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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: dannyvp on September 28, 2007, 03:24:00 PM

Title: Why Osage?
Post by: dannyvp on September 28, 2007, 03:24:00 PM
I've been trying to figure this out.
Why are most people making their selfbows from Osage?
Orange osage is the horse apple tree right?
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: TexMex on September 28, 2007, 03:28:00 PM
your are correct as to the why, I think its the best wood for a bow
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: Bjorn on September 28, 2007, 03:30:00 PM
One reason might be that it is simply an outstanding wood-in the right hands. I recently got a Strunk made osage self bow that shoots circles around glass laminated flat long bows.
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: Blackhawk on September 28, 2007, 04:15:00 PM
Aged osage not only looks good, but it is strong, smooth, fast. What else is there?
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: ishiwannabe on September 28, 2007, 04:55:00 PM
Hey....Im trying hickory!   :biglaugh:
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: Osagetree on September 28, 2007, 06:02:00 PM
OSAGE,,, mmmmmmmm!
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: heydeerman on September 28, 2007, 06:06:00 PM
My experience has been that osage limbed bows usually shoot heavier arrows better than bamboo.
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: mmgrode on September 28, 2007, 06:43:00 PM
Osage has the unique property of being strong both in compression and tension giving it a greater likelihood of durability.  This strength also increases cast with lower set after break in.  It is also one of the easiest woods to induce a bend into(ie. recurves and reflex) without breaking.  Combine the above with the inherent beauty and sometimes gnarly nature of the wood makes it my favorite yet. Have fun, Matt
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: Richie Nell on September 28, 2007, 06:49:00 PM
Another word for the Osage Orange tree is Bois d'arc.  That means "wood bow" or "wood of bow"

It has a color that is hard to replicate. Simply beautiful.
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: ozarkcherrybow1 on September 28, 2007, 07:05:00 PM
I'll have to throw in that Osage has got to be the most forgiving wood for the mistakes that a beginning bowyer makes. It is the only wood that I have found that will survive the stress  of being a bow, when it has bad longitudenal splits in it. Osage is, indeed, an amazing wood!
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: BamBooBender on September 29, 2007, 02:08:00 AM
What I like about it,in addition to some of the things mentioned above, is how little of it you need to make a hunting weight bow. White woods will make a nice bow, but osage will make the same weight  bow, only a lot slimmer and sleeker.imo
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: Flatstick on September 29, 2007, 10:00:00 AM
I agree with all the above, osage was just meant to be bow wood. Plus you can pry your truck out of the mud without damaging the bow  :jumper:  it is just that tough!
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: Shakes.602 on September 29, 2007, 10:08:00 AM
If you can get your truck outta the Mud with the Bow, does that mean it has Excellent Cast?   :readit:    :goldtooth:    :goldtooth:
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: Flatstick on September 29, 2007, 10:38:00 AM
Shakes,,,if the bow is tillered just right considering tension & compression, osage will cast that truck out of the mud hole without taking a set!   :biglaugh:
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: Roy from Pa on September 29, 2007, 11:29:00 AM
I love Osage for Bows.
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: Jason Lester on September 29, 2007, 12:04:00 PM
Just try it you'll see.   :bigsmyl:
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: Ron LaClair on September 29, 2007, 12:54:00 PM
When Art Young and Saxon Pope went to hunt the cold Alaskan north they left their beloved Yew bows behind and opted for Osage... that should tell you something.

I've got an old Osage bow, 64", 60#@28" that was made in the early 1940's. I still shoot it from time to time. Osage is tough and durable and the best choice for a wood bow that you want to last IMHO.   :readit:
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: DaleinOhio on September 29, 2007, 12:57:00 PM
Check out the quote from Meriweather Lewis below.  He wrote it in his journal during his famous trek across the continent.  Seems osage has been the bow wood of choice for a LONG time.
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: Eric Krewson on September 29, 2007, 01:15:00 PM
I believe a well made osage bow will last the owner a life time.

For me it is readily available where I live, and a challenge to take it's normally dogleg, twisted configuration and turn it into a straight nicely reflexed bow stave.

It works easily, much easier to rasp and scrape than hickory and has a wonderful radiance in is grain. Watching those golden curls scrape from the wood makes you feel rich and privileged to own it.

It will make a great bow of any design design, narrow, wide, long or short, doesn't matter, osage is up to the task.

It cuts like a raw potato when green, forget the tales about sparks flying from a chain saw or dulling blades one after another. Anybody that sees sparks flying from their chain when they cut it has hit grit embedded in the bark or hit a nearby rock.

I guess you all can tell I love of osage. I also have enough cut and stored to last me a lifetime.
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: wakolbinger on September 29, 2007, 05:58:00 PM
the real question is..why use anything else?
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: cvarcher on September 29, 2007, 06:17:00 PM
I love hearing about this but then why didnt Howard Hill go with Osage .Why did he end up with split bamboo and finally having that glassed?If Osage was that good I would have thought he'd use that and glass it as well.Bamboo must have something important over the other woods?
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: O.L. Adcock on September 29, 2007, 06:25:00 PM
Good question CV...And why are virtually all the flight distance records held with hickory in the primative classes??...O.L.
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: rainman on September 29, 2007, 07:42:00 PM
Hickory is a great bow wood especially in dry arid regions where they have the flight shooting events. In wet climates Hickory sucks up moisture and changes cast, extreme weather changes will affect Hickory this way also.  It doe's not affect Osage.  Howard probably went with laminated bow because you can build them faster than a stave bow, jmho.  There were a lot of respected bowyers and archers in the Thirties and Forties who used Osage.  Earl Hoyt, Fred Bear, and Nels Grumley to name a few.

Dan Raney
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: 4runr on September 29, 2007, 08:29:00 PM
All of the above, and Cuz it's yella!  :bigsmyl:
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: deadpool on September 29, 2007, 08:37:00 PM
tis might be a dumb question, but has anyone ever made osage arrows??
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: Flatstick on September 29, 2007, 10:22:00 PM
I have not personally made osage arrow s but know a man who has. Talk about a heavy arrow! Most likely if a piece of osage is found that is long enough to make an arrow,,it will be made into a bow instead. At least I know thats what I would do given the choice.  :)
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: deadpool on September 29, 2007, 11:23:00 PM
lol, yea not a bad idea espcially if ur goin underwater bowhunting
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: Adam Keiper on September 30, 2007, 09:22:00 AM
Osage is God's gift to bow makers.  It's extremely strong in tension and compression, can make a compact bow in heavy hunting weights, is less affected by changes in temperature and humidity, is very hard and can withstand rough handling in the field, and isn't prone to unexpected failure.

Do a search on "Why did my my (red oak, poplar, locust, Home Depot crown moulding, etc.) bow break?  Then do a search for the same with osage.  The lack of hits for osage should speak volumes.  :^)
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: dannyvp on September 30, 2007, 09:25:00 AM
Well i hav been reading on Osage some.
And even looking around a little. I remember seeing horse apple trees around but low and behold i cant find one now, go figure.
Anyway i've also been looking for a how to on picking and harvesting the wood. Does anyone know where a "how to" On picking and careing for the wood is?
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: dannyvp on October 01, 2007, 01:48:00 PM
Well i found some Osage Trees. Now What?
I also found directions to build a bow horse.
so i also need a Draw knife. Ummmmm like i dont spend enough money already.
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: Danny Roberts on October 01, 2007, 02:12:00 PM
The sparks off the chainsaw is no tale. I had 'em coming off my chain in a clean log. I have also had the same in a locust log. I would love to find a good osage tree. They are all short and twisted around Meade Co. Ky. Good Huntin'
DR
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: Pat B on October 01, 2007, 02:44:00 PM
I recently built an osage self bow that is 48" t/t, 1" wide and pulls 54#@24". I pulled this bow to 26" with no ill effects. That is one reason I like osage best for self bows.
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: Flesner on October 01, 2007, 04:04:00 PM
Try to pick a tree that has a straight trunk at least 6 ft (longer is better) with no limbs growing from it. Small limbs arn't a big problem as long as there aren't too many.

Also try to find one that is growing straight up. In my experience, a tree growing at an angle tends to have more twist and stress on the inside. Be sure the bark is growing straight up the trunk and not growing in a twist up the trunk. This takes a little experience to get an eye for.

Look for a tree that is 12 to 18 inches thick.
This is not crucial, but you will yeild more staves from a tree this size than you will from a smaller one. Trees bigger than that are a bear to handle and split by hand.

I bet will look over about 200 trees to find one that is exceptional for bow making. I have access to a lot of osage so I am pretty selective.

Hope this helps and good luck.
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: Flesner on October 01, 2007, 04:25:00 PM
As for caring for it after it's down.
Take your splitting maul and at least 3 wedges with you and stave it out where you cut it.
Spend a while inspecting your log. Pay attention to any knot's or "cat eyes". Look over both ends and pay attention to the thickness of the growth rings.
Decide where you want your splits. Try to plan your splits so as to avoid waste. Again, this takes some practice but don't be intimidated.
You will want your staves to be no less than 3 inches wide.
Start a wedge in the end of the log. Once you get one (or two) started, then place your wedges in the opening you have started on the side of the log. Just keep working your way down the log until it is in two peices. You may need a hatchet to help cut some of the "stringy" stuff as you go along.

Once I have my staves, I usually try to get the bark and ALL the sap wood off within a week or two. This will eliminates any bug infestation that could ruin your stave.
After I have that done I seal the ends and the back that I just cleaned the sapwood from with shellac or carpenters glue.
Put them up to dry and do something else for at least a year.
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: dannyvp on October 01, 2007, 04:53:00 PM
Well i may have to be quick about getting them out of the woods. I may not be able to split them there. If i cant not split them there do you just seal the ends to keep the bugs out until you split it?
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: Eric Krewson on October 01, 2007, 06:52:00 PM
Sealing the ends won't keep the bugs out, spraying the bark with a strong insecticide will, for a couple of months at least.
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: Dean Marlow on October 01, 2007, 07:05:00 PM
I personally like to let my osage logs set whole a month or two before I split them. I like my logs to stabalize a little after cutting. Quite a shock to a log being cut then trying to be split with wedges immediately. Let them set in a dry place for about a month and you will have less warpage I found out.  Dean
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: Flesner on October 02, 2007, 09:15:00 AM
That's good advice Dean.

The reason I split them on site is to make carrying them out less of a chore.
I'm usually a little light on motorized transport and have to carry them from the cut site to the truck !!
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: Tom Leemans on October 02, 2007, 09:19:00 AM
You said it Eric!
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: gwhunter on October 02, 2007, 11:48:00 AM
PatB,
You got a picture of that?  Sounds awsom.
dannyvp,
After your first, there will be a second.  Just know that.  And then a third and fourth.  Then you will realize that you are finally understanding how to build a bow, so you build another.  Then your family members want one so ....

Bitten by the bug.
Good luck.  There are lots of life lessons to learn from building a bow.  Good luck and God bless.
Ben
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: Osagetree on October 02, 2007, 05:27:00 PM
Osage,,, mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: Paul/KS on October 02, 2007, 10:19:00 PM
I tend to go the slow route with my logs too.Got one halved in the barn that I need to quarter then I let them rest.I don't like to rush the wood,took it a while to get big enough to cut down ya know...
Osage is just the neatest wood to work with and it is kinda fun to show a farmer what a fella can make out of that #@%!! hedge...  :)
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: Eric Krewson on October 03, 2007, 09:03:00 AM
Back in my osage cutting frenzy days I would always take one of my bows with me when asking permission to cut osage or pull it out of a bulldozed brush pile. After the landowner saw my bow they always said "you are welcome to what ever you want".
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: dannyvp on October 03, 2007, 09:07:00 AM
Does it need to be in the barn to dry  or on saw horses behind it?
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: Flesner on October 03, 2007, 10:10:00 AM
I don't think it matters all that much. I dry mine outside under an overhang. Just keep it off the ground.

I've put staves in the basement of my house to dry, also. Doesn't seem to matter.

Remember, people used to build them using rocks for tools. It's not all that complicated. Osage is hard to destroy as long as you seal it good and keep the bugs out of it.

Like gwhunter said, this ain't gonna' be the last one you build!   ;)
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: Keystone on October 03, 2007, 11:05:00 AM
Every good hunting bow I have made has been out of osage. The white woods just don't shoot as well for me.
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: dannyvp on October 03, 2007, 11:36:00 AM
Well what do i need to get started besides a hunk of wood? I better start planning now.
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: dannyvp on October 03, 2007, 02:08:00 PM
Well ive been looking around. Do i need to buy the Hunting the osage bow book, or the traditional bible 1? Any of you that have been doing this a while have any tools and stuff i may need laying around?
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: Eric Krewson on October 03, 2007, 02:22:00 PM
Buy the hunting the osage bow book, the TBB1 is not necessary. Draw knife, half a pair of scissors to scrape, a good aggressive rasp(buy a 10" or 12" you can put a handle on not a four in one) , half round course Nicholson and a chain saw file for the nocks an you are good to go.
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: Ron LaClair on October 03, 2007, 02:59:00 PM
QuoteI love hearing about this but then why didnt Howard Hill go with Osage .Why did he end up with split bamboo and finally having that glassed?If Osage was that good I would have thought he'd use that and glass it as well.Bamboo must have something important over the other woods?  
Howard shot a lot of Osage bows but like everyone else he was looking to build a better mouse trap    :rolleyes:  The concave Tonkin Cane Bamboo that Howard imported from Japan, he tempered like the bamboo Fly Rods to give the "wood"? more action. I wonder if he ever got a patent on the process.   :readit: ....   ;)    

Howard didn't glass his bamboo bows until the 50's when everyone else started using glass on their bows.

Osage seems to work best on it's own, without being laminated and without fiberglass. I have known Osage bowyers that can look at an Osage tree and actually see the bows that are trapped inside.    :saywhat:
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: Ron LaClair on October 03, 2007, 03:31:00 PM
Osage has Soul    :thumbsup:  

Here's a story about a particular Osage bow that I have. Sometime back in the early 1980's I heard of an old bowyer in Indiana that had a lot of bow wood. I looked him up and went to see him. Long story short, I bought several staves from him. One was an exceptional piece that was long enough to make a bow around 66" and as straight as could be with exceptional grain. The story was that he had cut that particular stave nearly 50 years earlier and had sealed the ends and stored it in the upstairs of his house. I bought the one piece stave from him for the staggering price of $20.00.

Fast forward 10 years when Ron Hardcastle from Texas came to my shop one day. He saw the stave which I hadn't had the time (or nerve) to cut into, admired it, said it was a fine looking piece of wood and that it should be made into a bow. I agreed with him and told him to take it home and do just that.

A couple months later he called with the news that the bow was finished, it came out 60#@27" and it was the best bow he had ever made.  Then he told me he was going to send it back to me and that I was to put the finish on it. He also said I should give it a good name and maybe a little poem written on the limb.

I named the bow   Sleeping Beauty and this is the poem that is written on the lower limb

 Fifty years as a stave I slept

 My fate uncertain, my promise unkept

 For love of beauty and days of old,

 A Bowyer came forth with hands so bold

 He finished the task, he set me free

 To be the bow I was meant to be
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: dannyvp on October 03, 2007, 03:47:00 PM
Very cool Ron.
He should be proud and honored.

Im sitting here drawing up a bow horse in SolidWorks. Talk about Primitive.  :goldtooth:
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: Tim Fishell on October 03, 2007, 10:20:00 PM
Nothing more Primitive than a 3-D modeled bow horse!!
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: dannyvp on October 04, 2007, 11:48:00 AM
Well im having some problems with the bow horse.
I found a document by Tim Flood and im starting with that. I just cant tell how some of the pieces go together.
(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee215/dannyvp/bowhorse.jpg)

Look at this and please explain it.
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: Jason Lester on October 04, 2007, 10:46:00 PM
Danny,
  Basicaly this is a big foot operated clamp. The blue part is nothing more than a ramp to rest the stave on at any angle you like. Looks like it could be made adjustable to me. The red/pink part is the lever/clamp you push on it wiht your foot to tighten up on the stave. The piviot is where the clamp goes threw the blue part I believe. The rest is just a bench.  Hope that helps.

I wanted to build one of these but found building a plain bench and clamping a vise to it works OK too. You may get started easier with that route.

Good luck.
Title: Re: Why Osage?
Post by: dannyvp on October 05, 2007, 10:24:00 AM
I like the idea of a bow horse for camp, seems pretty neat. I'll start a new thread for it.