As many of you already know, I've been using cat whiskers for years. I finally found a cat whisker combination that I'm happy with. Here's the test that I used to find my happy medium. At this point, I don't think I'll be doing any more experimenting with this set up.
http://rysanpei.blogspot.com/2014/10/a-few-years-back-i-was-curious-to-find.html
I've always tried to keep an open mind when it came to my hunting equipment, so now it's time to try another highly recommended silencing material, wool. From what my trad brothers tell me, Bow Hush and Hush Puppies are the product to go with.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/rysanpei/IMG_5843.jpg)
So now the fun begins! I'll be swapping out cat whiskers for wool on both my bow and Staci's bow. I'll be sure to keep the Gang posted of my results!
Aloha!
:coffee: :coffee: Should be interesting.....
They truly work best IMO you will be happy but looking forward to your testing
Don't get me wrong I do like a fast/performing bow, but have never really been one to stress over the chrono as long as it's "scootin good" for me.
With that being said, I love my hush/puppy, and put the combo on all of my bows. I feel that it takes little from the performance and does wonders for quieting the bow.
I've tried alot of differnt bow silencers and have never found anything that works as well on a recurve.
Enjoy.
Ryan, I did some unscientific noise reduction and chrono testing with cat whiskers, hush puppies and water several years ago. I will wait until you get yours done so not to influence your results. Have fun.
I'll be watching this one.
I have a lot of cat whiskered strings. I bought the Hush and Puppies during a sale here last year. I made up three strings. I like it.
It takes longer (I hate to wait until the next day to shoot) than whiskers but they are very durable and silence well.
P.S. I changed the way I put Whiskers on my string based upon your (S2) videos.
Yep. Paying close attention to this thread.
Jake
:campfire:
Katman, just give me your results and save me the trouble. :D
I'm glad the videos helped Roy.
This one will be tough to compare "apples to apples", but I'll try my best.
As some of you know, I love to "test" my equipment, but bottom line for me is always hunting application.
My only statement here is I'm a wool fan... Both in clothing and string silencing... The actual numbers will be interesting but not life changing for me... Bow Hush and Hush Puppies are the best simply because of the quality of the wool itself... Outstanding wool IMO!!!!
Will be interesting to see your results...
I'd be interested in a speed comparison when you get both setups ready...if it's not too much trouble.
I always enjoy your experiments and attention to detail...looking forward to this one...
QuoteOriginally posted by Over&Under:
I'd be interested in a speed comparison when you get both setups ready...if it's not too much trouble.
I always enjoy your experiments and attention to detail...looking forward to this one...
Sounds good. It may take a while before I even find the configuration and installation that I like best. LOL!
A few of my friends have been telling me for some time to try wool. I just haven't had the time. I have a couple months of down time from hunting, so I'll be experimenting with a few things.
They say it's quieter than my cat whisker setup (primary reason for experimenting). If it's true, I'll be stoked as I'll need a whisper quiet rig for an upcoming axis deer hunt.
Ryan, bottom line the difference in speed is negligible at normal hunting ranges, 2-3 fps. This was comparing full length whisker and full length bow hush at quarters. Using 4 silencers may increase that some. When real wet that increased another 2 fps. Just a pluck of the string nocked enough water off to bring speed back up. The bow hush did a better job silencing for me. Plus they just look cooler.
I now use your method of installing whiskers and 1/2 bow hush per silencer. If I am going to be in a wet environment or one with cockle burrs whiskers are preferred otherwise use bow hush. Great product. Hope that helps.
Yeah...and don't forget....EVERYING gets wet when it rains...NOT just the silencers. All of your weapon and ammo hold water when its raining bringing the performance down. Can't just blame it all on one item, when bow limbs, string, arrow, arrow rest, and feathers ALL hold water and slow down the bow and arrow.
Also, we sell the 'Full' Version of the Hush Puppies for those bows that need the most silencing. Most longbows can cut away 4 strands to start with, but we just send along the full size version to make sure the bow is quiet.
Most of my re curves are 2-4 strand less, and my longbows are 4-6 strands less. So you can modify them based on how loud your bow is to start with. And, you can cut off strands if need be after installation.
Perfect! I was hoping you would run a test like this, Ryan. I have been using your cat whisker system on my longbow this year but have plans to order a 50's model recurve this offseason and have really been intrigued by the bow-hush silencers. Your research will once again be fruitful for the gang I'm sure.
Forget apples to apples......rubber to wool will do!
QuoteOriginally posted by ron w:
Forget apples to apples......rubber to wool will do!
X2
I typically cut my Hush Puppies exactly in half. I can do two strings with one set and they seems to work just as well. I also cut my fairly short, usually 3/4" to 1 " on either side of the string. It makes a real nicely shaped little puff ball. A full size giant puff ball is too much for me, but your mileage may vary. A set of Bow Hush also has enough for two strings, so one order of both the Hush and the Puppies gets me two strings that are super quiet. My Fox, High Sierra makes a barely audible dull thump.
Great product, and a great guy to do a fair test... Looking forward to it bud....
Before I begin posting any information, let me preface with a few things to keep in mind.
First, not all wool are created equal.
Placement and size of silencing material on string will vary results.
I do not use a shooting machine, but I do have a DL mark on my arrow and Staci instructs me on when it's appropriate release.
I'm using a pro chrono with an indoor lighting kit.
I don't have a meter to read sound, just judging using human ears.
Additional, keep in mind that I'm going to experiment with size and placement throughout the test.
Thank you!
Excited to see your results Ryan!
The first thing I had to do was to find a way to weigh the wool silencers before applying them to the string. This took some experimenting and time, but I found something that worked.
I ended up tying the individual strands together. Two at a time, and yes when I do things, it's a little "overkill" :knothead:
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/rysanpei/wool1.jpg)
For my initial test, I wanted to build them as recommended by the instructions, yet find a way to compare them to my current cat whisker set up.
I counted the amount of strands in the Hush Puppy and it came out to 34 individual strands. I tied them two by two with an overhand knot. Right over left, then left over right. I tied, then weighed, tied, then weight, just to get an estimate. By the way things were going, it looked as if I could use all the strands.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/rysanpei/wool2.jpg)
Finally when I was tying all 34 strands in groups of two, I cut them at the shortest recommended length which was 3/4" from center. So the center length came out to little over 1 1/2" and the width came out to 1 1/2". It doesn't look like an 1 1/2" for length because the wool flares at the end, but I measured from the first knot to the last.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/rysanpei/wool3.jpg)
It weighed 39 grains each.
Now for some comparisons.
My 1 1/4" cat whiskers are 8" and 14" from the end of that specific string as I did a recent test. Each cat whisker weighs 17 grs, so combined that would be 34 grs.
My Hush Puppies are 12" - 13 1/2" from the end of the string and weigh 39 grs each.
So now, I have some slight differences. First, the amount of silencers, two small cat whiskers vs one longer Hush Puppy on each side. Next weight, the Hush Puppies are 5 grs heavier per side and the total weight distribution per Hush Puppies are closer to the center of the string.
Here's what the silencer looked like after a couple plucks and left strung for a day. Another reason why I tied them at the center is because this was my first attempt and although fibers will fly out, I didn't want any strands flying out, in turn skewing my results.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/rysanpei/wool4.jpg)
Before attaching the silencers, I shot the bow through the chrono again. I consistently got speeds between 160-161 fps, same as with my cat whisker test that I posted.
So bare string 160-161 fps.
After attaching the Hush Puppies, I ran it through the chrono. It was a consistent 158 fps. Same as my cat whisker set up from before.
Now keep in mind, the Hush Puppy was 5 grs heavier per side and in terms of weight distribution, a touch closer to center. Two things that will typically slow a string down.
So for my initial speed test, they're the same if not a hair better than my cat whisker set up and only robbing a mere 2-3fps as compared to a bare string.
Now for the sound comparison...
Just a reminder...
At this point, I did not switch out the velcro in my limb string grooves for the Bow Hush. I prefer to test one thing at a time. I will get to that in the upcoming days.
I took two strings and the main difference between the two was the silencing materials. I kept the silencing set ups as described above. I shot 6 shots with one string, unstrung the bow, then shot 6 shots with the other. I repeated this process a few times.
I didn't have a sound meter, just human ears. The first thing that I noticed was that the wool seemed to create a different tone. If I could describe it, I'd say it was more muffled sound. The next thing that I noticed was that it deaden the "string buzz" quicker.
So which one was quieter? I'd have to say, given the two (how I set them up) the wool slightly edged out the cat whisker. This was without the addition of the Bow Hush.
Now this is where the test got interesting for me...
Let me start by saying. I totally agree with Terry. If you're going to test for wet weather, you must soak all of your equipment. Plus this test is tough because you can never control the amount of water that will be or is absorbed in that given time.
I will also say, I can't remember the last time I shot an arrow while it was pouring rain. Before yes, after yes, but during, I don't recall.
Some have told me that wool will absorb water like crazy and significantly decrease arrow speeds.
So here is what I did. I soaked each Hush Puppy full with water. Did they absorb water? Yes they did.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/rysanpei/wool5.jpg)
Dripping wet wool
Can you pluck your string a few times will out in the field? (After a hard rain or after dragging your gear through wet vegetation.) Yes you can.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/rysanpei/wool6.jpg)
Plucked a few times
So I soaked each Hush Puppy till they were dripping wet, plucked the string a few times and removed the excess water from the limbs. Then I immediately took it to the chrono and ran a few shots.
First shot was 157 fps. 1 fps slower than the dry wool average. Immediately took another shot, 156 fps. This was still good news...
Because I was taking consecutive shots I forgot to do one thing... What was that you ask??? I took another shot and it went down to 155 fps. What was going on? The Hush Puppies were getting lighter as all the water was being thrown from the wool.
Now here's where it got interesting and I want to try this again. I forgot to wipe down the limbs on those shots, so I grabbed my rag and wiped the limbs. Shot through the chorno again. Right back to 157 fps. Was this a fluke? I need to shoot wet limbs again...
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/rysanpei/wool7.jpg)
Interesting results with wet limbs.
The main reason for doing this was to settle some insight that I was given about a significant loss of speed.
So two things learned. As Terry mentioned, water will affect all your gear, not just wet silencers. Secondly, if you pluck your wool silencers a few times before being shot, speed loss is only 1-2 fps slower (based on silencers built like mine).
Will wet wool silencers significantly lose speed? Not from my specific test and set up.
Now for the unexpected bonus I got from soaking my silencers. While shooting them in, I was trying to get it to round at the edges. Sort of like a short cattail. It would not happen.
After I soaked them and shot the shots through the chrono, they puffed up perfectly! LOL!
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/rysanpei/wool8.jpg)
Now for the true test! THE HUNT!!!
All of this is in preparation for a new bow, but until I receive it, I'll be playing around with a few more things to get the silencers just how I want it.
New bow, new strings, new silencers and still debating on new serving... :D
I'll keep you guys updated on the addition of the Bow Hush and future test and or set ups here on this thread.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/rysanpei/IMG_5924.jpg)
Here's what the current Hush Puppy set up looks like.
Aloha!
Ryan
Well done Ryan.......
Well done indeed!...very interesting results. Surprising as well, the speed difference is very minor, plus you get the added benefit of quiet. Even wet, they performed nicely.
Thanks for taking the time!
Thanks for taking the time and doing the tests. They are a great product.
I see a run on Bow Hush and Hush puppies! Great test Ryan.
Thanks guys! Still got a few more things to try. Hopefully I'll get to them shortly.
I can't wait to see this one!
Nice job bud, looking forward to more...
I enjoyed your test Ryan. Thank you for sharing the results.
Looking good cant wait for the rest of the results.
Well done Ryan!!
Thank you guys! I'm going outside to tie on the Bow Hush right now! ;)
This test will be a little different as I don't get much noise from the limb tips which I feel is partially due to them being static.
Even though, I'll usually use some type of string groove dampener. This specific one was velcro.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/rysanpei/IMG_5949.jpg)
Again I wanted to see speeds with them off and on. At the most 1 fps, so negligible.
Then I served the Bow Hush onto my string. I went about 1" past the string/limb contact point.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/rysanpei/IMG_5954.jpg)
Again at the most, 1 fps loss in speed and that could just be my shooting inconsistencies.
Now for the sound. I'll be honest, I personally couldn't tell much difference between the two. To be fair, I think I'll need to apply the different silencers to a dynamic tipped bow.
Now if we're going for looks, I'll take the Bow Hush... :saywhat:
Bottom line at this point...
Yes I'm going to install wool silencers for my new rig. I will continue to experiment with size and placement for awhile. LOL!
I will give them a run in the field for at least one year straight.
Should be fun!!!
Great info Ryan! Thanks for taking the time to do this, and posting the results. Your experimentation, and insight has helped myself, and I'm sure numerous others. Keep up the great work. And thanks for your contributions to this great site.
As far as the placement of the "puff balls" go, I personally have had the best results following the heterodyning theory. I place the top silencer at the 1/4 mark, and the bottom at the 1/3 mark. I've tried other combinations of placement and types of silencers, but this has become my go to set up.
If the bow only has a slight twang to the string, I've found the wool string scallops from Two Tracks, in the same heterodyning positions, to be sufficient. But if the bow has a little more thump or buzz to it, then Terry's wool puff balls are the way to go! I'm very happy with these products.
I'll agree that you'll notice a much bigger difference on a working tip curve, than a static. I've got a super shrew scout, that is a great shooting bow, but without the bow hush and hush puppies, I wouldn't take it to the deer woods. Now it's quieter than some of my hybrid longbows!
Thanks again, and please keep us posted on your results.
Glad to see your going to try it for a year long test. Long term should let you develop a strong opinion.......good or bad!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Thank you for the kind words Paul!
I'll need to try that placement theory. Thank you for your insight, I really appreciate it!
Have a great weekend. :thumbsup:
*****What I'm playing around with now is not something that is instructed by Bow Hush.*****
For certain recurve bows (not the one I'm currently using in the testing) the limbs from the limb tips can really be an issue.
I wanted to see if I could build a Hush Puppy where the string first contacts the limb tips. I took the same amount of strands (34) but this time I trimmed them to 1/2" from center (this is not recommended per instructions). To keep them from flying apart, I tied the center again. Yes this is tedious, but only takes me about 4 minutes per silencer to do. I also left tag ends to tie to the string once installed.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/rysanpei/IMG_5963.jpg)
At first, I was apprehensive about separating the string near the loops. After initial installation, it looked safe enough for me to shoot. I also build my strings with a longer tag end than "normal".
*****Caution, if you don't build your own strings or know how your string is constructed, never mess around with the twists on your end loops!*****
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/rysanpei/IMG_5966.jpg)
Trimmed down and fluffed, here's what it looks like completed.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/rysanpei/IMG_5973.jpg)
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/rysanpei/IMG_5982.jpg)
Again, testing it on this specific static tipped recurve will be hard. I'm sure that one of my friends nearby has a noisy recurve. :D
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/rysanpei/IMG_5975.jpg)
Always on the cutting edge (no pun intended...) brah; I am from now on going to tie each and every strand of yarn in rather than just throwing half a bundle in there and smushing tight!
You are going thru an awful lot putting the puppies by the loops--twist the hush on there!
QuoteOriginally posted by S2 Bowstrings:
Then I served the Bow Hush onto my string. I went about 1" past the string/limb contact point.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/rysanpei/IMG_5954.jpg)
Again at the most, 1 fps loss in speed and that could just be my shooting inconsistencies.
Now for the sound. I'll be honest, I personally couldn't tell much difference between the two. To be fair, I think I'll need to apply the different silencers to a dynamic tipped bow.
Now if we're going for looks, I'll take the Bow Hush... :saywhat:
Yes you're absolutely correct Steve! My first try was with the Bow Hush. As you stated, it's just as good and way easier to install. Just playing around...
Staci told me the same thing... She said just go back to the Bow Hush for the limb tips. Can't win them all... ;)
Steve, if you decide to tie them in, I'm currently tying two strands at a time. I start with them a little long so I don't have to worry too much about centering, then trim to length before installing. Also, I tie two strands right over left, then two strands left over right... If you want to, you could tie the knots in all the same direction to follow the twists of your string, but then the yarn starts to twist up and it gets a little harder to keep the strands even when inserting into the string.
Ahhhh, sorry, I missed a few posts on the end of the last page.
Thanks for the tips. Is that just discoloration on your biner in those photos of the string stretcher or have you coated it with something?
Just years and years of excess string wax! :D
Has anyone done a side by side comparison between wool and beaver fur. I've always used beaver.
Sorry newhouse114, I haven't done a side by side comparison between wool and beaver fur yet. Hopefully I'll get to test more silencing materials in the near future.