I've been shooting instinctive for about 3 years now and decided it was time to have some fun and shoot my first 3D course. Why did I wait so long?!! So much fun!!The course I was at is state owned and only had 15 targets and lots of uphill shots, nice for a challenge. Shots ranged from 15 yrds-40 yrds and I shot at them all using the only two arrows I brought and luckily got to bring both home with me:)I scored a 205 (they counted vitals 10 pts and body 5 pts)and was wondering how bad or good this score was for a first time out? I'd also love to hear all about other scores and ranges everyone has shot at. Bow used: Bear kodiak magnum-#40,and cheap Easton tribute arrows I didn't care about losing;)
Answer me this.... 15 targets X 10 points = 150 for a perfect round. How did th ou shoot 205?. Two arrows at each target?
Any way you look at it, if you had fun then that is all that matters. Sounds like you did just fine.
Sorry! My bad, should have been more precise. 15 3D targets, 2 arrows per target, 10 pts for vitals, 5 pts for body shots. Target 1)both vitals so...20pts,2)10 pts,3)20 pts,4)20 pts,5)20pts,6)15 pts,7)15 pts,8)15 pts,9)10 pts, 10)5 pts, 11)10 pts, 12) 5 pts, 13)10 pts, 14) 20 pts, 15) 10 pts. Hope this clears it up:)
Now that you've explained it. Hmm. This is my opinion, but to me that's not bad at all. Keep at it. Based on what I have seen going to shoots that seems like an intermediate level to me. But honestly, you're really the only one who can judge because you were there...you have to consider which of your 5 point shots may have still been "kill" shots on a live animal due to quartering away angle etc or still nicking the lungs or major arteries. I'm not saying don't always go for the vitals, accuracy is everything, but a number of your 5 point shots may have still been clean kills in real life. The opposite is also true depending on what happned..maybe all your 5 point shots would have just wounded the animals, we can't really say not having been there. 68% points accuracy with at least 13 straight kills out of 30 with an unknown number of 'possible kills'...I think you should be comfortable hunting, but only within your ideal range that you shoot best at: 0-10 yds? 0-20? 0-25? More? The scoring system you described is fairly lenient by shoot standards. For example, most shoots I go to the X-ring is a 10, inside the vitals is an 8, and a hit on foam otherwise is a 5. Some very difficult rule systems even score a non-vital hit with negative points. I think you should be confident and continue to go to shoots and keep at it. The more you do it the better you will get. Points wise I shoot about the same as you, except I usually do 40 targets/ 400 points, x ring-10 /vitals-8/ target-5/ miss X, so my scores are usually somewhere 255-275. My scores are usually hurt more by straight misses than 5's, which I am very happy about. Lately when I'm "on" I have been lucky to get a lot of 8's and 10's. I'd rather straight miss any day of the week than wound a critter. The shoots I go to are typically 5-35 yd shots...with a mix of longer master stake 40,50 or more yd long shots and also some moving target setups which really put hair on your chest LOL. Yeah the uphill and downhill shots really mess with your internal range estimator :D Also, I find that on more difficult or longer shots I often shoot better because of the pressure...I focus more...whereas I'll get a random miss or 5 on close up easy shot cause I'm more casual. All in all I try to have fun and I feel good about my ability within my comfort zone when in the woods. I notice that the more I practice and go to shoots, and stump shoot, the more my scores creep up.
Most of the courses I've shot have been twenty targets. The best shooters won't miss any, and will mostly shoot tens. Winning score will be around 180 to 190. This is not an ASA shoot; I've never shot a recurve at one of those, so I have no idea what they score there. The compound scores will always be "up," or over the total number of targets, because of 12s and 14s. I don't know if they do that for trad at ASA or not, but they don't at the local courses I've been to.
Most 3-D's I've shot, had 28 targets. 10,8,5. A possible 280.
With stakes set at different ranges at each target, usually, (Closet to furthest) Youth, Trad, Compound, Top Gun.
I shot a 236 from the compound stakes. I was really on that day. I even beat the compound shooter, I was shooing with. He was pissed!...lol
Still my best score to date.
Thanks for all the input, guys! I really appreciate it. Being from Missouri and shooting barebow instinctive I sometimes feel outnumbered by compound shooters, but I always have fun and feel very passionate about keeping barebow shooting alive which is important I suppose these days. I'm gonna keep at it of course!
Cool deal, I always enjoying discussing.
Do not ever compare yourself to the compound guys. What you are doing barebow no sights with a stickbow is in a whole other category skill-wise. They are 'operating' a shooting machine. Don't get me wrong, it takes precision to shoot 12's and 14's, but its just not right or worth it comparing the two. It would be like comparing bench rest rifle shooting with optics to shooting clays with a shotgun, actually that's not even a stark enough difference. It would be more like shooting a squirrel with a scoped .22 compared to killing a squirrel with a pebble thrown by hand.. A 40 yard kill shot with a stickbow instinctive is a truly impressive feat that takes a real commitment of practice to achieve. The same distance shot with a wheelie, heck I or anyone could prolly get the sights dialed in and teach joe blow off the street how to do that in a matter of an hour. To me the wheelbows have more in common with a gun than a bow. But that's just me. Keep at it, and most of all have FUN!
So if a perfect score is 300, I would be trying for a 270. 90% is doable.
No doubt; taking a trad bow to a compound 3-D shoot would be like trying to race a mini van in a NASCAR event, at least in the open category. 1" groups at fifty yards are pretty boring to the top shooters there. It stopped being fun for me, though. I get much more enjoyment out of shooting a recurve than I ever did out of shooting a compound, and I build compound bow parts for a living.
I have only shot a limited number of shoots, around 5, and have performed pretty well in my opinion. I keep a running "score" of all my tourneys and my current best is a 194/200. Worst was a 176/200. Every tourney i shoot has 10/8/5/0 scoring. I always try to average above 8. you will always be good if you do that. Not great, but good for sure.
Daniel that's some great shooting for outdoor unmarked 3D. From what I have seen/heard at the shoots I have been to in FL and GA that would put you among the higher level guys where I was shooting. I am currently very close to breaking 300 outta 400 I think I may get there or better by sometime next year.
194 is a very good score. That would win most of the shoots I've been to.
Last 3D I went to was a 48 target course and I shot a 423(3rd highest scorer for the trad class in the last few years), 8.81 average, the targets have a 12, 10, 8, 5 and a miss is 0, I really dropped the ball too with nine 5's and two misses, could have had a great score.
Oh, a few months ago, maybe June? I shot this same course and shot a whopping 287!!!! A 5.97 average!!! Pretty pitiful!
I guess what I'm getting at is 3D rounds, as fun as they are, are not nessasarily a good representation of your shooting skills. Yes a poor shot normally will never break a 8.0 average and most good shots don't normally shoot really low scores, but sometimes they do and sometimes the targets are WAY more difficult. When I shot the 287 the guy that won the trad shoot only shot a 355. 95% of the time you have to shoot 385+ to even place. Maybe the targets just where more difficult that time, and I sucked it up pretty bad too lol. But if you want to see how you stack up try a NFAA indoor round or a NFAA field round, there are no variables in those to rounds just you and your skills.
Depends on the course--some are a lot tougher than others. Depending on who shows up, most of the ones I attend require 80+ percent to place, sometimes closer to 90%.
For a scale to compare, IBO shoots score 11-10-8-5-0
11 - average size of a quarter inside the heart
10 - baseball to softball size circle in the vitals
8 - vitals
5 - body
0 - miss
To be competitive at one of the 7 major IBO 3D tournaments you need to be averaging 9 to 10 points per arrow.
Distances are to 33 yards for Trad and Recurve Unaided
Distances are to 25 yards for Longbow
These tournaments also add the pressure cooker variable. Every shot counts and may determine if you get to shoot in the top 5 on the third day.
Be careful with this 3D stuff! It's addicting!!
Isn't the little ring 12 points?
Shooting IBO rules on 30 targets my high score was 275. That won the state championship. My goal when I was shooting 3D regularly was to average 8 points per target. That would usually get 1st place.
QuoteOriginally posted by nineworlds9:
Daniel that's some great shooting for outdoor unmarked 3D. From what I have seen/heard at the shoots I have been to in FL and GA that would put you among the higher level guys where I was shooting. I am currently very close to breaking 300 outta 400 I think I may get there or better by sometime next year.
at our state shoot (Louisiana Traditional Bowmen), i shot 3 categories: Modern Recurve, Modern Longbow, and Traditional Longbow(modern=carbon arrows trad=wood arrows) and the actual "State Champion" is the one who wins the wood arrow class.
We had 2 20 target courses, 10/8/5/0 on every target, no "redo's".
MR - 333 (3rd place)
ML - 333 (2nd place)
TL - 341 (1st place)
I placed in every category and won the TL class, which technically made me the "State Champion", but doesn't amount to much. The guy I beat missed 2 targets and shot a 338, now he can shoot! Rusty Horne is his name Bisch knows him.
I have really enjoyed the tournament scene. For my first year ever shooting tourneys, I don't think its a bad thing to have a few plaques and 2 first place finishes.
I judge my success upon making it home without losing very many arrows! sounds like you did good too me. :D
I typically shoot 8.2 PPT (points per target). That's my running avg. I've only shot below 8PPT twice in the last couple years when it counted. At the worlds I shot 8.6 PPT and it didn't get me into top five, there are some outstanding shots.
I shoot longbow wood arrows. TL
How did you wait so long? 3D shoots is how I got into trad archery, and I'm only recently trying to get it together to start hunting. 3D shoots are so much fun, and even more fun when you go to the weekend long shoots and get to camp and shoot with great people.
Anyways, my local club does 28 targets for weekend shoots, but the summer league has only 14 targets set up.
For 14 targets, I'm happy to break 200, but regularly shoot in the high 100s.
We score on a 10-8-5 basis, two arrows each target. 10 for heart(really just a ring inside the lungs), 8 for lungs, and 5 for any part of the animal that isn't horns or hoofs.
I rarely miss the target completely, but some guys are really good and never miss the vitals. But, you have to consider that this is a game, and half of the shots are shots I probably wouldn't take when hunting. Either they are farther than my comfort zone, at an odd angle, behind/around trees, through brush/trees, etc. I also don't plan to hunt big mosquitoes or giant cobras...
I have found that anything within 20 yards is an easy 16 points for me(2 lung shots or better), so even if I don't shoot a really high score overall, I get to know what I'm comfortable with, and what my limits are.
If they have a league, or any form of regular shoots, I would suggest that you go as regularly as possible. I notice that if I shoot in the league, by the end of the summer, my score are much higher than when I start. It also helps to get the chance to take awkward shots that you might not otherwise practice in your backyard.
If I remember correctly, most of the top shooters are averaging around 9 per target, and don't miss any. My goal is to average 8, and hit every target.
I remember my first 3D shoot-I didn't get the correct stake and ended up shooting from the back stakes with the compound shooters. I kept thinking that the shots were awfully long.... Needless to say, my score was pretty pitiful!
QuoteOriginally posted by Wandering Archer:
[QB] How did you wait so long? "
I am 25 and this is my 2nd full year shooting trad. We only have tourneys in the summer around here. I wish we had more, but we don't.
Once you start shooting these courses and keep track of your score by counting the number of shots you dropped out of the 10 ring on one hand, you'll start rubbing shoulders with the top shooters.
A lot of it is how difficult the course is set up.
Good sport!
most shoots in here in So.Cal. trad shooters shoot from the same stakes as compound shooters so the average shot is 40-50 yards with shots out to 80. Most of the time 50/60% will win or place for the longbow class.
An '8' averaage may typically be viewed as competent based on a little better than average IBO and ASA 3D range distances.
A '9' average may typically be viewed as reserved for the elite on a little better than average IBO and ASA 3D range distances.
Due note: that the range can significantly effect final tabulations.
My performance was weak for me this year after 30+ shoots....I stayed around 8.2...enjoyed much comaraderie and was able to loose many arrows. Our groups often focused more on torturing each other this year. I was in no way innocent.
They are fun to shoot, but at times people will get discouraged on longish courses because of poor results or misses. The thing to remember is that many of those shots aren't shots you would actually attempt in the woods. You can be a very good hunter with a high success rate on animals because you know your limitations and stay within them but not do so well on the 3d range. No big deal, it's good practice and good to stretch things out in practice sometimes. I shot against a guy who was a former IBO champ with recurve once. He gapped, and could stay with compound shooters (average ones) on long targets. The funny thing was that he did poorly (relatively) on short shots because of his gap at that range. He was mainly an elk hunter and had developed his system because of the longer shots he encountered out west. At 40 yards, he was money every time. It was pretty intimidating to shoot with him.
You make an excellent point Paul. All of the courses I have shot involve probably 40-50% shots I would never take in real life based on my ability to some extent, but also because they are too far and in real life deer don't stay still, or there are too many obstacles, so many of the shots are made to be challenging for competition but not really ethical. If I set up a course with all shots I'd be willing to take at good close hunting distances with minimal obstacles I and many others would probably shoot close to 100%.
The nice thing about these 3D courses is the challenging shots make you better when out in the woods and its a shot you like.
I completely agree.
Great stuff,guys! I liked hearing all about it! Going to try the course again today:)