I saw in one of my books a neat little fact. Since 1953, 3000 people have successfully climbed Mt Everest. Only 200 people have done the super slam...LESS than 25 have done it with a bow and arrow. Puts it in perspective for me. Although Im sure there many more people that try Everest than try to complete the Slam but still. Less than 25 in the world. There are 15 million hunters in the US alone. Amazing feat for sure.
Lots of factors in this one.. But yes quite a feat.
I bet there are more people aware of climbing Everest than the super slam.
Believe it or not I bet more are intrigued by climbing Everest. The risk of life or death is the big factor along with $$$
I'd be so bold to say the cost of climbing Everest is not too far out of most people's reach in the $35-55,000 range where completing the superslam which most of us would like to attempt would cost in the hundreds of thousands.
QuoteOriginally posted by Matty:
Lots of factors in this one.. But yes quite a feat.
I bet there are more people aware of climbing Everest than the super slam.
Believe it or not I bet more are intrigued by climbing Everest. The risk of life or death is the big factor along with $$$
I'd be so bold to say the cost of climbing Everest is not too far out of most people's reach in the $35-55,000 range where completing the superslam which most of us would like to attempt would cost in the hundreds of thousands.
I once read that tom Miranda spent $650,000
I think 1 out of 10 who try to Climb Everest DIE while trying. At least that used to be the statistic before Nepal started restricting access to climbing it. They leave your frozen hind-end up on that mountain too.
As for the SUPER SLAM.....it is not even a wisp of a chance for 99.9% of hunters. I'd say you'd be looking at maybe 10 years and the better part of a MILLION dollars to do it. There just aren't that many hunters that have that kind of money to dispose of pursuing game.
It certainly isn't cheap to climb Everest either, but doable for huge numbers of climbers compared to chasing a Super Slam. I'd guess Everest would take a year in planning and acclimating yourself and likely 50K in help and permits, travel and such. You just can't hop on a plane, travel to Nepal, get a hotel and the next day drive to the base of Everest and start climbing and be back in your living room by the weekend.
Nalajr
And only 2... TWO... One, two.. Traditional Bowhunters have taken the 29....
Still only Two ?
Another aspect is, even if I win the lottery, I have no interest in hunting some of the required species.
How about Nathan A. wasn't he really close with a longbow ? I wonder if he will even make it public if he succeeds ?
ChuckC
Yeh Miranda spent a ton of cash to do it as did Chuck Adams. Slam in a recurve or longbow, yes 2 that I am aware of. Can't imagine spending 10K on one hunt and not tagging an animal, and I know the whole experience is a huge part of it, but I can see me trying to explain that to the wife :confused:
Tom Miranda said in a seminar it took over 10 years and just over $300,000 for the super slam. All Bow and all on film. He paid full price to every outfitter.
Fred Eichler did it all with a 54 lb. ( at his draw length) Recurve!
I will gladly settle for my own Slam. My top 10 favorites. 2 down and hopefully another this year. Someday the rest maybe.
You will not find me on Everest personal. No thanks!
In agreement with Mr. Hoyt, make your own slam and do what it takes to complete it.
Jake
I know Fred has done it. Who is the other trad-guy to do it?
It's kinda funny this thread pops up today, earlier I was researching K2 and Karakoram expeditions. I would love to see the view from atop the roof of the world. I
Have always been fascinated by mountains, and mountaineers. The super slam is a great feat but it is easily accomplished with money. You can pay all the money you want, there is no guarantee of making the summit. To me making the summit of Everest, K2, anapurna, broad peak or any of the other 8,000 M peaks is a much greater accomplishment because of the willingness to put your life in the hands of Mother Nature.
Rick Duggan was 1st with a recurve, Fred Eichler, and Nathan Andersohn was first with the longbow.
And all the guys that say they could do it if they had the money and time...couldn't.
Steve O alerted me too my mistake confusing Rick with Dennis Dunn. Dennis is the author of "Barebow!". It is a book about the Slam taken with traditional equipment.
Sorry for the error.
Bow,
"Barebow" is about taking the critters with a compound, no sights. Not trad gear.
ChuckC
I read Tom's book twice and have the DVDs. Yes money is what it takes first. However, I don't believe just anyone could do it after reading his book and Chuck Adams' book. It takes a lot of patience, will power, and guts to pull off. Your average whaitetail hunter like myself would struggle with the physical aspect alone. The mental pressure to get it done is another feat. My respect goes out to anyone who does compound or trad gear.
ChuckC,
Wow, I read the book in the late summer. I had to skim a couple of stories again just to confirm. But yep, a compound was used for most. (He does mention curves and LB interest as well at times).
Guess I was so immersed in the stories I didn't pay attention to the equipment.
Another thing that is odd about the slam is that there are some animals that I just would not care to hunt. Ever.
Muskox comes to mind as one that I would not like. And though a polar bear sounds cool. If you ever read Fred Bear's polar bear hunt story...it sounded like an awful time. Not a challenging hunt...I like that...an awful long, boring sit on the ice is a better description.
To each there own, and I don't want to take away anything from the folks that did it or want to do it. Have at it and enjoy. Best of luck too.
I would rather chase elk in the mountains in the Fall than pursue some of the animals on the list is all.
yeh, I know Chuck and Tom both had one or two hunts they said they would never do again.
All this takes is money, time and then being in the right place at the right time as well.
While its nice to see someone collect these what you usally don't hear are all the particulairs while going through this feat to obtain them.
If you have someone contributing to offset costs is another plus or did they do this all on their own?
There sure are alot of variables just look at what it takes to collect one animal the many things one may have to endure.
Could be a lot I have over 25,000.00 on 6 hunts trying to get an elk. I have talked to guys 1 and done as well as talked to guys that have gone elkless also.
Nothing is easy and theres always a cost and sacrifice as well to.
My hats off to them I'd love to be able to do that but thats not in my relm.
Not sure this is a fair comparison. Give me enough money and I will start on the Slam tomorrow.
Everest no thanks. I'm not capable of climbing at Everest elevations and not many are.
You can start on the slam quest. All kinds of attainable critters are on that list.
It is the ones that require a guide, the ones that require a lot of either luck or time just to meet up with the critter, that make this list tough.
Then, there are the critters that can and will knock you upside down if you piss them off. Can you crawl 20 yards or less from a brown bear and shoot it well ? Not everybody can.
In order to do this, you need money and you need to be driven. Not everybody has enough of either to even try.
What I wonder. . . how many of those that did it, or are very close, did it just to experience the hunt, or was there some other, ulterior motive driving them ( like being first, or the royalties possible for having done such a thing).
ChuckC
To me Chuck, it's not even something I would want to try. I enjoy reading about it, and admire those who have done it, but I have no interest in being in the artic circle at -75 below chasing a critter that could/would eat me. I can't fathom climbing those dangerous slopes to kill those sheep. I couldn't find the balls to crawl 20 yards from a Brown bear and shoot it with a bow. I just don't have that high of a predatory instinct level. A few do, and very few I mean do.
Tommy Hoffman who was either second or third to do it with a bow grew up with my best friend. I have met Tommy several times and he could care less who knows he completed the slam. He has never made a dime over his success bow hunting. Mostly because he has made a fortune owning car washes of all things. Tommy just loves to hunt and at 70 took another great Ram with a bow last year.
I guess we should call the SS something else, or use a code word, so we don't get sued. I just Googled to see names and there is a whole BUNCH of crap being thrown about. Seems after the "thing" was started and done by Chuck, and maybe others, someone copywrited the name and formed another club. You have to register the animals with the club or you do not nave a "thing". So even if you killed them all twice, or in somebody's case, made up the term and completed it first, you can't legally say you did it and won't have your name mentioned in a certain book that came out recently.
WOW I need a bourbon.
I've taken 10 species in my lifetime, six with a bow and three with traditional equipment. I would love to chase grizzly and Dall sheep again, but this time with traditional gear. I've been way closer than 20 yards to grizzlies on many occasions, you just have to smile and enjoy the adrenaline rush and not even consider the possibility of screwing up!
I believe if I had the nards and the cash to go after all 29 of those critters, I wouldn't give a damn what book wouldn't let me in. I'd do it for ME! Isn't hunting about your own personal pursuit and experiencing nature and all her majesty?
Of course there's always going to be some CRUD that has to try and make a buck off of everything. What's the guy or organizations gonna do if you go out and are able to complete the SUPER SLAM and put up a website detailing all hunts and showing your accomplishments? Is he (they) gonna pay a lawyer, march into federal court and spend tens of thousands of dollars to enforce a trademark or something? Yeah right. Wouldn't surprise me if Jackie Bushman was the one behind it.
Whenever there's a great accomplishment to be attempted and completed by many people, there will always be someone standing to the side to try and fleece money out of people in some way or fashion.
Nalajr
I will never even see all 29.
I have felt a little like some here about not being interested in certain animals. The black bear was one such animal until I accepted my best friend's invite to go, after having been invited for several years. I changed my mind about black bears.
The muskox doesn't turn my crank either. I've been around ranched bison quite a lot when I worked with the KS DWP. I'd kill one for the food but the hunt doesn't sound worth what ever it would cost.
I read every mountain climbing book (the 8K meter mountains) I can get my hands on. I love to read about the hardship and accomplishment. I know me well enough that at any cost I could deal with the survival conditions.
A lot of time + a lot of cash = super slam
A lot of time + a lot of cash= Everest
Completing either doesn't make you a great hunter or climber. In many cases it comes down to nothing more than opportunity and resources.
I doubt I'll attempt or complete either BUT I have my own Everest and Super Slam to keep me busy and challenged.
yeh right now my Everest and Super Slam is bare shafting.. :help:
I would love to complete the super slam, just an amazing accomplishment.
It would much less of a financial burden to shoot one of each species (one caribou, one sheep etc) and living in Montana I have a slim chance of drawing a tag for the big ones (sheep and goat)
I also want to catch a monster 20" rainbow on a size 20 dry fly that I tied myself!
IMHO i think you could give all the money needed to it and the time off from work to a dozen guys and maybe 1 or 2 would complete it. It's easy to say you would do it, but think of the elements. Most do not ever experience those environments. Many, including myself don't even camp when hunting. I sleep in a warm king size every night and hot shower and hot meal every time I hunt. I know for a fact 2-3 weeks in the Alaskan bush would not be pleasant. Some of you could do it and have done it, and that is amazing in and of itself whether you tagged out or not. I have read about some of the hunts Mike Mitten has done and geez, that guy is tough as nails. Way more of a man than I am. :thumbsup:
Just traveling to other countries and ethnic areas is often a real problem. If you have never done that, you have no idea the trials.... and that is by air ! try dogsled. . .
ChuckC
Chuck I think the Arctic would do most guys in. And you have to go twice to get it done. There are not too many guys in this world that love bow hunting and adventure as much as Miranda and Adams and both said those were two miserable hunts because of the extreme environment. But your are right, other cultures and ethnicity can pose problems. Im sure those desert big horns or any of the sheep for that matter would be enough to cave the average guy in.
There is currently a 12 yr. old boy in pursuit of the Super Slam. He has 11 of the 29, including a Stone sheep. His goal is to be the youngest to accomplish the feat. His dad is his camera man, and his adventures are being documented on a t.v. show called Young Wild. It's on The Sportsmans Channel.
Since my family situation would prevent such dedication and sacrifice and since all things Ursus scare the hell out of me (as well as flying onto the tundra and lakes the size of postage stamps) I hereby patent the NARN12...
North American Red Neck 12...these I got already, so none of you hardcore NA29 guys better try and steal my thunder :)
1. Whitetail (spike or doe only)
2. Mulie (doe only)
3. Turkey...any.
4. Pronghorn fawn
5. Elk (cow only)
6. Buck rabbitt
7. Opposum
8. Armadillo
9. Bullfrog
10. Grey squirrel
11. Piglet or shoat...no biguns.
12. Raccoon (any sex...dogs allowed)
Beat that! :) By the way, Everest would be cool. I climbed a 14,000 footer in So CO. That was enough. It took 4 sandwhichs and a gallon of Gatorade to get up there. I am hunting mountain goats in BC in Sept. Gonna add them to my NARN12 making it 13 like they did the Tule elk.
the logistics of getting to some of the places where the 14 8,000M peaks are is just insane. Everest is actually one of the "easiest" of the 14 peaks. I was reading that it takes 8 days of trekking from the closest town to even get to K2 base camp!!!! Not to and that doesn't include the months of acclimatization it takes before attempting a summit push. I give all credit in the world to anyone who has accomplished the SS. But guys like Reinhold Messner, and Ed Viesturs are a cut above, I can't imagine what it must be like to weather out a storm at 26,000ft. Talk about being close to Gods Ear.
Monte McDowell (founder of dead down wind) is 5 away and has them all booked for 2015.
Remaing species:
Polar Bear
Musk Ox
Inland Grizzly
Bison
Desert Big Horn
The cheapest Ive seen a desert bighorn hunt listed for was $55,000 and no way to be certain of a harvest.
QuoteOriginally posted by Nala:
As for the SUPER SLAM.....it is not even a wisp of a chance for 99.9% of hunters. I'd say you'd be looking at maybe 10 years and the better part of a MILLION dollars to do it. There just aren't that many hunters that have that kind of money to dispose of pursuing game.
also, there are plenty of others who hunt for reasons other than ticking something of a list.
how many would've hunted a certain species if it hadn't have been on the list but because it was, they did? personally, that's the wrong reason to be hunting.
Apples and oranges. But amazing accomplishments, but I don't think they can't be compared. Both take a lot of time and a boatload of green, but that's about all they have in common.
QuoteOriginally posted by ozy clint:
[/qb]
also, there are plenty of others who hunt for reasons other than ticking something of a list.
how many would've hunted a certain species if it hadn't have been on the list but because it was, they did? personally, that's the wrong reason to be hunting. [/QB][/QUOTE]
What Ozy said x2
"also, there are plenty of others who hunt for reasons other than ticking something of a list.
how many would've hunted a certain species if it hadn't have been on the list but because it was, they did? personally, that's the wrong reason to be hunting."
What Ozy said x2
Its definitely the challenge of hunting and being "successful" in taking all the different varieties.
I would love to be an outdoor writer, and I think completing the slam just gives a guy more things to write about. Would be an amazing experience that's for sure!
I don't know why these accomplishments are even in the same sentence. Both are amazing feats, even if you chose the most expensive guides for either one. People who have never climbed don't really even get to talk about Everest.
The danger alone makes it a whole different ballgame. While hunting grizzly and polar bears may be inherently risky, your odds of actually dying while doing them are near zero. The opposite is true on Everest where you can die even when doing everything right. Everest is certainly considered an "easier" summit by climbers in the know, it is not something that I feel very many people out of 100 could ever complete. High altitude climbing is for the most physically gifted and gutsy people in the world. Bowhunting can be done by nearly anybody after a little bit of practice.
Apples and Pine Cones.
I have to disagree. Anyone certainly can bowhunt, but being successful is a completely different story.
I have no clue what it would take to climb Everest, and I have absolutely no interest in doing so either just for the record.
I agree with Iowa. Sure anyone can bow hunt, but being successful, well let me rephrase that, killing game consistently, is difficult, especially different types of big game. yes practice and experience help, but I believe that there is an element of instinct when it comes to hunting, just like bass fishing. Some are better at reading behavior than others.
QuoteOriginally posted by VA Elite:
yeh right now my Everest and Super Slam is bare shafting.. :help:
LOL! Thanks for the laugh. I was there once.
As in everything in life it is all how you do it. A public land elk hunt is a lot different than the best private ranch elk hunt. Then you have the age factor. Doing a sheep hunt in your thirties is a big difference than doing one in your sixties.
Someone posted above asking who reached the supers slam first with traditional equipment. Well theoretically I would guess they both did!
When the super slam was only 28 animals Rick Duggan completed it before Fred Eichler. When they added the Tule Elk and made it 29 animals Fred Eichler completed it before Rick Duggan.
I really wish there were more shows with trad gear. Even before I switched over I always enjoyed Eichler's Easton Bowhunting. Anyone have a reason why we don't see more trad on tv? Is just not many in the industry doing?
VA I think we are just such a small segment of the archery and outdoor scene that it is hardly worth the effort.
Remember always, it is typically about the money to be made, the instant fame and glory, and not the journey. Not anymore
ChuckC
probably a lot less on film kill opportunities with trad gear I would think. That wouldn't sell to the general bowhunting public.
I have met Rick, Fred and Nathan and they all love to hunt and they are all good hunters. It does take money but it takes more than that. The thing that amazes me is talking to these guys is just like talking to any other down to earth trad guy, they just love to hunt with trad gear. They do have a few more stories than most though. Nathan still has two to go.
Well, there is a lot less gadget use, so you can't say " on this hunt I used X bow, X arrows, X broadheads, X launcher, X release, X binoculars, X rangefinder, X boots, X fart proof clothing, and X underwear".
Without that. . hey, why bother ?
I am making a bit of light hearted fun at them, but that does seem to be an important factor, get the sponsors identified.
I think one of the aspects of trad archers, after a while. . we get kinda cheap and want to do things our selves, our own way.
I use a bow I built, arrows I made, broadheads I sharpened, and in some cases made, plaids, not camo, when I fart, I make sure it is down wind (note to self and everybody else, do NOT fart while wearing waders), yadda yadda.
Not very many sponsors I can claim and it does cost money for the time and effort.
ChuckC
LOL! Chuck that is awesome!
QuoteOriginally posted by H1tman7:
Monte McDowell (founder of dead down wind) is 5 away and has them all booked for 2015.
Remaing species:
Polar Bear
Musk Ox
Inland Grizzly
Bison
Desert Big Horn
What'cha figure all those hunts in 1 year would cost you?
Like someone said earlier...a Desert Bighorn has got to be 50 grand at least. Polar bear....easily another 30G's+, Grizzly is likely near $25K.
Heck that's only 3 and we're up to $105 GRAND!! That's likely on the LOW SIDE too.
Just think about that for a minute.
I'm sorry guys...I might be inthe EXTREME Minority here...but that's ridiculous.
What TV show is it for?
Don't misunderstand, it's awesome that we live in a country where a man can pay damn near 1/4th of a million dollars to hunt 5 animals. Not criticizing that at all.
Hunting today, for the most part, is a wealthy man's game and there ain't no going back.
That genie can't br crammed back into that bottle.
Nalajr
x2 nala.
not to mention the time off work to do all that!
if i won lotto i'd be doing alot of DIY hunting for lots of things. paying for a guide just isn't the 'whole deal' for me. whatever required a guide i most likely wouldn't have any interest in.
I know I should keep my mouth shut, but being the fool I am, I can't. This Super Slam concept strikes me as a long walk down a wrong path. Why are must people hunting? Isn't it for food, species control and recreation? Why is the trophy more important than filling the freezer? Of course we shall be proud of the game we harvest on a good hunt, but pay thousands of dollars to kill a polar bear? That's just wrong.(IMHO)
Sorry if I'm stepping on some toes here, but I just had to express my opinion.
Trond, I don't think you are wrong for saying that. I have no interest any killing lots of animals on that list, with that said, all are legal to hunt for a reason, and who am I to say that reason is wrong? I have my reasons for not wanting to hunt some of those animals and someone could say those are the wrong reasons for not hunting them.
VA, I do not question the reasons as to why these animals are legal to hunt, and I can see we are on the same page there. I just feel sad because hunting is becoming more and more commercialized. In Norway, hunting for bigger animals like moose and deer are becoming a rich mans game. It is actually cheaper to buy a moose-steak in the shop, than to hunt. But enough said. Everybody have their reasons for what they do or don't do, and I am not gonna question it.
No Trond. . . our duty IS to question things that are questionable. But we need to do it in a reasonable manner (unless conditions dictate otherwise).
So many things have happened in our world over the years that might have been different had the masses not said "not my concern".
ChuckC
Trond I agree 100%. We live in a world where a 7 year old can kill a B&C animal with a rifle and then go play in the sand box like nothing happened. Read the article by Gene Wensel " Too Young" over on Brothers of the Bow...it's so true.