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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Iowabowhunter on November 04, 2014, 11:34:00 AM

Title: Ultra slim diameter shafts?
Post by: Iowabowhunter on November 04, 2014, 11:34:00 AM
Anybody using these? Such as the Victory VAP shafts, or the Easton FMJ Injexion etc?

I would think that if we can get them to tune, should do really well for us trad guys hoping to get the most penetration capability out of our setups.
Title: Re: Ultra slim diameter shafts?
Post by: Bowwild on November 04, 2014, 12:43:00 PM
I'm using FMJ Injexions with Helix single bevel broadheads. I'm using them for the penetration properties.

The only issue (and it's a big one) is the relatively lack of choices for broadheads and worse, field points of the same weight with the Deep Six threads.

Regarding tuning. I shot these arrows through 5-6 of my bows. They were more finicky than either my MFX Classics that I used to use and the Axis Trads I used last year. For some of my bows they were easy to get "bullet holes" (I paper tune, eyeball, and then check with broadheads).

However, I wanted to shoot these arrows (460 spine) out of a specific bow (Bob Lee Ultimate - 47# @26"). It took a lot of tinkering to finally get that one tuned. It would have been easy if I was willing to shoot arrows that were 3 inches longer than my draw length but I don't like to do that. I ended up adding more weight and cutting the arrows 2 inches longer than my draw length (an inch longer than I prefer).

Ironicaly, after two months I decided, on a whim to try a different bow (Habu Mamisha-1 piece -- 49# @26") and it tuned perfectly right off the bat.

I can't comment on penetration in a deer yet. I've gone longer this year (at zero) without a shot than I've gone the last 4!  I can say the Injexions shot in a homogenous foam that they penetrate a couple of inches further than the Axis Trads.
Title: Re: Ultra slim diameter shafts?
Post by: JRY309 on November 04, 2014, 01:02:00 PM
I have and shoot Easton Injexion in 480 and 400 spines.They do seem to penetrate deeper in my foam targets then larger diameter arrows.I like them over the VAP 400 I had because Easton Injexion have a higher GPI.The VAP 400 have a 7.1GPI and Easton Injexion 400 have 8.9 GPI.I did on my Injexion 400 was to use the VAP insert/outsert on them so I could use a standard point with 8/32" threads  to have more point weight choices instead of the Deep Six inserts with the 6/40 thread.They both have a .166 ID and use Easton G-nocks,VAP uses Bohning F-nocks which is Bohning's replacement for a G-nock.My Easton Injexion 480 I just use the Deep Six inserts,you can now get Deep Six points in a 125 gr.My bows I have them tuned to they fly just great!
Title: Re: Ultra slim diameter shafts?
Post by: bigbadjon on November 04, 2014, 01:31:00 PM
Abowyer makes a glue on adapter and Firenock makes great outerts for microdiameter shafts that let you use whatever you want for points.
Title: Re: Ultra slim diameter shafts?
Post by: Iowabowhunter on November 04, 2014, 02:08:00 PM
I use the Firenock Aeroutserts, they work really well.

My only concern is that the bows are cut to center or close to it, was wondering how that effects the bow/brace etc.

If guys are having good luck then I might go with the FMJ Injexions or B.E. ultra small diameter shafts.
Title: Re: Ultra slim diameter shafts?
Post by: mahantango on November 04, 2014, 04:43:00 PM
I shot Beman Carbon Flash in the past. Real skinny, fantastic flight and penetration, but limited to their over-nocks and outserts that I don't think are available anymore. Would like to try some other skinnies.
Title: Re: Ultra slim diameter shafts?
Post by: Bowwild on November 04, 2014, 05:00:00 PM
Full disclosure:

A person who tested the FMJ Injections before they came on the market recommended them too me. Now, less than a year later he has seen some of the Deep Six thread stems bend. I guess because they are more narrow than the old style threads. He doesn't think I'll have a problem though because I'm shooting shorter arrows and I'm shooting less than 50#s of draw weight.

Just want all who read this to know what I've heard. Also, I've had to modify my bow quiver (G5) with velcro to get the squeeze on this Injection shafts.

After all this I'm expecting excellent results when I finally get and take a shot (I've passed on  3 too-small bucks at less than 9 yards).
Title: Re: Ultra slim diameter shafts?
Post by: RodL on November 04, 2014, 07:48:00 PM
I shoot the Beman classic shafts with nockturnal x nocks and zwickey broaheads and didn't have any issues with tuning and they fly great out of my Rainy Day recurve.

Rodney
Title: Re: Ultra slim diameter shafts?
Post by: SlowBowinMO on November 05, 2014, 10:27:00 AM
I shot the old style AFC skinny carbons for years, the kind with outserts and overnocks.  Penetration was phenomenal.  I would expect the same results with the current "skinny carbons" that are available.
Title: Re: Ultra slim diameter shafts?
Post by: Iowabowhunter on November 05, 2014, 11:16:00 AM
I forgot about the Abowyer adapter for "Deep Six" style arrows. Might work better than something with an outsert
Title: Re: Ultra slim diameter shafts?
Post by: Tajue17 on November 05, 2014, 11:41:00 AM
I used to use the super skinny Cabelas SST 2100's,,, they were solid and had the outserts they needed to be cut longer than normal for me but they shot perfect from every bow I tried them on broadheads fieldpoints 45# to 67# it didn't matter, tough stumping arrow and like Bravehearts experience penetration was the best.

they don't sell em anymore and I  had to find something else but I liked them!
Title: Re: Ultra slim diameter shafts?
Post by: bowhuntingrn on November 05, 2014, 12:57:00 PM
I shoot the standard FMJ's and love them. Standard aluminum inserts are 16grn and brass can be had in either the 50/75 break off or a 100grn from 3Rivers. Tune and shoot great. Unfortunately can't speak to penetration yet...Just out of curiosity, how much difference is there between the "standard" and "deep six" FMJ's? I can't imagine it would be much, but the Easton website really doesn't have any info on inside/outside diameters.
Title: Re: Ultra slim diameter shafts?
Post by: Iowabowhunter on November 17, 2014, 03:18:00 PM
The Injexion size shafts are really pretty small, very similar in size to the Victory VAP shafts.
Title: Re: Ultra slim diameter shafts?
Post by: tracker12 on November 17, 2014, 06:42:00 PM
I love Easton FMJ arrows.  I get great penetration and they are very consistent from arrow t arrow.
Title: Re: Ultra slim diameter shafts?
Post by: Iowabowhunter on March 01, 2016, 12:01:00 AM
Up to the top. Do the ultra skinny diameter shafts (Victory VAPS) act stiffer than a regular 5/16 carbon arrow of the same spine?
Title: Re: Ultra slim diameter shafts?
Post by: ARriverdog on March 01, 2016, 04:37:00 AM
I shoot the victory vap .500 35-55 they are very forgiving.  I shoot the same arrow out of numerous bows from 40 to 50 #. The only issue I have seen is the outsert will bend if you hit something really hard. Metal rock tree don't ask me how I know.  I think that all the bent outserts I have experienced would likely destroy other arrows as well.
Title: Re: Ultra slim diameter shafts?
Post by: DanielB89 on March 01, 2016, 09:36:00 AM
They have pretty good penetration on trees.. I wont say whose arrow that is..  :)        (http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o795/wadebinkley/94D1E446-B55A-4B58-A860-197DBC33234A_zpsmubu8buh.jpg) (http://s1343.photobucket.com/user/wadebinkley/media/94D1E446-B55A-4B58-A860-197DBC33234A_zpsmubu8buh.jpg.html)

  :laughing:      :laughing:      :laughing:      :laughing:      :laughing:      :laughing:
Title: Re: Ultra slim diameter shafts?
Post by: AZ_Longbow on March 01, 2016, 10:05:00 AM
I shoot vap gamer 300s full length with 300gr points. So far they shoot with my gold tip velocity 300s Broadhead or not.
Weight wise the vap are 20gr heavier. I started a lower gripper build to keep those skinnys from slipping down. I will be testing the vaps more this spring. So far I like the skinny arrows.
Title: Re: Ultra slim diameter shafts?
Post by: coachA on March 01, 2016, 11:37:00 AM
Do they make a 150 grain point the fit the FMJ without using an outsert. It just a personal preference but I just don't care for the look of outserts. I like the cleaner look of imserts.
Title: Re: Ultra slim diameter shafts?
Post by: Jarrod Reno on March 01, 2016, 12:46:00 PM
Been shooting VAPS for the last couple years. I love them, I've shot with the Penetrator 2 and Stainless outserts. The stainless seem stronger but I havnt bent either.

Because of the small diameter you'll end up wanting to shooting an arrow thats a bit more stiff compared to what you were shooting
Title: Re: Ultra slim diameter shafts?
Post by: ARriverdog on March 01, 2016, 01:48:00 PM
I said don't ask me how I know AND you gotta go and show them.  That aint right.
Title: Re: Ultra slim diameter shafts?
Post by: Soonerlongbow on March 02, 2016, 10:16:00 PM
Speaking of thin diameter arrows.

 http://www.alaskabowhunting.com/Webpage.aspx?WebpageId=2
Title: Re: Ultra slim diameter shafts?
Post by: Iowabowhunter on March 03, 2016, 06:59:00 PM
those may be interesting, but not at $175 a half doz!
Title: Re: Ultra slim diameter shafts?
Post by: Miles Bate on March 03, 2016, 07:36:00 PM
I use 500 Victory VAPS for my Black Dragon ( WARF).
I have also used them originally with the hoyt Buffalo as I needed a weaker spine. The fact is that you will need to make sure to get the steel jackets, and not the other ones . They will get destroyed quite easily . Chart that they have is petty good you will need to bare shat test some. I do have a few laying around. If you want to try one.
Title: Re: Ultra slim diameter shafts?
Post by: widow sax on March 03, 2016, 08:54:00 PM
Ya with a broad head on that would be a $45.00 to $50.00 dollar arrow that's just crazy!!!!    Widow
Title: Re: Ultra slim diameter shafts?
Post by: drewsbow on March 03, 2016, 08:57:00 PM
I have some Great tree bamboo look carbon , smaller than the axis and I really like them
Title: Re: Ultra slim diameter shafts?
Post by: Montanawidower on March 03, 2016, 09:40:00 PM
Jacob,

Nice to finally shoot with you the last couple of weeks!

 I have no first hand experience, but I believe the narrower shafts are supposed to tune weaker than wider shafts (of the same spine deflection).  The center of shaft,because its narrower, ends up closer to the riser.    Having it closer increases the power stroke and weakens the shaft.

Again, I don't know this for sure.  Hopefully someone will jump in and add some expertise.  

Jeff
Title: Re: Ultra slim diameter shafts?
Post by: DanielB89 on March 04, 2016, 07:49:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by ARriverdog:
I said don't ask me how I know AND you gotta go and show them.  That aint right.
I just had to share the penetration.
Title: Re: Ultra slim diameter shafts?
Post by: stickandstring on March 04, 2016, 08:20:00 AM
The old AFC carbons were fantastic. I still have a dozen new 2300's.
Title: Re: Ultra slim diameter shafts?
Post by: Iowabowhunter on March 04, 2016, 12:05:00 PM
You as well Jeff!

I picked up a few 400 spine VAP's, shooting 50 @ 29.5 that's my draw with 92 gr brass inserts and 175 gr heads.

Having a little trouble w/nock height, and I think I may need to cut the shaft just a bit to stiffen it up slightly (full length now) as I don't want to change head weight.

Thanks guys!
Title: Re: Ultra slim diameter shafts?
Post by: Longbowlogan on March 04, 2016, 01:20:00 PM
I just got some Gold Tip Pierce arrows in the mail today that I'm going to try, they are micro diameter arrows. They have a halfsert with a external collar/sleeve that covers the halfsert and a little over a 1/2" of the end of the arrow. Seems like a great design and can't wait to see how they do.
Title: Re: Ultra slim diameter shafts?
Post by: Walt Francis on March 04, 2016, 10:15:00 PM
Jacob,
Quit worrying, just shoot the frigging arrow.