Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Bullfrog 1 on October 08, 2014, 09:55:00 AM
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Anyone use or try this. I remember an old article from Gene Wensel about doing it to the last third of the edge? BILL
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I myself am against serrated blades on broadheads.
Gene also compared cutting a nice steak with one versus a straight blade, to which I responded " when I go hunting a well done deer, I may very well go with a serrated edge, but for raw or very rare deer, a straight blade is the key". I think they are designed for different purposes.
Just my thoughts
ChuckC
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I switch back and forth. Usually my serrate blades are done with the edge of a file like Howard Hill did.
I have however used the Magnus Buzzcut with very good results.
Sharp is sharp and I don't think it matters much. I will say that regardless of what happens as it goes through a deer there isn't anything sliding past the serrated blade.
I always hone the edge to a smooth polished razor edge before serrating. Then very light polishing after serrating so as not to remove the serrations.
I've never seen fat/hair loading up the serrations as some say.
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Check your state game laws--serrated aren't legal everywhere--at least the last time I looked (been a while).
Put it in the right spot, the deer will die with either one.
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I love the Magnus Buzzcut, though I doubt it makes much difference as long as its sharp. I used to avoid the buzzcuts because I thought it would be hard to resharpen, but I've found that you can get them shaving sharp, serrations and all, pretty easily.
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I've never used a serrated BH, but have cut a few steaks with both smooth and serrated steak knives.
A really sharp blade will cut through even the tougher steaks I can afford just as easily as a serrated blade. The only advantage I see to the serrated blade is that the high spots are the only thing that touch that hard, porcelain plate. The scallops don't touch the plate so stay sharp longer. I guess it would be the same for a BH glancing off a bone - the recessed scallops would still be sharp. Still, for me it's a "shoot it - then sharpen it" thing with a BH. The edge never gets used twice without sharpening in between uses.
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when Mike Sohm said out of all his broadheads he prefered the buzzcuts over all the others he sold because of the damage they did I had to try them!
I still havent hit anything with them deer just don't show when I have those arrows but I'm very curious when I get a shot what the buzz's will do,,, if worse comes to worse I still have the plain blades.
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For awhile back in the 60's I used 3 blade bodkin heads, MA-3 and Hills Hornet. The steel in those heads was not the best to get a shaving sharp edge so I filed serrations on the back 3rd of the heads with the edge of a file.
I've used other serrated heads made currently and I like them a lot. Like Charlie said, "there isn't anything sliding past the serrated blade".
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I use light serrations made by the edge of a file as HIll did and Charlie described..
Schulz Said, "I want to kill 'em, not shave 'em"! LOL!
(http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr180/two4hooking/Trad%20Know%20How/20140731_125913_zps99b00ccb.jpg) (http://s481.photobucket.com/user/two4hooking/media/Trad%20Know%20How/20140731_125913_zps99b00ccb.jpg.html)
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In the late 90's there was a head (red in color and shaped like a Journeyman) called the Raptor. I believe you were using those Ron, along with Brian Koche when he was coming to camp. I believe Steel Force still has a large two blade head that is serrated.
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I have used serrated heads for over 40 years and killed a lot of animals with them. Killed a lot with un -serrate ed heads too. Don't know for sure if either has caused me to lose and animal or to kill an animal. Both kill if they are sharp and well placed.
I believe sincerely that blood vessles and arteries that could possibly get past a smooth head will be cut by a serrated head but cannot prove it other than I have tested both against rubber bands and with equal pressure applied the serrated always cut them easier than the smooth.
God bless, Steve
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I'm pretty fussy about the edge on my straight edge broadheads. I file them, then put them on a hone steel and sometimes even strop them on an old razor strap that I have.
I still wouldn't hesitate to use a serrated broadhead. I have serrated steak knives in my kitchen drawer that have been used hundreds of times over the years without EVER being sharpened and they still cut meat as slick as you please. I also have some old straight edged paring knives in that drawer that are as dull as a butter knife. I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer but when I wanna cut a piece of meat I know which knife to reach for... :rolleyes:
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Few honed blades will cut any faster than serrated Shark's teeth or fluted obsidian heads and that is why I prefer a lightly serrated edge. They seem to stay sharp longer.
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hud just beat me to it. The first broadheads ever used were serrated and no one can question their effectiveness.
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I have used both. I believe a fine blade will give you better penetration due to less resistance and serrated blade will create a wound channel less likely to clot due to its saw like cut into flesh. I think you could use either-or with good results. Take a look at the pics on the Magnus Stinger posts. Plenty of good blood from fine and serrated Stingers.
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(http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh205/bushbow/DSCF2515_zpsa814baeb.jpg) (http://s257.photobucket.com/user/bushbow/media/DSCF2515_zpsa814baeb.jpg.html)
Here is a old Journeyman with the Wensel trick I did to them years ago after reading his article. I used a Metal checkering file like he suggested and it worked great. Rarely use this type of head anymore so my 3 bladers just get honed and hunted but I believe this is a really effective way to get a two blade head deadly.
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Last year I helped recover 2 deer with similar shot placement. Both of these deer were shot back and had broadhead holes in the liver. First deer went down in about 150 yards and was stiff when we found him 2 hours after the shot. The other was on his feet 4-5 hours after the shot and required another shot to finally end it. Upon me gutting and examining the broadhead damage in each deer I was suprised. The first deer had been shot with a file sharpened bear head and his liver was tore up pretty good so he bled out rather quickly. The second deer was shot with a razor sharp SS broadhead and he had a giant clot in the hole of his liver. My conclusion to this is that the file sharpened head had serrations left behind from the file which prevented the wound from clotting before he bled out....Henry
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Serrations destroy surrounding tissue. So effectively, in fact one of the first things that the Geneva convention outlawed in war was serrated bayonets.
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I myself have found that I prefer a rough shaving sharp edge, if that makes any since at all. I get all my broadheads as sharp as I am going to get them with either a file or course grit stone, then make a very few passes (maybe 3 on each side) with a smooth stone just to remove any small piece of burr left. It works for me and I think it gives me the best of both worlds. I get a very sharp shaving edge that is not really serrated but "grabs" at tissues and hairs. It leaves good blood trails to! :bigsmyl:
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Bobbys pic got my thinking,,,,, Bobby that Jounrneyman is it only serrated on one side??
I'm wondering if serrating only one side of the edge has an advantage over the other side like a single bevel broadhead.
I wonder if the arrow spinning into the serrations like a Left side serration with the correct LW fletching is better than say the the opposite side like say a right side single serration with the right wing fletching,, wonder if one tears better than the other..
had to get technical with this, ha ha..
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I'm with ChuckC. A smooth blade cuts raw meat much better than serrated blade.
Ever see a butcher use a serrated knife?
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NO - it is on both sides. I used a 1/2 wide or so metal checkering file and just get the one side started carefully then turn over and repeat in the same grooves. Rather small nasty sharp serrations created. Small enough that you just sharpen as usual ignoring them and the blade can be honed and stropped to your fine polished edge with a dozen or so nasty grabbers at the trailing edge of both blades that will not sneak past any artery even if you pass through bone on the way and dull the honed edge.
Not that a smooth edge doesn't cut well or that there is really any debate beyond preference as to your choice but comparing a single pass through the boiler room to a butcher is not apples to even limes. A butcher is making pretty cuts and has the option of running the knife past multiple times - a broadhead is a one shot deal with the goal of maximum damage. Having the small serrations offers some potential lethality of grab vs. slide past on even the arteries that are barely being touched. With the rubber band trick it really becomes quite apparent.
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Unless a person has killed more than a few critters with both serrated and smooth edged heads they can only speculate on the difference in effectiveness of the two edges.
As I said earlier I started using serrated heads 50 years ago before they were available commercially. I filed my own serrations on my heads and they were very effective.
If the shot is right through the old livin room as John Grumley used to say, the type of edge on a broadhead doesn't matter as much as a marginal hit where every severed artery is important. In a case like that my vote goes to the serrated head.
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Originally posted by Ron LaClair:
Unless a person has killed more than a few critters with both serrated and smooth edged heads they can only speculate on the difference in effectiveness of the two edges.
As I said earlier I started using serrated heads 50 years ago before they were available commercially. I filed my own serrations on my heads and they were very effective.
If the shot is right through the old livin room as John Grumley used to say, the type of edge on a broadhead doesn't matter as much as a marginal hit where every severed artery is important. In a case like that my vote goes to the serrated head.
Which would you give the edge to, a wide straight edge like a Treesharks or a narrower head with serrations like a Magnus Buzzcut?
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Which would you give the edge to, a wide straight edge like a Treesharks or a narrower head with serrations like a Magnus Buzzcut?
I've always liked a big two blade head. In the 50's I used the Goshawk broadhead then when the Pearson Dead Head came out I went to that. I used the Simmons head for awhile and for the last several years I've used the Ace Super Express. I've used other heads in between but always went back to the big two blades...not because they were better necessarily, I just liked the looks of the big two blade and the hole they punched.
If someone came out with a big two blade with a serrated edge, I'd love it.
As has been stated before ," there isn't anything sliding past the serrated blade."
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I have always thought the best edge for a broadhead was one that was file sharpened but that could still shave hair. BILL
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Ditto on what Ron has said and with same time experience. I started with Eskimos though and stuck with them for years. I chainsaw filed four serrations on the extreme back of the blade and stropped to razor sharp the entire blade. I have never questioned the effectiveness of that setup and agree that when its in the boiler room with smooth or serrated the animal is usually down quick. Funny thing though is that sometimes you hit back too far, foreward too far, down too low or up too high. As much as we like if we hunt enough we will get some marginal shots for various reasons.
Touching an artery with a serrated head could possibly make the difference between a wounded animal and a dead one. JMHO.
All this said this year I am hunting with the new Grizzly three blade and they are not serrated. LO
God bless, Steve
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I like filed "sticky sharp" heads much like James Kerr referred to. Not really serrated although I imagine it would look so under magnification.
I certainly wouldn't hesitate to use a Buzzcut or some other serrated head though. In fact I hunted with Buzzcuts a little in the past when we still carried them but never happened to kill anything with one.
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The Magnus 150gr Buzzcut looks pretty good to me.
(http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server2800/8cedd/products/41/images/129/Stinger_150_2_buzzcut__44636.1410676843.1280.1280.jpg?c=2)
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The Buzzcut looks like my Eskimos that I serrate except for the venting. I even sharpen the back edge like that and tanto the point.
God bless, Steve
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I've never tried a serrated edge? Hey Bill, buy me a pack and I'll get back to you! :laughing:
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I did this today with a Needle file I bought at the hardware store
(http://***********.bowsite.com/tf/pics/00small75389720.JPG)
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Looks good Ron!
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I did it to a Simmons too (http://***********.bowsite.com/tf/pics/00small70074249.JPG)
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I like the looks of that Simmons.
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Originally posted by jkm97:
I like the looks of that Simmons.
X 2!
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A serrated edge cuts tissue and arterys better, that's why steak knives are serrated. Granted a sharp straight edge cuts good but I think there's an advantage with serrations when you get a marginal hit you need all of the cutting advantage you can get and "no artery is going to slid past a serrated edge."
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Hello Ron
Very interesting point of vue but how you sharpen
that serrated part ?
thank you
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I use a tapered diamond rod to sharpen serrations. I would think a round file such as a chainsaw file in the proper size would work well too.
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If you make small serrations you can sharpen the head as usual - like it were just a straight edge. The part that matters id the tips of the serrations - they do all the dirty work. No need to worry about the valleys. Use your file, lansky type system or whatever and just sharpen right through them like you always did. Good to go.
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Sorry - Dbl post for some reason
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Looks pretty wicked buddy.
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Why not a rough edge, on a straight blade???
I use a file, Or a med grit stone, on my Zwickeys & Razorheads all the time. They are SHARP!!! I have accidently cut myself many times over the years,to attest to that,LMAO I have found the a perfectly smooth,"razor edge" quickly becomes dull...
I sharpen my heads 1 stroke to a side,alternating back & forth, to keep the edge balanced. There is always a very tiny "burr" on the edge, but it is VERY SHARP!!!!!
Maybe is this day & age we'd call it...
"Micro-Serrations" ???