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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: monkeyball on December 21, 2014, 10:29:00 PM
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I just read an article in a local publication that CWD is here to stay in our deer herd. The deer that are inflicted succumb to the disease.
The disease is spread thru a prion- accumulates in the soil and persists long term. Sounds as though there is much to be known about this disease as there are a lot of questions that are not being answered at the present.
The article did say that it's not a "human health concern". It is instead an animal health concern.
Here is where my question lies- If our deer herd becomes severely infected with this disease, are you going to still consume the venison from your kill?
I personally want to see a little more research done on this disease before things get really bad.
I found three dead deer last year after the last season and now I wish I would have gave the Game Commission a call. What are your thoughts on this?
Good Hunting,
craig
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Why isn't it everywhere?? Ive wondered that?
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Because it's not endemic to this area. It is being brought in by commercial deer farmers whose stock is infected. It then spreads to wild herds. It takes time to become established and spread.
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Keith,
From what I understand CWD was first discovered in Colorado 30 yrs ago. There are other states between us whose deer herds have really been smacked by this. Sounds as though it is going to get a lot worse before it gets better.
Good Hunting,
Craig
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Here's a link to an article in the Journal Of Fish and Wildlife Management that discusses surveillance for CWD here in the east.
http://fwspubs.org/doi/pdf/10.3996/032014-JFWM-021
Yes, it's here to stay.
Yes, I will still consume the venison I kill. You just need to take some extra precautions. De-bone the meat. Remove all spinal and brain material. Don't eat an obviously sick deer. The Game Commission has some pretty good info on what to do if you hunt in an area where CWD has been confirmed. I hunt one such area.
http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=1253813&mode=2
The most prudent thing to do would be to ban all transport of captive deer and destroy all captive deer in deer farms. Period! No exceptions! The problem is that captive deer are considered livestock and fall under the jurisdiction of the department of agriculture whereas wild deer are managed by the PA Game Commission.
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I have stopped consuming organ meat such as liver and heart several years ago. It seams this stuff like to linger in those parts.
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One of the outbreaks started in our area from an Amish deer farm, PGC has areas posted with CWD warnings,this is not going away I think stricter Inspections by the PGC is needed also have some Preserves locally that Imported elk not a good sign for our deer hunting future.
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Money is the root of all evil...and profit motive has created yet another bastion of ill, foisted on the many by the few...
Deer hunting in PA (and many states) generates much need income for rural local economies yet the ability of individual entities to create widespread health risk and damage OTHER PEOPLE's ability to make a living, is of small concern...
Sign of the times!
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Both of the spots I hunt are within a couple of miles of the CWD "border". One inside, one outside. The rules for "inside" say I can't take my deer home "outside" to butcher it, though I can take it to an approved processor that is outside. I'd rather take it home so I know what I'm getting. Unfortunetly, sooner or later the bulk of the state will probably be considered a CWD area.
Steve
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Originally posted by SCS:
The rules for "inside" say I can't take my deer home "outside" to butcher it, though I can take it to an approved processor that is outside. I'd rather take it home so I know what I'm getting. Unfortunetly, sooner or later the bulk of the state will probably be considered a CWD area.
Steve
GAWD..! another example of a govt with too many elected officials with not enough to do? Or, special interest groups lobbying to get more biz?
That is ridiculous! I butcher all my own deer! I take special care to make sure all is sanitary, meat is devoid of blue skin, fat and hair. And on fixed income, I couldn't begin to afford most "processors" and do NOT want to eat what they process! I've seen enough of those to know it's not as fastidious as what I do!
Sure, cutting thru nerves can expose prions to the air and it can be air-borne transmitted. But I've always de-boned all my deer... don't like the taste of bone marrow smeared across my meat, marinated in the freezer and then cooked.
But we can eat PA Fish Commission trout raised in PCB infested hatchery water with a simple "warning" but you have to take deer to a processor?
Too many laws made with no common sense.
If they can't get us to stop hunting by legislation against hunting or weapons, they'll try to do it by making it so convoluted to keep what we get, they hope we'll quit?
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I process my own deer, I don't cut any bone except for when I split the pelvic bone. All other meat is deboned. The one thing I was thinking is that I usually cut the skull when I take the antlers off.....I don't think I will be doing that in the area I process my meat.
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Deer does not have to go to a processor. you can butcher it yourself. You just can't take the head/spine out of the CWD area, onless taking to an approved processor. At least that's how I read it.
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The issue that bothers me the most is that they say"there is no evidence as of yet that CWD is transmittable to humans or domestic livestock" yet if you know that your deer tested positive for CWD they recommend that you do NOT consume it.
That just is not real clear in my opinion. Time will tell.
Good Hunting,
Craig
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Bother you enough to quit hunting or stop eating it? It needs to be more prevelent for me to get too excited about it.
Steve
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I agree with Steve. I'm not worried about it from the perspective of me catching a disease. It's been around for a long time in the west and there has been no documentation of a person contracting it. Of course I still wouldn't eat one if it tested positive for the disease - just like any other disease that probably wouldn't harm you if cooked properly. If I'm gonna worry about catching a disease while hunting, it's going to be Lyme disease.
Doc Nock - Who exactly are "they"? The PA Game Commission has established the rules on how to handle deer harvested in CWD areas so as to help prevent the spread of the disease. It's to keep hunters who process their own deer from dumping the brain and spinal tissue someplace where it can then expose other deer to the disease. It all seems like pretty proactive, risk averse wildlife management to me - minimize the spread of the disease and make sure hunters are not unintentionally part of the problem. So I'd say the intent is the exact opposite of what you suggest.
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From what i have heard, once it appears and before it gets established, it spreads from the deer eating from the same traugh, like tube feeders, or at least this makes it spread faster.
I thought I read some place that it can spread to humans and has already done so.
I also think Doc might be on to something !
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I think PA is taking a reasonable approach to it, at least. Wasn't it Wisconsin that the game commission wanted every deer killed within a certain area that it was found in? That was more than a little overboard.
Steve
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I grew up in WI in a CWD area. They eradicated the herd. Hunting was tough for many years. something small like one in 500 deer tested positive.
They need to ban baiting and feeding. Its my understanding or was common thought the deer were infected eating at the same sites.
I don't think CWD will have an impact like EHD. Its been around for a long time and there has not been any known cases of it spreading to Humans. Don't eat deer that are visibly sick, I think you will be OK.
Wisconsin acted swiftly and severely before they had facts. They acted from fear and felt doing something was better than nothing. I don't fault them for trying to fix the problem but they were just taking a shot in the dark in my opinion.
Why kill hundreds of thousands of deer just to check, then bury them in mass burial graves or burn them? Even the deer that didn't test positive were wasted.
Plus from what I understand, you have to test the deer within a short period after death or the tests are inconclusive.
I don't think CWD will go away but I don't think its as devastating as they think. People are more more devastating than the disease.
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Originally posted by SCS:
Bother you enough to quit hunting or stop eating it? It needs to be more prevelent for me to get too excited about it.
Steve
I guess possibly both Steve. If they ever found out that it was not a good idea to consume an infected deer or that it was transmissible to humans and the herd was heavily hit,well......I really wouldn't find the need to kill deer. I kill them to eat them.
Good Hunting,
Craig
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JOhn, your words are well thought and lack emotion. I appreciate your input.
I do not have the GRACE you exhibit. PGC allows, or at least doesn't throw all their efforts to stop deer farms and such, but want to put it on the individual for all the established reasons you espouse, which sound so logical as to be almost callous to counter. i don't buy it... sorry.
Regulate how its disposed of after processing...not that you have to do it where? on your tailgate in an area away from your home?
Pffttt... Years back, pheasants were following corn planters and pecking out anti-fungal mercury coated corn that served as a fungicide. They "advised" you either limit your intake of birds or put on a trivet and discard the fat where the poison resided... Gave options and let you be accountable...
I just don't buy the 'sound management" tact as the motive. Each to our own. I honor the biologists of PGC, but they've been impotent and the politicians are the driving force for decades.
Sorry for poor typing. I had a retinal tear repaired with freezing today and can barely see.
"They" would be entities that have striven to deter or eliminate hunting, not the PGC, for pete's sake, John... I just see this as more of a knee jerk "lock the barn after the horse is stolen" response than one as erudite as you see it!
We can agree to disagree! Prevent spread? Didn't work in other states... and I vote they're clutching at straws... process a deer in the field...good trick if you can do it and how does that keep the infected nerve/brain/spinal tissue from spreading the disease? Field butcher!?
I admit, I did not think about how I dispose of the carcass when I'm done butchering, but I don't buy processors have a lock on safe ways to do so!
Lots of ways if processors have specialized disposal systems (never saw that and have been around Many"processors" (deer butchering places in PA cannot also process commercial animals unless totally separated facility, so most are just hunting season operations. What special disposal do they have eh???
Too many "holes" in the logic model for me to swallow, but perhaps I'm just in an ornery mood after my ordeal today? :)
You guys have to deal with it, not me. I'd be wearing gloves and a mask cause all I've read in scientific journals is that you nick any nerve (many in meat) you release prions to the air and you can inhale them... and no you cannot get CWD, but there are human forms with other names I've read... More word play????
I'm going to just ease on outa this one now. I wish I had more respect for PGC in it's current form, but do not. Too much insider stuff from recent past and, as a result, I will remain suspicious...
I hope they can contain it...and that processors are required (all seasonal deer butcher shops) to have to do something "special" with any critter carcass and heads! No more sawing off the antler and skull cap if you're smart...
Wonder if the beetles that eat the skull flesh can transmit it...? I know those hives stink to high heaven those bugs live in...
So many questions...so many pat answers... Good luck and Merry Christmas to all and to all a Good Night!
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I live right in the heart of the CWD area. Notice I always complain about deer numbers.... But I don't believe they are dying from CWD. Is all the tags and herd reduction. They gave an extra 14,000 tags in my area on top of the normal doe tags for CWD erradication purposes.
This is 4a. I went to te seminars given in my area by the game commission and head of pa aggreculture., it's nothing new. Been around for long time I belive first was in Colorado. They said the disease stays in the ground for up to 15 years. It's passed my liquids, saliva, pee, poop. That sort of thing.
Yeah your correct, the only way to identify is to kill the animal n check, brain, spinal cord, lymphnodes. Each deer processor here had to go through classes to be able to butcher deer. So it's hard to find a butcher now if you don't do you own. You are not to cut through the spine. Debone the deer. The butchers take samples from deer to give to the game commission. They also have deer dumpster here on state game lands to put carcasses in. If not you are required to put them in heavy duty trash bags n give to the the garbage man.
I stay away from neck meat now as that's where the glands are located. It is also more prevelant in older deer and esp in older bucks.
We are no longer allowed to use urine based scents here in CWD area.
You are not allowed to removed deer from the CWD area. So no traveling with your buck in your truck anymore have to keep it in the CWD area. Only boned out meat can be removed.
Stay way from eating organs. ESP liver. The deer infected with CWD will most definaty die. It's a brain problem. Brain will look something like a sponge with holes in it. Have to clean all your tools and utensils with bleach after processing. Cook meat throughly.
I belive CWD is here to stay and will only spread. This is our second season with CWD
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They also have a very interesting study. On deer migration and a that kinda stuff. The path they take moving up from the south through Maryland through 4a areas in pa and will be pushing north east. So you north east guys.. Your next to see it.
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Well, I guess if CWD becomes too common or too much of a concern, we'll just stick with shooting the foam deer instead. They may not taste as good, but they are a lot of fun to "hunt", especially with a good "hunting party".
Merry Christmas everyone!!
Steve
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I'm with you there Steve!
Good Shooting,
Craig
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I to would not be comfortable consuming any deer that did not seem healthy.Seems ashame that the commercialization of farm raised deer and the trading, buying and transferring of these deer where not more regulated from the DCNR and not letting the game commision be more control.Guess we all have to live with it now.
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Originally posted by 1flyfish:
I to would not be comfortable consuming any deer that did not seem healthy.Seems ashame that the commercialization of farm raised deer and the trading, buying and transferring of these deer where not more regulated from the DCNR and not letting the game commision be more control.Guess we all have to live with it now.
It is regulated. My buddy raises deer. It is regulated like any livestock. By the pa agriculture. You have to have licenses, permits and immunization so on. There are more deer farms in pennsylvania than any other state In the US. They are everywhere you just don't reLize it. Same with hunting preserves. All over pa. The deer that was discovered to have CWD originally bringing on the craze was a wild deer.
Everyone like to blame the farms. I let you in on some inside info on what happened. And on the escaped pen deer that everyone was so scared about. Let me explaine.
Everytime a pen deer dies. They cut its head off and send it to pen state for testing. They are to anyhow. Well adeer was found to have CWD. So everyone they did buisness with or sold deer to was put under quarantine. Until things were figured out. Every deer that was from or came in contact with that heard was killed and heads cutoff for testing. But here is where it went wrong. The pa game commission went to the orginal place it came from and entered the pen and went crazy shooting all the deer inside.(pa agriculture should have taken care of killing the deer) Most of you do not know but pen raised deer are not as people friendly as you would think. They freaked out. With the shooting and do what they do and that's go crazy smashing into the fence. In all the commotion a deer escaped... They should not have acted as they did. The actions of the game commission cased the deer to escape. They could have use a differant approach to dispatch the fenced deer. This never would have happened. This is what you seen on the news Was about the escape deer starting the painc of the CWD spreading to the WILD deer. You didn't hear about that in the news. The first CWD deer was a wild deer found here in Blair county pa in the wild. They also test road killed deer in the area as well.
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http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=1253813&mode=2
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RedShaft,
Thank you for all your input.
Good Shooting,
Craig
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Just want to inform. I don't think its a thing to get caught up in. But there some info if it gets to your areas. We here have been in the heart of it. And it really seem those around here are not that concerned about it. More about low deer numbers than the CWD.