Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: 1flyfish on December 22, 2014, 10:27:00 AM
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Was looking for some input as I have not shot wood arrows for a really long time.I am shhoting a James Berry Morningstar that is 51@27 and was wonder what people like for that weight bow.Fir heavier so alittle slower,Fir lighter flatter trajectory.Thanks for any input.Lou
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Been a while since I shot either, but they were pretty close for me--I'd shoot either one, but I still like POC better.
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Fir is heavier, but also a lot tougher. Spruce is lighter. Really it's just what you like. Both are good choices.
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i have used both, but i prefer sitka, its incredibly tough, and when i want a heavy hunting arrow- i can use heavier broadheads, and still get up to the fir arrow weights- yet have a far better FOC percentage.
my stumping arrows are spruce, and i usually lose them before i break them :D
another great thing about spruce is that it has a very pronounced "inter fiber connective tissue"component.
in other words, transverse micro fibers that connect the longitudinal fibers of the wood.
it is classified as having the highest strength to weight ratio,i guess thats why they use it both for spar wood in the boating industry, and as aircraft framing wood!
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Flyfish, sounds like you know the differences well, so like gringol says it's just what you like.
While the weights with spruce are easier to match for what I want, I
mostly go with doug fir. Reason is I think they hold up better for stump shooting, which I do a lot of.
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Agree with Fujimo...I've had great luck with sitka spruce...its just as tough as fir. Just depends on how heavy of an arrow you want. I have spruce shafts that weigh 400g bare so a 600g arrow is easy to make.
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Originally posted by fujimo:
i have used both, but i prefer sitka, its incredibly tough, and when i want a heavy hunting arrow- i can use heavier broadheads, and still get up to the fir arrow weights- yet have a far better FOC percentage.
my stumping arrows are spruce, and i usually lose them before i break them :D
another great thing about spruce is that it has a very pronounced "inter fiber connective tissue"component.
in other words, transverse micro fibers that connect the longitudinal fibers of the wood.
it is classified as having the highest strength to weight ratio,i guess thats why they use it both for spar wood in the boating industry, and as aircraft framing wood!
...what he said... :thumbsup:
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Fujimo has it. Sitka Spruce is very strong when it comes to impact resistance. I've used and like both but I kinda like the spruce a wee bit more
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Who sells the best spruce?
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Hildebrand
http://www.hildebrandarrowshafts.com/
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I like Sitka Spruce better because I use a True Center taper tool, and I get a nice clean cut with the spruce. I had problems with chuncks tearing out of the DF.
Now that I think about it, I had the problem with a different tool, so maybe it was the problem, though have read other reports about this problem with DF.
X2 on Hildebrand.
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surewood doug fir for hunting, always. heavy is good, heavy is yer friend.
sitka spruce for really lightweight trad bows about 40# holding weights, or lots less. mostly, these bows and arrows will not be for hunting, but for target or newbies or kids.
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I don't wholly agree with you Rob.
I agree that heavy is your/our friend..within reason of course.
I truly feel that spruce makes a very fine hunting hunting arrow.
There is the nice benefit of being able to get some more foc out of your setup when using spruce.
I shoot lightish draw bows..45-50#. And close to what you say, the spruce is a good choice for those bows as the lighter shafts can get you a more reasonable grain/#.
I feel spruce is a great way to go even with heavier weight bows.
If I were shooting them I'd just add weight to the front to get my grains/# reasonable and go from there.
Now obviously, shooting an 80#ish bow would require such a great amount of tip weight to get to an acceptable grain/# finding a suitable spined spruce shaft would be difficult if not impossible.
For such bows D.fir would be an excellent choice...maybe something even heavier..
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i hear what you say Rob. for me i like to get the hunting weight arrows up there too, weight is surely your friend- but i just like to put it all into the broadhead-
and i shot spruce out of my #60 bows- and never had a problem with either spine or longevity. i now shoot #50 bows.
cheers :)
wayne
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x2 Zrad man! :thumbsup:
you beat me to the draw! :cool:
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it's all good, i have nothing against spruce shafting, have used it, will continue to use it, but for me i find doug fir a more durable and easier to get in the mass weight ranges i like.
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And I have nothing against d. fir...or you Rob..lol
Just wanted to give a "newly returned" wood shooter both sides of the coin.
and yes..It's all good!
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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The question is not which wood is better, all wood arrows are great. I have some 40 year old cedar that are the best. Every traditional archer should use wood at some point in their career, if not all the time. Obviously I use Fir and have shot Cedar, and have seen Spruce that I would not hesitate to shoot. What ever wood you shoot, all good quality wood makes wonderful arrows. Make, shoot, and enjoy. Steve
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amen to that brother steve!!!!
yer right, any wood is good wood! :D
must admit, i did buy a doz carbons once- but they're still setting there- 4 years later!
i concur with your footnote! :readit: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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I don't make wood shafts, but I figure it's similar to making strings. The material you use is only part of the equation. What you do with that material can make as much or more difference than the material itself.
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My Morningstar that is 53 at 26" shoots 27" 55 surewoods with 160 grain Grizzlies. I know that is over spined, but that is the spine the bow likes and that is what it gets. They fly dead straight and I wrecked two of them test shooting a tight group checking arrow flight. I was being lazy, I should have shot them one at a time. The other arrows are 1918s 27" bop with 175 up front including head and glue-on insert.
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I like Doug fir from surewood. Great shafts!
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Spruce for me. Lighter and not sluggish in flight, tough, and I can taper it with a hand held taper tool without crumbling the grain.
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Concerning the OP question about arrows speeds. I do not notice a great deal of difference in my point on distance from cedar to doug fir to 1918s. Some bows, perhaps, do not change speeds as much as others with varied arrow weights. It works out that my point on yardage is longer than some, even with my shorter draw and anchor with the arrow lined up to the corner of my mouth. Total arrow length perhaps makes the visual have a greater degree in that line of sight to angle of arrow equation. The difference is only a couple of yards, too small for me to give a definite number. How that translates in to arrow loft at 35 yards is even less discernable for me, I may be unconsciously lifting the heavier shaft, but I can put both cedar and firs in my quiver and not have one or the other consistently hit high or low. I can sense that with the 50 grain difference that one is faster and I was told that if you can sense a difference, the difference is at least 5 fps. I do have bows that a 50 grain difference shows up more, but those bows are very fast recurves with lighter arrows, where as most of my Hill style bows do not seem so fast in comparison, even with lighter arrows. These Morningstars, like other longbows, seem to be more efficient with heavier arrows and less efficient with lighter arrows.
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I'd order a set of trial arrows from Snag. He can advise you on what spine arrows to try as well.
You will probly be different from me, but my 51#@28" Shrew shot 63-65 lb Sitka Spruce pretty well with 160grn Stos broad heads. I drew that bow about 27.5", I think.
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The truth behind the weight of fir and spruce is if you want a heavier spruce shaft all you have to do is ask Hildabrant and they will sort through what they have to make you happy. I also believe spruce is much tougher then fir.
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x2- used both, had same results!!
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I like Doug fir and sitka spruce. I have been buying sitka spruce of late. It let's me shoot a heavier head (Grizzly 225) and stay at around 650 grains.
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I like and have both but for hunting the doug fir is the best
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for me, once past the straightness and durability concerns, it's all about the mass weight of a wood shaft. it's just easier to find light mass weight, but stiff spined spruce than fir or most any other shafting wood. light mass weight can be had with both, but again it's just easier to acquire with spruce. light mass weight for me is only for really light holding weight hunting trad bows. i'd still rather use surewood doug fir, and i do. ;)
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Wood takes a lot more work but I enjoy making arrows this time of year and Sitka sspruce and doug fir are both excellent arrow woods in my opinion
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Both are good woods, I prefer Sitka spruce and so do the guys at my archery club that I make arrows for.
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Just went through my stash of Rogue River and Surewood shafts and arrows, not a bent one in the bunch. Then looked at my few remaining pheasant and rabbit shoot aways made from the bundle I bought off the web auction sight. They were snakes when they were fresh shafts and still fight with me. The straight ones out of the bundle were made for friends deer hunting arrows. I wonder when I hear about people having trouble getting straight wood arrows, if they were bent when they got them and they tend to go back to their bent condition over time. Of the hundred plus arrows I have those are the only ones that need restraightening.
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I tried sitka spruce and didn't like it as well as Surewood Dougfir. I would rather have my hunting arrows a bit heavy than light.