I'm thinking about doing some camping this winter. going through my camping gear I got curious.
Here in kansas we rarely get extreme cold usualy down in the teens and only for a couple days at a time. I see most people using canvas wall tents for cold weather camping....why? would aregular tent work?...why or why not?
I have a pretty large two room tent that I use for fall when I go fishing just not sure I want to get out in the snow/cold wind and find out my tent aint cuttin it.
I read about warm weather tents, 2-3 season tents...4 season tents.....hows one to find out what kind of tent I have...I'm trying to find a pic of my tent online...I will keep looking...
BTW I have the bag, bag liner, and cot all ready...a heater in the tent really scares me. We had a boyscout leader around here die on a scout trip from fumes from burning a heater in the tent.....my tent does not allow me to use a stove so what kind of heater for inside a tent...something very very very safe.
here's my tent 13X10' except my rain fly comes down a little further ...almost covers the windows....it also has a little 4x3 tarp in front of the doors
(http://i.walmart.com/i/p/00/72/70/01/12/0072700112124_500X500.jpg)
When I go cold weather camping, I always use a small two person tent. If you have a good bag and pad you don't really need to worry about heat. You can always use a candle lantern suspended from the ceiling if you want a little heat though. I stay away from heaters, even the fumeless ones. That's just me though. Condensation is sometimes a problem but I generally don't get too cold.
I have a 4 season marine issue tent. (2 man) To sleep in and a large 2 season to hang out in and keep my gear and cooking stuff in and dry. I also have a little coleman black cat propane heater that will warm things up in a little tent fast. I just light it up for a little before bed.I always take a carbon tester incase needed.a 4 season tent will have a rain/wind fly that goes to the ground and full zipper up windows
One trick I learned is to use two tents. I pitched a cabin tent, 10X12 or so, and then pitched a dome tent inside of it to sleep in. It is amazing how much body warmth that will capture.
Dennis
that is straight up summer tent Jeff. Last nov. my son and I had a tent like that set up and we slept in the back of the truck with a little shell. A blow up matress and - 30 bags.
ks
If the two girls in the picture camp with you, you will stay warm don't you think?
QuoteOriginally posted by geno:
that is straight up summer tent Jeff. Last nov. my son and I had a tent like that set up and we slept in the back of the truck with a little shell. A blow up matress and - 30 bags.
Leak like crazy?
Legolas
dang I think they may be a tad young....
Cabela's Alaknak with a wood stove makes a toasty shelter in winter. I've got two canvas wall tents I use- one with a stove port. (http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e24/wapiteee/Colorado8-27to9-5-0467.jpg)
QuoteOriginally posted by Aeronut:
One trick I learned is to use two tents.
Absolutely right! Something small for sleeping inside something large for shedding wind and stashing gear. A great combo!
The tent in the pic won't provide much warmth: too large and breezy. If you've got the room to pack that, though, you've got the room for a couple sleeping bags: I've always found a couple summer bags to be warmer than a winter bag.
If you need a tent - and I've spent a good bit of time sleeping in freezing weather without one - anything is a help.
as far as bags go I use a couples bag (can't stand being stuffed in a single..to small) and a fleece liner. I know if can handle freezing weather.
I went to a 3d shoot with a buddy during the day it was inthe 40's but at night it cooled down alot....well I fogot my sleeping bag...ended up having to go to wally world and buy the fleece liner...I've used it inside my bag and it's keeps me very warm in cool temps....just not sure what a canvas tent has over a regular tent...I guess the canvas can keep the warmth in better.....do canvas tents have floors?
I'm not much worried about packing anything as I can drive right up to my campsite, and I'm way to fat right now to hike anywhere...I do have some small one man tents I use when I travel on the motorcycle. But those things are so small if you fart it inflates
If you get snow in your area you'll need to take that into consideration. The weight of snow can accumulate pretty quick and collapse or break a tent that isn't meant for it. Much of the difference in a 4 season backpacking or mountaineering tent is for snow load and the strength to withstand high winds. I've been in tents not meant for strong winds. I was completely surprised that the top of a 5 ft tall tent could be pressed all the way down to my nose as I slept in a low cot.
Guy
I want a kifaru for cold weather camping. There's nothing like them. But man alive they are exspensive!!!!
I've used my timberline nylon tent to well below 0. I used a kerosun heater while I was awake for cooking and heat and shut it off when I went to sleep. Just keep matches handy for the morning light up. Keeps the tent toasty and drys the socks and gaiters out. Once you turn it off the nylon doesn't have much insulative value so it cools off quickly.
I've used the Alakanak to -40 on several occasions. (with the wood heater) We put down a good layer of spruce boughs to pitch the tent on and stacked boughs and hay bails around the perimeter. You just have to remember to stoke the fire every couple of hours. Mostly it's a matter of attitude. If you suck it up and decide to have a good time, you will. Did I get cold? Only in the morning. I just couldn't bring myself to use a honey bucket in the tent.
The canvas didn't seem to offer any more insulative value than the nylon, But it didn't melt quite so easy from a spark. The kerosene heater was very easy to light from inside your sleeping bag, but not near the ambiance of a wood stove.
A good sleeping bag, dry long johns and socks and a pair of slippers in the bag with you makes life much better. I pefer knee high mucklucks for camp slippers so my boots get plenty of time to thaw out and dry.
Enjoy it while you can, you only go around once.
I have an alaknak 12x12 - it has a floor; but there is a zippered part to expose the dirt: to put your wood stove on. I also have dome tents and wall tents.
To me; there are 3 kinds of tents; those you carry into where you will camp; those you haul from the pack animal or truck a few feet and set up.. and can not stand up in; and those you haul in however... and can stand up
in.
I like the kind I can put a woodstove in; and so I can dry out boots and clothes overnight- and with a camp table you can cook inside and just plain enjoy the hunt. And be able to stand up in.
I am the number one fan of tent that lets you stand up and has a woodstove for heating.
If the tent in the picture is the one you have; and you set up a dome tent in it; and do not have a stove- I would suggest a sleeping bag cover.
A good sleeping bag cover is made of canvas; it has a flap that goes from the feet area up to your head area; and goes under the two flaps that cover you. I would suggest that; and a good foam pad. With a sleeping bag in that set up; I have spent comfortable nights in -30 weather.
If you do get a tent with a woodstove; I suggest you find a big ( as big as the stove will hold) rock; and put it on the stove. It will heat up from the woodstove; and keep the tent warm until wakeup time.
I do not suggest putting a woodstove in the tent above; even a gas lantern can eat up the oxygen in a tightly made tent!!!!
In my tent; you will see my sleeping bag and cover ( the foam pad is kept inside the sleeping bag cover) laying on a cot. If you use a cot without a pad; it probably will be a cold night.
But; the cot and pad ( I have used horse pads and blankets with success) and sleeping bag cover: will be the best night you spend in the woods.
Don't put a heater in the tent above!! But really give a serious consideration to a sleeping bag cover; and a thick pad.
A good sleeping bag is made by wiggys ;) !!! The saying dam hot at 40 below isnt far from the truth!
Another little trick with your sleeping bag is, if you have a mummy style bag, don't zip it all the way up to your chin. Leave it undone about six inches. This will stop the bellows effect that you get when you breath and your chest rises and falls. If you have it done right up, breathing will push warm air out and pull cold air in. If you leave it open slightly, you're still covered with the bag but the warm air stays put.
Graham
A neat trick I read about is to put some of the cheap chemical hand warmers inside your sleeping bag if its too cold.
Gil
If you are camping without a heater, make sure your bag is good and also make sure you have a good pad. Do not try to sleep on an inflatable bed or a cot without a pad below you. There will be nothing to keep you from getting cold from below. When you lay down in a sleeping bag, all the insulation on the bottom is compressed rendering it pretty much useless as far as insulation goes. If you don't have a nice pad below you, you are going to have a miserable night no matter how good your bag is.
Growing up we used to camp in the western Md. area during the winter. Some of it near Camp David.
The two most important things we learned were #1 never use a cot. It allows too much cold air underneath. #2 the last thing you should do before tucking in for the night is strip down to your birthday suit put on fresh dry underwear and whatever else you want to wear to bed.
Rusty <><
I use a smaller wall tent in the winter ( 8 by 10 ) and a little air tite wood stove I made. It will hold coals till around midnight and I relode it when I answer the call.
I like a cot but be sure to add a therma rest under your bag for insulation, the therma rest will lay just perfect in the cup of a rolla cot.
I also made a canvas cover for my down bag. A 12oz canvas cover with a zipper down one side adds 5 to 10 degrees to your sleeping bags rating and will protect your expensive bag.
My permanate winter camp has a platic tarp about 6 inches above the canvas wall tent, this lets the snow slide off and never puts a strain on the tent frame. I turn one corner of the tarp back away from the stove chimmney when in camp.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v347/roughcountry/Picture_0611.jpg)
Like a lot of folks said above, cold weather camping is about attitude more than equipment. You don't have to have a better tent than that. I'd recommend a tarp over it though to shed the snow. It won't be super warm but you can definitely make it work.
I sleep pretty cold so I usually keep my long johns and maybe even a flannel shirt on. When it's colder than freezing, I use a mylar blanket on my lower half. Keep it away from your face or you'll soak yourself with condensation. I have a pretty light bag though. Always sleep on top of something. I prefer the Ridgerest foam pads.
Here is my camp setup. I've slept in some pretty cold stuff in this.
(http://residents.bowhunting.net/sticknstring/06elkhunt49.jpg)
(http://residents.bowhunting.net/sticknstring/06elkhunt70.jpg)
My buddy, who is tougher than me, sleeps in that tarp setup in all kinds of weather.
Jeff
In general, for cold weather camping, the size of the tent you will use will be determined by wether you are going to have a heat source in it or not. If you want a large tent so you have room to move around, a canvas cabin tent works well, but you will want a heat source like a wood burner or propain heater, the canvas (at least the sides) are breathable and as mentioned canvas is much less suseptable to sparks than nylon or polyester.
If you will not have a heat source, the smaller the better. Two people in a good quality 4 season 2 person tent will stay much warmer than 2 people in a large tent like the one in your picture. I've done this in temperatures down to almost 0 and haven't had any problems, but I have spent many nights freezing my butt off in a pop up tent camper I used to own.
A few things to think about.
They now make propain heaters with oxygen censers on them that will turn off when there is to much carbon dioxide in the air.
Opps hit the wrong button.
A few more things
A nalgene bottle filled with boiling water stuffed down in your sleeping bag at bed time will keep you warm most of the night.
Don't use a cot without a sleeping pad under it.
When buying a tent, stay away from tents that do not have ground lenth rain flys.
You want your tent breathable and your fly water proof. Condensation should pass through the tent and then condense on the inside of the fly and run down to the ground. The only thing in the tent you want water proof is the floor. A small fly like the one in the picture means that much of the tent is water proof and thus the condensation that accumulates on it will run down and pool inside of the tent.
Some good advice some bad (nylon tents and kerosene heaters spell death if ones not careful).
A true four season nylon tent has a pole system and sometimes foam blocks that keep the fly away from the tent at all times even under heavy snow. This is esential for breathing and ventilation. True four season tent will have design and strenght to withstand heavey wind and snow. What you have there is a two/three season tent at best. It will work however, it will provide a good wind and weather barrier, very little heat retention. If expecting heavy snow I would put a tarp over the area prior to setting up tent. Never sleep in this tent with below freezing temperatures without leaving one or more windows open for ventilation!! Cheap nylon tents do not breath, you sleep in there and the condensation from your breath will rise and freeze without open windows or doors for ventilation, once condensation freezes on material no more air and you will die!!! This happens evry year when those that don't have this knowledge do this. The same thing happens with propane and kerosene heaters. If you use them for short temp heat make sure windows and doors open enough for good ventilation.
Big outfitter tents with wood stove is caddilac in this respect but not always practical or afordable option.
They survive on Everest in good nylon tents! Good sleeping bag and foam sleeping pad the key. Do not use open cell air matress as circulation of air will rob you of heat.
Winter camping really is COOL have a blast!
awesome....great advice...I'm still confused about floors in canvas wall tent...
what about when it rains isn't the floor of your tent now a mud hole from saturation, and water running down hill?
mybe it's something I just have to experience to understand.
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d171/IronBull_/Camp_s_e.jpg)
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d171/IronBull_/Cold_Camp_s_e.jpg)
Wyoming Campin :goldtooth: None Better
Ks_stickbow,
We use a 4x6 piece of plywood and a regular blue tarp for the floor in our 8x10 wall tent. The plywood is next to the door, with a 2' allowance for the woodstove, and the tarp covers the sleeping area. When you have a floorless wall tent you get good at digging drainage ditches in the rain. Sod cloth is worth the added cost.
Zodi Hotvent (http://www.zodi.com/hotvents.html)
If you can zip your tent up all the way and put another tarp over the outside you could probably get by with a Zodi heater. The burner is outside the tent so they are much safer. I have a friend who swears by his. Pricey though.
If your thinking about another tent I'd reccommend the Alaknak. We bought the 12x12. Just make sure you pitch it in the shade during the summer. Makes a fantastic sauna :cool:
is that the same co that make the hot water heaters for showers. looks like the same setup.
I just keep an old piece of carpet for the floor of my tent around my sleeping area. I use to have a 16'x32' two stove army issue. when we set it up the kids in the neighborhood thought the circus was in town..it weighed 300 lbs
QuoteOriginally posted by Noelkman:
Ks_stickbow,
We use a 4x6 piece of plywood and a regular blue tarp for the floor in our 8x10 wall tent. The plywood is next to the door, with a 2' allowance for the woodstove, and the tarp covers the sleeping area. When you have a floorless wall tent you get good at digging drainage ditches in the rain. Sod cloth is worth the added cost.
Zodi Hotvent (http://www.zodi.com/hotvents.html)
If you can zip your tent up all the way and put another tarp over the outside you could probably get by with a Zodi heater. The burner is outside the tent so they are much safer. I have a friend who swears by his. Pricey though.
If your thinking about another tent I'd reccommend the Alaknak. We bought the 12x12. Just make sure you pitch it in the shade during the summer. Makes a fantastic sauna :cool:
that thing looks effective and dangerous at the same time
I have posted this picture of my tent many times. It is a 14x14 pyramid tent with a Cylinder wood stove. I just purchased a Mr. Buddy propane heater with a 11 gal tank.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/tphillips1645/Mytent.jpg)
QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Phillips:
I have posted this picture of my tent many times. It is a 14x14 pyramid tent with a Cylinder wood stove. I just purchased a Mr. Buddy propane heater with a 11 gal tank.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/tphillips1645/Mytent.jpg)
now that looks like a pretty sweet lodge....is it just one pole and a bunch of stakes?
I'm gonna google pyramid tents.....thanks
Good advise given so far, I can't add anything else.
...other than "What are you, nuts?" :clapper:
After a week in AF Artic Survival School, I was broken from any desire to camp in the snow! Cabin's Rock!!!! :biglaugh:
Have fun with it, it's something everyone should do.....once! :biglaugh:
LD
ks_stickbow,
Yes it is a single pole and about 16 stakes.You can also set it up with 2 poles on the outside or if you have an over hanging tree branch with a rope. I purchased this one from Don Strinz out of Nebraska.
With the single pole you can have this tent up in less then 5 minutes.
I have had it so hot inside we had to open the door to cool it off.
We use a Beckel canvas with a wood stove. It has survived near misses from tornadoes falling trees and blizzards and is still in perfect shape. We don't use it anymore because Iowa is just to crowded where the good camping and hunting areas coinside.
A cheap oversized tarp suspended over your tent site(tied off with small bungees)allows you to set up/tear down the tent in inclement weather and also diminishes ozone damage. I have enough excess out the front to allow for cooking outdoors. I use 4 mil black plastic and cut to size for the floor for a tent footprint. The stove port is mounted on the back tent flap. (http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e24/wapiteee/1200.jpg)
I didn't need the stove in the tent the entire time I was out in Colorado this year. I had the stove jack sewn into the back flap instead of the roof to facilitate using the tarp overhead. Some folks likes the stove centered in the tent. (http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e24/wapiteee/1206.jpg)
I've been checking out the outfitter cot/pad from Cabela's and was wondering if the pad would take care of the problems associated with cold air circulating underneath. In Arkansas, our winters are pretty mild, but it does on occasion get down in the 20-30's at night. Not trying to hijack the thread.
Bob
The last time a winter camped I built a leanto on the top of a small hill that was a baldknob ringed by pine trees I built a fire pit and reflector the same length as the leanto facing it of coarse. I cleared all the snow from the hill top and used it to make a wind break 10 feet upwind of the leanto. I used a space blanket as a ground cloth in a ditch like bed I dug out onto of that I put my Cabela's foam pad then a wool blanket then my sleeping and another wool blanket.
I built the fire up with some fairly big logs and it was still burning in the morning and I was more than warm all night. It was just about the best night's sleep I'd ever had.
Just a note about cots. Put all your gear under your cot and I mean pretty much cram it full you can also use fabric around the edge like a bed skirt to keep air from flowing around you like you're in the crisping brawer of you fridge.
Still when it's really cold it's better to oput some insulation under you and sleep right on the floor. 4" memort foam pad I just got with a wool blanket on top would be good enought with your sleeping bag and maybe another wool blanket on top.
Man, you guys are making me cold! I think I will make my camp with a sun umbrela on the beach in Mexico.
QuoteOriginally posted by Starkman:
I've been checking out the outfitter cot/pad from Cabela's and was wondering if the pad would take care of the problems associated with cold air circulating underneath. In Arkansas, our winters are pretty mild, but it does on occasion get down in the 20-30's at night. Not trying to hijack the thread.
Bob
you aint hijacking nuffin we're only a half state away
read the billows tip. I have to double what John is saying. Keep your face out of your bag!!! It's the worst thing you can do for staying dry and warm at nite. You're breathing persperation directly into the bag. As little as you think, you'll be soaked by the morning. 5 days at 25 below, the last nite I tried this in an Army 40 below bag. Put my head in the bag and promptly froze my tush off. That hunt ended after that nite. We had no heater to warm up with other then the pickup truck and what little precious spare fuel we had.
Another bad one is to be in cloths. YOu can use these cloths at nite, however do not wear them in the day! They are wet. Again you dont think they're wet, they are. You'll pay a dear price for it if you get in a bad kinda way.
The ground pad is a good one. The better the pad the warmer you'll be. I also did something similiar on a yearly basis though not as intense as Larry's escaped at the survival school. We had a nite in a bag with nothing more then our ta50, poncho bag etc. Found out real quick a bed of dead rye grass really keeps you warm. If this is not a luxury at hand, spruce bows, or even the big 3 or 4" thick yellow foam is a kick in the pants (and mighty comfortable at that) for staying warm in cold temps. Keep your body OFF THE GROUND! I usually pad the ground with extra cloths or the big heavy duty game bags if I have them at hand. Even if using pillow case's for bags, I'll use them between my matt and the ground. Works like a champ!
But I have to tell you, if you're serious about winter camping, a good bag is where it's at! You cannot without a doubt beat a wiggys bag. They aint cheap, but you'll never replace it! North face is the most over rated bag, Wiggys bags are the most under rated temperature wise.
Definatly some good tips on here.
KS_Stickbow
I have done quite a bit of winter camping and I live in Michigan where winter means WINTER. In addition to backbacking throughout much of north america (including AK), friends and I have welcomed in many New Year's days by camping out. In the Porcupine Mountains of Michigan Upper Penninsula, I have spend many wonderful evenings winter camping. If you want to experience solitude- try camping in the Porkies during December!!!
I've been following this thread since this morning. As with most things, there is no single best answer. It really boils down to what your intent is. If you intend on just being a "manly man" and toughing it out without spending a bunch of money, for a night or two virtually any combination of equipment COULD work. But more than likely, even if if you don't admit it out loud, you're going to have a tolerable experience at best. If you actually desire to ENJOY your winter camping experience, here's the way to do it.
First, make certain that you wear a wicking underlayer of clothing, including socks. Doesn't matter what type as long as it wick moisture away from your skin. Silk, Polypro, etc.,etc.
Second, purchase the absolute BEST goose down sleeping bag you can afford. Make sure that the down is of the high quality, high-loft variety. An outer shell constructed of gortex or some other proven water proof material is recommended. You will not find one of these bags at Wallmart, Mieijer, etc. Go to a speciatly backpacking shop and talk to an experienced camper/backpacker. These days, there are actually a number of synthetic fill fiber materials that are worth considering too. IF YOU INTEND TO SPEND ANY SERIOUS TIME CAMPING DURING THE WINTER MONTHS, YOUR SINGLE BEST INVESTMENT IS A QUALITY SLEEPING BAG (capitalized for emphasis).
In '89 I paid roughly $550 for a Marmot goose-down/gortex sleeping bag. I've used that bag on literally hundreds of occassions and it is just as effective at keeping me dry and warm today as it did 18 years ago. With bags, you get what you pay for. And a good bag is like a good bow- it is something you will appreciate for a lifetime.
Third, it is imperative that you buy a quality sleeping pad. For winter camping, make sure you purchase a FULL length, closed cell, self-inflating, water proof pad, like a Therma Rest. Purchase the extra thick model for winter use.
Fourth, always keep a wool ski-variety hat in your sleeping bag with you. You'll be amazed at how much warmer you'll be sleeping with a hat on.
Fifth, if you can swing it, go out and by a quality four-season low profile tent. For winter camping, you can't beat having a tent with and attached vestibule.
To recap: Wicking underlayer; QUALITY sleeping bag; full length, closed cell, extra thick, self-inflating sleeping pad; wool hat, and lastly, a quality four season tent.
If you'd like to hear a few more practical suggestions, shoot me a PM.
Boy I agree with the wool cap deal; totally forgot about that !! And using a cap allows you to not have to tuck yourself inside the sleeping bag- because if you breathe into the bag; you will end up with moisture; which can freeze and prevent the bag from breathing.
I hope you can see the comments about the importance of a pad; it not only makes the night more comfortable; it keeps the cold from attacking you from below.
And yes- do NOT dress up for sleeping! I don't wear socks; pajamas are ok; but wearing pants and a heavy shirt will not keep you warm - better off laying on your clothes than wearing them. If you notice in Huckleberries excellent advise- he mentions not heavy socks and sleeping clothes- but instead " First, make certain that you wear a wicking underlayer of clothing, including socks. Doesn't matter what type as long as it wicks moisture away from your skin. Silk, Polypro, etc.,etc." RIGHT ON.
You can use a cheaper sleeping bag with a sleeping bag cover; my sleeping bag cover is 10 oz canvas; and I cannot stress how much I like it.
I woke up once after a rain; and there was a pool of water on the sleeping bag cover.. and the rain outside had turned to snow. The bag cover is a purchase you will not regret.
One thing NOT mentioned yet is tent stakes! The plastic ones can crack from hitting even in hot weather let alone cold; and the frozen ground can bend weak stakes. I buy spikes. 10 or 12 inch long and thick ones because they are least likely to bend or break; and you don't need that kind of thing happening while putting up ( or later taking down) a tent on a cold night. Try going to the hardware store for them; and the price will be right. Also- you can use two extra spikes together to pull out stakes when your ready to pull up stakes. With the stake ( spike) in the ground held with two spikes; and a hand on each side- you can pull them out!
Starkman- I am not familiar with the cabelas pad and cot; but a pad that keeps air and is quality should work. Like I said; I have used horse pads with great success; and even my hunting clothes on the cot and under the sleeping bag with success. Certainly a cot alone will not keep you warm! However- once you have slept on a cot with an adequate pad; you will be sold on the idea for sure!
boy I forgot my cap too LOL! If you're bald, GET ONE.
I also if I have the room carry a fleece zip up blanket. My pops carried a wool blanket and still does to this day. We keep them inside the bag, sometimes outside the bag. Makes a great pillow if ya dont need it and if it's too hot you can use it for a bag and sleep on your bag.
Again if room allows.
I can't agree more with Huckleberry about the quality sleeping bag. I'm moving over to the states next month and have pared what I'm bringing with me down to two bags. But one thing I couldn't leave behind was my sleeping bag. I'm actually using it to wrap all my archery kit in. It's a British army arctic issue bag that I was given years ago and I can honestly say I have never had a cold night sleeping in it, even up mountains in Scotland in winter. But all the other advice goes with it, like a good pad and not dressing up to sleep. If I had to get out quick in the night it wouldn't be a pretty sight, cos all I wear is a pair of underpants and a woolly hat.
Graham
It's amazing how much hard earned knowledge is packed into this Tradgang website! In this one thread, a person can learn what it took me many years of trial and error (not to mention freezing my butt off) to learn.
A couple of little things I can add:
Plan your camp site carefully. Getting out of the prevailing winds can go a long way towards keeping warm.
Fleece pants, jacket, neck gator and a wool hat reserved for wearing only in the sleeping bag. (Keep them dry)
I make an insulated ground cover by taking foam sleeping pads; stitch them together w/ parachute cord and cut it to the shape of my tent floor. This combined with my therma-rest sleeping pad in the tent keeps me protected from the frozen ground.
If possible, hang a tarp over the tent for rain/snow/wind protection. It also allows you to open up the tent a bit to allow for ventilation.
-Dan
The biggest problem with tents in winter is that the snow load will collapse them.. People like the canvas tents because they are roomy and warm. If you are car camping then weight aint a factor. My choice here is a canvas wall tent.
When I winter camp I use a North Face VE 25 , and a -30 bag. A sleeping pad is a must also, I use a therma rest. But then the camping I do is off of sno-machines, sno-shoes, etc and I am looking for compact gear..
Ok so I have been looking around town at some used wall tents...most seem to be old army issue or army surplus stuff...the canvas seems very heavy duty, but they all seem to have a musty smell to them....even non military surplus ones from guys who say they have used and taken care of them....is that smell inherant to canvas wall tents and is it normal or should I pass...some have looked good as far size, and conditiona (except for the musty smell) and one even comes with a barrel stove.
what do ya'll think?
I haven't read all four pages so if this was brought up, I apoligize for repeating it.
A few years back I found a small very light weight liner called a Silky Sack. It is pure silk and adds about 20-30 degrees to your sleeping bag rating. Rolls up in a ball about the size of my fist.
Jeff
One tent design that I've been looking hard at is called a campfire tent by the late canoe great Bill Mason. Very versitile design that could be used for cold weather as well as summer and fall.
Would not be one for going in on your back.
There are drawings and plans in the Mason book Song of The Paddle for building your own. By my figures it would cost around 150.00 to build using the best treated Sunforger canvas. It can be used with or without a stove and has 6 ft of head room.
About the same cost as using the same material to build a Cowboy Range Tipi, but looks to be a little more airy in warm weather.
Tim, where di dyou find this? I'd be interested in it for sure. Might do a dec 1 caribou hunt...dec 1 in alaska is one cold ........ ;)
A four season tent is made to withstand the weight of snow on it. I have been using an Alaskan Guide from Cabelas for the last five-or-so seasons, and like it very much. I use a Mr.Buddy heater, which is safe for indoor use. I also will burn a propane lantern, which provides a lot of heat.
An air mattress keeps me off the ground and puts a layer of insulation under me. I use good sleeping bags that I bought twenty years ago, and a couple of sheepskins inside the bags for when it gets really cold. I camp in temps from sixty Farenheit to fifteen below zero, and while I do notice that it has gotten a might hard and frosty out there, I am still right comfortable at it.
Killdeer
Tarp over a light tent traps heat. Get yourself off the ground when you sleep. Nothing sucks the heat out of you like cold ground. I don't care how good your bag is. Wool wool wool!!! I like to line my bag with a wool blanket for extreme weather and wear some wool socks/clothes.
I don't own one, but it would be hard to imagine a better tent in winter than a Tipi
Great thread so far.
I'll echo to "get a good bag" suggestion and add one more tip.
Add any additional layers "inside" your bag, not on top of it.
A good quality goose down bag is as good as it is because it provides lots of loft. Loft = insulation. The other biggest advantage of down for backpackers is its copressability.
A down bag can be compressed into a much smaller space than an similarly rated synthetic bag.
The bad part is that is that anything on top of the bag, like blanket, will compress the bag quite a bit and since the blanket probably doesn't have the same insulation value that the amount of down that it displaces, you'll acctualy be going backwards.
If you want to add insulation value to your bag, a silk or fleese bag liner is the way to go.
I agree with the "don't breath into the bag" suggestioon as well as the stocking cap one, but I sure wish someone could give me a tip on how to keep my nose warm when its not in the bag.
I have a "Campfire" tent from Frost River, it's a great tent and not to heavy as far as canvas goes.
I use it year round.
Fish'n
What size is your tent and does it have the panels for the top flap? If so do you like them?
I'm getting ready to order canvas for my winter project.
The best cold winter tents I've seen are the " Arctic Oven " tents. They are used in and around Yellowknife and are very warm. They are made in Alaska if I remember right too. The web site is alaskatent.com
DQ
Hey Jeff, hows things?
I noticed that you asked a couple times about canvas vs nylon and floors vs no floors. It's been my experience that a lot of canvas tents don't have floors, mostly all nylon ones do.
Nylon tents are more air tight but I don't just mean the fabric itself, I mean that compared to a canvas wall tent with no floor and a ridgepole, a nylon tent is about like sleeping in a plastic bag. The design makes the difference. A floorless canvas tent breathes through the canvas itself, air comes in under the edges a little If you don't have the sod cloth weighted down and if you ever noticed, there is a pretty good sized hole in each end of a wall tent where the ridgepole sticks out that realy ventilates nicely. I think that has a lot to do with the tendency of people to use heaters in canvas tents but not use them much in nylon tents. It just feels safer in a canvas tent and besides, a stove pipe jack is almost a standard feature on a canvas wall tent too.
Like Huntit said, just your breath codensation making an unbroken layer of ice inside a nylon tent can reduce ventilation enough to cause asphyxiation.
If you noticed in the pics, lots of the guys use nylon tarps, leantos of simple design that are open on one or both ends and sometimes all down one side. Just something to keep the dew, rain or snow off you and your gear and a fire right at the entrance provides a bit of warmth. They just scare me a bit to have a fire making sparks next to a nylon anything. Especially a good quality 300 to 500 dollar sleeping bag
As for floors, I love a tent with no floor especially in the winter. If ya think about it, there isn't much mud when winter camping.... no skeeters either. Summer is a different story though. It's wonderful to not have to take your boots off and on to go in and out of a floorless tent. My buddy had a big wall tent with 5 foot walls that was something like 15X19 and we could set it up, put a canvas tarp on the ground in the back half for a floor in the sleeping area and set the cots up on it. Then in the front half we'd leave it bare, toss out a couple camp chairs and set up the stove and kitchen area. We'd be able to go in and out with our boots on, pop in to warm up and have a hot lunch or whatever and at night set around in comfort by the stove. We avoided walking on the ground tarp half of the tent with our boots and it was nice and clean when ya hit the sack or got up in the morning.
It would be pretty cold in the morning if the fire went out but just lighting a lantern and waiting about ten minutes made a huge difference. By the time the bacon and coffee were going over coleman stoves we were shedding layers to stay comfortable.
This was definitely a "drive to where you will camp" type of tent. I'd like to get something smaller say 10X12 or so that was a LITTLE more portable for my own use.
Here's a picture of my 10 by 12 with the six ft porch on. This tent is my oldest and I've used it for 18 years. Being cheap I made the frame from bent up 2" irrigation pipe. The corner brackets are made from square steel tubing and you can cut lodgepole and square the ends for pack trips deep into the hills. No need to carry poles that way, a rope & comealong between a couple trees works ok also.
I built the porch for summer/fall camping to get the kitchen out of the tent. The canvas is three peices so you can elect to use only one wall or none. The roof canvas also doubles as a roof between both my tents set up facing each other. I use one for sleeping and one for a kitchen on extended trips in bad weather.
This tent is my warmest, having a bigger stove and 12 oz. canvas. If I added all the years of use this tent has had, it has been set up right at 4 years. It should go that much more with the same care.
Charlie Lamb and Curtis Keller are pretty fond of this tent in snowy weather :D
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v347/roughcountry/IMG_0489.jpg)
As mentioned, a lot of it has to do with what you're doing. The closer to civilization and horse power dictates what's practical or possible.
That said though, I have to say this Kifaru 4 man tipi (read 2 man) is the best compromise for weight and warmth potential I have ever used anywhere. Its about 5lbs or so (without the stove), sets up easily and can withstand just about anything you have a chance of surviving in. Naturally, the wood stove adds a huge dimension for warmth, comfort and cooking, but adds more weight for back-packing affairs. Although with 2 guys the stove and piping collapse to a packable size as well so the weight load could be shared. The quality is superb.
Two pic's below are from an AK float trip in 2004. The weather was 15-20 degrees and down to zero for most of the time we were out there, which was 6-7 days. The winds kicked up one afternoon to something on the order of 60+ for almost 2hours and ended up blowing spruce down all around us, especially the ones with fire compromised roots. The 2nd pic is the morning after the winds. We were protected to some extent at the base of those trees but the wind was howling enough through there to push over a few, which you can see. The tent was no worse for wear though. I don't think we even re-set any stakes afterwards.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/deerfly/Alaska%202004/eric_at_camp.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/deerfly/Alaska%202004/snowy_camp1.jpg)
In 2006 we took the tipi again but only used it 2 days out of 13. The weather was mild enough to get by with tarps and bags. It was below freezing a few of those nights but as mentioned with decent gear, some woods sense and the right attitude you can get by with very little in the way of gear. For the next trip I doubt we'll have more than a few tarps and personal bivy's sacks for shelter.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/deerfly/Alaska%202006/alaska_2006059.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/deerfly/Alaska%202006/alaska_2006066.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/deerfly/Alaska%202006/alaska_2006106.jpg)