I know any broadhead will kill in the right spot but im looking towards single bevel for bone penetration, but penetration won't matter if you can't trail it so if you could post pictures of single bevel bloodtrails/entry wounds vs a double bevel
I haven't seen any difference in blood trails over other 2 blades.Are you saying that if the blood trail isn't better than a standard two blade that penetration won't matter?
I guess the main question is if the single bevel opens a bigger hole for blood flow
What a single bevel does do when going through something is it continues to spin in the direction of the fletchings are spinning the shaft in flight creating an "S" cut. Considering you are shooting right helical fletches and right bevel single bevel head.
My targets confirm this as I pull my single bevel head from the target it spins as it comes out back through the channel it made on the way through. I haven't tested a single bevel vs. a double but I would assuming since the shaft continues to spin inside a critter and not just stopped from spinning like a double bevel does this would aid in deeper penetration a little.
(http://i59.tinypic.com/658gpc.jpg)
I my experience the S-shape opening does improve the blood trail as the twisting action tends to open a larger entry/exit hole and the spinning action through the body cavity does help in splitting bone if encountered.
With any head the blood that comes out depends on the wound location mostly. Two blade wounds can bleed alot (see link). I have come to the conclusion from all the critters Ive shot with various heads that:
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=132440#000000
Over 55 lb bow multi blade heads are ok to shoot
Under 55 lb bow go with two blade for more penetration.
This is just my opinion and we all have one so please don't take this as gospel.
If using a single bevel cutting head do you need to have helical fletching or can you use straight fletch?
You will get strong opinions both ways on this one. Blood trail quality has much more to do with shot placement than broadhead used. If you blow a spoon through a deer's heart and leave 2 holes it'll spray blood everywhere. If you shoot a huge broadhead of any design high through the lungs the trail won't be as good.
I'm a firm believer in an exit wound being more important than what the wound channel looks like, so for this reason I think you are on the right track with a single bevel 2 blade.
The last pig I shot was at a run and only traveled about 50 feet after being shot with a single bevel through the neck. I hit the jugular, I guess that helps a little ;-).
I like them :-)
Stack,
You do not need a helical clamp to induce arrow rotation.
You can off-set a straight clamp slightly either right or left to induce spin to match the bevel cut of your broadheads. Right off-set should incorporate RW fletches though and left off-set accordingly.
Even fletching straight is better than using the opposite spin of fletching in relationship to your bevel cut. Dr. Ashby says that straight fletch will spin as induced by the bevel of the BH.
Bottom line is match your fletch spin to your BH bevel for optimal performance; i.e. LW fletch w/left bevel, RW fletch w/right bevel.
Kris
I've posted this before, but here's one I actually took a pic of. I've had some difficult to follow because was more like a sprinkler. Single bevel kodiak
(http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww260/overspined/Tradgang/149A19D4-EFC8-4DF2-8F1D-CE8DEF010CE8-178-0000001A8A10C802.jpg) (http://s725.photobucket.com/user/overspined/media/Tradgang/149A19D4-EFC8-4DF2-8F1D-CE8DEF010CE8-178-0000001A8A10C802.jpg.html)
Matt,
That's a crazy bloodtrail! You showed me that last year but that still amazes me!
Eric
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n274/JackSkinner/Hunt%202011/Hunting2011101.jpg) (http://s114.photobucket.com/user/JackSkinner/media/Hunt%202011/Hunting2011101.jpg.html)
Overspined that blood trail is amazing-need waders!
What I like about single bevels is they have a lower angle and can be made sharper. Isn't the spinning in the animal marketed more to break bones? Anyway it might create a bigger mess too which is always good.
At the end of the day I can't say my blood trails have been any different-that would be a difficult thing to test objectively . I think it depends more on what the BH encountered in it's travel through the body which translates to shot placement. :archer2:
It might only be coincidense, but I have had much better blood trails from my single bevel heads.
I have killed deer with single bevels, double bevels, and 3 bladed heads. I honestly can't tell the difference. Some blood trails are awesome, some marginal. The biggest factor in my opinion is how much fat/tallow is lying under the hide. I shot a doe once up at Shrewhaven who had been feeding on acorns all fall....very fat. Double lung, perfect shot. She hardly bled until it started coming out of her nose. Autopsy showed that she had about 2 inches of tallow that closed up like ethafoam.
QuoteOriginally posted by Roger Norris:
I have killed deer with single bevels, double bevels, and 3 bladed heads. I honestly can't tell the difference. Some blood trails are awesome, some marginal. The biggest factor in my opinion is how much fat/tallow is lying under the hide. I shot a doe once up at Shrewhaven who had been feeding on acorns all fall....very fat. Double lung, perfect shot. She hardly bled until it started coming out of her nose. Autopsy showed that she had about 2 inches of tallow that closed up like ethafoam.
That's how my doe I shot two years ago was, snow on the ground and I had to watch close for blood and I had a high entrance with low exit shot, four blade Magnus and still little blood on the ground.
I shot a nice buck in 2012 with a three blade Woodsman...high in the lungs from a ground blind.
Complete pass thru.
Never bled a drop til 1/4 mile later.
We never found the arrow.
We tracked him by footprints till he got past the grass and leaves in the woods and into the plowed field where he was still going wide open.
Man, what a relief when we were finally found him.
He was full of blood internally.
Must have sealed up from the tallow like Roger said.
All that being said....I am now shooting single bevel 2 blade Grizzlys.
I believe in them or the Tuffheads.
I've shot a bear several turkeys and deer,while thebloodtrails have been about the same on the ground,they have been substantially shorter than standard two blades.
I've killed a few deer with single bevel heads. Can't say they left better trails than double bevel two blade heads I've used. Shot placement is the key more than single or double bevel, I believe.
"Over 55 lb bow multi blade heads are ok to shoot
Under 55 lb bow go with two blade for more penetration."
I agree with TJ's statement above and actually will go a little farther. If I can get repeatable pass through, I keep increasing the size of the cutting diameter.
That is if I shoot a couple of deer and get a clean pass through with a 125 grn. 1 1/8" wide 2 blade, I'll start trying 135 grn. 1 1/4" 2 blade, then 140 grn. 1 1/2" 4 blade and so on.
I may have to change arrow length/spine or both to keep flight acceptable, but IMO if you are getting complete pass throughs you are in a since wasting energy.
I would much rather have an arrow hang by the fletches with a Magnus I 4 blade than a less wide 2 blade.
I have killed a pile of deer with 125grn. single bevel Grizz. and they definitely have their place but, all things equal a bigger head will make better trails.
Sean
Shot a bull moose this fall with a single bevel - almost no blood trail at all even with a double lung hit. Then again he only went 35 yards after the shot and was full of blood when he went down. :dunno: There are a lot of factors that come to play in a good blood trail and I think the type of broadhead isn't as much of a factor as it being sharp and in the right spot.
Every deer I've doubles lunged I couldn't tell a difference.... Ones I've heart shot thru and thru I could have followed the blood trail by moonlight... I will agree with Roger upon autopsy of lunged deer with marginal blood trails I've observed a lot of fat. Usually late season deer who have had a healthy diet. I'm a firm believer if its sharp and cuts thru the lungs or heart it will kill a deer doesn't matter what brand single or double bevel
I've shot two deer with helix single bevel broadheads this year. And I've also used the magnus stinger 4 blades on two. (One was initially shot with a magnus and a follow up shot with a helix). I will say the helix on its second voyage this year did a number on him. Arrow blew through the front shoulder and out the other side. Broke the back 10 inches or so off, but still got two holes even with hitting the shoulder. No skinning pics, but the hole looked like it came from a butcher knife an he died In about 70 yards. I don't know that the blood trails were any better, but the penetration was enough to keep me shooting them. FWIW, I shoot a BW PSA 57# at my 30" draw. Axis 340 trads 75gr insert and 150 gr broadhead.
One problem that I have had with single bevels, is when the head is laminated at the point. A double bevel has the edge at the center of the main lamination.
A single bevel must (if you want it single bevel all the way to the point) be sharpened all the way through the center lamination, the braze layer, and to the far side of the outer lamination. Hard to explain in words, but I think you can picture it. That takes a good bit of filing, which makes the head somewhat narrower. I sort of cheat and make the point a double bevel for a short distance and then go to a single bevel for the remainder of the blade rearward.
On my Zwickeys, I like double bevel better for that reason only.