Trad Gang

I have collected and studied Native American artifacts for over 30 years. I have a Authentication service for Native American Artifacts of the Ohio Valley Area.
The question I have is does anyone know of someone that has taken a animal with a authentic and ancient artifact point ? I know several people have with modern knapped points but I have never heard of this done. I think that would be the ultimate to do this. For 2 hunters that lived thousands of years apart to take game with the same point, talking about tradition!!!!!
If anyone knows of this ever being done please reply, I have wondered often about this.
Here is a few ancient points found in my local area. these rascals played a big part in me hunting with a stick bow.
                        thanks, Billy

  (http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j22/WPBarrett/DSCN1888.jpg)

Nice collection.

Dang,those are sweet,they are fine examples for sure!
Myself although I think it would be neat to do,I just couldn't see me hafting one up and shooting it,an artifact that is.I just don't find points that often.

Those hornstone points are very nice!

I know what you mean there archer, but there are plenty that get plow damage that could be resharpened. Most of them end up in a coffee can in someones closet, I have hundreds of them, even our ancient friends resharpened their points and reused them. Most of the relics in the pic are knives, and a few spear points, I'll try to post later some points that they used as arrow tips, the bow didnt come around until about the late Woodland time period 2300 - 1800 B.P. atleast thats what I've been told and read.
              Billy

I have often thought about it, but I have never found one yet, so if and when I do, I doubt I would haft it up and go hunting. It seems like it would be a great tribute across time though.
I think that is why I like knapping so much...that old connection ya feel with the ways of yesterday.

thanks guys, heres some Fort Ancient and Madison points that were used on arrows, probably around 2500 to 1600 B.P.
I doubt they would be legal in our day, they are all under 2 " long and only around 5/8 wide. Notice the point up in the right hand corner, they must have hunted alot of birds, its only 1/2 long.

            Billy

    (http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j22/WPBarrett/DSCN1650.jpg)

I have often thought about doing that myself. In fact after reading this I dug an arrow out of a box in the closet that I hafted a point to I found in a field several years ago. I pressure flaked the edge back to make it nice and sharp but I haven't actually carried it to the woods with me yet. I have killed several deer with points knapped myself but using an authentic one does draw me for some reason. I think this one is from flint ridge material but am not 100% sure. Anyway I may have to take it to the woods this year. I found this in a disced field in Parke County Indiana.

(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l87/adeeden/flintpoint.jpg)

I guess my only concern would be that it may be brittle from it's age, but when I touched up the edge the flakes sure popped off good!

looks great adeeden, flint is like wine it gets better with age, I would go for it. I plan on finding a good arrow maker and trying it myself oneday, I just have to find out the local laws here in kentucky, I might have to go out of state.
That looks like a Early Archaic Side Notch ( Big Sandy ) point you got there, around 9500 - 7000 B.P. but its hard to be sure with the hafting. You picked a good one. That time period is right after the Paleo dudes was hunt'in the mammouths.
  good luck and let us know how it goes.

    Billy

Billy, Go north my freind there legal in Indiana and Illinois! Looking at your collection I had to run out to my truck and grab the ones i found this spring, most of the ones i find are broken but occasionaly find a good one. I found part of a pendant this spring as well. These were all in my ashtray until a moment ago!

(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l87/adeeden/springpoints.jpg)

wow man, those are nice, the second point on the right up from the bottom looks to be a Paleo or transitional Merserve, that dont need to be rattling around in the truck. those bring a high price. check the bottom of the point and see if it has grinding or smooth on the base. they all look nice, you have some good points there, thanks for showing.

                   Billy

wow!!! you guys are so lucky to have such a rich history. i love  that sort of thing. i will be using a knapped head to take my first usa deer this year. i will be making a rivercane arrow with turkey feathers and a knapped head while i am staying in virginia. man its going to be a hoot.  :thumbsup:

Thanks for the Look Billy, I knew there had to be more collectors here... I also have the arrowhead fever with a room full of rock's I have found here in NY and a few shelves of Anasazi pottery I have bought. I havent tried the authentic arrowhead dealy, but I did hear of someone last year who did use one on deer, it was on one of the arrowhead forums(prosbb.com maybe?). Man those Ft. Ancient sites are loaded with the drilled bone ornaments....here are some triangle points, mostly lance, but some smaller Beekmen's and Lavanna's that were proably arrowheads. (http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u232/oneshot32/000_8162.jpg)

I have a buddy that shot a small doe with my Brack Drifter, a cedar arrow, and a hafted/glued Bolen point that he found on an archaic site here in GA. The point is 6500+ years old, it didn't break , the shaft stayed in the deer, she went about 70 yards. Thats the only kill with an ancient head that I know of. Thats the only deer that that bow has killed, I don't even hunt with it. Here are some point we find river diving down here (years ago) . It's illegal to pick them up now, even out of rivers, what a crock of @#*% huh ?  (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-3/1250223/stanfield.jpg)   (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2007-3/1250223/points1.jpg)

Scweet big Azz blade! Awesome river stain and polish Flintdiver....Thanks for the look..

I have shot a deer with an old point.  I collect artifacts here in Iowa (VERY slim pickings compared to what you guys get in IN, IL) and have for some time.  I always wanted to do it, but given the number of points we find (the ones in the pic above that were found "this spring" would be a good decade around here) I never did.  A couple of years ago I was given a coffee can full of Texas points with no provenance.....so I resharpened one and it worked just as one would expect.  It was the kind called "Tortugas" for those who are interested.  

I shot a doe with this point last year.......first deer killed with a Clovis point in Iowa in some time I suspect!
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b36/flntknp17/Picture163.jpg)

Here is a typical point in my quiver.  This is one that I made of novaculite.
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b36/flntknp17/Picture049.jpg)

Here are the points we find here in Iowa.......in our area each point in this frame represents 35-40 hours of searching.......you gotta be hard headed to keep looking here!
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b36/flntknp17/Picture075.jpg)

Matt

I'll be giving it a whirl this year.
I have 3 artifacts sharpened and hafted on
rose shafts. They each had some minor damage on them so I decided to sacrifice them for a chance at killing a deer with one.

In fact I'll be hunting on and around the same property that I found them most of the time. The osage for the bow also came from that area as well as the arrow shafts.

I hope the old boy's that made them will be proud to see them still in use.

I also have a couple modern knapped heads ready to use, too. I'll probably use one of the modern ones first.

Awesome stuff. I see people looking in the recently discedfields here all the time, yet I have never gone. I have yet to find an old point, Im still waiting and look carefully whenever I am out and about. Cool stuff. I cant help but think that it is a tribute to the ways of old. Cant wait to see pics.

Great points guys, and thanks for the replys, I'm glad to see some people trying this, and just remember if ya dont leave them kill points in the woods someone 5000 years from now can't try the same thing.  :)  keep them rock pics comming, I never get tired of seeing them.

                       Billy

Nice collections guys! I've got similar collections, pots, piece of a moccasin, beads, etc... Really cool stuff for sure. I'd love to see some of yalls stuff in person.

Yes, to answer the original question. During Texas Sweat a few years ago a local Outdoor Show showed up on the ranch to film all the Traditionalists. Vinson Minor was knapping flint for the crew when I came into camp. I had found an almost paleo point and I wanted it resharpened to use while there. The ranch owner wouldn't let us keep artifacts so I decided to use it. The crew followed me out and filmed while I shot a javelina with the head. There was some excitment and a few problems but we got it all on film. It became almost a historic thing for those there. We all watched the video that evening and I'm quite sure that no-one there will forget it. Good luck if you do try and use one of our ancestors tools! CK

 (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ck/img_0265.jpg)

Billy,

 I live a little ways away from Ft. Ancient. I have never found an arrowhead but I haven't realy looked. However I have a freind that said I could look through some of his less than perfect stuff and rework them and use them. I plan to take him up on it soon as feel good enough about pressure flaking to take on something that historical. I've made my own points but I don't feel worthy of working a real point.

I've lived and played on the Tennessee river in North Alabama my entire life. Here's a little bit of what I've stumbled upon the last 40 some years......Tell me what all I've got here...THX Don and Skyler (http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k209/rickybob_2006/CIMG0983.jpg) (http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k209/rickybob_2006/CIMG0984.jpg) (http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k209/rickybob_2006/CIMG0982.jpg) (http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k209/rickybob_2006/CIMG0981.jpg) (http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k209/rickybob_2006/CIMG0979.jpg)

DW,you have some really nice relics, the antler tip points were used just like a arrowhead. and the lanceolate type points with the flutes are as old as they get here in the states, they are known as Clovis points. It looks like you have relics from just about all the time periods we have had to date. Paleo, Archaic,and Woodland.
 You have a great collection, thanks for sharing.

            Billy

Thanks Billy!

This thread has really got my interest! Where are some of the best places for looking for old points?

T.J.   the best place to look are plowed fields just after a hard rain, and also I walk along creek banks and sand bars in larger creeks and rivers. you have to develope an eye to spot them around the creeks. email me and I'll be glad to send you some links to web sites about this stuff.

 takecare and God Bless,  Billy

Most of our fields are now no-till, which means very little broken ground and more weed cover....not a very good combo. Most of ours came from the river banks after a big flood or high water, back several years ago. Illegal to do that now. The over-hangs and cave shelter's in and on the surounding mountain-sides accounted for the rest. WE'RE only about 10 miles from Russell Cave, which is well known for some very old relics..Don and Skyler

Thanks for the look DW, some great artifact's, antler point's, shell beads and bangle's, discoidial(cupped stone), Clovis, some kind of stemmed critter's...,sweet Pendant, nice Turkey tails,Agate basin?, Daltonish critter in lower left...T.J.check ANY disturbed dirt, construction, up-rooted tree's, road building, washed out stream banks, wood-chuck holes, etc.Look for material, flakes, chips, in Ohio you have Flint Ridge, a very colorfull flint, some blacks, gray's and whites glossy and dull flint also.Look for "worked stone", grinding or polish, Axes, celt's etc. Walk easy useing a stick to flip over and poke at anything that catches your eye,early am or later in the day is a better time cause the angle of the sun...Good Luck

I think the reason I dont find anything locally where I hunt has been discovered. I kinda feel foolish for never noticing...
Stopped at a nighbors house, his family  has owned land here for generations. We started talking about Native Americans, artifacts, etc. I commented how I have never found anything in the woods. He said "Ya probably wont" and produced some pictures from the early 1900's. They stripped the whole mountain and terraced it into fields. Thats when the light bulb went off    ...walk through these woods its a 45 degree agnle, then flat, then up another 45 degree angle, then flat.
Guess I should try the lowlands or river bottoms.

Here is a small fraction of my collection. I have too many to show them all.

assorted pieces:
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t164/Odji-Tut/100_0363.jpg)

This is my favorite piece. It's translucent knife river flint:
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t164/Odji-Tut/100_0361.jpg)

Here is a nice Quad:
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t164/Odji-Tut/100_0359.jpg)

Lost Lake:
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t164/Odji-Tut/100_0358.jpg)

Here are some more of my best including a perfect Gorget and a nice big St. Charles Dovetail:
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t164/Odji-Tut/100_0349.jpg)

Don, that Turkeytail (4th on top row) is really nice! I've searched for one of those for 20+ years   with no luck. It's worth a fair amount as is the clovis.

(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d22/johndill/Picture337.jpg)

A few heads from the mound builder period found on our family farm in North Georgia. Most are knives scrapers and atlatl heads. Any one guess what that center stone is?

flintknpr17,
Way to go on our Traditional Harvest.  Your knapped head is just beautiful!  I wish I had the time and knowledge to accomplish that.

John, I'd think the center piece is a net sinker.

Man....That didnt take long! Knife River thats exactly what it is! Good job!

I used to work with an older gentleman in TX (now deceased) that had shoe boxes full of arrowheads and knives, along with other artifacts. I wish I had some pics, he had some great stuff. On his property he even had a historical marker, because it was the spot where Cynthia Ann Parker (mother of the famous Comanche chief Quanah Parker) was recaptured by the Comanche.

Btw I'm jealous of all the heads you guys have found.  :p  When I lived in Vernon TX I looked for arrowheads and never found even one.