Howdy TradGang!
My name is Blair Yak and I hail from Ottawa, Canada. I've been instinctive shooting recurves for 23 years with a gap of 10 years in the middle and I've been getting back into trad archery with a hunger. I've taken a couple of target shooting courses but my goal in the next year or two is to start hunting ( deer, most likely ). A lot to learn, but I think I've come to the right place :D
I've recently upgraded most of my equipment and am at the point where I'm researching a new bow. I currently shoot a 35# 62" one-piece recurve from the early 90s that I bought at a garage sale for $10. It shoots well enough, but I'd like to take advantage of some of the modern advancements in bows since then ( also, legal draw weight for hunting in Ontario is 40# minimum ).
I'm looking for a new 45# take-down recurve with offers the ability to mount a quiver. My budget is about $600 - $1300 US. I had been doing lots of reading on the Hoyt Buffalo and the Hoyt Tiberon, but recently found the site for Silvertip and BlackWidow. I've also read about several folk who use risers with custom limbs. So many options! :help:
Your thoughts? While I'm sure I'll buy more bows some years from now, I'm looking for a amazing, reliable bow to be my prime for the next 4-5 years ( with an upgrade of limbs when I need the extra #'s ).
Many thanks for any help, advice, thoughts, and opinions you can share.
- Yak
( apologies if this is in the wrong channel of the forum, this is my first post )
Well Welcome, I shoot a Tall Tines and Brian's base bow is $750 ish. I think it's a top notch bow and you can spend more but I don't think you can find a much better bow. That's my 2 cents.
Bear Kodiak take-downs are still hard to beat. No tools required. New ones come in at under $800, and there are lots of limbs around, new and old. Good luck in your search.
Many excellent choices for you in a Take down bow. One thing you might want to consider is a ILF base bow. You buy a riser [many to choose] then a set of limbs that fit you needs. Maybe a set of 42# limbs to get used to it and still be able hunt, then a heavier set later on. The combos are endless and you can make bow fit your exact needs. Just something to think about and it might even save you a few dollars.......best of luck!! Also don't be afraid to buy a used bow, many good deals out there on some real nice custom bows.
A nice budget to be sure but, as Ron said, plenty of choices in the ILF department and will give you plenty left for accessories. I.E. arrows and quivers. Good luck and welcome to the Gang! :wavey:
First off, welcome! Second, let me make a suggestion...
Before dropping the cash on a new bow, especially one you have never even held in your hands before... Try a used bow... They can be had for 1/2 to 2/3 the price of new and depending on what you get look like they just came from the shop. Shoot it, find what YOU like and dislike about it... As only you can know that! If the first one you buy isn't what you're looking for, sell it and buy another... Sooner or later you'll find what you like and run with it...
There are a lot of great bows out there, and the ones you listed are great bows if they work for you... Hard to accept the cost of a new one if it just doesn't fit you well... Buy, sell, and trade your way through a bunch of bows and find out what you like, and enjoy the journey.
Thanks for all the recommendations, Gang! Lots for me to consider and look into.
Quick newbie question - ILF - is that an archery standard? ( like "these are ILF standard limbs made by ____" ) or is it one company? ( I assume the former since I'm seeing ******** limbs and Win&Win limbs under "ILF" ). What does ILF stand for?
Thanks again!
I really like my Bear Take Down but many good choices to pick from.
There are a lot of great bowyes as Sponsors on here. Give us a look too.
ILF = International Limb Fitting. Its a interchangeable type of limb that goes into the riser. Three piece design.
Welcome from Kentucky and good luck on your bow search.
I'll also recommend the Bear Take Down. The two tone model that I bought this spring-picture of handle below-is a great bow and complete is about $820. Don't be afraid to go used if you can find one (of course a vintage Fred Bear signed one will be well over your price range). Depending on your draw length you can go A handle 56-60 inch bow or B handle 60-64 inch bow. The no tools required of this design is a great benefit. A second set of new limbs is $340, so you could even get two sets of limbs and fall under your max budget or just wait. Of course there's lots of great custom take-down bows out there. I tried and didn't like the ILF route, but lots of guys swear by them. Bowhunterforlife's comment about used market is certainly a good option to save some money if you see one in your specs that is on your final wish list. I've done a good number of transactions here on Tradgang and have had great deals with all. One of my favorite bows in my stable right now is my 2014 Bear A Handle takedown with #2 aftermarket limbs made by RER Bows ( I got on the limbs on the big auction site). It makes a 58" bow and it's very smooth and dead in the hand. With a Great Northern Side mount quiver it's a fantastic bow and takes down in a few seconds with no tools.
side view with RER Bubinga wood limb wedges (//%5Burl=http://s1246.photobucket.com/user/shrewshooter/media/20140908_133825_zps8d58e568.jpg.html%5D%20%5Bimg%5Dhttp://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg617/shrewshooter/20140908_133825_zps8d58e568.jpg)[/url] [/IMG]
(//%5Burl=http://s1246.photobucket.com/user/shrewshooter/media/Bear2014Ahandletakedown_zpscc9949a6.jpg.html%5D%20%5Bimg%5Dhttp://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg617/shrewshooter/Bear2014Ahandletakedown_zpscc9949a6.jpg)[/url] [/IMG]
TJ is right on the ILF......many limbs to choose from. I have risers from Zipper, Morrison, and Samick and there many more. Some metal, some wood. You can also get longbow limbs and recurve limbs that will fit your hunting needs.
Thanks guys!
I hadn't really considered used ( even though that's mainly what I've used until now ) but I'll definitely consider it given the strong recommendations. It makes sense so that I can "try-before-buy" - my local stores are more Olympic archery focused and the one hunting shoppe near me that recurves had a small stock. "You get to fire two arrows with the bow" to help make the choice. The used route makes more sense to cover some ground on what's out there and feels good for me.
Regarding ILF - am I mainly looking for what the riser feels like in my hand? Or is length, weight, mount-holes (I'm sure there's a better term for these?), and material all just as important? I'll dig around for threads on the forums for more about ILF risers/limbs and how one would go about selecting one.
Thanks again, Gang!
I'm a takedown recurve guy, my take;
you don't have enough background and experience to make your choice. You really need to get out and shoot a bunch of bows as there is a big difference plus there is the "what am I happy with"
Some guys would never think of shooting a metal handled ILF riser bow even though the mass and solid feel improve just about anyones shooting. I think its worth shooting the ILF with really good limbs just to compare performance/feel with the other styles- so you have a reference point.
Then there are some all wood bows that come close to the performance of the ILF's- but have a better "Look" or identity
No right or wrong answer...lots of good choices in all of the different styles. I would agree with buying used and if you don't like it you can usually sell it for what you paid for it
Cannot beat a Schafer Silver Tip. you can even get the fast flight model and checkered grip for under your maximum budgeted figure. The highest quality bow made in my opinion.
Of course there are countless good options for a good take-down recurve.
Here's my view on the ideal of being able to try before you buy: I hope you can do just that, but for me, living in remote Outback Australia, it was impossible. So I researched on TradGang. I was looking for good reputations, good customer feedback, and bows that were aesthetically pleasing to me. I've had a great adventure buying and selling bows, hunting with them. And I have settled-down these days to having far fewer bows in the stable. Never met a good bow that I didn't like. I guess I'm a bit insensitive to some of the nuances of given similar bows. Actually, not quite true: I did have a beautiful bow that was amazing to shoot and hunt with; then I bought some lighter limbs from the same guy, and I couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with that new combination, but I was just fine with my Black Widow take-down recurve of the same weight. So that is the only problem I've encountered - perhaps a tiller problem, I'm not clever enough to know for sure.
Stalker stick bows
Stalker stickbows
Hi Blair and Welcome! You may want to take advantage of bowyers that offer a try it before you but it program, maybe some of the other TGers can chime in. The only one I know about is Black Widow.
Give Kirk at Big Foot Bows a call, great bow and he will work with you and tell you exactly what info and pics he needs to fit you perfectly with a bow with a great grip that's gonna fit you, not to mention the static tip recurve is unbelievable, smoking fast and quiet. also like the others said, BW and Stalker offer try it before you buy it, you basically make a payment for the cost of the bow, they don't charge you, and you try it for a week, you like it they build one to your specs and you ship the loaner back. I would still give Kirk a call first
I'm shooting a Hoyt Tiburon now. If you search for my thread I have some pictures and give details I had trouble finding while I was shopping. I know if I was going to buy a brand new bow today I would get a Qarbon Nano. The price drop, warranty, and satisfaction guarantee are hard to ignore on such a high performance item.
Well, I'm sold on the BigJim Desert Bighorn. It is just an absolute fantastic bow and customer service is all that one could ask for! BigJim was sitting on a stand hunting and still took time to answer a question for me. That is true customer service!! Here's my link for the Bighorn.
http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=140392
I have an ILF rig. Actually two now. I really like the bows. Easy to adjust tiller and weight.
My risers are both metal with wood handles. I was able to get a high grip and really like it.
I started with a 19" riser and on a whim, I bought the same riser in 17". I actually shoot it better than the longer one.
I am no expert, but I have learned that when picking a bow, handle grip and balance are just as important as a smooth draw and good speed.
Wannabe1 - that IS customer service...beautiful looking bow, too!
Thanks again, Gang! I'm picking up a LOT of good info here. Before today, I wouldn't have considered used bows, ILF builds, or known about try-before-you-buy. Like Ben Kleinig, I feel like I might be in a situation where I won't be able to try to many locally so try-before-you-buys and a lot of research will be a good start.
I imagine all of the recurves recommended here will steer me in the right direction - any of the above are undoubtedly better than my $10 garage-sale special. I may not find the best bow for me on the first purchase, but I'm sure I'll better be able to understand what it is I'm looking for after I've had some more experience with a good bow as a baseline and a lot more practice.
One last question - if I go the ILF route...is there a good thread on here that explains all the factors one needs to take into account when choosing a riser, and limbs for it? How does one know if a set of limbs will work with a given riser? Is it typically best to go with a riser and limbs of the same company, or mixing it up?
Thanks again, guys - you've been a huuuuuge help!
Do search on pow-wow and look ask for ILF set ups or ILF info. You should get some places to start.
I just did a search for ILF set ups and got 94 hits......that should keep you busy for a while :biglaugh: Have fun..!!
Here is a link with some helpful and concise ilf info.
http://peteward.com/2009pages/articles/ILF%20Guiude.html
Knowing what I've learned, and having tried what I've tried...
I'd look for a used Bob Lee take down. They are excellent bows, and their used price is less than I would have expected them to be. They sell on the big auction site quite regularly. I'm a big fan of Black Widow bows, but the used Bob Lee comes cheaper than a comparable used Widow, and would certainly hold its own against a Widow.
There are lots of fantastic TD recurves out there. I'd definitely go with a used bow first though, until you have enough hunting-bow experience to know what you are looking for.
If I were you, I would not spend too much money on your first bow. It is very likely that you want something else after some time.
Take a look at the classifieds here. You have to donate a fee to get access, but it is worth it!
Lots of second hand bows in very good shape for very fair prices.
In this way you will save yourself lots of money!
If you have questions about a specific bow, you can always use powwow to get more info.
i'll put a vote in for a 3 rivers dalaa they take ilf limbs also it is bout all i shoot anymore
I really like the Morrison ILF risers and the Max1 or new Max2 limbs.
Do you shoot right or left? If left---we should
make contact---as I live not far from Ottawa.
Elf.
I don't buy any bow that I don't shoot first, and I do not mean a few shot, I mean taking a few dozen purposeful shots ! Use your bow untill the 3D season starts again in the spring and get out to some local shoots and shoot some bows, that's how you'll find one that you really like.
Good luck
Most of the take down recurves out there are good. It basically comes down to personal preference. It would be a good idea to find a club or a dealer that does traditional archery and shoot as many different brands as you can. I've owned many top bowyers' bows and they were all well-made, but I didn't like quite a few of them. Something out there will suit you better than the rest.
Thanks again, guys. All that ILF info is great!
At first, the classified fee kept me from checking it out, but based on the almost-zero hits I got on Kajiji for my entire province, I think this would have to be the way to go to pick up used bows. Besides, I'm thinking that the gang here is more likely to take better care of their gear than those not so passionate about trad shooting. A great suggestion - I'll sign up!
I don't know if this has already been mentioned, but you ought to go to as many trad archery meets, shows, expos, etc., as possible. There you can look at and often try out a lot of bows. I go to 2 big events each year in my area (Kalamazoo Expo & Compton Rendezvous), where I try as many bows as I can that interest me. It's a lot of fun, too.
I echo the used bow recommendations. you could also start with a sage just upgrade that string.
Welcome. Also another Canuck from just down the road a few hours from you.
I have to say Hoyt Dorado.. Got one and love it. Easy to change limbs to any ILF set with the addition of a $10 bushing set.
Another awesome nugget of info - I hadn't considered checking out meets, shows, etc. That makes a lot of sense. I'll have to look into any that are coming up and plan ahead. Are there any good resources/pages that I should check out to find out what's coming up for shows/meets within a particular region?
Thanks again for the great info, gang!
Also, hello to my fellow Canucks!
Elf - Unfortunately, I shoot right :(
Your from Canada...I would seriously make a phone call to Alberta and talk to Bowyers Jack Kempf and Abe Penner. These 2 guys make GREAT custom recurves that are top performers. I promise you will not be disappointed with any bow from Jack or Abe.
If you are not in a hurry, ETAR in July would be a great trip to take for you. It's outside of Coudersport, Pa and will have around 20 bowyers there with their bows. It will give you a chance to see and shoot all of the bows.
Looks like it's about 6 hours from Ottawa.
Mike
Thanks for the tip on Jack and Abe. Will check out their catalog. I saw a TradGang thread come up about how very few people sell their Jack Kempf bows. Good to know.
Thanks, Mike - I'll read up on ETAR. 6 hours is within range.
I'll ditto the recommendations to find a club that has trad competitions, including 3D and "safari" shoots and ask other hunters what they shoot and why, try their bows out for feel and ask if they'll even let you shoot some arrows within your weight. Different bows feel different in your hand and and when you release.
Also ditto the recommendation to shop used and not just used bows that were originally top-of-the line. Folks swear by their favorite bows that were "working mans" bows 30-50 years ago. You will notice far less difference between a $150 used bow and $750 used bow than you think.
On the other hand, dont pinch pennies when it comes to matched hunting arrows for whatever you're shooting. Remember...you almost never read about a hunter beating or strangling a deer with a bow...they almost always stand back a ways and let the arrow do the dirty work.
There are some good bows to be found in the classified here, on stickbow and even on the auction site but be VERY skeptical,especially with "as is / all sales final" on the auction site. Ask lots of questions, look carefully at serial numbers, research each model and make and year you are looking at, ask to see more photos and check to see if that same bow has been sold and re-sold. For example, there is a 1964 Bear Kodiak that sold in September for $389, a fair price for a shootable '64 Kodiak in good condition, but now a different seller has listed and re-listed that same bow ( check the SN!) 3 times this month and is now asking only $175...and nobody is bidding because they know there must be a problem with that bow.
So I've spent the last few days eyeing up the bowyers' sites mentioned by you guys and I've been lovin' it! I feel like a kid in a candy store.
But now that I've perused most of them once or twice or thrice, I need to start narrowing down the possibilities so that I can keep an eye out on the classifieds / talk to the bowyers themselves, etc. In trying to narrow down the field, I figure I should try to decide on a length. I've been shooting a 62" 35# @ 28" draw length for a long while now. I was planning on moving up to a 62" 45# @ 28". Does that sound alright for a "first hunting bow"?
I've heard that it's advantageous for a hunter to have a shorter bow so that it's easier to maneuver in the trees. As you gang are the seasoned experts, I'm wondering if you can share whether you have found lengths of 62" to be too long/ a pain in the ass for hunting or perfectly fine? Is there a hunter's advantage for using a longer bow?
QuoteOriginally posted by meleagris1:
I really like the Morrison ILF risers and the Max1 or new Max2 limbs.
I like em too. Extremely stable and a very accurate setup.
QuoteOriginally posted by TheYak:
I've heard that it's advantageous for a hunter to have a shorter bow so that it's easier to maneuver in the trees. As you gang are the seasoned experts, I'm wondering if you can share whether you have found lengths of 62" to be too long/ a pain in the ass for hunting or perfectly fine? Is there a hunter's advantage for using a longer bow?
I draw about 28 1/2" and shoot a 58" bow, one of those Morrison ilf risers with max1 limbs. It's a tack driver and I don't feel like the 4" shorter bow is a hindrance at all.
Another vote for the Dalaa, way too versatile to ignore. It's all I need in a no nonsense stable shooting platform that grows with you and has the ability to change with you. You can't say that about some bows. The draw weight, and tiller adjustments, Off the shelf or elevated rest/plunger ability.
Wanna try longbow limbs? No big deal just swap ILF bushings in longbow limbs to DAS bushings. I prefer the Dalaa limb mounting system over ILF, for me, it's more secure and quiet. You also get 3 limb length choices and 3 riser length choices. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better option for a first bow.
It's not wood, some like it some don't but most wood bows don't give you those options I mentioned either. You can't break it, and you have unlimited options for limbs. As an example, if you were to put 40# limbs on it you can go 3 lbs either way, up or down..a nice feature for sure. So basically a range of 37-43 from one set of limbs.
You also have the ability to run a stabilizer should you choose to, Buy any quiver you want and it bolts right up to AMO mounting holes, Sight mounting holes etc.
Good luck on your search!
If I were in your shoes. I would do what the majority are saying.
Try before you buy.
One more suggestion besides the 3D shoots and the Kalamazoo, and ETAR shoot and Compton's, and the Classifieds here:
Google RMSG (Rocky Mountain Specialty Gear)
Their store in Denver has 250 used trad bows in stock.
They are very helpful on the phone whether you buy or not.
You may want to make a road trip if you need a bow now.
You could get a hotel room nearby and shoot for days, then come home with one or two bows you truly love and will fit you to a tee.
So much information is hard to find in one place, but they have it and they will share it.
Blair, welcome to the gang!
With so many great choices out there it's a tough decision. I've shot about every major brand on the market, did a lot of trading here before it required membership. Right now I shoot a TallTines and love it. I've narrowed it down to 3-4 for the best take down for me:
Schafer Silvertip
Morrison
Talltines
Dale Dye
Toelke, Bob Lee and RER make some great bows also!
I'm not a huge fan of Black widow but I think it's more personal than anything.
Thanks, guys for all the feedback.
MoOse - I'll check out Dalaa, as I haven't yet read to much on that though it sounds very versatile.
beunaro - Great suggestion about RMSG - wow, they really have a good reserve of bows in stock. I'll definitely keep my eye on it.
Michael - great shortlist. All the bowyers have great stuff and it sounds like there's a lot of quality stuff out there. Just by what's resonating with me right now, I'm really liking the Schafer Silvertip, Bob Lee, Morrison, and Border Archery products. Still have yet to look into Talltines, but I will.
Lots of reading to do, and will try my best to get my hands on as many as I can. Thanks, guys!
QuoteOriginally posted by wingnut:
If you are not in a hurry, ETAR in July would be a great trip to take for you. It's outside of Coudersport, Pa and will have around 20 bowyers there with their bows. It will give you a chance to see and shoot all of the bows.
Looks like it's about 6 hours from Ottawa.
Mike
Best Advice So Far!!! If you wait until you can actually get to a nearby shoot or gathering and try multiple bows from different bowyers in person, You'll save a ton of money trying bows and shipping them off to new homes at a loss.
TRUST ME ON THIS. :biglaugh:
BUT...
If you're like me (and a number of us here), 90% of the fun is in the search, but be prepared to lose money (I call it a rental fee) when buying bows you've never handled before, especially if you order them new. Most of the bows mentioned are excellent and most of the bowyers already mentioned are great people, so if you can't wait, it's pretty hard to make a disasterous decision.
Good Luck in your Quest,
Mike
PS - Grip position and styles are going to play a major role in your happiness too, so if you know what you like "feel" and "shootability" wise in your hand, you'll have a major head start.
Don't leave out all of the Western bowyers that do not make the Eastern shoots. California, Oregon, Washington, Montana all have some good bows and many of those bowyers do not make ETAR ect.
God bless, Steve