Does anyone else experience or believe that there is a Karma connection to hunting?
You have better success in taking an animal because of your respect for the animal and your ethical approach to the kill?
You have better success in taking an animal because you carry with you an item that was given to you?
You have better success because you carry part of an animal from a Previous harvest?
Just curious what other Hunters think about Karma.
Nope.
Nope.
X3
If one believes in karma in there life than why would it not be a part of your hunting as well . As for me , my hunting has a deeper meaning than just a sport . I can only hope I bring good karma to my hunting .
May life's simplest things bring you the greatest pleasures !!
Nope
Nope
I have taken things with me on hunting outings and trips, maybe to bring me luck or whatever. Kept them in a "medicine" bag I made....so far... It has not worked....... :dunno: Now I just carry my Dad's knife.....just because!
Nope. I believe there are two factors in hunting, skill and dumb luck.
nope
QuoteOriginally posted by Gooserbat:
Nope. I believe there are two factors in hunting, skill and dumb luck.
Yep
Ron - It is going to work for you this year! I have a strong feeling that this is the year that you take a Deer with bow.
I believe 100 percent as the native americans did. When one has extreme respect for a particular species of animal, they will be gifted in the pursuit of that creature. For me it is bears. They are by far my favorite animal and I've done extensive research on them and both hunted and watched them A LOT. I have friends who have it with deer and others with turkeys.
This all may boil down to the fact that we work harder to get close to those critters but I swear, I can't seem to step into the woods without running across bears and I would give up the pursuit of all other species over them.
I don't even want to kill them anymore but I have to as I have to hunt them. That may not make sense but it's how I feel about them.
Etter - X2
I think I know what you're trying to get at, just not sure karma is an ideal term. Karma being a term from eastern religion carries too much attachment to debt for past actions/ right vs. wrong, i.e. "sin" etc. When I think of the concept you're trying to illustrate I think more of terms like the Lakota term 'wakan' which describes something that is 'holy/divine/mysterious' etc...the Lakota viewed many or most of the things around them as having some level of 'wakan' or 'medicine' attached to them. Objects or actions could involve good or bad medicine/ positive or negative spiritual power or anima. The Hoodoo word of African origin for it is mojo. I like that one. It is tied to spiritual power or luck. Actually, on that note, in Heathenry this concept is described by the term 'orlog', which can be described as 'moral momentum'...again, not 'moral' as in right or wrong valuation but rather 'moral momentum' involves "fundamental actions which determine our experience of the world around us". Actually, I think this is very relevant to the hunter (or warrior for that matter)...one's 'orlog' basically involves all the things we have done and our ancestors have done to set our path on the wheel of time...fate. Your orlog ultimately determines your luck/success. In a way this is similar to 'karma' but it differs greatly in that there is no valuation of 'right' or 'wrong' attached to it. It could be said that as hunters all of the things like scouting, equipment preparation, shooting practice, choice of prey, understanding of environmental conditions, ethics, what our father did or didn't teach us, etc all determine our 'orlog' in the field and our ultimate success in taking the animal. Or something like that. LOL.
A strong connection with nature and animals has to up a hunters success percentage regardless of how you interpret it or if it is connected to a specific religion.
That said if Karma worked there would be a lot less millionaires, sports stars, and successful hunters these days.
nineworlds9 - I think that you nailed it1
Not me
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob W.:
A strong connection with nature and animals has to up a hunters success percentage regardless of how you interpret it or if it is connected to a specific religion.
That said if Karma worked there would be a lot less millionaires, sports stars, and successful hunters these days.
I don't follow the logic on if Karma worked their would be less millionaires, sports stars, or successful hunter. I can show you quite a few from this category that equate their success with Karma.
Nineworlds9, excellent points & you hit the 10 ring on this subject.
nope.
I (think) I understand what you are asking John... A few years back I started a thread called "How Would You Define A Successful Hunt?"... About 95% stated that game should be on the ground... The other 5% said just being able to hunt is success in itself...
Someone told me once, "With the way you hunt, I don't think you want to kill a deer. Maybe you want to be one instead!"... I have not taken a deer since I started with trad gear... Wouldn't have it any other way!
Just as happy getting close without a shot... But that's me... :dunno:
* Well Said nineworlds9 *
... mike ...
QuoteOriginally posted by Adirondackman:
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob W.:
A strong connection with nature and animals has to up a hunters success percentage regardless of how you interpret it or if it is connected to a specific religion.
That said if Karma worked there would be a lot less millionaires, sports stars, and successful hunters these days.
I don't follow the logic on if Karma worked their would be less millionaires, sports stars, or successful hunter. I can show you quite a few from this category that equate their success with Karma. [/b]
The idea of Karma is linked to good and bad actions, thoughts, etc. Therefore if good helps bad would also hurt. My point is if that were true there are a lot people that should incur the bad part but do not.
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob W.:
QuoteOriginally posted by Adirondackman:
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob W.:
A strong connection with nature and animals has to up a hunters success percentage regardless of how you interpret it or if it is connected to a specific religion.
That said if Karma worked there would be a lot less millionaires, sports stars, and successful hunters these days.
I don't follow the logic on if Karma worked their would be less millionaires, sports stars, or successful hunter. I can show you quite a few from this category that equate their success with Karma. [/b]
The idea of Karma is linked to good and bad actions, thoughts, etc. Therefore if good helps bad would also hurt. My point is if that were true there are a lot people that should incur the bad part but do not. [/b]
I follow you but what about all the good people with good karma they would be equally successful.
There's no such thing as an abstract "force" that empowers some and afflicts others. Whatever you call it -- mojo, luck, karma, etc. -- and whether one believes it guides animals, arrows or lightsabers, it's all bosh. Superstition.
But there is a Creator who made all things, who at times intervenes in His creation and blesses or afflicts individuals as He will. So if one properly respects God's creation and ways, they may find things going well. To casually dismiss that as an impersonal force, karma, or dumb luck is, I believe, disrespectful.
But the rain also falls on the just and the unjust, so sometimes things just happen with no rhyme or reason to it.
Nature, the animal kingdom, bowhunting, and hunting in general... they are all great blessings & privileges that we have been given by God, and I am thankful for the opportunity... But I direct my gratitude to the Creator, not the creation, mojo, karma, etc.
˜o.
We each believe what we believe. Karma can be as simple as the one most deserving, the one most prepared, the one who placed themselves in the best position for that moment. They all sort of sound the same, and are. Call it what you want and attribute it to what you want.
May each of us be looked upon as deserving by whatever forces or entities you believe in.
ChuckC
QuoteOriginally posted by Archie:
There's no such thing as an abstract "force" that empowers some and afflicts others. Whatever you call it -- mojo, luck, karma, etc. -- and whether one believes it guides animals, arrows or lightsabers, it's all bosh. Superstutious nonsense.
But there is a Creator who made all things, who at times intervenes in His creation and blesses or afflicts individuals as He will. So if one properly respects God's creation and ways, they may find things going well. To casually dismiss that as an impersonal force, karma, or dumb luck is, I believe, disrespectful.
But the rain also falls on the just and the unjust, so sometimes things just happen with no rhyme or reason to it.
Nature, the animal kingdom, bowhunting, and hunting in general... they are all great blessings & privileges that we have been given by God, and I am thankful for the opportunity... But I direct my gratitude to the Creator, not the creation, mojo, karma, etc.
I'm not saying where it comes from. I'm just asking if you experience it?
QuoteOriginally posted by mcgroundstalker:
I (think) I understand what you are asking John... A few years back I started a thread called "How Would You Define A Successful Hunt?"... About 95% stated that game should be on the ground... The other 5% said just being able to hunt is success in itself...
Someone told me once, "With the way you hunt, I don't think you want to kill a deer. Maybe you want to be one instead!"... I have not taken a deer since I started with trad gear... Wouldn't have it any other way!
Just as happy getting close without a shot... But that's me... :dunno:
* Well Said nineworlds9 *
... mike ...
Mike - I think that we are on the same page
I don't think so. Ive thrown away tons of lucky hats, rabbits feet and shirts when the luck ran out of them.
Either that or Im a bad dude without realizing and am reaping my just rewards. :dunno:
QuoteOriginally posted by Archie:
There's no such thing as an abstract "force" that empowers some and afflicts others. Whatever you call it -- mojo, luck, karma, etc. -- and whether one believes it guides animals, arrows or lightsabers, it's all bosh. Superstition.
But there is a Creator who made all things, who at times intervenes in His creation and blesses or afflicts individuals as He will. So if one properly respects God's creation and ways, they may find things going well. To casually dismiss that as an impersonal force, karma, or dumb luck is, I believe, disrespectful.
But the rain also falls on the just and the unjust, so sometimes things just happen with no rhyme or reason to it.
Nature, the animal kingdom, bowhunting, and hunting in general... they are all great blessings & privileges that we have been given by God, and I am thankful for the opportunity... But I direct my gratitude to the Creator, not the creation, mojo, karma, etc.
Archie, I believe the closest equivalent to what we were discussing would perhaps be called 'divine grace' in your faith, or may relate to things such as 'chairos'.
(
"Archie, I believe the closest equivalent to what we were discussing would perhaps be called 'divine grace' in your faith, or may relate to things such as 'chairos'." - no offense intended here but just not correct, I am with Archie, he has explained the Biblical perspective of this concept/phenomenon clearly.
I think everyone should speak in terms of "I believe", as faith is not fact and nobody should ever tell somebody how it is based on their opinion. There are facts and then there are faiths. One has nothing to do with the other.
Etter - You have made a great point.
QuoteOriginally posted by ScouterMike:
"Archie, I believe the closest equivalent to what we were discussing would perhaps be called 'divine grace' in your faith, or may relate to things such as 'chairos'." - no offense intended here but just not correct, I am with Archie, he has explained the Biblical perspective of this concept/phenomenon clearly.
I think the discussion was evolving into a type of "ecumenical" thought experiment and people were sharing information and ideas. Archie chose to speak in 'absolutes' and I simply made a proposal as to finding some common language with which to describe our experiences in the woods. You seem to be adding to the absolutes and are either moving toward having the last word or starting a debate, a debate which really has no place on a bowhunting forum. Let us please keep a dialogue going and enjoy the variety of personal experiences to be shared on this subject, otherwise I propose a mod kill the thread before I and others start talking in OUR absolutes and we get WAY off topic. :)
Prolly a good idea.
ChuckC
Nineworlds - Sorry, no absolutes intended, that is why I referred to it as a "perspective". I believe that perspective is helpful to the discussion. Your attempt to find common ground is appreciated even if I do not agree with your reference. Archie did state it as an absolute from his perspective and I do not believe anyone here has a problem with someone standing for their beliefs.
QuoteOriginally posted by Archie:
There's no such thing as an abstract "force" that empowers some and afflicts others. Whatever you call it -- mojo, luck, karma, etc. -- and whether one believes it guides animals, arrows or lightsabers, it's all bosh. Superstition.
But there is a Creator who made all things, who at times intervenes in His creation and blesses or afflicts individuals as He will. So if one properly respects God's creation and ways, they may find things going well. To casually dismiss that as an impersonal force, karma, or dumb luck is, I believe, disrespectful.
But the rain also falls on the just and the unjust, so sometimes things just happen with no rhyme or reason to it.
Nature, the animal kingdom, bowhunting, and hunting in general... they are all great blessings & privileges that we have been given by God, and I am thankful for the opportunity... But I direct my gratitude to the Creator, not the creation, mojo, karma, etc.
Amen
Sometimes religion, and a few other topics get a bit weighty for discussion, especially on these boards. There may even be a rule limiting it, can't recall.
Probably the religious talk is tolerated very well, but what if my God is a different God, or what if I follow several Gods, or (gasp) have no belief in a God at all. Will that cause an argument ? Will that cause the whole conversation to collapse ? Am I right, or is he ? Prove it ! Religion, and lack of it has caused many wars in the past, let's try to keep one from TradGang. . .
Can we ?
ChuckC
Cool deal Scouter'! Well heard.
I'm still just a little twitchy from that Colorado Moose thread where anyone questioning the hunter or ethics of the situation was lumped in with the antis and liberals; it almost was degenerating into a 'youre with us or against us' atmosphere. As it stands it appears the facts have finally come to light on that hunt and we all got a little overexcited over a red herring.
QuoteNope. I believe there are two factors in hunting, skill and dumb luck.
Ditto.
Reminds me of a tournament I shot in several years ago, when a guy I was shooting with got his third and last "lucky arrow" destroyed when I robin-hooded it...in the rear-end of a mountain lion target. None of the three were very lucky that day.
Also reminds me of the saying--the guy who works the hardest seems to have the most luck!
No. I think if the deer were polled they'd say my intents were pretty awful and evil.
I respect the deer and try for a quick kill; but my karma must suffer terribly with evert success.
If you believe in such stuff. I don't think there is any real-time earthly reward or punishment for your actions from the cosmic or heavenly referees. That comes later.
It's impossible for me to get on board with any sort of organized religious thought, but I see it's probably not likely the other way around either.
I'm probably just some sort of barbarian, woodsy, hippie.
Either way, I'm headed to north ga bear camp in the morning where I can ponder such problems that I have with my personality.
This energy that Adirondackman speaks of is what I believe exists, like the Tao, an energy that courses through the universe and is in all things living and not living. This is something that has been understood by mankind throughout history. As you can see by the responses that some believe it and some don't. Makes no difference that some don't believe in it because it is not necessarily a religion. It will still exist. The unknowable that we get a glimpse of now and again when we see an amazing view or a sky filled with stars or a rare animal and we know its is there. Aside from the various interpretations which I find meaningful and helpful in my life I know that this energy source is likely the same one that other cultures also know. So when I hunt I'm looking not only for game but I'm looking for the source at work and try to be in tune with it as much as possible. We hunters call this blending in, you know when you are blended when the creatures appear again going about their business. Experience has taught me that blending is easier if your mind and body are in tune and when you are in tune your game will show it self and if you have done your part you will be offered opportunity. Nearly every animal I have ever taken when I knew I was in tune gave itself over to me like a gift. We can still make it happen when not in tune and I have by my skill alone but it was often not so easy or almost didn't happen. You experienced hunters out there, you know what I'm talking about when an animal seemed easily taken versus one that seemed taken by sheer force. You still have to do the things that all hunters must do to try and make a hunt successful, I'm just saying that I have at times sensed a different dimension to my hunts and that my personal condition while hunting makes a difference in the outcome. This energy affect everything in nature including you. :)
QuoteOriginally posted by Gooserbat:
Nope. I believe there are two factors in hunting, skill and dumb luck.
X2
QuoteOriginally posted by Gen273:
QuoteOriginally posted by Gooserbat:
Nope. I believe there are two factors in hunting, skill and dumb luck.
X2 [/b]
Ditto.
I believe there are things that happen in the natural world that we are NOT supposed to understand, quantify or figure out...
There are such threads appear periodically over my years here regarding such things.
I believe that there is MYSTERY in things in the natural world... but being that I am a finite being in an infinite world, I know I cannot comprehend it with any authority, so I just don't try!
I smile with the positive of the "unknown" happens and I shake my head (and smile later) when the oddities of the outdoor pursuits work in my disfavor.
Some similar threads talk about "honoring the fallen animal."
In that regard, I respect all animals I hunt but in the end, I worship the Creator, not the creature.
I think animals can pick up on your vibes. Similar to walking into a room and sensing the tension in the air before you know whats going on. I have noticed with myself that when I put a lot of pressure on myself to succeed and am tense about it, that animals go around me. When I am relaxed and good natured then they seem to not notice me without legitimate and tangible reason.
Nope!
Karma......kind of like," what goes around comes around".
I cannot say that I think it really pertains to the success or non-success of a hunt,and success in this case meaning a filled tag.
Lots of good views here,makes the wheels turn on a rainy afternoon which is a good thing.
I put a lot of time into shooting my bow, a lot of time into understanding and learning about the animal I am after,and then a lot of time in the woods.
Every now and then all the dots connect and the picture becomes complete.
Good Shooting,
Craig
Karma can take a lot of forms, mystical, spiritual, and just plain physical.
If I feel especially good today, and because of that I am more alert, and more able to recognize and pull off a situation in my favor, I can feel like karma played a role. Why not ?
Lots of times I made last minute changes to my routine, or to what I was planning, only to walk right into a favorable situation. Karma ? Luck ? a feeling ? Whatever. I will call it whatever I want to.
enjoy
ChuckC
Johns so many of the "old ways" are not "listened" to by most. we ( I ) believe in what has happened to me and what works for me, this i can tell you is %100 true as regards to karma and and what many call the 6th sense. now with that being said i have not killed a deer with a bow yet! i am relating towards my relationship and views with nature as a whole.
I want to believe and used to believe. I carry trinkets and animal parts and whatever else that bring me luck. Yet they do not seem to always do so.
Perhaps I am getting skeptical and Cynical in my old age but think it comes down to skill and luck. I still try to act in a respectful manner to the land, game and persons I meet.
I see way too many people kill animals who shouldn't "deserve" them when it comes to Karma. Hence the reason I question the existence anymore.
Nope. No such thing as an impersonal force we get to manipulate.
I believe a positive attitude is good karma. Take it with you wherever you go.
Karma... I don't know,but I hear nose-jammer and corn works for a lot of people. Sorry,couldn't help myself. :goldtooth:
You know me John..... That about speaks for it's self.
All I can say is... It works for me!
No at least as it relates to hunting success or lack of.
No such thing as luck or "Karma". Its the point in time where preparation meets opportunity!
I don't believe in "Karma" but I do believe I have "Faith" in Jesus Christ!
Whatever if asked in His son Jesus name He will do and if it doesn't happen He has a reason to why...Well that's what my good book tells me and that I do believe! <")))><
No
"Karma" is a principal in most belief systems. I think there is no one keeping tabs on my rights and wrongs, tallying them up to see if I "deserve" to kill a deer, or any other animal. Skill, preparation and coincidence/happenstance/luck is what puts meat in the freezer IMHO.
That being said I did thank my Father after putting deer on the ground twice last year.
Dont know about karma, id call it Mojo, like a bow made by a friend,or something from a past hunt, or any type gift. I have some knives,a nd hats that to me are special, and have been on some hunts that weree special, and not necessarily game harvested, just fun hunts with special friends.
The only person I have seen Karma work for had a "Hot and Spicy"exwife and a Beauty of a Mexican housecleaner. :biglaugh:
Nope!