For those who have researched these dogs for tracking. It is so hard to find a puppy has been my experience. They have long waiting list and charge up to 1800.00 for a puppy that has not been started. Breeders want outrageous prices and a neuter/ spay agreement. It is really been discouraging. Has anyone had any luck using non hunting bloodlines. If that is the case, someone needs to start breeding for the bowhunting community. Anyone know of a decent breeder.
Get a Lab.
I would think any dog that has been trained would make a fine blood trailing dog. I know 2 yellow labs that find deer every year and a Beagle mutt that has found 30+ every year for the last 8! Some breeds I'm sure are better than others but all dogs have what it takes if given the chance. Also, the more real trails they are on the better they'll be!
Tim, sent you a PM.
Ron
Yea - well try and find a Bavarian Mountain Hound and the Teckles will seem easy :)
But seriously - I think if you get the book by John Jeanneney and work with any puppy that has a nose(hound mix pound puppy) you will have a companion that can do 90% of what most hunters need because you have the dog!! It is when 5 people have looked for a day or two with grid searches after a rain storm that a true specialist is needed. If you have a dog you are on the track within hours at the most and any good dog with a nose and some training from puppyhood should save you a lot of grief and heartache.
That was my plan after a 3yr search for a BMH and giving up - it was then that I hit the lotto and Molly fell in my lap(thank you Jerry Russell)
My GSP is great at blood trails. He's 90% german lines, so he's bred for it. I didn't start training him on blood until he was 5 either. Plus I have a great bird dog!
Ron, I checked that kennel out.
I have considered other dogs, but not being experienced, I thought it might be easier with certain bloodlines.
Just look at that face. Mine came from the Jeneany bloodline. But not from him. $700 10 years ago. The guy I got here from was in Erie PA. Not sure if he still breeds dogs. I can't remember his name. (http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p714/tas0323/IMG_0170_zpse05e418f.jpg)
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I did breed mine and offered two of the pups for $400 each to trad gang members just so I could see them tracking for traditional bowhunters. The rest of the litter when at the going price to hard core bowhunters. Unfortunately both of those dogs have passed. Tilly & her daughter Cash are still doing fine. Both are out of the Jeanneney line...tippit
Tilly & Cash asleep...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/tippit/Deer%20Season%202010/TillyCash003.jpg)
Cash @ 6 months first track...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/tippit/Deer%20Season%202010/Deer2010001.jpg)
When you see a WHD in action. You gotta have one. stubborn stubborn attitude. You can't break em off a trail.
Getting the most out of the dog does take some input from the owner.
Tedd
Any hound breed will track. Bloodhounds have the best nose of all. Once on a trail they won't stop till they find the source of the scent. Put a tracking collar on them they move fast and won't come back readily. My buddy has one that runs Cougars with his black and tans. Mine is just a yard dog. I bird hunt with my GSP's they have good noses and are much easier to control. I'm sure they could follow a blood scent.
Tippit,
Did they become momma's dogs? my wife wasn't too into it when I went to get our WHD. But that didn't last long.
We are going to Fl to do some kayak fishing and I have it set up to stop by a breeder on the way. The wife does not know, so it will be a surprise. I hope I can get her use to the idea. We will be traveling with her cairn terrier and my short legged jack Russell.
I think Jack Russels are used too, in Texas and Africa. You should try with what you got and see if they can do it. I was gonna train my wife's min pin but I really don't think he was up to the terrain I hunt (marshes). Besides, if he ever got lost or beat up by a chipmunk, I woulda been in the doghouse.
ChuckC
I partner up with my most excellent and worthy Bassett hound when I need the services of a tracker. Just a yard dog most of the time, but he's a powerful nose.
I have a 4yo WDH male (fixed) and am in the same boat looking for a new pup half the breeders will not even return emails or calls. Love the breed hate the puppy search.
Ever think of a vizsla? Dang fine hunting dog and a fine family dog as well. My first experience handling one has left an impression I won't soon forget. A untrained dog she put regular dogs to shame in both realms!
QuoteOriginally posted by Bobby Urban:
Yea - well try and find a Bavarian Mountain Hound and the Teckles will seem easy :)
But seriously - I think if you get the book by John Jeanneney and work with any puppy that has a nose(hound mix pound puppy) you will have a companion that can do 90% of what most hunters need because you have the dog!! It is when 5 people have looked for a day or two with grid searches after a rain storm that a true specialist is needed. If you have a dog you are on the track within hours at the most and any good dog with a nose and some training from puppyhood should save you a lot of grief and heartache.
That was my plan after a 3yr search for a BMH and giving up - it was then that I hit the lotto and Molly fell in my lap(thank you Jerry Russell)
Bob hit it right with this response. Most hunters that just want a dog for their own use would do fine with most hounds and many terrier breeds if they can be on the trail in 2-6 hours. Complex trails with no blood that have aged are were these dogs bred for this challenge come into play. A cold nosed dog that is trained will do things most hunters think impossible including tracking after heavy rains, ignoring non-target animals and "hot" deer and much more.
If you are wanting a dog bred for tracking, DONT GIVE UP. Get on these list and the time will pass before you know it. These breeders want to know that you are serious about something that is very important to them. It took me two years to get my Bavarian Mountain Hound but I know now it was worth the wait x100. A 20 hour old blood trail is child's play to him.
In defense of the breeders of blood dogs from working lines, I will say that what they are looking for is someone that has a history in blood tracking that will work their dogs on MANY lines per year. They are flooded with request for their dogs each year by folks that really only want the dogs for personal use (4-8 tracks per year). These request hit a fever pitch just before deer season. These folk are passionate about game recovery and having their dogs exposed to a ton of lines per year (60-100 tracks). From their perspective it is a bit like a man that builds a custom race car and is hesitant to sell it to a man who only want to park it in a garage.
Regardless of what type of dog you are looking for or if you want a hot nose or cold nose pup, you need the book "Tracking Dog for Finding Wounded Deer. It is an A-Z plan from puppy search to advanced training. I have 30 years experience with blood dogs and the book was still a good read for me.
Just for the record on those focused on the WHD (which are fantastic dogs BTW... Don't overlook smooth haired versions of the breed. There is absolutely no difference in tracking ability between the smooths and the wire haired. Also remember that most every single quality breeder (all breeds) will only have pups in late spring so get on the list now.
Good luck to those that are looking. If I can ever help anyone with training or other matters, just shoot me a PM or email. I love this stuff.
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Jerry, I have had the book for years. Tonya is tired of moving it around the house. I like the wirehair dogs because they do not seem to shed hair as much. We have the two small dogs in the house with my heeler. The heeler is great for the livestock. I do not have to leave the porch, just send the dog. I would like to try to train a dog or two to see if I can be successful. There are plenty of does to shoot when not tracking liver drags.
I have also had the book for over 5 years and still read it form time to time but haven't had any luck getting a dog. Many reasons but someday. It also helps people understand different hit scenario's and the reasons we take certain high percentage shots. A wealth of info in the book for sure.
I've had 2 WHD for 8 years now, they love to work and are just a blast to work with. I got mine from Andy Bensing in Reading, Pa. BTW, they are just incredible little dogs and are so much fun to live with.
There is a group called United Blood Trackers that many of the avid trackers participate in and is a wealth of information and rich in contacts. https://www.unitedbloodtrackers.org/
If you are thinking of getting a dog and training it, this group would be invaluable as would their annual gathering called TrackFest.
John and Jolanta Jeanneney have written several excellent books on the topic of blood tracking and are quite the team and are truly pioneers in the area. http://www.born-to-track.com/
after 2 yrs of being a day late or a $$$ short.. I found a breeder who was selling pups.. and Mom and Pap WHD...
We talked for 2 hrs since he was sold out... He was older and had turned to Lacy Game dogs... aka Blue Lacy dogs...
4 months later// I found a litter near me and reasonable $$$ $400 is much less than a teckel bred dog... But the big thing is we have snakes down in my way... and hogs.. Neither is good for a dog... but will kill a whd or teckel!!!
ablack mouth cur, catahoula... or any cur dog have the nose... but takes a lil more work!!!
Curs are Hard to slow down... BUT MAN WHAT A NOSE!!!
My Tilly is a smooth coat...supposed to be a wirehaired oops! The Germans call them Scmires...not necessarily a complimentary name :) She came out of an earlier John and Jolanta Jeanneney line that they wanted to breed back to even though she was a smooth. The great thing about her is No Burrs while Cash a wire needs to be picked out...tippit
PS Ted: Tilly came from Erie too.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/tippit/Tilly/Tilly08006.jpg)
Another breed that tracks well is the Boykin spaniel. Joe(Whip)Lasch's dog as done quite a few successful tracks on deer. This passed spring I was given one that was a started bird dog. I'll probably use Hawkins to track as he has a great nose.
Hawkins working a field...
(http://images2.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp83232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv7%3C64%3Dot%3E2395%3D%3C78%3D763%3DXROQDF%3E2%3B3%3C6%3A744%3C23%3Bot1lsi)
What are the opinions of Labs and German Shepard's for this work?
QuoteOriginally posted by Roger Norris:
What are the opinions of Labs and German Shepard's for this work?
Either breed will track well, Roger. The only down side to large breeds is in states where you have to have them on a leash. Here in Ohio they must be on a leash while tracking. Moe weighs about 23 or 24 pounds and pulls like a freight train on a track. I could not imagine being tied to a large bread on a track.
Here is Mojo after a nice snowy track job.
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e305/zipperbows/a0da176f-6297-483e-8a60-2ad8b1a87925.jpg) (http://s42.photobucket.com/user/zipperbows/media/a0da176f-6297-483e-8a60-2ad8b1a87925.jpg.html)
I am gonna guess that any dog that has a nose, by that I mean, not a snub nosed dog, will work in terms of being able to follow the scent. Some apparently train easier and some are bred to follow scents, while others can be steered that way.
I think the wife's poodle would work out too, way better than we could ever do, if you put in some training time.
Now, tell me officer, am I really hunting deer with a dog, or just taking FiFi for a walk ?
CHuckC
Moe in camp just waiting patiently to do his job.
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e305/zipperbows/TRACY-PC/Pictures/2014-05-30%20001/IMG_0614.jpg) (http://s42.photobucket.com/user/zipperbows/media/TRACY-PC/Pictures/2014-05-30%20001/IMG_0614.jpg.html)
Here is Tanner guarding one of "HIS" deer.
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e305/zipperbows/guarddog.jpg) (http://s42.photobucket.com/user/zipperbows/media/guarddog.jpg.html)
I bought a sheperd from a breeder that utilizes them for cadaver and search and rescue dogs. She has had limited tracks but is doing a great job! Found my first deer of the year last night with no problems!
I have a miniature long haired dachund, very compact but has found 4 deer in the last two years. It came very naturally to her and with little training. Great to have a family pet that can also blood trail.
As others have said, if you are just looking for a dog that can handle your own and your buddies tracks there are lots of breeds that can hold their own. The specialized breeds are that for a reason - they are probably the best of the best. But lots of dogs have plenty of nose to be able to handle 90% of the tracks you might encounter.
Here is my Boykin Spaniel Arlo at just over 7 months old. He definitely has the nose and the drive for this stuff. I call him "Gruesome" when he gets his nose full of the scent of blood. My biggest challenge has been learning to read him and understand what he is doing, and trying to keep up with him as he pulls through thickets and blowdowns. If I let go of the lead he will leave me in the dust!
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y80/Jlasch/2012%20Deer/2012DeerHunts086.jpg) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/Jlasch/media/2012%20Deer/2012DeerHunts086.jpg.html)
That is a great picture whip!
Don't come between a WHD and her
deer! http://s1347.photobucket.com/user/tas0323/media/IMG_4011_zps59f61c5d.mp4.html
On guard duty. She won't leave the deer so I have to put her food and water there. She won't eat or drink anyhow, that would take away a precious second of her deer worshiping. (http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p714/tas0323/Image_zps73f9bc18.jpg)
I have had the pleasure of watching Arlo do his work. That boy knows his job! What's more he is a pleasure to be around. Just a sweet heart of a dog.
Bill
I am still working with my little buddy. He is following blood trails that I lay out in the yard. I hope to get him on some real trails this year.
At 7 lbs I do not have a problem with him dragging me through the woods! :D
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee98/Benjy45/DSC08564_zpsc9f906b6.jpg) (http://s235.photobucket.com/user/Benjy45/media/DSC08564_zpsc9f906b6.jpg.html)
I was waiting for you to get on here Benjy with your guard dog errr I mean tracker dog ;)
Does anyone have a jack russel tracker? What is their temperament. I'd like a dog like my whd that can jump in the truck without me picking it up!
Tedd, I have a JRT. Trust me, they can jump in your truck, if not OVER it!
Best dog I've ever had and there's been many different breeds under my roof.
Should have mentioned that I never trained her to blood track, but, she's "got it bad" for squirrels. No telling how many I've shot over her. She started treeing real naturally.
Also, not a better mole killer that I know of.
My guess is with a little training they could follow up a deer for a guy.
Unfortunately my dapple dachshund passed away the year they made it legal to use tracking dogs in Utah so I was never able us use him. He had the best nose I've ever seen in a dog. He was abscessed with deer and elk and just about anything dead. He could fine anything even the lead from fired bullets. Funniest thing I ever seen was him retrieving ducks, kinda like a happy bobble headed dog swaying from side to side with his short legs. Too bad he never got his chance. (http://i580.photobucket.com/albums/ss248/barebow13/FH000016.jpg) (http://s580.photobucket.com/user/barebow13/media/FH000016.jpg.html)
I thought I had a challenge for Molly tonight. I shot a small doe in an overgrown creek bottom area where multiple little creeks and ditches come in. It's thickly brushed with a few walnut trees mixed in. The deer was standing in one of the few very small openings. she was broadside at 10 yards. I saw the arrow enter but could not see where it should have passed through and stuck in the dirt. I thought the arrow should easily pass through. This was low light and during a thick drizzle and heavy fog on ground that has been soaked for days.
At the shot the deer lunged forward and was instantly gone and made no sound of crashing off at all. Just silence. (bad ears).
I went for the dog and came back and put her on. Molly went harder than I ever saw her pull. She was on the deer in about 3 minutes or less! The dampness and terrain must have kept the smell where she needed it. Nice recovery. I would have found the deer but it would have taken about 20 minutes and I would have been soaked and full of briars.
The arrow was in the dirt right where it should have been I just couldn't see it from the tree stand. The fletching was heavily covered in blood. Blood trail was washing away quickly in the wet.
This time it worked out!