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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Stu on October 02, 2007, 08:57:00 PM
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I just got back from my camp in Ontario, the grouse (mostly ruffed, but also spruce) are there. I hunted 'em with a shotgun, but enjoyed it more with my bow. My question: I took my first one with a Judo tip (2016 arrow, 50# 'curve), aiming for the head, which is where I hit him. I should add it was a spruce grouse, not a terribly challenging game animal, though delicious. Anyway, after seeing the damage that did to the head/neck area, I aimed for the head on all my shots, just missing or taking a few feathers off the next few (all ruffed grouse after that). I was afraid to target much lower for fear I'd tear up the breast meat. So this caused some very excited ruffs to shoot depart in a real hurry. One shot was so near-perfect that I think I missed him only because he started to "spring" right as the arrow reached him. Honest!
Grouse hunters: Judo's OK for body shots, or should I get try something else? I really like the Judo's cause they shoot well & I can find 'em after the shot. Thanks,
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I use judos all the time except for blues. They are just to big so I use the Magnus small game head with the razor on it. Works good if I get a shot. Blues are hard to get close on and you still have to run and grab them or they will fly with your arrow.
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NO JUDOS FOR BODYS!
Use a 357 case, grind the extractor rim off, and slide a large htm blunt over it.
If you shoot a judo or a regular rubber blunt at them, they will bounc off and you WILL loose birds!
Up until a buddy showed me this, I used field points, they work and work well,
Now I use a wrecking ball and it's devastating. Doesnt tear up meat either, a win win situation.
The hex blunts do work, but it managled the grouse I have shot with it badly!
I'd stay away from snaro's.
If there are no dogs present, cheap bodkins if you can find them would be another option though plan on loosing some arrows stuck in trees ;) . I prefer to line the bird up with the tree instead of launching an arrow forever through the woods, flu flu or not.
For the 10 of the last 12 years I'd spend MOST of my season just chasing grouse. This is what I've found to work the best for me, your mileage may vary but I doubt it!
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I've used judos on spruce and ruffed grouse for years. Usually shoot for the head though. Try to get a going away shot and shoot for the base of the neck. A little low won't wreck much meat. A little high gets it in the head or neck. I agree that big blues are tough to kill and stop quickly with body shots. Hit in the body, they'll often make it airborn with the arrow.
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Well not trying to brag on anyone, buuuuut we were setting in the camp house when we were caribou hunting in Quebec. Jokingly we suggested to Bob Walker that if he was going to hunt grouse with his judo point that he needs to shoot them in the head. Few mins. later in walks Bob with a headless grouse and he got us back by saying, you mean shoot'em here, like this? Alot of grouse were taken and all I believe with judos.
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Blues are definitely a big and tough bird to bag, but a judo to the head/neck will usually do the trick.
Over the years, I've had many more close misses than hits (which is still fun also). :D
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d108/lwscott/BBBB-GROUSE.jpg)
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I shot a ruffled grouse last week with a judo, and it does tend to be pretty hard on the meat if you don't hit them in the head. Maybe I will try with some blunts
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My grouse hunting is very limited, but on that one trip we (3 of us) shot birds with judo's, steel blunts, rubber blunts (no case added like Dan's "wrecking ball), and Ace hex blunts. Birds were lost with every one except the hex blunts. They do tear up some meat, but they brought the birds down with even marginal body hits.
If you can consistently hit a grouse in the head, you are way better than me--any head except a regular rubber blunt (almost lost a head shot bird with a rubber blunt) should work just fine.
We kept hearing about how stupid these birds are (let you get right on top of them), and we were able to get close to some, but after the locals chased them with shotguns for a few days they got real spooky real quick.
Chad
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I've shot of bunch of these guys up in Idaho. We use steel blunts, ace hex blunts, rubber blunts, broadheads, judos, and tiger claws. The best that I have found is the steel blunts and hex blunts. Does less damage to the meat. They are a lot of fun to hunt, I could take a whole trip and do nothing but that.
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I've used steel blunts or field tips with a scorpio, and judo's for years. I keep telling myself I should try the Magnus small game head one of these days. That would seem to be (for me) the perfect all purpose head.
Yup blues can be tough on body shots. I once hit a blue grouse from no more then 10 feet with a steel blunt. The arrow knocked him right off the branch he was sitting on. To my suprise he just got up and flew away like nothing happened. :eek:
The worst shot for the meat or the kill, is a body shot to the breast. I have done better hitting them from the side or back and of course the head. But they make for a fun day of bowhunting and have embarressed me many times when I miss.
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Thanks for all the tips, guys. I think I'll just keep hunting them with the Judos, aiming for the head & neck. Could try the others but seems Judos can work OK, just not for body shots. Judos also allow me to try some tree shots w/o loosing my arrow (if I'm careful to pick a thick background), even w/o flu-flus.
I do like the going away shots too, but in the woods (vs. the side of a trail), they often stay sideways as I approach and will spring from that position & take off. I read their comfort zone is 15-20 yards approach, that's about right. I should probably aim just a hair in or down from the head on those shots. On the trails they often turn and walk or run away into the bush.
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I used to use judos but switched to Ace hex instead and am glad I did. If you have one under the lower branches of a tree which is a frequent occurance, the judos will rarely make in through to the grouse but the hex heads usually will.
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I pretty much agree with AKDan. I gave up on judos as they were not that effective and I didn't like the cost especially compared to the alternatives.
I use blunts of various types including shell casings. I cut down my rifle casings to fit (30-30,30-06 & 308 fit a shaft nicely)I like using 45-70 cases as they provide a bigger blunt but do require more work to fit it then the other sizes. I usually add lead weight (either molten lead or fishing shot)to the casings as well as to the rubber blunts (or use them as Dan does & hex heads which I use occassionally. Added weight makes a big difference. I go with the heavy arrow theory and the tip gets that weight.
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I have shot at least 100 grouse with my bow, from Franklin grouse to big Blue grouse. Using from Field tips to broadheads to rubber blunts (including .357 brass). I have never lost a single grouse shot with a rubber blunt and a 65 lb bow. I lost most every arrow I shot using broadheads and field points. Judo's would only kill about 30-40% of blue grouse. 357 brass once helped me pluck a blue grouse bare of feathers, and when I was sure he was so bald he could no longer fly, I tried to catch him and he flew off none the worse for wear (after being hit at least 10-15 times).
For my money nothing has compared to the rubber blunt. I have not tried hex blunts, however. I think you can get away with a variety of tips on the smaller grouse, but if you are considering blue grouse, I'd go with the HTM.
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Rubber blunts...I cut my bow teeth on these too many years ago to count. I may even still have some around. Maybe they'd deliver the "body shot" I'm looking for. But I'm not shooting a 60# bow any more, but a 50# (though it's pretty darned fast, to my eye).
I'll see what I can dig up around here, but the grouse are probably bout done for this year for me with a bow. I'm back in MI where they hardly present an opportunity for a shotgun where I hunt, much less a bow. Too spooky.
Thanks to all.
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Stu,
I think you'll be fine with the blunt as long as you run the case inside. It's not the same head otherwise.
I'm also shooting a 60lb bow, have shot up to a 64lb bob lee and have had similar results with all.
Did well with the field points, did ok with broadheads. Got the wrecking ball advice and was truely amazed at what it did!
Try a broadside hit with those judos or straight rubbers once and you'll start loosing birds! Hittem with that case inside and you'll bowlem over.
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Like I said, my grouse hunting is limited, but I did see a spruce grouse take a solid hit to the chest (so solid the arrow actually bounced back a little), from about 15 feet. The bird fell maybe 3 feet, then flew to the top of a tall tree. Another arrow was shot, it missed, and the bird flew away. I was floored--the arrow that hit was shot from a 65# bow and weighed over 600 grains. That bird probably died, but we didn't see it happen.
If I ever go grouse hunting again (sure hope to) I won't ever consider using just a regular rubber blunt. We also lost birds due to marginal shots with regular steel blunts and judos. Every bird that was hit with a hex-head blunt went down--convinced me.
Chad
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Shot a ruff in the back and pinned him to the groung this year in WY...by 1st grouse....then I shot one that flew off a log with a Wensel Woodsman that was dead when he hit the ground.
I'm sure either will work, but I really like the modified Wensel Woodsman's for small game.
Wensel Woodsman Small Game mods (http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000055)
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I've had success with Judos and also a large fender washer screwed on behind a field point. They really pack a whallop.
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Ryan,
My problem with it all isnt nessicarly what works...it's what works from keeping the blasted things from flying off never to be found again. There are very few heads listed here that keep this from happening. It can happen with any head, but is greatly reduced with only a few!
Btw Terry,
That wrecking ball is wicked nasty on rabbits. The straight larget HTMs is more then plenty. Shootem in the head and it's nothing short of amazing. I stopped hunting hares up here as I never could find a way to eatem. But man alive they were fun to hunt and those blunts did a number!
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I got a bunch of MA3 seconds last year and cut em back 1/2 inch with a dremmel tool. A little sharpening and mount to a flu flu and they are a deadly accurate combo for small game. We only took one grouse with them. (poor shooting on our part) But the practice session showed them to be just what we wanted.
Rusty is going to hunt rabbits in Texas with them this winter.
Mike
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How about some pics of these setups?
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What is a wrecking ball?
My problem with lost grouse is that they weren't solidly hit. They are a pretty small target once you get past all the feathers.
I'm hesitant to use old broadheads because of their tendency to skip and glance off the ground resulting in lost arrows.
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"I think you'll be fine with the blunt as long as you run the case inside. It's not the same head otherwise."
Do you mean the rubber blunt with the .357 case inside? I can do that.
Is that a "wrecking ball"? I'll do a search here after I exit. Thanks again,
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Originally posted by LBR:
Like I said, my grouse hunting is limited, but I did see a spruce grouse take a solid hit to the chest (so solid the arrow actually bounced back a little), from about 15 feet. The bird fell maybe 3 feet, then flew to the top of a tall tree. Another arrow was shot, it missed, and the bird flew away. I was floored--the arrow that hit was shot from a 65# bow and weighed over 600 grains. That bird probably died, but we didn't see it happen.
If I ever go grouse hunting again (sure hope to) I won't ever consider using just a regular rubber blunt. We also lost birds due to marginal shots with regular steel blunts and judos. Every bird that was hit with a hex-head blunt went down--convinced me.
Chad
My limited experience pretty much mirrors Chad's. Last year in Ontario I shot a bunch of grouse with Ace Hex Heads. One day I got the itch to try hunting them with regular steel blunts. After having to run down a few grouse, I switched right back to Hex Heads.
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I have only shot pheasants. I've had Ace Hex Blunts, regualr blunts, and Judos bounce off them. Feathers are an INCREDIBLE shock absorber. This is why you don't shoot turkeys in the body with a shotgun!
I won't used a broadhead because dogs are involved.
I have found a field point with a zwickey scorpio to be the best. No bird is flying away with a 30" arrow sticking out of him.
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The only thing I use is a big old 2 blade BH like a tusker Aztec.
I have not lost one since I started using a Flu Flu tiped with broadheads.
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Pete,
YOu dont have issues zipping right through and having them fly off? Had that happen a couple of times...not to mention bh's aint cheap!
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There has been some good advice said already, my hunting camp has shot quite a few grouse and here are our conclusions.
1) The grouse that I hunt are ruffed and blue. Obviously there is a big difference between the two in size, a big blue grouse is one tough critter.
2) Grouse heads/necks are small targets. The neck is about as big around as your pinky finger and the head moves quite a bit. If you are a good shot or don't mind missing quite abit head shots are fine. But if your hunting camp rations are down to canned veggies and some pickles you might find a body shot with a bit of meat damage acceptable.
3) No field points. It is nice that they are cheap and fly straight, but that is about it as for benefits. I will never, ever shoot another animal of any kind with a field point.
4) Judos are not good for body shots. Blue grouse can be hit with a judo point in the chest with a 65lb. bow and fly away with the arrow (true story) and if the animal is retrieved the judo makes a mess of the breast meat.
My prefrence is to use old, damaged broadheads for any small game animal. Do not cry if you accidentaly hit a grouse in the breast. As unfortunate as this is it can be saved as long as you clean it immediatly and gently rinse it off, blood in the meat does not taste bad.
Have fun, there is nothing more fun than chasing grouse!