What is the single most contributing factor or at least your top few for getting deer in bow range? :campfire:
Wind. All other elements can be right, if the wind is wrong they will either busy you, or, you'll never even see them. Just my opinion.
Jake
Here are a few that comes to mind, and they are in no particular order.
1. Right Setup, Stand/blind placement.
2. Hunting Pinch points and natural edges.
3. Knowing and hunting the wind.
4. Patience/Woodsmanship
5. Finding and hunting the preferred food source.
Corn! :thumbsup: It's legal here in ky and will make a lazy hunter of you for sure. I know there is lot f controversy on using bait, but if it's legal where you hunt you can sure fill the heck out of some antler less deer permits!
Best of luck to you this season!
I did a poll once in KY and 85% of deer hunters use bait. That includes gun hunters. Its not my thing, but its the sad truth we have a whole generation that believes you cant deer hunt without corn, and its tottally acceptable. It is not legal on public land, but alas, i find it there too. The only plus to this is it is less crowded on our public land for that reason, no ATV's and no baiting is allowed. I enjoy hunting our public land, while Billy Bob sits over his corn pile on a 2 acre woodlot somewhere. Most of the discussions on our states hunting forum are corn related, with photos of feeders, and beat down bare earth that looks like a feed lot. I reckon its legal, but to me, not much like hunting. Hunting turkey over bait is not legal, which is something I cant see how they enforce, and bears making a comeback in KY are another problem, its illegal to feed bears, but legal to feed deer ! another headache im sure for our fish and wildlife enforcers. I suppose it will take a breakout of CWD or some other nasty disease to shut this down, but for now corn, and $$ is king.
Mr. Grider. X 2
I would have to say the ability to be quiet and still. For some reason, I have always been very fortunate to get deer in close. Last year I had a doe and two yearlings all withing 7 yards of me (I was hunting on the ground, with out blind)and the yearlings literally came up and stared me in the face. So I believe they smelled me, however they were not alarmed because I was still. Hope this helps, and good luck this season!
I would go with being quiet and still also then add a little patience. :archer:
All of the above, I do not agree with changing the natural environment too much, so no artificial funnels or feeders. However, there was this one pipe tobacco I used to smoke. I do not understand it, but it was based on a tobacco called deer tongue, I believe it was named that because of how it looked, not that deer would eat it, every time I would light up I would get a deer in my lap. Never shoot a bow with a pipe in your mouth, as my brother found, your teeth and the pipe will fly farther than the arrow.
staying dead dog still
Sitting long days on corn fields....nothing is as unpredictable and consistent as a corn field in my experience
90% scouting and 10% stealth to, during, and from the stand.
Woodsmanship
White acorns with the correct wind
Playing the wind.
Movement- don't be in a hurry. Stop and scan a lot. Move when the forest moves, say if its breezy and the branches and trees are swaying etc.
Sound- move when the wind makes noise, move when there are birds or squirrels making a racket (not because of you)
Try to think like a deer...where would you want to go? What paths would you want to take? Its pretty neat when you study the forest hard enough and suddenly see all the natural game trails pop out.
Wind, hunting where there are deer and wind........
Wind favorable
Area unmolested
See him before he sees you
IMO baiting before or during the hunt NOT fair chase
QuoteOriginally posted by randy grider:
I did a poll once in KY and 85% of deer hunters use bait. That includes gun hunters. Its not my thing, but its the sad truth we have a whole generation that believes you cant deer hunt without corn, and its tottally acceptable. It is not legal on public land, but alas, i find it there too. The only plus to this is it is less crowded on our public land for that reason, no ATV's and no baiting is allowed. I enjoy hunting our public land, while Billy Bob sits over his corn pile on a 2 acre woodlot somewhere. Most of the discussions on our states hunting forum are corn related, with photos of feeders, and beat down bare earth that looks like a feed lot. I reckon its legal, but to me, not much like hunting. Hunting turkey over bait is not legal, which is something I cant see how they enforce, and bears making a comeback in KY are another problem, its illegal to feed bears, but legal to feed deer ! another headache im sure for our fish and wildlife enforcers. I suppose it will take a breakout of CWD or some other nasty disease to shut this down, but for now corn, and $$ is king.
exact same deal here in Arkansas, kids are being raised to sit over a corn pile and no woodsmanship needed...
but to the OP question, for me, set up is #1 I primarily hunt structure that means bottle necks or terrain changes, then finding that perfect downwind spot within that bottle neck is what I look for, but finding that one feed tree they are preferring is a real bonus as well
All great answers, but since most of us are tree sitters,
I'm gonna say finding the very best tree to put your stand in.
There are those places where a deer will be every day, just up to us to find it. Now once you find it you gotta have patience,
Have to be quiet, wind right and all other things it takes to get a shot. But if your not in the right place none of this matters.
I went to one of Barry Wensel's Whitetail clinics a few years
Ago, he could not stress this enough. This is where your scouting comes in, spend twice as much time scouting as you do on stand, you will reap the rewards.
RW
I know there is controversy on baiting especially when corn comes up but isn't scent lures like for a doe in heat hung up right next to your tree stand the same thing as baiting?
Picking the right spot to set up
I hunt traverse trails along and across water. Usually between bedding and food insures that they will be there daily. I just set up on these and wait.
Confidence to stay put in the chosen spot.
Wind, patience, and food.
Doing your homework.
Scouting, patterns, and most importantly, hunt the sign. If they aren't there, you are just sitting in the woods.
You have to be where the deer wants to go! Then wind direction, sound, stealth and all that other stuff comes into play. Otherwise, it's just a pleasant day in the woods.
Wind is number one, then movement in my opinion.
Still plan on talking with you Rob , when I get a chance.
Wind, Scouting, Working to make things come together and then you will get close and make your luck. And that's when your friends will call you a lucky hunter, Season after season
Aside from picking the right tree, I'm becoming more convinced that access to the tree is the most important. I think more deer are alerted during entry and exit than anything else. Think about this: outside of the rut, your stand is going to need to be 100 yards or less of bedded deer if you are going to see them, let alone get a shot. Getting to a stand that involves walking a hundred yards trough thick crunchy leaves in open timber is going to be nearly impossible. This spring/summer I spent a lot more time trying to improve the access to my better stands. Even going as far as what Uncle Gene and Barry do which includes raking out footsteps in the leaves leading to the base of the tree. I'm also not into trying to worm my way through extremely thick/noisy cover to get to a tree. Trimming out a path in the summer may seem like a lot of extra work but it makes it so much easier to get in and out when season starts.
I'm a big believer in not over hunting a spot and having as little impact as possible. Learning to sit still for long periods is another big one that took me a long time to learn.
I think the better way to put it is that you don't get deer to come into bow range but rather get in bow range of where the are gonna be.
Excellent advise above.
Its not really complicated but not easy or ever a for sure thing.
Find point a, then find point b, then when the wind is right hunt the best route between point a and b.
That is the basic starting method. From there wisdom, experience, and woodsmanship will help fine tune those decisions.
Baiting will fill tags but teach absolutely nothing and in no way benefit you as a hunter. I'm not saying its wrong, or that anything is bad about it. But it will teach you nothing. Then when u hunt places that don't allow baiting you will not have the skills to put all the pieces of the puzzel together. And if you teach future generations to hunt and are hunting bait you teach them nothing.
Here in Michigan 90% of hunters bait. Its all fine and good but a couple years ago when baiting was banned for a couple years the hunting world was in a panic saying " no baiting...how will we see a deer". Lot of people that don't bait here killed just as many deer as they normally do those years.
Baiting is legal, understandable with today's hectic and give it to me now world. But if you are interested in becoming the best hunter you can and develop woodsmanship skills I'd recommend enjoying the learning curve, occasional tag soup, and doing it without bait.
Like nineworlds9 said...you've got to play the wind to get deer within bow range however, you also have to keep your movements to a very minimum otherwise deer will pick-up on your movements and shy away from your location no mattef how well you are using the wind to your advantage.
Keep your presence a secret, if they know your there, they won't be. We have to fool not only their senses, but also their instincts both natural and those taught by us the hunter. I am thoroughly convinced that the only way to do this is to hunt, live and learn. How we choose to bring them in or to keep our presence a secret is what will define and set us apart from others as hunters.
its all in the timing....you gotta be there when they are.
It is so complicated... So many variables...
First forget anything marketing has taught you...
Magazines are marketing tools, tv shows are marketing tools, video's are marketing tools...
Forget all the product placement,,,,
Next THINK!!! hunt where the deer want to be at any time...know why they want to be there... when they are going to be there...
Stack the deck in your favor...
-Use the wind
-use the terrain...
-use light (stay in the shadows~and out of the sun)
-be as still as possible
-be as scent free as possible
- scout 4x as much as you hunt(preferably in the off season)
-hunt food sources early in the season (and late season in harsh
climates)
-Become a student of the whitetail and it's environment...
IN SHORT
I just read as many Gene Wensel books as I can...Then I ask myself, "where would Gene set-up on these deer?"He is the least pushy guy, that knows how to hunt deer and isn't trying to sell me anything, besides the book that I am reading... He has changed his opinions over the years on a few things... but so have I... I respect that... He predominately writes about trophy hunting...but it applies to deer hunting...
Wether you are looking to bag a monster or more meat for the freezer... you would do well to read any of Gene's books.. I read them every fall... and continue to better understand whitetail deer....
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob W.:
What is the single most contributing factor or at least your top few for getting deer in bow range? :campfire:
If you are moving - keeping the wind from giving you away and moving slowly.
If you are on stand - having placed your stand where the deer are at the time of day you will be waiting.
Try to hunt private land with unpressurized deer and you chances will increase dramatically!
If not.. Hunt the hottest sign/food sorce. And keep moving and staying on hot sign all season.
During the rut. Hunting all day and sitting funnel areas.
The magazines/books are certainly something to consider. Realize that some is good information, but some is written to simply sell articles. Even the good information will do no good if you do not devote the time to applying to your unique area...and I believe that while whitetails are whitetails wherever they live....each area is unique. Use the books and magazines as a starting point...but from there use your brain.
I try to scout as much as I can, but I still feel it is not enough. Think about it. The deer live there 24/7. They know their home turf better than you ever will. But the more you know about it the better off you will be. The most important thing about trying to put deer in front of you is to remember that it SHOULD be fun. Good luck guys!
Oh and never stop scouting. Deer patterns change as their food sources/ pressure change.
Time.
Little time in the woods means few deer will be seen, little will be learned, and few deer if any will be taken. You've got to put the work in.
On our farm it is definitely fences as funnels. Fences have corners and strategically places holes in them and low spots over them.
QuoteOriginally posted by pavan:
All of the above, I do not agree with changing the natural environment too much, so no artificial funnels or feeders. However, there was this one pipe tobacco I used to smoke. I do not understand it, but it was based on a tobacco called deer tongue, I believe it was named that because of how it looked, not that deer would eat it, every time I would light up I would get a deer in my lap. Never shoot a bow with a pipe in your mouth, as my brother found, your teeth and the pipe will fly farther than the arrow.
:goldtooth:
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob W.:
What is the single most contributing factor or at least your top few for getting deer in bow range? :campfire:
I didn't read any other responses...but my answer is....
ME!!!
For me it is not an intellectual decision. I let my instincts dictate my procedure. When I have tried to apply strict guidelines to my hunting process in the past I always end up violating it in some way.
I have let many deer that were within 10 yards go because something did not feel right. Some have been directly under my stand. Another time I took a very nice buck at 42 yds with a compound bow (years ago when that was an option for me). My instincts usually do not fail me.
Doug
Jon, cool point about making your entry to your stands more quiet and less invasive. Great point!! I have never thought about that before.
Jake
I understand a couple of the comments above concerning putting the food OUT for deer, and younger hunters who've never done it any other way. I like trying to hunt based on existing food sources - mast, corn and bean fields, etc. But I know a lot of hunters who have limited territory to hunt and shoot, and I can't blame them for placing and planting food to get the deer there.
Jon is right. Last year I walked in to 90 acre thicket as quiet as I possibly could. I had previously hung as stand a few yards in the woods.
From their actions, it was obvious a doe and fawn had seen me approach the stand area. They kept looking for me the entire time they were in the alfalfa.
Gary
snoring works for alot of people
QUOTE]I didn't read any other responses...but my answer is....
ME!!! [/QB][/QUOTE]
That's very simple and to the point. I like it! I am the only thing that I can control. All the other variable are out of my hands and I have to adjust to them....
QuoteOriginally posted by GreyGoose:
I understand a couple of the comments above concerning putting the food OUT for deer, and younger hunters who've never done it any other way. I like trying to hunt based on existing food sources - mast, corn and bean fields, etc. But I know a lot of hunters who have limited territory to hunt and shoot, and I can't blame them for placing and planting food to get the deer there.
GreyGoose,
I agree with you 100%. If it is legal and your neighbors have bait out, why wouldn't you do it to attempt to keep your deer on your land?
In Mississippi, you can bait, but not in sight(from my understanding, so correct me if i'm wrong) of from your stand.
Nothing trumps having the wind in your favor. What is so often overlooked is the scent that you leave. I always assume I get busted 5 to 1 by a deer crossing my track. Especially a cagey ole Buck passing through later at night. Access is key.
My style of hunting has evolved over the last few years. I am an unapologetic trophy hunter and that dictates a lot of what I do.
Basically, hunt often, usually a different spot each day unless during the rut. Paying attention to access and often crossing water at some point.
I am always on the lookout for areas that most hunters would not find interesting. One of the great advantages of ground hunting. If there is no tree you eliminate 90% of other hunters.
Here in Western Ky during the early season deer can be anywhere. With so much vegetation and crops in the field the only constant is water.
I probably pay less attention to food source than most. I really want to know where they bed and take it from there. Not a big fan of baiting. My generation started out small game hunting. Today the kids start out in a pop up blind. That cant be
good for our hunting heritage.
Scouting an area and being in the right place at the right time. Its part of the challenge and allure of bowhunting............
Simple answer to a difficult task.
Get between the deer and their food or between the deer and their bed while keeping the breeze blowing from the deer to you. Like I said, simple but difficult.
Lack of hunter movement and correct wind.
If you have those 2 things right, you can nearly wear neon and it won't matter.
Prior to the season-your absence, get your trimming and work done earlier in the year and then stay away.
Hunting Pressure: Obviously different types of land (public vs. private) require different tactics IN ADDITION TO the critical "stealth" factors of wind, scent, movement / concealment. When limited to a small parcel of private land, it is hard to not hunt different stand locations and if your neighbors are baiting, that can really change the normal movement patterns. If they are baiting, note the revised travel corridor the deer take to the bait and meet the deer there. On public land, it is quite hard to locate good spots that other hunters aren't using. Sometimes in these areas it's best to let the others work the deer towards you and this includes vehicle traffic. Small tight pockets can hold an amazing amount of deer when they think they are safe there.
Hunting the wind is a good starting point, but I wouldn't take it as the absolute rule. I've often killed deer downwind, and in atleast one case was the sole reason I got a shot on a nice buck. Grunted him in from 5-600 yards
just my opinion
wind most important
movement of hunter next
then blending in
picking the right time to shoot when they are in bow range
I don't believe in baiting deer....you can be successful without it and it makes you a better skilled hunter
baiting is illegal in Alberta except black bears
Woodsmanship
Location, location, location!! Whether stalking or stand hunting it's all about 'the spot'. Which of course is dependent upon woodsmanship and the guy doing the stalking/scouting/hunting and their ability to realize a perfect situation and capitalize.
All that said, I can tell you that bait in this part of the world for whitetails almost trumps everything I just wrote. Ya, ya you still have to find a big one and pick a good location, but almost all the big bucks taken these days here are being shot over bait from what I can tell.
Don't believe me, then just watch a few online episodes of Jim Shockey, or Canadian Whitetail Television or LIve2Hunt and you'll see what I mean. These guys are all shooting some huge whitetails here, and they are almost all shot over bait......maybe it's for ease of filming but I doubt it. They do it because it works.....really well.
I've never shot one over bait but I am fully aware of how well it works and I don't underestimate it's effect on success. Good hunting, Rick.
I have hunted the same private land for years and we have over 15 stands up on this property. When you sit in one for hours and hours you note where deer traverse so we adjust stand placement from observation. Our placement is now so good. It has been a process.
We don't move these during the hunting season. The 3 or 4 guys hunting in our group communicate what's been seen.
If I see a big boy working a certain area we tell each other. We have a coffee can with numbered chips for each stand. We leave a chip out to indicate what stand we are in so we don't screw up our partner that has gotten into a stand earlier, like after work.
QuoteOriginally posted by pavan:
All of the above, I do not agree with changing the natural environment too much, so no artificial funnels or feeders. However, there was this one pipe tobacco I used to smoke. I do not understand it, but it was based on a tobacco called deer tongue, I believe it was named that because of how it looked, not that deer would eat it, every time I would light up I would get a deer in my lap. Never shoot a bow with a pipe in your mouth, as my brother found, your teeth and the pipe will fly farther than the arrow.
Just OW!
Just stay still, hunt good fresh sign, keep the wind in your favor
Homework!!
I think more along the line of "What puts me in the path of the deer?"