletic fit" conjures up images of slim fit type jeans which are an absolute no go for me. I want/need pants where the legs fit me without having to get a waist size 2 sizes bigger than it needs to be. Thoughts?
2) I've always liked cotton and wool because of it's organic, comfortable feel no matter what the temp is. The polyester type material (might not be polyester, but it appears that way) of the new technical clothing makes me think of the old original polyester dress clothes of the 70's that were stifling hot in the summer and freezing cold in the winter. I'm sure this is not like that, but I would like to hear some first hand accounts from those who wear it in both hot and cold weather.
3) I think less bulk would be a definite advantage of the newer clothing, but just how good does it do in the cold? Can you really get by with just a couple of layers? By cold I'm talking single digits to below zero.
4) How does the durability compare to my old cotton and wool garments?
5) How is the overall comfort? I know this is subjective, but I'm trying to get a big picture consensus.
6) Anything else I haven't thought to ask?
Thanks much for your input. I look forward to what I'm going to learn.
First, I would think if your talking about the new systems they are all about layering. Meaning, next to skin, a mid layer, and then your outer wear. Having used many I mix my clothing up between FirstLite , Kuiu, and Sitka. I would have to say IMO I like the FirstLite for fit and quality the most. It is so tough to make choices on clothing when you can't get your hands on it to see for yourself. But for the future I'm going to try to stick with FirstLite. I have been very pleased with all aspects of their clothing pieces.
You need to try some on. I can easily slip into a Sitka XL jacket and can't even get close to the Kuiu XL I bought for my son-he is an 'Athletic Fit'- I used to be one too.
So fit is a concern, but the quality materials and workmanship from both companies is really outstanding-even though both are now made in China. You can't go wrong with either if they fit-find what you like and stick with it. One more thing: if you stalk you must walk a little bow-legged or suffer that 'swish swish' sound-it is subtle but present. A white tail or hog will pick it up-how do I know?
I don't know anything about hunting in single digit weather so I can't help you there.
:biglaugh:
I will however say that while Kuiu and Sitka are FANTASTIC lines of clothing , they are designed to be more of an "on the go" type system and not a "sit in the stand" from dawn to dusk system. Just something to think about. The exception may be Sitka's fanatic system
If I were just hunting whitetails in MN, ND, I would continue to use my old wools and various camo bought over the years.
For me the benefit of say Sitka is lightweight, water repellant, abrasion resistant and well worth it for elk hunting in CO. That is why I bought it.
None of it would keep me warm enough for hunting in Nov, Dec. that is what my Heater suit is for, and it does it very well.
I am a huge fan of First Lite gear, have everything except their Sanctuary Jacket.
I am 6' 1.5" and was 230# during hunting season. Slimmed down a bit and will be under 200# by the time spring be a rolls around. I think the Kanabs by First Lite are fantastic. I bought a large and they were slightly baggy, I have a football players legs and hips haha.
I bought a pair of Sitka Assent pants about 6 years ago. I liked them so much that I picked up the 90% pants and 90% Jacket. I wear one of the pairs of pants and the jacket for 95 percent of the times I hunt. Very Cold weather and I put on my Silent Predator Wool.
I have a pile of camo hunting cloths that never see the woods since I bought my Sitka pieces. And that includes plenty of days on stand out east. During my western hunts this stuff really shines if you are moving. Durability is unmatched.
No experience with Kuiu except the one piece I bought I sent back because the fit was to tight.
QuoteOriginally posted by Iowabowhunter:
I am a huge fan of First Lite gear, have everything except their Sanctuary Jacket.
I am 6' 1.5" and was 230# during hunting season. Slimmed down a bit and will be under 200# by the time spring be a rolls around. I think the Kanabs by First Lite are fantastic. I bought a large and they were slightly baggy, I have a football players legs and hips haha.
i will second all of this. i am similar sized (o.k., heavier, haha!). i do have the Sanctuary jacket, and i love it. First Lite is first rate with me! most of my stuff is 2X. worth every penny.
It's well made, but FAR too expensive, backpacking-type gear that's too heavy for backpacking and not warm enough for stand hunting. If you're deer hunting, there are much cheaper options, especially if you don't care about camo. I can get Sitka at wholesale through my job and still haven't bought any of it.
Also, if you need to be warm in a stand, you need down or Primaloft insulation, bottom line, period. Think about sleeping bags--they're designed to keep a sedentary human warm in ridiculous temperatures--do you ever see cold weather sleeping bags made from wool or fleece? Ever wonder why ALL the best cold-weather bags are down or Primaloft? I have a down puffy and Primaloft pants I pack into my stand and put on with the puffy going underneath my lightweight jacket that is one size too big for me. It works so well that my hands and feet no longer get cold, I can wear uninsulated boots, and sit as long as I want.
Back to the hollywood brands you asked about, though. They sure do look "cool"! But personally when I see folks decked out in matching KUIU/Sitka/First Lite gear, I think they must have more money than sense.
Just my thoughts!
Kevin, don't worry about the athletic cut. These new clothes are made to stretch so they don't need to be baggy for freedom of movement like we have been so used to. To prove that point, I have put Both Denny Sturgis and Mike Mitten in size MEDIUM Sitka Gear Jackets in front of people and had them draw bows.Once you try this "technical" stuff, you will fight hard to stay in it. I'll never climb a mountain in wool pants again.
I'll talk only about Sitka Gear (and exclude their line intended for use in treestands and the like) because my experience is limited to that. By way of background, I've spent a lifetime outdoors in what other people call "bad" weather, and I sold outdoor gear and clothing for five years as well.
The Sitka clothing is patterned (no pun intended) on apparel that climbers and backpackers have been using for years when exerting themselves heavily. It has the virtue of shedding heat and moisture very effectively. It is very durable. It is extremely non-restrictive when shooting a bow and moving across terrain.
Their Mountain Gore-Tex Glove is one of my all-time favorite pieces of clothing, bar none. I can even shoot my bow with it very effectively, although the leather finger covers are a little thin for extended practice sessions.
BUT:
The wrists on some items must have been fitted on fashion mannikins. I'm 6'0", 220 pounds, and I have to spend a few minutes getting my hands free of the softshell jacket and pullover I have. It is a major annoyance and very inconvenient in the field.
The velcro tabs to close off the wrists on the hardshell jacket are grossly inadequate for the task of sealing the gap between sleeve and glove in winter. If you aren't wearing gauntlet-style gloves or mitts, you will soon feel the cold air.
I received a complete outfit as a prize. I like the stuff and wear it regularly. But it is very expensive at regular prices.
I grew up in MN and have lived in AK as well. There's no way I'd go in the field in the winter months without wool for insulation, and the Sitka Gear needs to be sized with that in mind if you're looking at it. It is a fairly slim fit.
I agree with Steve. I did buy the pants and jacket and shirt and would do it again. I backpacked in heavy cotton on a couple of elk hunts before that - I think my pant legs were wet every day and never really dried out. I didn't care for that very much either.
Other people will have different views and experiences and that's fine. At my age and condition I thought it was worth the price. For my elk hunting. For anything else I wouldn't have bought it. That is just me.
Like you, I've been replacing some old hunting clothing and purchasing upgraded clothing. I chose First Lite. The merino wool is great and much better than polyester. They have Cocona technology, which you can read about. First Lite had a problem originally with their Kanab pants in that they were not cut more generously in the legs, thighs and rear end. They solved that problem. With the exception of First Lite's Sanctuary jacket, most of their clothing are meant for the "active hunter," not stationary hunters in very cold conditions. First Lite's clothing, some of the reviews say, will keep you comfortable, while stationary, in 20-30 degrees. That said, here was my approach. I purchased several of their garments for western hunting and warmer mid-west conditions. I plan to use the old stand by, cold weather heavy wool apparel for mid-west very cold conditions.
As far as durability goes, I cannot speak to that. In Illinois where I hunt, there are a lot of briar patches. I've refused to wear my First Lite Storm Tight jacket and pants, Uncompahgre Puffy jacket and North Branch soft shell clothing into the Illinois woods because I don't want to damage them given their cost. I do, however, wear the First Lite merino wool top layers and plan to wear my Kanab pants in the Illinois woods.
The wool layering tops and Kanab pants (rip stop woven marino wool are very durable I'm told). Although I haven't worn my Kanab pants into the Illinois woods, only worn my wool tops, I plan to this year. They dry quickly, pull moisture from your body and wear very well.
I don't know if this fully answers your questions, but I hope so.
Tough to beat a mid layer of wool.
GREAT, well thought out information.....thanks to all who have contributed! As I continue digesting what has been shared so far, I hope more will chime in.
Steve O, PM sent.
Use the First Lite for my base layer and Sitka for the rest.No problem sitting in the trees in our Canadian winters.Not as bulky as the KOM I use to own.
All those fancy clothes don't bring me deer. I suppose if you've got nothing better to spend your money on; go for it. I'll stick with grandpas old tried and true hunting clothes.
Don't overlook Under Armor for your cold gear. It's less pricy than some but works well. I use the 3.0 base layer plus one pair of pants and two layers up top, and stay comfy in a stand into the twenties and moving about cooler than that. 3.0 base is roughly $150 and allows you tons of options to wear over it.
Charlie, good suggestion on the Under Armour. Are their pants fairly loose?
I have owned and used (hard) both Sitka and KUIU. Both are extremely fine product lines, but admittedly very costly when compared to 'normal' deer-hunting clothing and garments. For those who want great clothes to mainly deer-hunt in, there are many alternatives. Just this year I bought some new stuff from the Predator line, and I KNOW it will be great for my Ohio whitetails. I use my high-tech gear some for deer, but I'm one who thinks there are plenty of items out there that work just as well (or even better) for far less investment.
'Athletic Fit'...I was weird on this too, until I got used to it. However, if you are not in reasonably decent shape the fit may simply be too far off in one dimension. The close fit suits me better for active hunting with a backpack. The polyester/DWR outer finish repels dirt and grime on long backcountry hunts. The stretch/flex factor is important in this type of clothing. As SteveO pointed out, you can still shoot a bow with snug clothing as long as it can stretch. It just feels strange if you've been wearing comfortably loose stuff. btw...I prefer a more comfortable fit when sitting for deer. I think less restriction and more air-trapping keeps me warmer and flexible on cold mornings.
It is my observation that most who slam Sitka Gear have never worn the stuff and really don't know what they are talking about. Good gear cost money and is cheaper in the long run than buying cheap crap and replacing it each year. If you like shivering in wet blue jeans and a cotton camo hoodie then go for it!
I still love my KOM wool and wear it often, but when the wind kicks up and it gets really cold I'll be wearing my Sitka gear.
The fanatic series is perfect for long treestand sits and is very comfortable.
It's too early to tell how well Sitka gear will hold up over time but it seems very durable. I have some wool garments that I bought 20 years ago that are still going strong. At the time I bought them I felt they were overpriced but averaged out over the years they've been a bargain.
No experience with the other brands but Sitka gear is true to size. If you wear XL normally, order XL. It's always great to try it on first if you can.
I live in the Deep South but spend most of November between Kansas and Missouri in a stand. My tolerance for cold is terrible and until a few years ago I stayed miserable. I have used sitka gear on my early season western hunts since its inception and it just keeps getting better. When Sitka came out with its whitetail line I found what I needed.
Under Armor base layer (best regardless of price), the sitka down bottoms and top (I use their light down vest in afternoons), and any of their outer layers with windstopper and you're cooking!
I am sort of a gear-a-holic, so I have tried a lot of the stuff out there, always with an eye out for good sales, kept some of it, passed some of it along. The new stuff is all pretty amazing, and beautifully made.
Sitka, Kuiu and First Lite all are high end in quality. I have a few lesser items from Kuiu so I am less informed about their clothing, but over the years I have had a number of Sitka items, most recently their Stratus (windproof)line, and several First lite items including a Chama Hoody, and an Uncompaghre (SP?) jacket, both of which are totally well thought out and useful over a wide range of temps.
In my experience, the fit is narrow on all, so just go up a size and you will be comfortable, with room to layer. When warmth is needed, by which I mean sitting for a few hours in single or low double digit temps, I am back in my wool stuff, either KOM or the now-defunct Sleeping Indian. Both are exceptional in their ability to keep you comfortable in cold weather.
You have to consider the camo patterns, too, and Kuiu has some good ones. The new Sitka elevated pattern is also excellent. My 2 cents. PS they are just as comfortable as cotton blends in the right temps.
The continued flow of information is appreciated. It has convinced me this type of clothing is definitely worth checking out. Now my biggest obstacle is wading through the bewildering array of options!
Keep the opinions coming...
Look at Gray wolf, they are a sponsor. The clothes can be custom fit and will last a lifetime. The wolfskin material for early season in Predator pattern, you can get them lined with windstop lining or insulated for later in the season.
They also have wool asat for real cold weather. The clothes are hand made & worth the time & effort. I own Kuiu and sitka stuff for elk hunting, but for deer hunting I much prefer the Gray wolf camo. I own a ton of the stuff, I`m still using the original pullover I bought in 98 and it is perfect.
The owners are great to deal with, and make the clothes themselves.
Made in the USA, by traditional archers and by hand. That says something.
My experience also has been limited to Sitka gear. IF YOU WANT CAMO, it's worth the money IMO. For base layers and mid layers, not so much. Price to price, Sitka falls way short in comparison to top performance clothing makers like Arc'teryx, Marmot, Mountain Hardware, etc.
My opinion is I have and use these kinds of cloths when I am out west packing in or hunting but here in my own state of Pa I do not wear any of the outer layer of clothing. I save it for out there. Here at home I may use the base and middle layer but I have other very good outer layers that work very good. I would suggest that if you want it get it it is very good stuff but for hunting around your house you do not need it and can get very effective clothing for a lot less money. When it really matters is when you can not go home when your wet and cold and your life may depend on what you are wearing then I would highly recommend the High end clothing it is worth every penny then. Widow
Kevin, I use their base layer which is skin tight long underwear. They do sell pants of various fits, but I have not tried them out.
Thanks, Charlie.
Good info here.
I'm sold on Merino wool. It's hands down the warmest and, importantly for us hunters, "scent free" clothing I've found. Not that it will prevent you from getting scented by game, but you can get dressed without gagging on your own stink as you will with synthetic materials worn for more than a day or two. For under garments where camo isn't so important, you can generally find reasonable deals on base and mid layers of you keep an eye on Sierra Trading Post or LL Bean outlets. Smartwool makes some nice sweaters in muted colors. I'm a big First Lite fan. Their Kanab pants are my favorite pants until the temps drop, then I switch to my Day One woolies. Word of warning on the Kanabs. They are light weight. Don't order them expecting "woolies." They are lightweight, lighter than a pair of thin jeans. But they are comfortable and well designed. Durability isn't the greatest. I've poked holes in them with sticks and won't advise them if you hunt a lot of brush and briars. I noticed yesterday than the crotch is getting see through at the wear/flex points and doubt they'll last a third season. A short lived garment for the price, but I'm buying another pair because I like them so much. If you haven't checked out Day One, do so. They make custom camo in a wide variety of fabrics. Well made and durable stuff. Their wool is a dense weave and blocks wind on its own. Add a wind block layer and its impervious. It's not back packing gear though. Heavy and bulky. Their fleece vest is my favorite hunting garment as long as its cold enough to wear. Well designed pockets.
I've discovered that Merino is as effective at keeping you cool in hot weather as it is warm in cold weather. My First Lite Llano is a well worn peice of clothing. Wear it alone when it's 70.
Above 60- llano and Kanabs alone.
40-60- merino T shirt, 200 gram merino long johns top and bottom, llano, Day One fleece or First Lite Springer vest and kanabs.
30-40- same as above but add another layer of 400 gram merino up top. If it's windy I'll wear my Day One wool pullover.
Below 30- merino t shirt, two layers of 200 gram merino, Day one pullover and day one fleece vest up top. 400 gram wool power long johns and day one woolies on bottom.
Merino is stretchy and relatively thin so I don't find layering to feel confining. This keeps me warm for stand hunting as cold as it gets here in MD. Teens and occasionally single digits in the late season in MD. I did buy a pair of soft shell high tech pants from FL. I haven't worn them yet. They are noisy compared to my wool. I know I'll get made in close quarters shot situations so they've yet to see the woods.
I used to be a cheapskate. But as my income has increased, I've found that investing in quality gear pays off in the long run. I will never buy cotton camo again, other than to stuff a target bag.