Reading all this U_EFOC stuff has small feathers on my brain.
Has anyone ever done any comparison on what the feather drag actually translates to in real life?
Say (3) 5.5" shields vs (3) 3" parabolics. How much lower does the large feathers impact at 40 yards or some such comparison.
FPS doesn't really say much to me (maybe it should) but I just wonder if there is an actual practical benefit at all? If there is only a 2" drop at 40 yards for instance, I dont see that I care at all.
Just wondering...
I think you are going to get a wide range of answers on this question. But i for one like a decent sized fletch with some helical on my arrows.
I'm a middle of the road guy and use a 4" LP fletching mostly. but i don't think you are going to see a significant difference in arrow drop until you get well past 40 yards. Even then it's not huge.
Using small fletching requires a very fine tuned arrows and a good solid release every time. The arrows with larger fletching are going to be more forgiving to a less than perfect release & stabilize that arrow flight much quicker.
I am running 4-3" Para's right now. Beaman 500's with about 200 gr. broadhead/adap. They fly as nice as any larger fletch I have ever used.
Good Hunting,
Craig
Key Kirk, is LP low profile? If so, what would that be?
I am thinking that I would shorten that distance a fair amount Kirk. Absolutely no scientific basis, but I shoot both 5.5" high back shields and also 4" shields as well as cut 4" LP banana's.
I have often said, you can shoot almost any arrow if it has 5.5" feathers. Man do they catch the wind. But if there is a breeze, they catch that too. And they are noisier, both in the air as well as in the quiver. (that said, they must not be TOO noisy, lots of critters were killed by arrows bearing those style feathers)
For squirrel rounds, I often place 4- 5.5" feathers on the shaft, which I think slows it more, but not like a full fly flu. Remember, you tend to measure FPS at or near the bow, and that won't show you much since they don't slow the arrow down till after the arrow is on its way.
I think the real answer, for your gear and style, is to make one of each and shoot them side by side. Although TradGang gives us immediate feedback on a lot of topics, nothing beats having done it yourself for your own experience.
I am thinking that at 40 yards, you will see a fair difference. At 15 - 20, maybe not so much.
CHuckC
For my normal arrows, I use 3 - 4" shield cut feathers. For my judos and blunts when roving, I use 6 - 5" shield cut feathers. I use the same shafts on my regular and roving arrows, and the judos and blunts weigh the same as my field points. My normal point on is 50 yards. To hit at 50 yards with my roving arrows, I have to hold about 3' high. I'm sure there's some difference in POI at 20-30 yards, but not enough that I consciously adjust for it when shooting at pine cones, etc., and I hit my fair share of pine cones. My subjective experience is that they shoot within a few inches of the same out to about 25-30 yards, and then the roving arrows start to drop off. That's why I fletch them that way: so they won't go so far in the field when I miss a high shot. Plus, with all the colorful feathers, they're easier to find.
One of my friends prefers to use flu-flu's in trad tournaments when shooting at close (15 yards and in) distances, because he feels he is more accurate with them, maybe because they recover faster from paradox. I don't know of anyone else who does that, but they seem to work fine for him.
I shoot 5" Parabolic, full helical on all my hunting arrows with 2 blade broadheads. When I'm spring bear hunting, close range shots and I'm using a 160 gr Snuffer...my arrows have 5.5" HB Shields in full helical. Want that stability that larger feathers offer for the close shots.
You don't hear much about it, but if you get Saxton Pope's book "Hunting With The Bow And Arrow" it's a really interesting read. He and other's at the university conducted a number of tests on a variety of bows, arrow combinations, styles, etc. Some of it is obviously dated with the advent of modern materials, but it's a great book none the less.
I haven't tested speed loss with large vs. small. No doubt the extra resistance costs some degree of performance, but there will be tons of variables to consider to get specific and accurate numbers.
However, I don't like the noise of larger feathers, or softer feathers, so I don't use them.
I use 4 and 5 inch feathers, both shielded, both slightly helical. I don't notice any difference in speed when shooting till 60 yards.
I have switched to 4" over 5"; could probably use 3", to be honest. I think it's mostly personal preference, as the drag isn't a big factor at hunting ranges. The big feather will help if you make a less than perfect release, though. For 3D or any games where shooting gets longer, I'm going to use 3" from now on.
Dr. Ashby did some testing a few years ago with small fletching. There was a thread about it here on Tradgang. It was more to do with achieving decreased noise as I recall but I'm sure there was talk of arrow speed.
I shoot3- 5.5 feathers always.Always great arrow flight with my poor release. I`ve killed a couple with`m.RC
there is no doubt about the difference between a 5.5" helical fletching slowing the arrow speed down more than a 2.5" straight fletch....but at hunting distance i don't see it making a huge difference except noise.
That's why i go middle of the road with either 4- 3" fletch or 3-4". it's a perfect compromise of getting good flight stability on arrow flight with minimal noise and speed loss or drag.... btq,,,the 3 - 4" seem quieter than the 4- 3" for some reason.
I think the general consensus is going to be that too much feather is better than too little. I have been shooting 4 3" parabolics extensively. The main performance issue is with height, your fletch must be taller than the width of your broadhead. I made mine just wider than a Silverflame as shorter (in height) fletches are stiffer, quieter, and I believe group better.
I use 3, 5" low profile feathers for everything. Shield cut-they are just a little noisier perhaps and that's why the lower profile. If you glue a bamboo skewer in your chopper they come out looking good. :archer:
I noticed on Jimmy Blackmon's latest vid that he was using 5" shield cuts on aluminum arrows. Seems like all his vids having to do with hunting have 5" shield cuts in them. He obviously can shoot far, but doesn't seem to worry about feather drag. I think he said his bow shot about 167fps, too. I think sometimes we overthink this stuff. Paul.
QuoteOriginally posted by Diamond Paul:
I think sometimes we overthink this stuff. Paul.
X2
If properly tuned, one can get away with smaller fletching. Some of the people I have seen need that big fletch. Flu flu fletching can hide a variety of poor factors from release to spine. Yep noisy,
When I have been sitting for hours in cold weather I want all the help I can get with my getting off the string with cold fingers,so I shoot 3- 5.5 high profile shields.Louder and slower?yes,but at huntin distance makes me no difference.
I use 3 high profile 5 or 5.5 inch feathers I like the noise! Really critters don't seem to mind my selfbow make no noise and never had a deer jump the arrow noise. I like RC have killed a couple with this set up.
Just for fun, I shot three arrows today at ranges varying from 10 yards to 40 yards, paying attention to where each arrow hit vertically.
The first arrow was my regular target longbow arrow, which weighs 421 grains, giving me just over 10 gpp in my 40# longbow. It is fletched with 3 - 4" feathers.
The second arrow is a semi flu-flu which weighs 440 grains. It is fletched with 6 - 5" feathers which are cut to a higher profile than regular 5" feathers.
The third arrow is also a semi flu-flu, which weighs 528 grains. It is also fletched with 6 - 5" feathers, but they have a normal profile for 5" feathers.
These are all wood arrows spined in the same 45-50# spine range. They all have the same points, and are all pretty straight (for wood arrows). I would assume the reason arrow #3 is so much heavier is because it is made out of heavier wood, maybe Douglas fir or something.
For all the ranges I shot, arrows #1 and #2 shot close enough together that I didn't feel like I had to adjust my aim to get them in the same group.
Arrow #3 impacted consistently lower than the other two. I would say the average POI was a couple of inches lower at 15 yards, and 8-10" lower at 40 yards.
My conclusion is that weight is far more important in determining arrow trajectory than feathers. Even though arrow #2 has higher profile feathers than the other semi flu-flu, and more than double the feather area of my regular arrows, and even though it is slightly heavier, it still impacted reasonably close to my regular arrows. Typically, if I shot 5 regular arrows at a target, arrow #2 might be low in the group, but there would be 1-2 regular arrows lower than arrow #2.
Arrow #3 would always be below a group of regular arrows, unless I just made a bad shot with one of my regular arrows.
Cool Dave that's super helpful!
When you bareshaft tune do pay any attention to the weight of the fletches versus bare shaft? Not dynamic spine but weight affecting arrow drop.
I don't think fletches and glue weigh enough to be a significant factor, weight-wise. Maybe for an Olympic archer, but not for me. However, I do all my bare shaft testing with a bare shaft that was previously fletched but have the fletches cut back to the quill, so I can eliminate most of of the effect of the weight of fletches and glue on the rear of the arrow on dynamic spine.
Good tip McDave.
My point for snoplow was weight does not matter but how much air the fletch catches may at longer yardages. I have some tuned shafts with 5" and A&A fletches, both 4 fletch, will try to shoot them at various yardages and report back.