For you guys using wood arrows, do you find them significantly more difficult to work with regarding tuning them to the bow? Do you find them to be durable enough to endure the amount of practice needed to remain proficient with the bow?
And finally....is there any real benefit to using wood arrows aside from the nostalgia/art aspect?
I've been building and shooting wood arrows for about 30 years. Used to get beautiful cedar shafts, they were straight and durable as long as you didn't slam them into something hard... rock, hard stump.
I've been using douglas fir ever since the early 90's...first with shafts I made myself and now with shafts I get from Surewood Shafts.
I still have quite a few POC in my stash, and will probably build them into arrows some day...but the quality just isn't quite as nice as the premium shafts I get from Surewood.
If you slam a doug fir arrow into a rock, it's going to break just as easily as a cedar. But these days I just prefer the looks and quality of the douglas fir for arrows.
I have some POC arrows that I have been shooting for a year now. The only shooting I don't do with them is a
flying targets. If I break an arrow all I do is foot it. They can be fooed on both ends and this helps bring up the weight also.
I edited my original post...I should have just said WOOD arrows....rather than Cedar.
I'm considering moving to wood arrows from carbons mostly because I think it would be something fun for me and my daughter to do together and it wil teach both of us a valuable skill. It's certainly lighter on the check book too once you get through the initial investment. But I haven't totally decided yet. Thanks for starting this thread. I'll be reading it to see what more experienced trad guys have to say on the matter.
And for the record, I did manage to break a carbon yesterday. First shot of the day and for some reason I aimed it instead of focusing on the target. Skipped off the side of the target and flew into my grill and broke in two. The grill was wounded so I had to shoot it and put it out of its misery lol
The best advice I can give, based on personal experience, is get a test kit. Seeing your bow in your signature line is 40#@25, and considering that your DL may grow in time, I'd get a test kit ranging from 35-40 to the 50-55 range, three arrows each range.
35-40 - 3
40-45 - 3
45-50 - 3
50-55 - 3
Get them in a length you know will work if your DL increases, say 26.5" bop or even 27" with 125gr points installed. Maybe even a tad more.
Then you're set for new bows you may end up purchasing up to about 50lbs.
Not exact, but it gives you peace of mind if you shoot your 40-45 arrow from your 40@25 bow with great results, then just order a set in that range, or build them yourself.
QuoteOriginally posted by Bud B.:
The best advice I can give, based on personal experience, is get a test kit. Seeing your bow in your signature line is 40#@25, and considering that your DL may grow in time, I'd get a test kit ranging from 35-40 to the 50-55 range, three arrows each range.
35-40 - 3
40-45 - 3
45-50 - 3
50-55 - 3
Get them in a length you know will work if your DL increases, say 26.5" bop or even 27" with 125gr points installed. Maybe even a tad more.
Then you're set for new bows you may end up purchasing up to about 50lbs.
Not exact, but it gives you peace of mind if you shoot your 40-45 arrow from your 40@25 bow with great results, then just order a set in that range, or build them yourself.
Good stuff!! Good advice.....
Did you notice I have two bows in my sig line??
You should find you REAL draw length first and determine the spine you need. if you decide to leave them longer than an 1 in over you draw length that has to be factored in as well. With wood spine is more important for tuning than weight.
I would call Surewood or Rose City and as for help.
Nope..then go one more step in spine and go 2 arrows each group. That widow might even need a 60-65 couple of arrows.
And 25" is exceptionally short for DL. Make sue if it grows, your test kit will be useful to you and others. If you get a real short test kit and decide later to sell it, selling 26" long arrows or thereabouts is tough.
When you destroy a wood arrow on a rock, you will feel less pain than when you have destroyed a carbon! Having shot arrows of just about every material available, I'll say that IMO, wood is easiest to tune assuming that you start in the right spine neighborhood.
I used stew's spine calculator to compare my well tuned arrows to his calculators recommended shafts and they matched up perfectly. Subsequently I built three bows for family members along with sets of wood arrows matched sole with his calculator and they flew perfectly for all three recipients.
Ok...so I'm seeing some comments about my short draw length. Do you folks think that's been measured incorrectly or are you thinking I'm inexperienced enough that it's going to change with time? I typically hold the bow the same way for every shot and I anchor the tip of my index finger at the corner of my mouth. Measurement was done from the front of the riser to the nock of the arrow. Wrong??
One of the biggest advantages of wood shafts for us short draw folks is that you can get your arrows to fly without having a ridiculous amount of extra shaft length. I use back quivers and those extra long shafts are a total pain for handling, getting out of the quiver and hanging up because they stick out of the quiver so far. Wood comes in any spine you want and can be used as short as you want. I find that getting your wood arrows matched so you can use the shortest possible length will be the easiest to use, the most forgiving and the most predictable when building your next set of arrows. Having multiple inches of arrow out in front of the bow is a variable that seems different with every bow. I have not had any problems with Wapiti Premiums or with Surewoods. it pays to order all shafts by phone and it does not hurt to let them know that you are new to arrow building and fussy for the results. Doug firs will get you a heavier arrow, but with some bows the fast recovery time of cedar is just the right thing. Don't worry about bare shafting, just fletch them with plenty of offset,(as long as the quills are flat). With some bows and fletching jigs rotating the nock can be helpful so the bottom hen does not sit straight down. For some fletching with the cock feather in works best, for that all you would need to do is start with the nock index down for the cock feather.
If you have a variety of aluminum arrows, I wouldn't bother with a wood arrow test kit. This is because they have consistent spines that can be converted to wood arrow spine. When I get a bow I want to shoot wood with, I tune with aluminum and then convert to wood. For example, If the bow tunes with a 29" 2117 (77 lb spine)that tunes well with 200 grain total point weight (broad-head and adapter), you can be confident that a 77 lb spine wood shaft with a 200 grain point will tune well at close to 29 inches length. Three rivers has a chart of aluminum spines on their website. I haven't found converting spines of carbons to wood to be as predictable. As always in traditional archery, your results may vary.
In regards to your draw length question, your arm holding the string should be pulled into a strait line with the arrow, if not you are under drawing. When you say front of the bow, do you mean the side you can't see when you when drawing? That's the side you should measure to for arrow length.
AS far as advantages of wood arrows, the only ones I see are you get to make them and they look better. Disadvantages are they are less durable, but you get to make more that way. They perform just as good as aluminum and carbon if properly tuned.
JDow3
" And for the record, I did manage to break a carbon yesterday. First shot of the day and for some reason I aimed it instead of focusing on the target. Skipped off the side of the target and flew into my grill and broke in two. The grill was wounded so I had to shoot it and put it out of its misery lol "
At least you won't have to grill it up to eat it :biglaugh:
Tuning a wood arrow to your setup is not all the tough. Certainly not any harder than carbons. If you get good quality shafts (Surewood Shafts douglas fir) you will a shaft that will make a good arrow and will hold up well. You will notice that wood will be more quiet coming off your bow if it is a good match in spine and built properly.
"Wood is good".
QuoteOriginally posted by snag:
Tuning a wood arrow to your setup is not all the tough. Certainly not any harder than carbons. If you get good quality shafts (Surewood Shafts douglas fir) you will a shaft that will make a good arrow and will hold up well. You will notice that wood will be more quiet coming off your bow if it is a good match in spine and built properly.
"Wood is good".
Yes wood is good :thumbsup: I like Surewood shafts and also Ramin from Twig archery.
A good tuned doug fir arrow will be the quietest thing you could shoot out of your bow...and once you get em tuned right nothing looks so pretty flying thru the air ...
as a wood arrow you made.
Just wait till you kill your first deer with one.
I do not think they are more difficult to tune, just different.
I got into carbon shafts specifically because of the poor quality wood shafts I was getting.
I suggest Surewood shafts, they are the best quality shafts I have bought lately.
Also, wood shafts do not need foc for penetration. In fact, I have found wood shafts do not respond to high foc very well.
If comparing costs, wood arrows are more expensive if you factor in the time.
I like them both and will continue to use both.
I shoot wood and carbon. My favorite is wood. Just seems easier as the weight I want is there without adding inserts and whatever. When you get the right spine and point weight, they fly beautifully, and in my opinion quieter
See Surewood Steve's signature...and if you still don't get it, ask an old fly-fisherman why they don't just use worms...
Since when is ease, and convenience the compass by which to do anything that has real substance?
Wood is Good...
I made my first set of wood arrows this year. I found them to be less forgiving in the spine department than carbon. I have already broken two (metal crossbar on my old glendel deer target). I have also lost a couple carbons recently, but I had shot them daily for over a year with much abuse from other arrows and the same metal crossbar before they finally had to be put into the trash.
I like the surewood shafts, and they are quiet coming off the bow. It is certainly worth experimenting with. Don't go crazy with the first set in terms of paint and cresting and all the equipment required for that. Start simple, see if you like them. add to the building equipment if you decide to stay with it.
What a bunch of non-sense with the draw length. There are plenty of guys and gals with 25" or even less draw length. Myself included at 25"-25.5" dependent on clothing bulk. If someone sheds the money for custom bows made for his draw length, it is usually right.Not everyone is 6'-2" with 30" draw length.
Now, the advantage with wood is, that it comes in all spine weights, it just needs to be sorted. Carbons usually differ 15# and then you play with length and point weight. But plenty of times this will not yield the combo you really desire. A proper wood arrow is usually more quiet and flies just as good as carbon or aluminium.
With wood arrows,also always start out with full length, cut down yourself as needed depending on how it shoots.