I hear lots of reasons for choosing a 2 blade head. Yet I never hear anything about 3 blades other than '3 blades cut more'. I literally hear that every time but nothing more.
I am just wondering is that really true? Not to mention we could be comparing a huge Centaur or big Simmons head to a Woodsman for instance.
So I'm just sitting here wondering, do 3 blades really produce noticeably more blood?
(didn't include a 4 blade because it's more like an option for a 2 blade not a novel design)
I think they do; I've shot deer with three blades and Stingers, and thought the three blade wound bled more, myself. I have not used a truly large two blade, though.
Cut more, I find them dramatically easier to sharpen, and I'm sure it's in my head but I feel like they fly better. Never had the least bit of penetration issues either.
Snowplow, try to read the Ashby arrow lethality studies. They should be archived on this site, if not, just google them.
Some folks do not agree with his findings, but to date it is the ONLY such comprehensive study, and thus should be used as a reference at least for any bowhunter.
Basically, all else being equal, 3 blade and 2 blade heads will penetrate soft tissus at a similar rate. The 3 blade will create a larger wound channel. The 2 blade will penetrate bone significantly better.
I choose to use 2 blades because they give me better odds to put two holes in the critter even if I do not make a perfect shot. A narrow 2 blade that leaves an exit wound will usually create more blood on the ground than a 3 blade that does not leave an exit wound.
They work fine. Get em sharp and put them in the right spot. We argue too much over very little.
Two blade, three blade, six blade. . most of us are hunting deer. They aren't that large, certainly not anything like those subjects used in the Natal studies.
Sharp, in the right spot. Those are the important issues.
ChuckC
I have shot some critters with both 2 blade and 3. Where I hunt the main hog game animals are whitetails and hogs. Hogs are really the test animal. If you can get thru them then no issue with a whitetail. The only three blade I have used is a woodsman and woodsman elite. Based on the blood trails and recovery distance the three blade puts more blood down. I have had less recovery distance with the three blade. This is a woodsman elite head. I have to say it is the only broadhead I am shooting and see no reason to shoot anything else. If I was going to Africa tomorrow, I would shoot a woodsman elite and only change the arrow I was shooting.
Here's my reason....and it's not a fluke. (http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a322/Arrowworks/Bloodtrail1.jpg) (http://s14.photobucket.com/user/Arrowworks/media/Bloodtrail1.jpg.html)
good blood trails for sure
I think it matters most what is cut as to blood on the ground, location of entrance and exit wound as well, rather than number of blades. You get the aorta you'll have blood everywhere. Go over it and your popping just the lungs and smaller arteries, you'll still have blood on the ground but maybe not as much as the aorta will give??
I was just sharpening some 160 grizzly single bevels and some VPA 3 blades. All had been shot into the target. I can sharpen the VPAs a lot easier than I can those grizzlys.
Both styles have killed ALOT of critters!
I once heard or read the Wensel brothers saying that they designed the Woodsman because they felt the 3 blade created a hole, not a slot like the 2 blade... the idea being that a hole would obviously result in a better blood.
2 blades for me, for the same theory Charlie3 stated in his last sentence...although I like the wider ones...it's a personal choice, like which bow to shoot, and what your arrows are made of...
Using a 2-blade might teach you more about trailing animals; anyone can follow a trail like the one in Bill Carlsen's photo!! :biglaugh:
Personally, I just like the idea of cutting on more than one plane. Whatever is more accurate always gets my vote, though.
I've used 2, 3, and 4 blades to take game. All work as long as I do my part. But, with that being said, I like 3 blade heads the best.
Not only 3 blades, but big 3 blades... Big Jim Big 3, VPA 1 1/4" 250 grain, Snuffer 160 with 100 gr insert... I've used Woodsmans, Razorcaps, and standard VPA, but with the #'age I shoot I like to do as much damage on the way through as I can... Even 2 and 4 blades are big... Zwickey Delta, Magnus 1, Centaur Big Game and Battle Axe, Silverflame DS...
Big wide holes are the norm, putting a lot of blood on the ground. But, blood trails usually are not necessary as they usually fall in sight...
Thanks guys!
Currently shoot Magnus MagI in 160 grain and get good blod trails. Even when I hit a 60# pig in the neck and push out the other side below her eye. Plan to go to Grizzly Instinct heads next year though. I have shot Rothaar Snuffers in the past.
Simple math... 3 - 3" blades = 9" of razor going through the animal vs 5 to 6" on a two blade.... it's a no brainer....
But a two blade will get er done too, and often get better penetration if you hit bone or clip a shoulder blade..... I hunt with both... depends on my mood at the time...
There is a reason three sided bayonets are illegal by the Geneva Convention
3 blade VPA for me. They make great holes and leave blood trails I cn see.
I love the woodsmans...in about 15 minutes I can have one majorly sharp using my favorite file..can't do that with a two blade.
I am sometimes not happy with how my two blades sharpen and end up not using them...never had that problem with a woodsman.
Shot a deer a couple days ago here in central Texas...and it was really cold. The shot was 12-15 yards full broadside. My release was bad, probly cause I was shivering so hard my bones were banging together, and I pulled the shot high and back....not good.
The arrow (675 grains) passed through the buck like lightning and stuck in the ground. The buck startled but didn't move...he bunched up and moved at a slow walk probly 15 yards in a semi circle when his back legs fell. He tipped over and died almost in front of my tripod stand, about 15 yards out in front of me.
Total time from shot to going down was about 10 seconds.
The woodsman was still sharp enough to get back in the stand and continue hunting with it.
I know...that's just one deer, but it was dramatic to see. I just knew I was gonna spend the day looking for that wounded deer.
Makes me a believer, and that's not the only time something like that has happened...
Wow, I went to seventh grade in Pflugerville. Long, long time ago.
I had one bad experience with a 2 blade. Good shot, complete pass through, no blood at all. Deer died within 100 yds, fat sealed up the "slits". Been using woodsmans since. I have killed elk, mule deer, whitetails, pronghorn and hogs with them. No complaints with the three blades.
Wierd but between rifle and bow I've shot around 20 deer. I've had exactly one blood trail. I've talked to two friends of mine that only rifle hunt and both said it's the exception not the norm to get a blood trail even when they put a big hole in a deer. So I dunno if it wasn't for the fact I did have one blood trail I would think they were a myth. Thinking about the three pigs I've shot with a bow two there was no blood the third blood at the spot I shot him but no trail.
I like Kirk's way of thinking. Been on enough 2 blade blood trails, to know I'm a 160gr Snuffer guy.
My 2 cents from field testing.
Its always best to have an exit hole. The exit hole is usually lower in the body (assuming elevated hunter) and is the drain plug. "The exit hole" IMHO should be everyone's goal.
Many factors to take into account but for deer the size of ours here, if you shoot 55 lbs or over go for the 3 blade if you like. If you shoot under 55 lbs go with a 2 blade. Doesn't matter how great an archer you are, can't be sure of a perfect shot every time and the goal should be an exit hole.
Smaller southern deer 50 lbs on a 3 blade cutoff.
Hogs I would raise the poundage to at least 60 before I would recommend shooting a 3 blade.
Elk I would raise the poundage even more etc.
Off little off subject but total arrow weight is also a major determining factor in achieving an exit hole.
I use both, but probably the three blades more often. I agree with the slot vs. the hole theory. Snuffers make big hole's.
I just started using single bevel heads this year and I'm very impressed. Have shot 2 hogs and a Sika deer all with 2 holes and great blood trails. Not that I needed blood trails the 2 hogs didn't make it 30 yards and the Sika maybe 45. I was using a 55# long bow.
(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee178/sunstone/P1030345_zps6b77bc72.jpg) (http://s234.photobucket.com/user/sunstone/media/P1030345_zps6b77bc72.jpg.html)
(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee178/sunstone/P1030311_zps9783d0b4.jpg) (http://s234.photobucket.com/user/sunstone/media/P1030311_zps9783d0b4.jpg.html)
I have always been a two blade guy, but many friends have stated that they have gotten much better blood trails with 3 headed broadheads. That alone is sufficient reason to use them.
3 blade for me...on deer and elk...for me its blood trail and what i have confidence in...
If you get a complete pass through there is no doubt a 3 blade bleeds more, the question is which penetrates better ? Would rather have a pass through with a 2 blade, than just stick it in with a 3 blade, especially a down ward shot, like from a treestand. I have killed way more whitetails with 2 blades, than 3 blades, but have had some pretty crappy blood trails with 2 blades. After over 20 years , im still undecided which is best, but I still tend to use 2 blades. Maybe just because they are easier to sharpen.
Woodsman Elite, glue on 160 grain. I am shooting aluminum arrows 2117 with the glue on adapter designed for use with glue on broadhead. The glue on adapters go up into the shaft over an inch, this adds strength to the end of the aluminum arrow and internal "foots" it.
This is the best "tuned" set up I have shot in years. I bare shafted over the summer and I am shooting an arrow rest. Pig and buck both total pass thru, I thought I missed the pig it went thru so fast. I am shooting 10 grain per pound. 610 grain arrow at 60# @ 27". Super Diablo recurve. The super devil spoke. LOL! Wicked, just wicked...
Buck exit side quartering forward shot, 40 yrd recovery
(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n559/jeffbschulz/Mobile%20Uploads/20141109_094441_zps524522f4.jpg) (http://s1139.photobucket.com/user/jeffbschulz/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20141109_094441_zps524522f4.jpg.html)
Arrow and Vanes covered with blood,
(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n559/jeffbschulz/Mobile%20Uploads/5a61bfb3-4524-4474-a744-f648d8668484_zps3aef7a5b.jpg) (http://s1139.photobucket.com/user/jeffbschulz/media/Mobile%20Uploads/5a61bfb3-4524-4474-a744-f648d8668484_zps3aef7a5b.jpg.html)
Sow, about 60 yrd recovery, quartering away shot...
(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n559/jeffbschulz/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-10-06132323_zps1ae5b8f6.jpg) (http://s1139.photobucket.com/user/jeffbschulz/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-10-06132323_zps1ae5b8f6.jpg.html)
:) :campfire:
Easier to sharpen 3 sides as compared,to,four on a 2 blade.
Can align blades with feathers for better flight. A hole instead of a slit. And personally I like to see a 3 blade in my peripheral vision over a 2 blade.
I'm going Friday morning I'm udon simmons sharks. I'm going to put the bleeder blades on. I've never used them before.
I have used both and really haven't seen that much difference in blood trails. I have used two blades most and get much better penetration. I was asked to use a VPA 3 blade for a doe hunt I have coming up and have no worries about using them. Deer size game I will use any legal broadhead but when you get to elk or bigger I would go two blade. A good compromise is a wide two blade like a centaur big game head. I really like the hole they leave.
I would like to shoot a wide broadhead, but I have found at longer distance that many are too sensitive to any shooter error or wind. The best shooting heads I have found for accuracy are Howard Hill's and Schulz Hunter's Heads. They are not super durable is the down side.
I like the durability and forgiving nature of the VPA or Woodsman Elite. The best compromise. I wish more of the wheel bow guys would shoot a decent broad head. I am always amazed to see a guy shooting a 70 pound wheel bow and have poor penetration. ;)
Then again if you don't get a pass through that arrow is hitting on brush and the broad head is cutting like crazy. For hogs I would rather have this since the arrow forces open the hole to let more blood out rather than a slit closing up.