A while back I decided to purchase a little better glove for myself and had always heard that the gloves with the strap over the fingers helped out a release a lot, etc.
So i found me a BW stick tite super glove(I love it). I have been shooting it only it for a few months now. Well if there was one thing "different" about it is the quality of leather and the thickness of it. My fingers literally NEVER get sore while shooting, my fingers are all calloused up, etc. So i decided to try out my damascus glove again. I can feel my anchor way better with my damascus glove as it is a thinner leather and i can feel the string better. But no matter what I do, I always hit 6" to the left(stiff), but when i swap back to the BW glove, I hit right where i'm looking.
I was wondering what you fellas think could be causing this difference. Thicker glove making me draw farther? Smoother release? mental?
Getting into your face to much with the thiner glove?
i don't believe so. I have the exact same anchor point(middle finger in crease of mouth), it just hits 6" left.
My first question to myself when I have somewhat of an anomaly is why doesn't everyone else have this problem. My usual final conclusion after sorting through every possible cause is that the mind is a far more powerful thing than we give it credit for especially when pertaining to archery.
I too would guess that your finger is probably just a hair further from your face due to the thickness of the material in the BW glove. Which just a minor lateral change could effect your point of impact that much.
Just a guess, mind you. I could be wrong.
your guess is just as good as anyones. I didn't know if the thicker leather put the draw a 1/4" farther, or something to that extent.
I do agree with you Rob, but i know that I have thought of that and was sure it wasn't me. I focused on drawing to my anchor, smooth release, etc.
I am thinking it is the thicker leather.
Wouldn't the thicker glove make you shoot left?
I found I gripped the string more with the thin leather glove. I liked the string feel but I think my mind told me I had to grip the string to keep from losing it.
I had the opposite happen to me, I am spot on with thinner gloves. I feel the string better and am able to adjust my finger pressure when at anchor because of it.
I shoot differently with different (thick / thin) gloves as well. Not sure why, but I just chose one and shoot with it. I tend to like the thinner gloves so I can actually feel things.
ChuckC
Some glove-tabs will change the relation of string to eye relationship.
I believe more often though one if not two things are happening. First is how clean is it coming off. More or less string osscilation will affect flight (dynamic spine). Neither is wrong by itself if it's consistent.
Second at least personally I've noticed some gloves-tabs I hook deeper than others. Some gloves like my current big shot I'm not capable of hooking so deeply, you guessed it changed impact. Even more so with the Ferguson style glove with cordovan overlays. I was trying to solve hand issues, which turned into impact issues.
I have issues with the back of my hand with my cordovan tab and Damascus glove. With the big shot the hand pains gone..... For now.
Out of curiosity have you tried rechecking tuning with the new leather to see what the shafts doing? It would rule out tuning or string-arrow-eye relationship.
Second at least personally I've noticed some gloves-tabs I hook deeper than others. Some gloves like my current big shot I'm not capable of hooking so deeply, you guessed it changed impact.
Exactly.... i think this is the issue...
ooops double post syndrome...
I would agree its the most likely cause....you just never know. The fun part of shooting stickbows, there is no rules...just a hole lotta grey inbetween ;)
I would think that the string would roll harder around (off) the fingers with the thicker glove. That would change the initial bend that goes into the shaft from archer's paradox, and affect the reaction and flight of the arrow.
http://youtu.be/wGNslUNBrEM
Just my $.02 !
QuoteOriginally posted by AkDan:
Some glove-tabs will change the relation of string to eye relationship.
I believe more often though one if not two things are happening. First is how clean is it coming off. More or less string osscilation will affect flight (dynamic spine). Neither is wrong by itself if it's consistent.
Second at least personally I've noticed some gloves-tabs I hook deeper than others. Some gloves like my current big shot I'm not capable of hooking so deeply, you guessed it changed impact. Even more so with the Ferguson style glove with cordovan overlays. I was trying to solve hand issues, which turned into impact issues.
I have issues with the back of my hand with my cordovan tab and Damascus glove. With the big shot the hand pains gone..... For now.
Out of curiosity have you tried rechecking tuning with the new leather to see what the shafts doing? It would rule out tuning or string-arrow-eye relationship.
I was actually shooting a mixture of bare and fletched shafts while noticing these results. They went just like this:
thin glove - did not show stiff, but did it 6" left. The fletched arrows did the same.
Thick glove - the arrows hit exactly where i was looking.
I do not know exactly why i am seeing the results I am. But it is interesting. It is just showing me that I will have to keep shooting my thick glove!
Are you able to hook as hard with the thick glove as you do with the thinner glove?
I know I cannot with the bateman with cordovan overlays the least, I also cant with the bigshot, but its a lot more comfortable. With the cordovan tab (not a no pinch style) I can deep hook the life out of that string!!! Damascus and deer skins are somewhere between the cordovan and the bigshots.
differences in impact are substantial enough or minute depending on what I'm going from but I also noticed the same issue. I shot the tab well, now I cant shoot it for a hill of beans when I convince myself to give it a try to go back.
I shot a Damascus for a lot of years early on I liked the feel. Never could shoot the deer skin or any of the bateman/hill style gloves they were too thick and the stalls came off repeatedly, drove me nuts. I ended up with the tab until I started having issues. At the time I shot a pile and paid dearly for it. A local coach called me out on it and years later it happened...I've never been able to fix it with the tab, seems simple but something in my head wont let me relax. Sure is a nice clean release, maybe someday I'll figure it out.
I started with a glove so I went back to a glove easy as mud right haha...Damascus was too thin, I still dislike deerskins (to thick). Bateman tore my face up and was crazy stiff but clean. Did change my impact. I'm shooting a pair of bigshots currently and like them. There's enough support on the back of my hand the pains not an issue. more importantly unlike the stiff bateman, the bigshot shoots similar to my tabs, though not as slick its close and the change in impact is nil.
The burying in the face deal is another issue that may or may not happen, along with changing your anchor all together. All of which changes the alignment and potential tuning.
Regardless, slight changes can bump you into needing adjustments either on the arrows or bow depending on how close you were to begin with.
If the arrows still fly/group right, tunings out, its an alignment issue, simple, or something else (plucking, looking etc)
If its not you know its likely a hook or some other change that should be quick to spot with a 2nd set of eyes or a camera from above and behind.
For me I was torqing the life out of my arrow with the tab before I swapped...frustrating as heck. The joys of shooting stickbows come with blood sweat and sometimes a few what in sam heck was that's LOL!
I have a number of gloves that I have used in the past. I found that the thicker gloves would not "grip" the string like the thinner gloves would do. The thicker gloves gave me a quicker and smoother release. It's almost like the thinner gloves would "hang up" a little when I would release. Some shots with the thinner glove had OK releases and flew accurately. Some shots were quite bad like pulling the trigger instead of squeezing the trigger with a rifle. Some shots were way off the mark. Ultimately I went to a homemade tab made from thick scrap leather. When the tab gets grooved from the string, I just make a new tab. I find that a grooved tab is much like a thin glove in that it can cause my release to "hang up" so to speak.
I have had similar experience. I feel that my thicker leathered glove makes for a smoother release.
I also feel like with the thin glove, it is so thin that it creates a little "wave" right before the string(the string catching) and doesn't have as smooth of a release.
Now as far as shooting a tab... I can't shoot a tab for the life of me! I know I don't have a smooth release on a tab. I screws me up! I can't stand the way the string feels on the tab.
I shoot 3-under, middle finger in corner of mouth, string in crease of first joint. Just started this style about a year ago. Again, with thick leather works well for me, with thin leather, not so good. Would like to try Cordovan, but have not been able to find scrap material. Leather shop did not know what Cordovan is. May end up buying Cordovan 3-under tab at 3R to give it a try. Like to make my own though.
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Job 28.28 (NASB)
I used to be the same way with the tab.
I went to a cordovan tab (Alaska bowhunters supply had them not sure if Ed still does or not). I bought a few and still have most of them, the few I don't I've lost, they wear a looooong time!
Personally I think a tab will give you a cleaner release. I like gloves that don't pop off. Dunno why I cant go back to the Damascus, but I shot out quite a few of them.
Someday I'll figure it out hopefully lol. As long as they keep making bigshots I'm happy!
supplier..
Horween leather company in Chicago (not cheap!)
I have always heard that tabs give you a better release, but I can't shoot one for the life of me. Horrible release, can't feel the string, don't feel like I have a good grip on it..
Too close to the season to try to start now..
Is the string in the crease of the first finger joints or is the string between the first joint and the end of your fingers ? Can't remember what to call that area. With a glove, I used to have the string out near the ends of my fingers. For me, that won't work with a tab. I have to have the string in the crease of the first joints. One result is that I am stronger during drawing and holding. The other result is that my release is better.