I shot yesterday and didn't do to well. I wrote it off, I know it happens. Today was more of the same. Not awful but not consistent. I think I may be over shooting. Fingers are sore, shoulders are sore. I think it's leading to bad form from the first shot to the last. My release is also suffering. As a beginner, how many days or hours should I be shooting? Should I limit myself to x number of shots and call it a day? The last thing I want is to develop bad habits. What say you?
We all go through slumps, both mental and physical.
If your fingers and shoulders are sore, you need to lay off until they feel better.
A mental slump is a little harder to deal with. It can be caused by just getting burned out, by some or several form errors that have crept in without you being aware of it, or by target panic.
If, after you give it a rest until your physical pains go away, you try again and still find yourself in a slump, but you don't feel mentally burned out or like you have a case of the nerves, then you probably have some form errors to work on. It is difficult even for an experienced archer to self-diagnose form errors. Best would be to send in a video of yourself shooting to the form forum, or to sign up for a clinic somewhere. If you're stuck with self-diagnosis, then watch MoeBow's or Jimmy Blackmon's videos on YouTube, get yourself The Masters of the Barebow series, and think about whether you're doing all the good things they're talking about.
In the end, you have to let your own body and mind dictate how much or how often you shoot before you take a break.
I'm no veteran. But if you are sore all over I would take a little break. Also a mistake I made when I first started out was I was over bowed. I don't know how long you have been shooting or how much lbs your shooting but I have know from experience too much bow leads to lots of trouble. Take a couple of days off. Then start slow. A few extremely focused arrows. Good luck!
If you are noticing bad habits, QUIT SHOOTING IMMEDIATELY.
Once the bad habits set in, they are hard to get rid of. Take a day or two off and go give it another try. First draw your bow (without an Arrow on your string) to full draw, hit your anchor and hold steady. Let down gently. Repeat till it becomes a repeatable habit. Then once the basics are covered, put an arrow on your string and do the same EXACT thing. DO NOT shoot the arrow, just have it pointing at a target for safety. When you can consistently reach your anchor and hold while pointing at the target, then work on your release. If you are new to this, just know, it DOES NOT happen over night, and none of us are immune to having issues every now and then. Never give up!!!
Lastly, try to end a practice session with a perfect draw, anchor, release and hit. If it happens to be your 1st shot of the day, or your 100th, it will do wonders for your confidence to stop shooting right then and there and walk away with a smile. Believe me, it works.
When your not tired and hurting, do blank/blind bale shooting only. This way when you do get tired and your hurting from shooting, you'll still be shooting pretty darn good.
I think last thing you want to do starting out is over shoot. You will tire and form will suffer. Then you'll develope bad habits and not even know it until your shooting goes to pot. Then your mind will get to you.
I unfortunately only ever shoot by myself and find myself slowly picking up a bad habit every now and again. It's hard to self diagnose. Take your time and let your muscles develope like you would if working out. You don't hammer legs 7 days a weeks. Others with more experience and better advice have and will chime in, but those are my experiences.
I had the same trouble when I first started.... I would shoot anywhere from 45 minutes 90 minutes. Fingers were on FIRE!!!! I got some good advice on here and dropped back to 30 and under,concentrating on for and release. Everything started coming together and practice time increased just in time for spring and outdoor shooting. Laying off a day or two won't hurt and will give you time to recharge physically and mentally.
Good luck and God bless,
Rodd
thank you gents. my bow is 50# at 28. I pull it to 27. so about 47#. first 2 weeks was a lot of just getting used to that weight. I got used to it somewhat and never felt any pain. Just in the last few days has it started. I think a few days off will be a good start. clear my mind let the body rest. I think fatigue has set in. Im sure some soreness is normal, and i can still shoot, but I wear down faster. I have the barebow dvds coming and I have watched Blackmon several times. I believe from what I watched, my release is the main culprit. But, if Im not good with that and sore, it will lead to bad things. I believe my compound will gone this sunday, there is no turning back for me, i want this as bad as I wanted my college degree, heck, even more. And believe me I wanted that degree and I got it. this forum has been life changing for me. It may sound silly, but the truth is the truth. thanks guys.
Sounds like you should cut back for a few days. Even the guys that live at the gym change their routine each day to rest tired muscles. In a short time if you keep shooting with pain your subconscious will hurt before you draw and shoot. That is another way your form goes south quick.
I just went back to one of your earlier posts and it looks like you are shooting a 50# bow. That's a pretty heavy draw to start out with regardless of how strong you are. Your fingers should not be hurting. If you're drawing with a deep hook and just relaxing for the release, your fingers should flip out of the way. I would bet you are not getting a clean release and the string is rubbing on your finger tips, or you don't have enough protection in the glove/tab.
You may be pushing a bit too hard too. This is supposed to be fun :)
It is a lot of fun. And you maybe right about my release. And I do realize that being strong doesn't matter because it's a different type of muscle use. I believe a 45# would have been better for me to start with, but I started with what the guy at 3 rivers said I should start with. So Im going forward with this bow and Im not struggling to get it back to anchor but it is certainly all the weight I want. Aside from that, my shooting has been good for the most part until the last few days. I will give it a few days rest and go after again. Blade, I would like to hear more about the release. Im not getting a clean release.
I was obsessed with shooting and the worse I shot the more I shot trying to get it right. I caught myself reinforcing bad habits. I slowed down, shot one arrow at a time and concentrated on doing everything right on each and every shot.
Also shooting a traditional bow is a lot like weight lifting. You need recovery time in between sessions. We are using different muscles from our compound days.
I would suggest you take a look at Arne's tutorial on You Tube. It sure helped me. I was trying to hold on the finger tips, which kept my hand cramped and I couldn't relax it fast enough for my fingers to get out of the way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7N3gJePX4I
I know this suggestion is likely to fall on deaf ears but I will make it anyway...pick up an inexpensive left handed bow and do some shooting that way...it does not even matter how well you shoot lefty
DDave
I can't add anything more to what's already been said. Take a break and come back after things are feeling back to normal.
VA Elite
when I first started trad I shot 35# after awhile I went to 50# I never could hit well with it when I was able to pull it back lol. I got seriously discouraged so I decided ide quit shooting and just work on building those muscles for about 2 months. When I finally got to where I could draw anchor and hold for as long as I needed without shaking my accuracy went through the roof. If your shooting all the time and your accuracy drops off just quit sit inside and work on building your strength. Do bow exercises give it 2 or 3 days then get back at it. When I have bad days and can't consistently group my arrows I just quit and think about not shooting I think about what I can do to make a stronger arrow or sit and wonder what I can do to make arrows easier to find. You will get consistently better with time and conditioning no doubt about it...don't over think it you will have more fun and it can drive you crazy !!
It's humbling isn't it ! My older son is 5' 7", he weighs in @ 145-150, he can snatch two 88# kettle bells and swings a 106 #der, he does get ups with a 70 #der. He can't hold my 50# Stewart bow back longer than me before he starts to tremble ! This is why form is so important.
You can shoot at targets or you can engrain good form (muscle memory) but you can't do both. So it's either 6 weeks of blank bale shooting or its chasing good form for the rest of your shooting years, pick your poison.
Oopsy, double post!
I will be ok, I will give it a few days rest. I will seek some help on my release and warm up before shooting. I have neglected this part of my routine.
Yup, VA, they happen. Just get past them. You are gonna find that shooting instinctive is a huge head game, and if you cannot be 100% in the game, you might as well sit the sidelines for a day or two.
CHuckC
And that's why I began this process in Jan, long before deer season. I want to be as accurate and deadly as I can be come Oct.. I know it will take time and practice... thanks Chuck, as always, you are encouraging and helpful
Everyone is giving great advice. Archery is almost all mental... 1 thing that helps me when my form or mental game is off is to only shoot perfect shots, if everything isnt perfect i let down the arrow. This can be frustrating because sometimes it might take 30 minutes to shoot 15 arrows but refuse to let yourself shoot a poor shot (form). For me this has been very hard but extremely rewarding and before you know it you will be shooting better then you ever thought you could.
2bird, I like that a lot. I will try this.
I love to shoot, but rarely shoot for more than half an hour. More often fifteen minutes. I will shoot often 15 or 20 arrows and call it quits. I have been shooting for a lot of years, so I don't have the new love drive, but I still think it is better to shoot fewer arrows. If I want to shoot more I might shoot three or four times during the day if it is a weekend. It is hard to keep mental focus for an extended time. This degrades my groups, and then my confidence. Slow down and enjoy the process, and you might find you will actually progress faster by shooting less.
I love to shoot as well. I rarely shoot more than a couple dozen shots at a time.
Sometimes I experience less than what I'm looking for in terms of results. I stop shooting arrows. I stop shooting because I'm not performing my process properly. I whip out my non-elastic "String Bow" and remind myself what a proper shot is supposed to feel like.
A DVD called "Beyond NASP" by an Olympic archer coach explains the string bow. It would cost about .05 to make one. I'd tell you where to get it but I'd be in danger of referring too much to non-tradgang sponsors.
Your frame of mind is important. When something seems awry think, "what must I do better" instead of what most people think, "what am I doing wrong". By the way, from time to time I've written here that however one shoots is okay...until its not. You are experiencing some of the "not" episodes.
If you know what your are looking for it can be very helpful to video yourself -- phones these days work great.
VA. new folks often get caught up on the deer hunt thing. Don't get boggled by the self fed need to shoot well at yardage before you hunt. Hunt experience is important too.
My rule. . if you can shoot well at only 5 yards, go hunt, but keep your shots to 5 yards.
You CAN do that by using your brain and arranging for being in a certain spot with the deer being within your range.
Obviously, more than 5 yards is better and you will have more shot op's. But go. Just know your limitations.
CHuckC
QuoteI think last thing you want to do starting out is over shoot. You will tire and form will suffer. Then you'll develope bad habits and not even know it until your shooting goes to pot. Then your mind will get to you.
I unfortunately only ever shoot by myself and find myself slowly picking up a bad habit every now and again. It's hard to self diagnose. Take your time and let your muscles develope like you would if working out. You don't hammer legs 7 days a weeks. Others with more experience and better advice have and will chime in, but those are my experiences.
X2
I've Taken as long as 6 month off, training is the best answer, correct building up of the core muscles and shoot at a blank target only working on form at first. Take your time most guys think they should pick a traditional bow up and shoot like they did with a compound "really" come on man LOL.
It's a whole different muscle group, take the time to train those muscles that are now the new muscle group that you are using. If you practice until you are tire without practicing bad form that is the tricky part, how can you know? Find an experienced traditional archer and have him work with you. If that is not an option do like I did and film your practice.
This is the sequence most traditional archers follow.
:banghead: :banghead:
:laughing: :archer2:
Hey VA,
I remember starting out with 47#, probably closer to 44# at my draw and it seemed hard for a awhile but once I mastered it I went to a 50# bow and it seemed hard but after years of shooting I can shoot almost any bow up to 60+ # accurately at least a few shots without a lot of practice.
I agree with the others that if you are sore you should back off until that goes away. A trick I use to optimize my shooting time but not over do it is to shoot only 3 arrows at a time and broadheads I only shoot one but that is to keep from damaging my fletching. With only 3 arrows you get a little rest while going to pull them so you can spend a good amount of time shooting before you get tired. Know when you are tired and stop then don't push past that point and you will be fine.
I didnt become ambi-archerous on purpose, but now I shoot both ways and ,like DDave suggested, changing over on a fairly regular basis has proven surprisingly helpful for identifying form issues, especially release issues: its like one side of your body immediately recognizes what the other side is doing wrong. It also gives the muscles a day or 2 off . As others have mentioned, I also moved to a deeper hook and that is a lot easier on the hand and wrist.