I've gotten interested in static tip recurves and was wondering which bowyers seem to have it down pat, in terms of a good shooting bow that is fairly resistant to having the limbs twisted, which I understand can be a problem with this design. I've been looking at Dryad and Stalker bows. The Stalkers look a lot like the Wes Wallace bows I've been shooting for a good while. I'm not sold on the ILF system, as I've owned a few and they just end up giving me more options than I really want or need, but Dryad does offer a non-ILF option. I have owned an RER static tip and did not like it at all. It was neither quiet nor good-shooting for me. Does this mean that I probably won't like this type of limb no matter who makes it? Just looking for some info and opinions from people who shoot them (static tips, not RERs).
My vote goes to Gregg Coffey of Java Man Archery. I have an Assyrian recurve, the bow draws real smooth, and the grip is perfect. The performance is sincere. A short, sweet powerhouse bow. I've tried others and they may have been smooth but not quite as powerful.
PM sent .
I have had 4 RER static tip recurves and they were all fantastic......still have one. I also have 2 sets of Static limb for my ILF from Dyrad, I like them also.
Saluki.
MAP
Jack Kempf ..........The end
Everybody likes what they like. I have a RER and like the heck out of it.
CHuckC
Oh, I forgot......I have a Stalker Coyote Static recurve that should be here in the very near future....I hope it's as good as the ones I have!!
Have only owned a Border with Hex V limbs.
The last five have all been Dryad ACS RC's....one ILF..the other four were Orions...of which I am well pleased
I guess I don't have much to add. my RER Retro is the quietest and best shooting bow I've ever owned or shot, and that includes head-to-head with a Caribow Tuktu (the second-finest static tip I've shot). my Sheepeater Spirit is also quiet and a thumper, although a tad more finicky.
my main question is how an RER could not be tuned to be quiet or good-shooting. certainly don't mean that as a slight towards Paul, as we all have different shooting styles and preferences. I just think RER has mastered the design of statics.
Gregg Coffey (Java Man), Abe Penner (Cari-bow), Mike and Jason Westvang (Dryad) are my top picks.
I just reread your OP and I really think you need to talk to Gregg and Abe.
another vote to Kevin of RER bows.one of the best made. How you didn't like it really surprises me. I own 4 and love them. Draw and quietness are superb.
i have the stalker coyote static. love it.
Have only shot a few, including 2 ILF designs. My RER shot the best and was the quietest. I join some of the others in being surprised at the OP reports.
It's been a while since I had the RER. It was definitely loud, to me. Had a very high-pitched sound, like some carbon limbs do. That doesn't mean it is a bad bow; lots of very good bows haven't worked for me, but they were all well-made bows. I've tried a couple of Black Widows because many of my friends shoot them, but they don't work for me at all. I hate the grips on them, for one thing. Clearly, they make a great bow and I would recommend one to others. Same with the RER: it just did not suit me, and didn't do any of the things I had been led to believe a static tip was supposed to do FOR ME, that's all. That's why I am wondering if this style, in anyone's bow, is going to suit me. I typically like and shoot well with any of the bows designed from the original Brackenberry model, like the Wallace and Fox bows. That's why I was considering the Stalker: the grip looks almost the same as my Wallace bows. My first bow was a Wapiti, which has a tremedous hook, but is not static, and I liked it, too. What I am looking to do is go to a shorter hunting bow without the finger pinch; I have not been able to go shorter than 60" and still shoot the bow well. I understand statics allow this. I want to keep a lot of mass in the riser and still shoot a shorter bow. I hate light bows and tiny little risers. I also understand that good statics are quieter, although my experience with the RER did not bear this out. Every Wallace or Fox bow I've had was much quieter, to my ears. I really like the looks of the Stalker bows, but I've never seen one in person, or a Dryad. I like the looks of the ILF Dryad better than the Orion, but could probably live with it if it shoots as well as I've read it does.
I shoot a short Assyrian horn bow and a Mark Daniels static. I like both, though the horn bow is a handful to shoot as it's unstable. Mark's bow is as solid as a longbow, though. I'd see if he has one to try if you're still looking.
Stalker is a great bow. Dryad limbs are well known for excellent performance.
As long as you use a bow stringer you shouldn't have a problem with limb twists.
As another option I absolutely love my Toelke 64 super static.
I use a stringer on all recurves. Never string one without it.
RER...best I've shot
So, if they are the best then it seems there is something about this style of limb that is not going to work for me, since I've tried one and it did not work for me. I was hoping there might be differences between their bows and other static tips that might make a difference. I was thinking perhaps I might like one of the others that have a bit more mass in the handles. I've been reading quite a bit about static tips lately and had hoped that maybe one of the two I mentioned might work for me.
I totally forgot about the Toelke SS, Scott reminded me. If you don't mind a 64" bow they are a fabulous shooter, probably the most like a longbow static I have shot. Likely the quietest besides a Java Man Helms Deep or Assyrian.
Of course you could just forget this stuff and come over to the dark side and find yourself a Habu triple carbon like I've got. :D Best performing recurve I've shot, bar none.
My RER is quiet and smooth--especially at the end of the draw. It does have to be tuned correctly; right now I have an 8 strand string on it....and if I let the brace height get below 7 7/8ths it makes some noise. between 7 7/8ths and 8 inches and it has a nice thump and smooth shot. I mention the 8 strand because it seemed to be less finicky when I had a 12 strand on it..strangely enough.
There are many good ones around and the newer T-Birds by Jay St. Charles are DaBomb; superior shooters and easy on the eyes. I have a 53# and a 58# both in yew and osage with yew limb veneers. They are beautiful. Check them out on Jay's site! :archer:
Lone Wolf Kayapo, Firefly , and Hill Country wildcat. I like statics better than standard recurves. Timbergost and Bigfoot and Eaglewing also make them and I have owned each. This is old technology and Bear and others have built bows for years.
Bigfoot SS works very well with extremely stable limbs and quick.
Bigfoot or Eaglewing....Two of the best ever.
This isn't a response to your static question but...
I've owned Fox High Sierra and now own a Maverick. Both great bows with really good grips. However, if I buy another bow (recurves only for me) it will be a Stalker Wolverine, probably with non-static limbs.
I had one for a few months earlier this year. It was the easiest bow for me to shoot consistently that I've owned. The grip is a bit different from the Fox. The grip felt great but more importantly it set in my bowhand properly from shot to shot.
IMO RER 'curves were/are one of the quietest, out-of-the-box bows on the market.
Jack Kempf!! Raven or Kwyk Styk
Jim belcher before he bought sky built me a copy of. Nels grumley deerslayer Great shooter.
Curtis and Rick Byrd of Center Point Tx made great Static Recurves. The Comanche was their main recurve
I am lucky to have one. Not made any more
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v107/doublelung/d090f883-298e-42ac-9643-1aef0d9a15af_zps731e6ec1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/doublelung/media/d090f883-298e-42ac-9643-1aef0d9a15af_zps731e6ec1.jpg.html)
Love my RER static tip.
I'm sorry to hear that you were not happy with yours.
To give an opinion on your question..."does that mean I will not like ANY static tip bow?"...I guess you might want to borrow a different brand and try it.
If you still have the RER, you might want to call them.
Pretty sure they would have a solution.
Hope this helps.
John Fazio and Ballistik back in the day. BILL
No, the RER was years ago. I had forgotten about it till I started re-thinking statics again. They made it right; I ended up returning the bow because it just wasn't the right bow for me. I don't think the company is even owned by the same people now. It's not an indictment of RER; it just wasn't the right bow for me. I'm just wondering if the static design had something to do with me not liking it at that time. I read that some people do not like them because they have a different draw cycle. I remember that the bow I had was fairly slim and light, and I do not tend to favor that style of bow. Fifties style one-piece recurves and longbows, I have learned, are not my cup of tea, so to speak. Stalker does have a test drive program, but I don't think Dryad does, and I don't know anyone around here that has one. I looked at Abe Penner's site, but that syle of bow is not going to suit me. The Javaman either, I'm afraid. Those are just not the kind of bow I like. Too slim and light for me.
I called Stalker. He is going to have a demo bow in a couple of weeks with static tips, so I'll do a test drive and see how I like it. That style has the mass weight that I like in a bow. Once again, RER makes a fine bow, and the post was not intended to criticize them. It just didn't do anything any better than what I was used to seeing out of dynamic limb bows for me.
My caribou Tuktu EX is pretty nice. I've had two Kwik Styks and would recommend them as well.
QuoteOriginally posted by Bjorn:
There are many good ones around and the newer T-Birds by Jay St. Charles are DaBomb; superior shooters and easy on the eyes. I have a 53# and a 58# both in yew and osage with yew limb veneers. They are beautiful. Check them out on Jay's site! :archer:
are you saying the new Tbirds are statics and Jay isn't using the original Ghost forms anymore? I have a 2nd gen Tbird and I'm curious what has changed.
Talked to Dryad. Very, very informative. Learned a lot about statics that I didn't know. Very impressed.
For a short static Timber Ghosts are very impressive...great cast to them and quiet.
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg54/PierreLucas/TG01_zps4675dc7f.jpg) (http://s245.photobucket.com/user/PierreLucas/media/TG01_zps4675dc7f.jpg.html)
God bless,
Expect to be trying out a TimberGhost with RC static tips in a few months.
I've gone through four models of statics plus a bunch of prototypes. All of them have been really good bows. However each new model has been built as an improvement in some way over the last model.
If I determine any imagined or real fault in a model then I work to eliminate that plus add too the overall performance in one way or another.
Sooooooooooo,
Mastered? I believe that the current model bows I am building are as good as or better than any bow being built but I am also sure that I can eventually determine an improvement that will require me to build yet another set of forms.
I doubt that I will ever consider myself a master as long as I believe that I may be able to improve in some way.
Models I have built are the Talon, Talon 11, Storm Eagle and Steppe Eagle. I built my first static forms 14 years ago.
God bless, Steve
Mastered, in the sense that some builders have gotten this style of limb down to the point where it shoots well with few problems in terms of lateral stability at the tips, which could lead to trouble if one doesn't string it up perfectly every time. The bow stringer is a given; I don't know how anyone strings any bow without one. If you can, good on you, because I don't want to try it. After talking to Mike, I think I might have gotten too long a bow back then. It was a 64", which he thinks is too long for my barely 28" draw. I was essentially shooting a dynamic limb with extra weight on the ends. I would have been better off with a shorter bow, probably.
I'm another shocked at the OPs opinion on RERs. I've shot a lot of bows in my time - currently own about 20 and have had many many others that I've since sold. My RER recurve is my all time favorite.
To me that just shows how useless it is to get other people's opinions on what a good bow is. What you like is obviously very different from what I or anybody else might like.
That's correct, Whip, which is why I said it didn't work FOR ME. After talking to Dryad, I feel that I might have had too long a bow, and wasn't getting into the limb enough at my draw. Clearly, RER makes good bows, but I've shot lots of bows that other people swear by which I hated. That proves nothing about whether you or someone else will like those bows. Black Widow clearly makes one of the better recurves out there, but they don't work well for me, and I've tried really hard to like them, because everything about them screams quality, and many of my friends shoot them. I also love the way they look, and the mass weight of them, but something about the grip doesn't fit me. I've tried both the standard and Asbell grips on them, but still never shot them well. They are great bows, though. Same with RER; no complaints on the quality of the bow, it just didn't do anything for me, or at least not what I expected it to do, but that's possibly because I never got it drawn far enough to realize the benefits of the static limb design. I've decided, after talking to Mike at Dryad, to try one of his bows. He had a riser and set of medium ACS recurve limbs on hand that I liked very much, and I've ordered them. He was very helpful and his rep speaks for itself. Liking a bow is very much a personal thing; I hate longbows, but that doesn't mean that longbows are bad, it just means that I don't favor them. I've owned and sold a bunch of different brands of bows, and with one exception never thought the bow itself was bad. I just kept the ones that I shot well, and parted with the ones I didn't shoot well.
I can totally sympathize about the draw length vs bow length on statics.
The RER XR I had was 62" and at my slightly over 29" draw I felt like I was just on the edge of fully working the limbs, a 60" would have been better. Whereas on a bow like the Cari-bow Tuktu EX I had, it was 60" and I felt that if I got another I would rather have the 62". And crazier still on the Shrew Lil Favorite/Java Helms Deep I had the 54" was perfect..it of course is a radical forward handle design. Your mileage will vary from design to design.
I really think you're going to like that Dryad. Great choice!
Thanks, I hope that I will. One last thing: I posted this hoping to learn something, not in an attempt to criticize anyone's bows. Maybe I didn't express that very well. I could only give my personal experience with this limb design. The one example I tried was not quiet, TO ME, and I did not shoot it well. Others might have thought the bow dead quiet, perhaps. I was wondering if this was something to do with the static design not working for me or with the bow simply not working for me, that's all. I have learned something, and that is that the length of the bow in this design is probably more critical than in a full working limb. Once again, I have no criticism of the quality of that RER bow, it was simply the only example of a static that I had ever tried. Recent things I've read have led me to re-visit the static limb concept. I like to try new things. I could probably shoot a Wes Wallace bow for the rest of my life and be happy, but I'd like to see if there is something else out there that might give me some benefits I'm not getting right now, even though I'm happy with what I am shooting. I never meant this to be a criticism of any bowyer's work. It's entirely possible that I would love an RER in a different length or model. The workmanship on the one I had was excellent.
Bought a Dryad and couldn't shoot it worth a hoot. Didn't help that the company made it 7 lbs. heavier than I'd ordered. Bought a Black Widow and never regretted it.
That little 52" Texas Commanche static was a bow I always wanted to try. Wish I'd have bought one back when Paul Brunner was selling them in his catalog. I'd still buy one if I ever find a used one. Just a cool lookin bow.
Well, the one I ordered is a stock bow, so I know the weight on the limbs. I know for a fact that I don't shoot Black Widows well, because I've owned two of them.
I do NOT own a Static Tip Recurve I am ALMOST a strictly Long bow man > that being said My son is a Recurve guy and owns almost noghint but Static tipped recurves . He has a beautiful RER PLUS Kwyk Styk and Eagle wing from Steve . Recently I shot the Kwyk Styk for a lot of practice due to me being placed into a Pop-up Ground blind that restricted the height of the bow I could use and I elected to use the Qwyk Styk due to its 54" length. MY usual bows are in the 64" range both D and Hy-brids . For me to drop 10 inches is a big deal . NOW I have shot the Eagle wing and the RER extensively in the past and I am generally im pressed by the smoothness of the draw and release compared to my long bows . AND during that prep for the hunt I did shoot the RER and Eagle wing again to see how they felt . ( all are in the same weight range ) Having shot them then recently. The Qwyk Styk won out ONLY due to its length . AGAIN I will say that there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with the RER but I do beleive that that the Qwyk Styk (Kempf) and the Eagle WIng ( Talent ) were FAR superior. MY choice would be for the Eagle WIng. One of the reasons is that Jack Kempf is to the point that he may not be making bows much longer .
Pretty sure if you did not like the RER you will not like any of them...Kevin built absolutely great static tip bows...he is going to be missed even if the new guys turn out to be just as good
DDave
QuoteOriginally posted by damascusdave:
Pretty sure if you did not like the RER you will not like any of them...Kevin built absolutely great static tip bows...he is going to be missed even if the new guys turn out to be just as good
DDave
I agree.........
I certainly agree that RERs are really great bows with a great design. My thoughts on this have been that the bow was probably not set at a correct brace to give it the stability it needed. Just a thought.
God bless, Steve
Could have been lots of things. I might not have gotten the right arrow spine, for one thing. Lots of people seem to think the statics might need a bit stiffer arrow. Could have been the limbs were too long for me to properly get into the static tips with my draw, which is pretty average. I bought a 64" as a target bow, with a pretty light weight, as I recall, thinking the same way I'd think if I were getting a dynamic limb target bow: longer equal smoother, better string angle, more stable, etc. Lots of stuff I've since learned about static tips seems to disagree with that thinking. Who knows? I'm picky about grips, and it might have been that, for all I know. It was a very long time ago. I know a lot more about tuning a recurve now than I did then. I probably expected too much based on what I had been told at the time. Now, I realize that no matter how well-made a bow is, and no matter how many other people love it, that doesn't mean I am going to love it. If I don't, I'll try something else. No big deal.
QuoteOriginally posted by Diamond Paul:
Could have been lots of things. I might not have gotten the right arrow spine, for one thing. Lots of people seem to think the statics might need a stiffer arrow. Could have been lots of things. I might not have gotten the right arrow spine, for one thing. Lots of people seem to think the statics might need a bit stiffer arrow. Could have been the limbs were too long for me to properly get into the static tips with my draw, which is pretty average. I bought a 64" as a target bow, with a pretty light weight, as I recall, thinking the same way I'd think if I were getting a dynamic limb target bow: longer equal smoother, better string angle, more stable, etc. Lots of stuff I've since learned about static tips seems to disagree with that thinking. Who knows? I'm picky about grips, and it might have been that, for all I know. It was a very long time ago. I know a lot more about tuning a recurve now than I did then. I probably expected too much based on what I had been told at the time. Now, I realize that no matter how well-made a bow is, and no matter how many other people love it, that doesn't mean I am going to love it. If I don't, I'll try something else. No big deal.
that's entirely possible. I ended up using a much stiffer setup than Stu's calculator churned out, and than most people suggested as a ballpark guess. My Retro is 53#@ 28" (I draw a tad over that), and I shoot 31" GT 7595's with 250 grains up front. that setup is lights out, with field points and broadheads.
Yes, Mike told me to start with a stiffer arrow than I am used to for a fifty pound bow. He said a 150 might work at 28.75" w/ a 125 point, but probably will start with 250s for a heavier arrow.
I'm looking forward to trying the Dryad. The riser he had is pretty without being too flashy, and has nice mass (cocobolo and ebony actionwood). He has given me plenty of good advice to start with. I'm going to take my time and not get frustrated if it doesn't shoot lights out in the first few days. I'm ready to experiment; I've been shooting the same thing for a long time now. I am intrigued by the static limb concept.
good luck! I think you will find that with a grip that fits your hand well, and a well-tuned arrow, you will be won over by the quietness and efficiency of the static.
I surely was.
The commanche recurve by Curtis byrd is a great static quiet dead in the hand and fast a short bow a bit of finger pinch if you draw past 28 .If there was atop 5 it would have to be on that list imho.
Border Covert Hunter , by far the best , very smooth ,let off at end of draw .fastest static . cost a lot but if you want the best ! I think it is well worth the money .
There is something about statics and getting them set right for you. Have have tried many kwyk styks and cannot get them to feel right. But most love them. Kirk's SS is probably the best I have shot but still tough to set up and eliminate all vibs. I think I will be there soon with that bow. Want to try steppe eagle but have not found right one yet....
All that being said RER's I have shot have been impressive and smooth ...
Chuck is right you could just shoot habu and never look back. But too fun to play with all these other bows!
grayfeather, borders super recurves do work some, I would call it a semi static, would love to shoot a set but I can not justify the price new.
pamike, up brace a little on the SS, mine with the g10 ibeam is dead solid on loose.
Covert hunter is the best I've owned and shot.
I don't think my limbs would be considered statics but Bob Morrison refers to them as "super curves" and are much like the Border radical recurves. I have a set of Bob's Max 2 limbs, 46# @ 26" which are 54# at 28". There are mounted on my DAS Gen I riser and give me a 58" bow. I have to say, except perhaps for the great Groves I've owned over the years, that these limbs have been the best, smoothest, quietest, most stable limbs I can remember shooting. I am thinking of getting another set, same length, about 5#'s lighter just so I can have a back up if I need it and to have a bow my wife can handle if she needs it and to be able to be comfortable shooting in late season with thick layers on. Limbs have double carbon and synthetic cores. Easiest bow(s) (my wife has a similar set) I have ever tuned. Bob is working on a better Max 3 series of limbs. I need to give him a call.
To be fair I have never shot RER or Dryad limbs so I cannot compare. Shot a Bordere Covert Hunter at the Muzzy this summer and while it is a very different and high performance bow, my Morrison Max 2's seemed to fit me better and to my eye and ear were faster and quieter. The Covert was the same weight as my Morrison limbs and I shot my own arrows from both. Not putting down the Covert but when considering the cost, Morrison will get my call first.
Firefly makes a good looking static takedown recurve...
I have a Dryad ILF, RER, Morrison ILF, Border HEX 6 ILF and Covert Hunter . The Dryad and RER are true static tip . The RER is a good custom bow , mine is just a bit too heavy for me . The Morrison is one of the best wood ILF riser and the limbs are made by Border and very similar to the HEX6 . The HEX 6 BB2 were the top super curves untell the Covert Hunter HEX7 came out and they are in a class of there own .
May life's simplest things bring you the greatest pleasures!!!