Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Gene Wensel on October 09, 2014, 06:30:00 PM
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I visited with John Schulz once again during my annual trip to Montana to see my family. Its always good to see old friends and in this case, one of my favorite people, an icon in archery history and one of our true master pioneers in bow building. I'm happy to say John is still in good health, works out at the gym regularly and looks and feels very well for his age.
As many of you know, John retired as a bowyer quite a few years ago, so his bows are very collectible. During the course of our conversation, I asked John if he would ever build any bows again. In fact, I all but challenged him by asking him if he thought he still had the "master's touch" to turn out a few final bows. I was apprehensive at first, as I'd heard top quality bamboo is very hard to find these days and other material costs have risen sharply.
I told him I thought he still has what it takes to make and offer for sale a few "last bows" as collectible investments. Let's face it, as the clock ticks off the calendar years, very few of our pioneer bowyers remain.
I'm please to announce that John has risen to the challenge. He told me has has a very limited supply of the finest bamboo he has ever seen. He said he also has some of the most beautifully figured myrtle wood he ever bought. I couldn't help but ask myself why not use it!
The good news is that John has decided to build his very last twelve bows. Each will be carefully handcrafted and finished to become the last of the best he has ever produced. These will NOT be custom made, except for the fact that some will be offered in left handed models. These final twelve John Schulz longbows will be investment quality, signed and numbered, each with a letter of authenticity. Most will be listed and offered completely finished by way of auction. More information will be posted on his website within two weeks or so. Contact John via his website or you can contact me at [email protected] if you need to. Thanks.
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:thumbsup:
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He's one of my heroes and makes a longbow second to none. I'm really happy to see this, but I'm sure I'll never be able to afford one.
Thanks for the heads up Gene.
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What Charlie said. Probably way above my pay grade, but those with the finances will score a great bow.
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Time to start saving!! ;)
It is a joy to hear of someone like John getting use his skills once more, I firmly believe one should use ones talents for as long as one is able and benefits from it.
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No probably to it for me it will be above my pay grade. What a shame that the average joe can't afford a piece of history like that. Glad to hear he is doing good and bless him for building the bows as long as people don't try to profit off he's good nature and work.
In the mean time I will just keep building bows that look like his and dreaming of one day seeing one in person.
Tracy
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I wish we had more interviews and shooting lessons on video from these old timers .....I appreciate their great knowledge and experience....love learning from them....
I can't afford one but cant wait to at least see a pic of one.
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By the way, I am already the proud owner of multiple bows made by John as well as two of his own personal bows. I'm not making a dime off this post and don't expect anything in return. Just making the announce public as a proud friend.
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Didn't mean you Gene sorry if it came off that way :knothead:
I was talking about the winners of the bows and later but stuff happens. Thanks for sharing with us
Tracy
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No offense taken Tracy. I just figured maybe some people might be thinking I'm setting myself up for some sort of gain. Not so. Thanks.
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Looks like I will be selling my BMW, but I am going for it.
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Originally posted by Charlie Lamb:
He's one of my heroes and makes a longbow second to none. I'm really happy to see this, but I'm sure I'll never be able to afford one.
Thanks for the heads up Gene.
X2
Wish him the best on this final project, he has been a huge influence on me.
If I ever did manage to aquire one of these, I'm afraid it wouldnt look like a collectors piece for long, cause we're goin to the woods!
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We're close enough to split one Eric. You keep it January to June and I'll take leftovers of July through December. :p
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MY HH BIg 5 ( and my brother-in-laws) were two of the last bows John Built for HH Company . We had them delivered about a month before the Penna Bow Hunters festival and John helped us set the brace height correctly and gave us some fine points on the bow and also gave us one of his books.
Still have that bow and you can tell its one of Johns right off by the look . He onoy lasted a few months before he opened his own company .
Had a couple of offers on it over the years because John built it but none I wanted to take as of yet LOL !
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Possibly one of them could be offered by a raffle.
That way you would not have to have deep pockets to possibly own one. It would be a long shot. Just a thought.
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Ray...what you gonna do with a LH bow... :D
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Originally posted by Hermon:
Possibly one of them could be offered by a raffle.
That way you would not have to have deep pockets to possibly own one. It would be a long shot. Just a thought.
I would buy some tickets. Good idea.
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Hope he makes a few between 55 and 60 pounds...
Many of us aren't capable of the heavy weights anymore...
Hmm, now what can I sell.............
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Originally posted by WESTBROOK:
Ray...what you gonna do with a LH bow... :D
Eric,
You can just shoot standing in front of a mirror. :jumper:
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I'll be bidding that's for sure.
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Originally posted by centaur:
Originally posted by Hermon:
Possibly one of them could be offered by a raffle.
That way you would not have to have deep pockets to possibly own one. It would be a long shot. Just a thought.
I would buy some tickets. Good idea. [/b]
That is not a good idea, that is a GREAT idea. I will make sure Gene sees that and passes it on to John.
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What is the ballpark $$ for these bows...1k or 10k give or take 3k? Will he trade for a teenager? Hahaha!!
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Lord bless my family and please give me a fighten chance at one of those bows. Just practicing my nightly prayer until they are all gone. Now how does one approach the Bank for a loan for a bow?
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Gene,
what is his website? I wasnt aware there ever was one.I did a search, but there was just general forum topic info.
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Very cool.
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Originally posted by centaur:
Originally posted by Hermon:
Possibly one of them could be offered by a raffle.
That way you would not have to have deep pockets to possibly own one. It would be a long shot. Just a thought.
I would buy some tickets. Good idea. [/b]
^^^^ x2 or 3
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Matty. Try. Johnschulzstraightshooting.com. It doesn't give you much info . But if you hit the speaking ingagements info it will give you a email form to submit info on the parting shot longbow . I sent it out but no reply yet.
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12 only, that is going to be next to impossible to get my hands on one. Congrats on whomever does, they will be a real treat.
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I'ed like one in the 62 # range...that is if I could afford one. Guess I'ed better start saving if I want to add a John Shultz longbow to my bowrack. By the way Gene, that was a great idea you had to preserve Mr. Shultz's master bow-building skills not to mention preserve a critical link to our traditional bowhunting legacy.
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Not to worry Gene both you and Barry are first class and that your reputation is solid.
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Gene,
It would be nice if the rest of us could at least see these bows as they come to completion. Perhaps a photo file of John's last twelve?
I had heard John was living in Missouri prior to Montana, is that correct? Could you write an article based on this conversation/interview with him? That would be nice; many would love to hear this insight, if not too personal or other.
Thanks for posting...
Kris
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I think this is Mr.Shulz website: www.johnschulzstraightshooting.com (http://www.johnschulzstraightshooting.com)
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What he could do for the masses would be to republish "Straight Shooting" and the DVD "Hitting em like Howard Hill". The DVD exists on Youtube, but the audio/video quality is so poor compared to the original, and "Straight Shooting" is a book many will read repeatedly.
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I can completey agree with Mr Green above. The video on youtube is next to useless when it comes to detail. I would happily part with 20 dollars for a decent DVD.
I have not had the pleasure of reading his book, but like most trad archer's have quite a book collection. No doubt his book would join it. He would not be wasting his time republishing that. Although I guess it is not so easy to make happen, for a niche area as archery.
Alex
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Originally posted by Green:
What he could do for the masses would be to republish "Straight Shooting" and the DVD "Hitting em like Howard Hill". The DVD exists on Youtube, but the audio/video quality is so poor compared to the original, and "Straight Shooting" is a book many will read repeatedly.
x2
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Originally posted by centaur:
Originally posted by Green:
What he could do for the masses would be to republish "Straight Shooting" and the DVD "Hitting em like Howard Hill". The DVD exists on Youtube, but the audio/video quality is so poor compared to the original, and "Straight Shooting" is a book many will read repeatedly.
x2 [/b]
Great idea...
Gene with your experience in getting published and your contacts perhaps you could steer or assist John in this..
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I have tried to find his book in the aftermarket and have been unsuccessful. His used bows just may be easier to find.
John Schulz's teaching ability is at least(or more) as valuable as his bows and I would love to see a reprint of his book. I have watched his video many times to refresh.
Thanks to all those putting their energy into this project.
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I know that Nate Steen was in talks with John several months ago about re-releasing the DVD, and it was reported that this was going to happen, but I think John chose this course instead.
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Originally posted by Green:
What he could do for the masses would be to republish "Straight Shooting" and the DVD "Hitting em like Howard Hill". The DVD exists on Youtube, but the audio/video quality is so poor compared to the original, and "Straight Shooting" is a book many will read repeatedly.
YES
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Tagging on
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Cool...really cool.
I have the DVD I think, or VHS, heck, its been so long since I've seen it I can't remember. But I really enjoyed it back then and watched it more than once.
Great to hear about the Dashing Dozen. :campfire:
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It would be awesome to have another DVD...escpecially with more details and stories and some of what he has learned.
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Man I would love to have another copy of "Hitting em like Howard Hill". Loaned my copy many years ago and it never came home. I watched it over and over. One of my favorites.
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Well, it is nice there will be a few more bows built but kind of a croc they will be anything but unattainable.
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It would be nice if he offered up one lefty and one righty at a set price to be offered to a buyer by lottery draw.
Let's say he sets the price at 1,500.00. Those who put their names in get drawn. If you don't pay in X number of days, it's offered to the next draw.
That way at least folks like me might be able to scrape up the funds to have a hope of owning one. Even $1500 would be a push for me but if given the chance, I'd get it somehow. Otherwise, only those financially able will get these bows. I can only imagine what they'll go for.
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Originally posted by Hermon:
Possibly one of them could be offered by a raffle.
That way you would not have to have deep pockets to possibly own one. It would be a long shot. Just a thought.
That is an idea with alot of merit! Don't know if it could be done, but I bet it would get an incredible response.
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For those interested in seeing what these look like, there are now pics on John's site of the first 4. Check it out: http://www.johnschulzstraightshooting.com/the-parting-shot/
All I can say is - WOW!!!!
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Originally posted by meatCKR:
All I can say is - WOW!!!!
X2
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Looks as if the first four are going to *bay. Wonder how the bidding will go...... :saywhat:
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All I can do is look and drool.
Those are some sweet looking bows!
God bless,Mudd
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Just like my David miller split bamboo. But then Dave learned from John . I wonder if they shoot the same and have the same feel ? Wouldn't mine having one though . Dave's shoot great.
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Interesting.
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Allfather help me if there's a lefty, LOL
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Chuck,
You are safe, at least with the first 4 ! :biglaugh:
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Good for him. They look like nice bows. I'm all for capitalism, so I hope he makes a killing and helps fund a comfy retirement.
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Originally posted by TxAg:
Good for him. They look like nice bows. I'm all for capitalism, so I hope he makes a killing and helps fund a comfy retirement.
x2
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imho, it would be a truly great coup to get one of those last parting shot longbows. the pics he put up of the first four completed are just drop dead gorgeous ...
(http://static.squarespace.com/static/539a3dcce4b073b8e74e82b6/t/544f10ece4b0fb9cefacd4fb/1414467875181/?format=1000w)
(http://static.squarespace.com/static/539a3dcce4b073b8e74e82b6/t/544f0ee1e4b053b088f827cc/1414467316307/?format=500w)
THE PARTING SHOT ........
(http://static.squarespace.com/static/539a3dcce4b073b8e74e82b6/t/540e4594e4b081123107c72a/1410221462339/?format=500w)
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WOW
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I spoke to John again the other day concerning his Parting Shot bows. He said the first ones should go on the auction block next week at the latest. Check his website for updated info as soon as it becomes available. Should be within a week. I did find out that they will NOT all be 66" but only patterned after Howard's favorite 66 incher. One will be 60". The two left handed ones will be 64" and 62". He is very pleased with his efforts so far. The man still has it!
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Judging from the pictures, the four look a good as ever, and amazing bows to shoot. :campfire:
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Those are very impressive.
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Wow...those are gorgeous!!
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Any word on John's speaking engagements?
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Time to bring this back to the top. These bows are going to auction very soon. I sure won't be able to afford one, but it will be fun to watch them go!
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December is almost over. Anyone heard anything about when they will go up for auction?
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Someone on another site mentioned that they spoke to John recently and he said he had a couple more of the bows to complete. Should be soon.
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So John is waiting until all 12 bows are finished before selling any? I'm very interested to see how much these bows sell for...
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Site lists first bow (which is actually #2) goes up for auction on January 5th!!!!!!
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I've got this one ounce pristine 150 year old gold coin, whatever the coin dealer says it is worth, that will be my max bid.
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Get several appraisals pavan. My bet is your coin is worth quite a bit.
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Yes, for sure, and people scoff at those little plastic cases in the bottom of my one gallon change jar.
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Does anybody have any opinion, or experience, on how these last bows will shoot? I have shot a number of Hill style bows before. They were nice bows, but I didn't care for the hand shock. With this being sting follow bows, I wonder how much hand shock one will feel. Would appreciate any opinions. I am looking at one of the lighter bows, such as the 48#
Thanks,
Chris
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Like the other all bamboo bows, they will be slower than what most are used to, but just a little. Even though hand thump is minimal, to get the most out of the bow, I think, they would shoot best with some form of a Hill type form. You can have the 48, my Hill form draw would make that bow come in too light for me.
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honestly I don't know how much I'd abuse these bows....I'd use one a little maybe, but I wouldn't turn this into a daily shooter imho.
not that these bows are not capable, but you are NEVER going to be able to replace it, EVER!
You're investing in a piece of history that likely will never be seen again by Johns hands! there are others who make these style of bows I'd look at if I was interested in buying a daily shooter.
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Originally posted by SquareHead:
Does anybody have any opinion, or experience, on how these last bows will shoot? I have shot a number of Hill style bows before. They were nice bows, but I didn't care for the hand shock. With this being sting follow bows, I wonder how much hand shock one will feel. Would appreciate any opinions. I am looking at one of the lighter bows, such as the 48#
Thanks,
Chris
It appears that they are the same design as the Miller Split Bamboo which John Shulz schooled David Miller. The bow is blue printed from the original design used by Hill's early split bamboo bows. I own two of David's bows. They are different from the glass bows in that the brace height is about 5.5" with mild string follow. They are smooth with no felt hand shock and cast an arrow as about as well as s glassed bow. They are beautiful bows and meant to be shot. IMO
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Originally posted by SquareHead:
Does anybody have any opinion, or experience, on how these last bows will shoot?
don't know 'bout dat, but i doubt any of 'em will be a dog when it comes to performance
I have shot a number of Hill style bows before. They were nice bows, but I didn't care for the hand shock. With this being sting follow bows, I wonder how much hand shock one will feel.
string follow longbows of proper length will typically be smoother on both the draw and release. imo, "hand shock" has more to do with the shooter and how the bow is gripped. if you do the howard hill full death grip and heel the handle, you'll get some amount of shock from any american flat longbow. but if you allow the the web of yer bow hand and just the meat of yer thumb to make handle contact, with that bow hand angled slightly outward, there will be little to no shock from any stick bow.
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Well Gang, not to boast, in the year 2000, I used a 63"67@25" all natural John made for me to win the Primitive Division of the "Howard Hill World Longbow Recurve Championship"
The event was billed "The Final Chapter" I still have that bow! It is a sweet shooting no handshock, great cast, very accurate shooting bow! The wood arrows were spined 65-70 pounds, weighing in at 545 grains, with 145 grain tips upfront, they were painted white, with white fletching red nocks, with one narrow red pinstripe on the shafts! Sixteen of the twent eight targets my arrow was the only one in the target! The top five guys I shot with kept saying, "your tearing em up!" Referring to the way Howard would tear a five pound butter box to tiny pieces, practicing at forty yards, shooting into his sandbank! It was a great adventure, traveling to Wilsonville , Alabama, and coming home the winner!
I used that bow to take a very nice eight point buck in my hometown, Goffstown, N.H. Before I retired it! It has a place of Honor in my home! Enjoy, anyone who gets one of these bows, is going to get a great piece of John and the history of archery! Jacques
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I think string follows feel smoother on the draw because they have less resistance at the beginning of the draw where the muscles are the weakest and they pick up the difference at the end of the draw,(it has to come in somewhere), where the drawing muscles are the strongest. I shot a longbow once that had so much handshock that my eye ball popped out of the socket and my right ear folded over. Just kidding, I have shot recurves that have more hand rattling than the longbows that I have now. I do wonder, besides the historic value and shooting feel of these, if they will really shoot as good as my mild R/D bows or my Morningstar. It could get to be a lot of money spent if they don't. It is important for me to have some forgiveness in draw length variables from varied shooting positions, it is something that I always question and never come up with a definitive answer as too which bow is better as they are so close to each other.
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Something of note: Howard set all his records with selfbows and split bamboo! After he started using glass on his bows he never set a new record! Interesting to say the least! Jacques
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Originally posted by Jacquesbonin:
Something of note: Howard set all his records with selfbows and split bamboo! After he started using glass on his bows he never set a new record! Interesting to say the least! Jacques
i think he just got too old and less interested in target shooting. :D
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I own several all wood Schulz and Miller bows and have shot them for about 4-5 yrs. I like the bows, but it is important to remember, they are more like a self-bow than a laminated glass bow. If you have shot a nice self bow, then you know what to expect.
In comparing the glass and the wood, the glass will probably last longer, will shoot faster, and will be more tolerant to handling. You can't string a self bow or one of these and leave it strung, because you leave yours strung on a bow rack for days on end. You can't let others shoot it, when they draw 28.5" or more when it was made for a 28" draw. You can't flex the bow backwards to take out the string follow, because you think it looks odd.
If you are fortunate to own one, treat it with respect and it will serve you well. I like to think of them as a bow with a memory.
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Starting bid $3500
:scared: :dunno:
Good luck to those who can play that game...!
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Just went on e bay to see johns parting shot . Wow ! I guess I'm out. With those prices. I think the bows will be around for awhile. . I'm sure glad I have Dave miller spilt bamboo !!!
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:scared: I had thought that I might be able to place a bid and say that I was in the lead for awhile. At that price, I won't be able to say that....
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Well, it was fun to dream about owning one for a while...
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I am all for Capitalism and I hope they make as much money as possible, but it just saddens me a bit to know at that price, none of these bows will see a day in the field hunting. They are investments and will most likely be wall hangers. Like watching a beautiful horse that was born to run stuck in a cage. No ones fault, it just is what it is. Heck, If I paid that much for a bow, it would be on the wall and only the wall for sure. Mr. Schulz's place in Archery History is cemented and these bows look to be tremendous reminders of the kind of skill he brought to the craft. Besides that, they're just pretty to look at! (as I wipe drool from my chin.)
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The first one may go for as much $4500. I don't have a $4500 wall to hang it on. For that kind of money, I will not be playing. I am quite honestly disappointed, the Hill legacy does not hang on walls. It is in the hands of adventurous folks using their bows and arrows in the outdoors, individualists that are not part of the wealthy elite club.
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How about a drawing so some of us middle class folks could at least have a shot at owning one.
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Howard Hill Archery has a new model coming out that more of us can afford and last time I checked, they are a TG sponsor. A starting bid of $3500 is too greedy for me, I will not be bidding on any them no matter what they go for. When a line gets crossed there is no back tracking for me, as far as I am concerned the line has been crossed. No sweat in any case I think that I would like to get that new model bow that Craig has in the works anyway.
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Wow, $3500 starting price is pretty surprising, 2x to 3x more than I would have thought. Makes me wonder what a bow made personally by Howard Hill would list at.
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My best friend took John's bow building class in '88. One of the first things John told him upon completion of the course..?... Dont ever sell your bows cheap!
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Interesting to say the least! I don't think we are dealing with greed here. I think we are dealing the a master bowyer coming to the end of his career and trying to go out with 12 last pieces of art. The last 12 pieces of functional art that he will always to remembered fondly by. :notworthy: but everyone has a ceiling to what they can personally pay for a bow. Then again maybe there is 12 millionaires out there looking for a new bow! The free market will sort it out.
Lets keep comments positive and just see how this all plays out; lots of things can change in a auction and nothing is final till its SOLD!
Just my opinion; I respect yours too!
:pray:
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Way out of my league. I can respect the admiration but I can't justify paying that much for a tool that I can pay significantly lower to purchase a tool that is more than equal to the task. That being said more power for whomever buys one. To pay that much only to be a collection item is just not my cup of tea.
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Heck, they aren't priced that much more than a new Habu or a tricked out Silvertip? And there will only be 12 of these in existence.
I was guessing/hoping they would've gone in the 1500-2000 range. Shows how much I know about collector bow values. :knothead: ...
In the meanwhile I'll consider myself fortunate to own a John Schulz "Granpa" from the 90's. Occasionally it's future value causes me hesitation to hunt with it, but that's what they were built for. And I will continue to do just that with it until the day it decides to give up the ghost...
I too hope this thread stays positive and supportive of John's Parting shot bows. Worth every penny in my book.
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Originally posted by pavan:
The first one may go for as much $4500. I don't have a $4500 wall to hang it on. For that kind of money, I will not be playing. I am quite honestly disappointed, the Hill legacy does not hang on walls. It is in the hands of adventurous folks using their bows and arrows in the outdoors, individualists that are not part of the wealthy elite club.
This about sums it up for me.
Well said.
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Thank you Mr.Schulz for all you have done for us. Hope you get a LOT MORE then you are wanting. BEST OF LUCK, You have earned it!! ..OE
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:archer:
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The heirs of Cy Johnson, sold a bow Howard made for Cy back in the 1930's on Eb.. for $8,000. It was typical of Hill's bows but had 2 1/2" backset, probably kicked terribly, in VG condition according to the owner. The sale was in Dec./Jan 2011. I am not trying suggest these bows would appreciate in a similar manner.
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I hope John gets considerably more than the starting price for these bows. He has been a great ambassador for Traditional Archery and has spent a lifetime of giving selflessly of himself. I've met John several times and have attended his seminars and shooting clinics, all of which he presented for FREE. What a great way to retire by offering a limited addition of collector bows. I think it's outstanding that he came out of retirement to offers these. I also cannot consider one because of price, but do not begrudge John or the lucky buyers. They'll be worth every dollar that they sell for. He deserves our appreciation for all he's done for us, and I offer him my utmost! God bless John Schulz!
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Guess I will just have to shoot my Berrys and Hills with the rest of the enlisted swine.
I hope that John Schulz gets a whole bunch for these bows; he has done a lot for our sport over the years.
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Originally posted by jmahma:
How about a drawing so some of us middle class folks could at least have a shot at owning one.
I think that would have been a great gesture by Mr. Schulz. Auction 11 of them for as much as he could get for them. He deserves it. But then "raffle" the last one for some $$ per chance. Heck, that raffle bow would have brought him more money than the rest combined and give us working class folks a real chance at obtaining a piece of archery history.
Oh well, I'm out, but I wish him the best with the auction.
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I think he has earned the right to do as he pleases with the selling of his bows. MANY people have learned from him of bows and hunting both in person and through his books and video. Me included. I have the utmost respect for him and have always admired the man and never met him in person. A Preacher, Hunter,Bowyer and Master Archer.Whats not to like. I can`t afford one but hope he gets twice what he is asking. God Bless you sir and thanks for helping me learn to shoot a longbow.RC
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To Go Again
by John Shulz
I think I'd like to go again
To life that now has passed
With some old friends
To days that didn't last-
To once more hear the bay of hounds
While canyons deep send back the sound
And like the echo of that song
Fade into stillness- and then be gone-
To smell the salt of horse's sweat
(From ropin' calves) their bodies wet
Then go- tie one on the ground
And hope that I just won the round-
To wander through sweet rows of hay
And feel the sunshine of the day
Know that when it's put away
All dry and safe- let come what may-
Lone in some forest streaked with light
See "Mosshorn" stand - no sign of fright
My arrow sent from full drawn bow
True to the spot - it must needs go-
To go again by campfire bright
With lantern's soft dim glow
Retell those tales into the night
In voices hushed and low-
To go again to some filled hall
Then hear us preachers- one and all
Lift up God's Christ
And sound the Gospel call-
To go again when children- not yet grown
Were in their joy and play
Then all of life was only "home"
But now- they're gone away-
To go again? It cannot be
Except it is in memory
So then- I'll only look ahead
Not live the past- long dead-
No more of earth- my need to be
Of hollow things and vanity
But there together ever be
With Jesus Christ- Eternity-
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Originally posted by Jack Hoyt 75:
Interesting to say the least! I don't think we are dealing with greed here. I think we are dealing the a master bowyer coming to the end of his career and trying to go out with 12 last pieces of art. The last 12 pieces of functional art that he will always to remembered fondly by. :notworthy: but everyone has a ceiling to what they can personally pay for a bow. Then again maybe there is 12 millionaires out there looking for a new bow! The free market will sort it out.
Lets keep comments positive and just see how this all plays out; lots of things can change in a auction and nothing is final till its SOLD!
Just my opinion; I respect yours too!
:pray:
Well said.
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What did you type in on **** for john's bow?
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Originally posted by Steiger3208:
What did you type in on **** for john's bow?
There is a link to the auction at the John Schulz longbow website.
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I wish him the very best in the sale of these bows. They are worth every bit of what someone is willing to pay for the final bows of a great bowyer.
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Well, my 2 bits, these bows arent about the Hill legacy. Mr. Schulz spent most of his life promoting the Hill legacy to all that were interested, during that time he became a master bowyer, took what he learned from Hill and refined it to perfection. He did his duty to the Hill legacy.
These bows are about the Schulz legacy and what HE has done for our sport.
The man spent his life building and selling bows for a working mans wage...now its his turn reap some benefits.
I say, Best of Luck Mr.Schulz and Thank You!
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On a similar note...
When I was a youngun back in the 70's I had a friend that built custom muzzleloaders & knives and such for a living. Meager as it was, he he kept his family fed and clothed. I managed to save up up a couple hundred bucks of lawn mowing money for one of his rifles.
Today he is one of the most highly regarded and collectable builders in the world. He sells his works for amazing amounts of money, why?...because people pay it. And he's not gonna sell it for $1000 to someone and have them walk out the door and sell it for $5000.
Yea I'm bummed because I would love to have another one of his guns, but they are just too far beyond my means. But I'm happy as hell for him to be able to do what he loves and make good money for it, he's paid his dues.
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Westbrook, what is your frieds name who builds muzzleloaders?
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Have you ever built a muzzleloader ? I am in the process of building my first right now. I have built a fair number of bows as well. The difference is night and day, not even close regarding the time and effort it takes. Once out of the box, I can have a bow shooting in a day, finished in a few more, mainly because I am never satisfied that it is ready to be finished.
It can take days just to inlet the barrel and the lock / trigger.
I get what you are saying, and I don't really begrudge John, let him get whatever the market allows. But we all are a bit disappointed, let's use that term.
All the hype, John is coming out with a last bunch, and it turns out very few of us can even afford to bid, much less buy. That's all
CHuckC
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I notice that everyone that is in full support are not bidders. I was hoping that I could have picked up a lefty for under $3000 and if they stayed in that range the 60 pounder. But the 60 pounder came first all by itself and has a bid that is more than I would have opened with. I was really excited about this for a bit, oh well, on to other things. I want to buy some hunting/farm land, which may be easier than buying a bow as it turns out.
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I don't blame John for asking that....
I do think who ever buys them has more dollars than -------
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Any suspicions that the first bidder is the seller??? ;)
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still didn't hit the reserve price. I wonder what that is ?
ChuckC
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I'm with you, pavan.
But, to each his own.
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I stated my opinion before. I wish we knew what the reserve was?? My bet is $4,500 or more :archer2:
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Originally posted by womblesd:
Westbrook, what is your frieds name who builds muzzleloaders?
Judson Brennan...I grew up a few blocks from him in Lansing MI...he now lives in Ak.
An amazingly talented man and humble as can be.
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"With that being said who ever put these on E-ay for John does not know how to use E-ay to the fullest and there are several mistake (or should I say un-used best practices) that are keeping this auction for getting the full attention and number of watchers and bidders it deserves."
They are offering free shipping!!!!
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ChuckC....yes.
They are a challenge for guys like us. A guy that does it for a living can do in a day what takes us a week.
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Oops
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Many of the Bear Signature takedowns to come up for re-sale on the auction site have gone for way more than the starting price of this auction!
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I like Bear takedowns, but there are so many of them out there, I don't see how they could ever be collect or items, but there are a few that want every model that has ever been issued. There are Deadheads that go for crazy amounts as well, good thing I found that bunch in a small archery shop called 'old stock', I bought them all for cheap and I wish I would have bought the 'old stock' Zwickys as well.
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Looks like the bid was cancelled.
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Originally posted by tg2nd:
Looks like the bid was cancelled.
I saw that, too.
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well the free market decided it wasn't going to pay the minimum starting bid of $3,500. We'll see what this relists for I'm sure.
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I can hardly believe that with so many in support of the esteemed value of these bows that no one wanted this one. If the starting bid would have been lower and the reserve set at $2500, I might have owned one. Oh well, I am happy with the choice I have made for my next bow anyway, and I will be hunting with it, when the situation calls for a really pretty right hand bow to take a stroll in the woods. I do believe in supporting the TG sponsors when ever possible.
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It will be interesting to watch how the rest of the auctions play out.
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He may have done better to build one model bow and then took orders. At least a person could get the weight they wanted. On average most bowyers say 50-53# @28" is what most people want. I guess investors might not care about weight.Good luck John with the rest of them.
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If I were going to buy the bow for collecting purposes, and not shoot it I would probably not care , or perhaps even prefer a heavier weight to better represent the era of the bow.
I hope that john decides to realist the bows at a lower reserve. If he started at $1500, it's likely they would bid up from there possibly even moving into the range he was after. Bidding competition inspires people to bid up because of the belief that the price is supported by the market. Too high a starting price and competition never gets initiated for fear of there not being enough market support to justify the purchase/investment. IMO.
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Great bow by a legend in the industry but the buyers will set the price.
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#3 is up now. Starting threshold was lower, but reserve not met. It's the 50#@28" bow, so probably closest to 'todays' popular weight. I'm maxed out on it already on it.
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Just curious why the sons of John did not just continiue John's legacy of bow building and sell these bows as bowyers
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Originally posted by sidebuster:
Just curious why the sons of John did not just continiue John's legacy of bow building and sell these bows as bowyers
Maybe his sons wanted to do their own thing. Not every son wants to be in the same profession as their father.
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John's one son did restart American Longbow Co. a few years ago, but something happened and it went away again.
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Dang, I sense a lot of internal hostility built up in Pavan. Man, I'd love to have a Lamborghini but it isn't gonna happen, but I don't go on car message boards and post over and over and over about them being over priced.
BTW, Mr. Lyon, I'm kinda behind on this. Have any of them sold yet? Is there some sort of listing schedule somewhere?
Thanks.
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I don't know the listing schedule. Since I have an **** account I followed the first two when listed. I bid on the second one, but quickly got out of my price range. My hunch is their saving #1 as it's probably going to be the most desirable because of the number. #2 was listed but reserve was never met and the auction ended.
#3 is currently at $2,075 and reserve has not been met. Based on the way the first two were listed, my hunch is they'll go in order of the bows serial number and come back to #1 as the final. But that's only a wild guess. It will be interesting to see if they lower the reserve (whatever that is) if this bow does not hit it.
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Thanks Ray.
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Internal hostility? Hardly, Eluck is a bidding game, and business is business. I for one am willing to say that I have the money available. I was going to try for that 60 pounder, but we are not looking for a wall hanger, it would get used like any other bow. What good is that Lamborghini if there is no gas in the tank. I have noticed that a number of non-bidders are quick to decide how much us bidders should spend. The goal is to get a good profit on the bows for John and that is certainly understandable. In any business deal, the seller wants to make as much profit as possible and the buyer wants to get most value from his investment. These are bows of hopefully excellent quality, not gifts or rare and priceless religious artifacts. However, since I wanted originally to buy two of them, I have as much right to speak my mind as anyone else has to say how much that I should spend. It seems perfectly politically correct to say 'too much for my bank account so I am not bidding', but politically incorrect to say that I did not like the bar being set that high right from the start. According to Bob Burton and his friends, they stated outright that the bows would not go for that, no one jumped on their statements. I probably wanted one more than most, thus the disappointment. I am upfront stating that I am looking for, a shooter, if someone wants to make a bow more than that, it is their choice. However, in any case, if the next one that I want, and business is business, comes in my price range, I may be bidding hard on it. Personally, it would be good if the reserve gets just low enough, but not too low, that my limit will buy the one I want.
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That first bow turned into one of the coming Limited Edition bows from Howard Hill Archery, the second one may become a second Limited Edition as well. Which in a way is a good thing, on the one hand I would supporting Egrab and on the other by buying from Hill Archery I would be indirectly supporting Trad Gang. I am feeling better about that all the time. My bidding limit has just dropped a little, again.
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"That first bow turned into one of the coming Limited Edition bows from Howard Hill Archery"
Can you elaborate please?
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Hermon, you bet I will.