After reading Guru"s post on a "buck of a life time" it go me thinking. I have a antlerless tag in a area that I see more than normal amounts of nub bucks or bucks with only one small horn. I have one small 2x1 that's maybe 3" tall I've got my eye on. It's real common to see a buck with a 3" horn on one side and 1" horn on the other. Some with just a nub on the short side or no antler at all. My friends boy killed a nub buck like what Guru's buck a few years back on a antlerless hunt. I would see a nub buck or one horned buck as a "bad gene" buck. Now my question is a small buck with a 3" horn on one side and a 1" horn on the other side is this buck a "bad gene" buck also? Or is this a buck that was a late fawn and may blossom into a giant?
I think it might depend on what region you live in but here in the Mid West I view all small bucks as a potential Stud given 3 or 4 years!
I think I seen a study ounce out east somewhere ( New York maybe )on a free range whitetail that started as a spike and was followed by a photographer for his entire life I believe and he turned into a beautiful mature buck!
It was on some sort of game preserve so he grew up with no hunting pressure which always helps :thumbsup:
Bottom Line-----
Unless you have a history of inferior genes in your area then I would treat all small bucks as a potential clone of the stock that you have running around :thumbsup:
Now this is in one drainage and I don't see this near as much if I go 5 miles away in any direction.
Have you seen a 2 or 3 year old buck in that drainage?
What does one of those look like?
It's sounding like an inferior gene of some sort if it's isolated to that area.
I think there are poor and better gene pools for antlers. however, I'm just happy to have healthy whitetails! I'm agreeing with the others...give any small buck 5 to 7 years and he'll be a dandy!
To me it sounds like a very tasty dinner :rolleyes:
That sounds like the bucks we have around here. I killed a really big spike in the early season that turns out to be a 2.5 year old. It seems like the let them go and let them grow is just making bigger spikes and four points.
Several years ago I arrowed a huge bodied buck sporting a little fork horn rack. I was really curious about this guy and took him to the local DNR Field Office to have him aged. I don't know who was more surprised me or the Biologist, 3 1/2 years old and dressed out at 181 pounds.
Button to Booner (http://www.realtree.com/deer-hunting/galleries/photo-gallery-from-buttons-to-booner)
Means nothing imo. See alot of spikes around here but all mature bucks here are nice or else giant. Once they mature more nutrients go to the antlers but that dont mean they aren't tasty.
Every sit means diferent things to me. I have some family ground that is very difficult to bowhunt. When I hunt there, my expectations of what constitutes a "trophy" is very different from what others may deem a trophy. I can move a short mile away, and my standards change. The great thing about Traditional Bowhunting is every animal taken under fair chase is a trophy. I'll be damned if I'm going to judge one animal superior to another, as long as it was taken by a hunter shooting a stick and string.
I also look at each and every hunt with different standards. One of the areas I used to hunt had some big spikes running around and I would have loved to have gotten one.
I was talking with one of the hunters who did get one and had it aged at 3.5 yrs old. He was told by the DNR that they see a few each year from the area and suspected it's a genetic thing but hadn't done any research on it.
here's a buck I knicknamed "slugger"--I figure he had the "defective" genes we are talking about--spikes with browtines--full sized body of a 3-1/2 year old and here's some other recessive trait-stubby legs-he reminded me of a basset hound -well maybe not that short but clearly short legged--and if i asked him if he had defective genes he would have probably kicked my butt!
I killed him late in November and he came into doe bleats and was going to pass out of range when he got a whiff of JV lure and he turned into a lane --you can see he was rubbing every tree in the woods-he was fighting every buck he could find-there were patches of fur missing from all over his back and rump -rake marks and welts everywhere!
(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj319/kittitiny/Mobile%20Uploads/158.jpg) (http://s275.photobucket.com/user/kittitiny/media/Mobile%20Uploads/158.jpg.html)
(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj319/kittitiny/Mobile%20Uploads/159.jpg) (http://s275.photobucket.com/user/kittitiny/media/Mobile%20Uploads/159.jpg.html)
IMHO... You purchased your license, shoot what you want as long as it is legal.
Personally, I don't think you'll ever see a buck's potential if he is culled at 6 months to a year and half old. Above is the perfect example of a cull buck if you're looking for larger horns.
Me, I love to hunt mature bucks, coyotes and bobcats. Not necessarily in that order either, but I do love hunting a mature buck. The older I get I find myself hunting way more than killing.
Shoot what you want, you're the only one that needs to be happy about your hunt at the end of the day. The younger ones taste better anyhow. :)
We tend to call it a "cull buck" or a bad gene buck, but really, that is just our call, not Mother Nature's call. We get caught up in the rack, when there is a whole lot more involved in keeping that deer alive and prosperous.
As an example from an earlier thread. You are hunting an area with an imposed APR or antler point restriction. Gotta be an 8 point or better. The complaint was the huge "cull" 6 point that was the stud deer of the area.
We may think he is a cull, but based ONLY on antler size, he has a superior gene set that keeps him from getting shot (legally at least) while those other deer do not.
Darwinism at work here.
ChuckC
QuoteOriginally posted by bamboo:
here's a buck I knicknamed "slugger"--I figure he had the "defective" genes we are talking about--spikes with browtines--full sized body of a 3-1/2 year old and here's some other recessive trait-stubby legs-he reminded me of a basset hound -well maybe not that short but clearly short legged--and if i asked him if he had defective genes he would have probably kicked my butt!
I killed him late in November and he came into doe bleats and was going to pass out of range when he got a whiff of JV lure and he turned into a lane --you can see he was rubbing every tree in the woods-he was fighting every buck he could find-there were patches of fur missing from all over his back and rump -rake marks and welts everywhere!
(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj319/kittitiny/Mobile%20Uploads/158.jpg) (http://s275.photobucket.com/user/kittitiny/media/Mobile%20Uploads/158.jpg.html)
(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj319/kittitiny/Mobile%20Uploads/159.jpg) (http://s275.photobucket.com/user/kittitiny/media/Mobile%20Uploads/159.jpg.html)
He'a super cool buck. I killed one with bp like that a few years ago that looked to be at least 3 1/2.
Now don't get me wrong I don't get caught up in the growing nothing but ideal eye pleasing racks but more just curious. Years back in this drainage I killed a spike buck with a recurve that had 17" high spikes and I figured it to be a 3 1/2 year old deer. When the horns were cut off it looked like a spike bull elk. It fooled several people. My brother also killed a nice 3x1 in the same drainage the following season. it just had the main beam on the one side with no G1's or G2's and looked more like a whitetail rack than a mule deer. I don't think I would shoot a young 1 1/2 year old buck this year considering how many I let go during the general season but if a 3 1/2 year buck came by that was under the 5" antlerless rule I might let a arrow fly.
the whole numerical "scoring system" has IMO damaged deer hunting, sadly kids nowadays are ashamed of killing "Only a 6 pointer" or spike or whatever.
Every deer I've killed was a trophy experience to me. I've been killing deer with a recurve or longbow every year since around 1970 and small game starting around 1960 and never was ashamed of any kill, but instead was thrilled by every encounter.
Bow hunting is a near religious experience for me, that may sound odd but it just is the truth.
It could also be nutrition. I killed a "monster" buck up on top of a WV mountain a few years ago. He was noticeably bigger than any other deer we had seen. He was a forkhorn and dressed at 85 pounds. Westvaco owned the property and deer ate every sapling they replanted after timbering. The deer were all along the road eating the grass growing there-it was all spot and stalk.
http://www.northcountrywhitetails.com/articles/spikes.htm
several studies in the works indicate antler size at one year have very little to do with what the antler size will be on that deer when it reaches maturity.