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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Michael Arnette on December 22, 2014, 03:41:00 PM
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Ok, the more I think about this, the more I think it's not ethical but now I'm curious
I've got a ethics/deer movement question. I've found a some really good spots on a place that other unknown hunters have access to. Problem is that a few of them look really good when it comes to rubs/scrapes etc. They are off the beaten path so I'm not too worried but still...
Question 1: Would you consider question 2 ethical
Question 2: If I were to clean out some part of the more obvious sign in order to avoid another hunter setting up on top of my friends and I (ie. 1 or 2 monster rubs) would it effect future deer movement? Say there are 6 rubs in an area and I cut the three biggest ones? All this rain we have been getting has helped cover the scrapes so that's not an issue.
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well if all you are hanging your hopes on is a few rubs then I would say its not going to matter. There is a lot more to learn about an area than just finding a few rubs and I have never had level of success over rubs . I would say scout the area look at how the deer use the terrain and what food and bedding are there then make a plan with all these factors in mind.
Is it ethical ? depends on who owns the land and if cutting is allowed , a lot of public land no cutting is allowed , keep that in mind.
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I have found that rub lines tell us two things, number one there are bucks in the area, number two direction of travel,[either from bedding areas or leading to bedding areas]. I also feel that most are made and revisited at night[when dealing with mature bucks]. On public or private ground if others have permission to be there, then I think anykind of interference with existing sign would be a violation of ethics. I think I would forget about buck sign this time of the year and concentrate on where the does and food sources are. And hunt evenings, these are the two things still driving mature buck movement in late season. Just my opinion.
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If you cut them down, who says they wont make more? Its what they do.
Cut down the tree in your yard your dog pees on and he'll just piss on another one.
:biglaugh:
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Thanks guys, the more I think about it the more I'm thinking it's not an ethical mindset to have.
I agree with you guys on what rubs mean for sure...Some of the best spots I've hunted have very little rut sign. They aren't something I normally focus on other than just an affirmation. I think they are visited mostly at night as well. I've had them attract other folks before though, normally the kind who are generally a pain to deal with
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This time of year Id leave the rubs up and hope they attract the other hunters. Find food near heavy cover and the deer will be there. Those bucks were on a different pattern when they made those rubs back in October
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Guys! ...these are still good spots! Just saying
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I know people who do it on public land in Fl.
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I would show the other hunters the rubs and then not hunt that spot. If those guys hunt that spot hard, the deer will start to avoid it...
Just a thought anyhow. I tend to find that if I can pattern hunters, Then I can better pattern the deer.
I think its futile to try and hide the sign, the deer will make more and you will be chasing your tail. You probably will muck up the area more than its worth and end up not seeing as many deer.
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This fall I hid a big rub I found on public land under some brush. The rub was 7-10 yards off an ATV trail and would have been highly noticeable otherwise. I was set up to hunt a funnel a ways down the rub line closer to a known bedding area. I figured if someone saw it they would investigate and possibly move in on me or disturbed the area. Was I practicing sound ethics? I think that is debatable. I didn't really think twice about it. Probably because I grew up on a potato farm that was split into 3rds by 2 county roads. I remember all my uncles hiding rubs that were visible from the roads. Simply covering them avoids the issue of illegally cutting trees, and also allows you to see if something or someone comes back to uncover it.
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I could never cut down a big rub. I would get to tired carrying the chainsaw in. Leave them be.
(http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr330/livrht/DSCF0366_zpsc8558d01.jpg) (http://s496.photobucket.com/user/livrht/media/DSCF0366_zpsc8558d01.jpg.html)
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Or you could carry a shed around and made a bunch of rubs right near the parking lot.
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Agree, let them be. Charlie and Craig said it.
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That is a monster rub Craig! You ever see the buck that made that rub!
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Not ethical. Years ago a magazine let an article be published from a guy who said if you want your scrap on public land to be the hot one just cut the licking branches off all the others. I replied with my fury. Michael just hunt harder and smarter and you will be alright.
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It would be good Practical joke on your buddies! Making all kinds of fake rubs! I love it...as long as it didn't go on too long
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What Cyclic Rivers said. One place I hunt, I pattern the hunters and stay out of their way. First I look for clover. Then two tracks thru the clover ( 'cause the farmer says "go ahead and drive on the clover... ya aren't hurting anything). Then I hunt the other end of the farm. Standing crops are great because the walk from the road is too far for the other guys.
Years back, I had a friend that insisted on hunting my best spot, that I'd scouted. I gave it to him every year. And, for whatever reason, he would get tag soup and I'd come home with venison. ?? Karma ?? Who knows? What I do know is that (1) there's lots and lots of deer out there - way more than when I was a kid, and (2) patience and persistance works better than fretting about your hunting spot.
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I hunt in pa. And where there are big rubs the guys will be also. So if you are permitted and want to keep it to yourself Cut em down hide it. Keep your mouth shut about the area n to your buddy to do the same. I'm saying talking about big bucks. No cam pic nothing. We don't even park where we hunt we park n walk to another spot to throw guys. Do what you need to. Weare all about stealth oops. lol hunting here in pa on public land.
Here guys will follow your tracks in snow. Steal your stands,smash them or be sitting in your spot. Asham but this is how I grew up n what we deal with. So I wouldn't hold it against ya to do what you have to to throw guys off
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Years ago, a fellow was given permission to hunt the same property I was hunting and still hunt today. I'm not the land owner so what was, was, anyway, it was a big farm with room for us both. Except this feller decided he wanted to hunt where I was hunting.
I've never left stands in the woods, I decide where I'm going, go, set up, hunt and take my stand with me when I'm done. One morning about 10, this guy comes walking by on his way out of the woods, I hailed him and we talked for a few minutes exchanging pleasantries and hunter's lies and he went his way. Two days later, 4am, I go to set up in the same tree and here's my new friends stand. OK, I went to an alternative spot and hunted the morning. I knew where he was parking his truck and the 1/2 trail he was using to get into "my" area. Miraculously, that afternoon, a scrape line appeared along that trail and lucky for him it was much closer to his truck. He stayed over there the remainder of the season, Don't know how he did and didn't care but I did have "my" area back to myself! By the next season he was gone.
Seems like cutting trees down is a bit drastic, not to mention all the new stumps, may even be illegal on state land. Besides, by the time you get done messing in the area cutting trees, the only deer left may be fawns and teenage bucks, may be smarter ways to get it done.
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I would think leaving a trail of human sweat and fallen trees or cut branches would have a huge impact on deer travel.
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I know of people making mock rubs and scrapes that end up killing nice bucks. I have seen mock scrapes taken over.
Chris
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We had a small cedar tree up on a hill that was rubbed every year. My father had a stand that over looked it and have taken several nice bucks from that stand over the years. He even said that he watched several bucks rubbing their antlers as well as numerous does scratching on it during several of his sits. Well, over time, for whatever reason, the cedar died. For 2 straight years, that stand was unproductive and the deer sightings dropped off dramatically at that stand. Come that Spring, my father planted a healthy sized cedar in the very spot the old one grew. The new cedar is rubbed every year and the deer sightings off that stand has jumped up significantly. Its a community rub and form of communication for the deer on our property. So one tree can make a difference in my opinion.
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This old cedar was also a community rub in Tosohatchee WMA Central Fl. I saw a lot of nice bucks rubbing and sniffing it and killed an 8pt as he was standing beside it.
After my experience with that rub I began to pay special attention to big rubs that have been used over the years.
I believe some rubs are used like dogs use trees..leave their card and see who's been by.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v71/Iflytrout/DEER/TosoRub_zps76f41d3b.jpg)
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If the others have permission to hunt the land then they have just as much right as you do to hunt there. I would say put your effort into hunting the deer and not worry about the other guy.