I've been checking out Hill style bows for the last couple of years but haven't had the chance to try one so I haven't purchased. I feel like I'm getting closer to buying one blindly. So who here has tried one and decided it wasn't for them and why. I'm currently shooting a widow pl.
Yes, don't shoot a straight grip well- regardless of how hard and often I've tried.
Go to local shoots where trad archers might be. Most or many will let you fondle their bow and even let you shoot it. Hill bows are neat and could be addicting, but are not for everybody.
ChuckC
I went in blind,3 yrs ago...bought 4.. sold 3..after 3 yrs of LEARNING HOW to shoot one..I now have 4 and that's all I care to shoot...give it some time. Burt
yes
I shot one and didn't like it. To hard in the hand and to much vibration and shock and stiffness for me. To be honest I feel you shouldn't buy one blind.
They are simple, elegant weapons that require discipline and dedication to shoot well. I have owned a good handful of them. I don't have one currently, but have figured out that the only type I really care for anymore is one with a stringfollow profile and a locator grip. If a straight grip it has to be a deep wedge/tear drop shape. They are not for everyone, but have loads of character and you can't beat em for simplicity. I would never make one my primary bow, I just prefer the performance and look of a modern hybrid, but I still have my eye out for the right one on the used market, or perhaps I will have one built to my specs someday.
Backset profiles will have more shot reaction than straight or stringfollow limbs. String material is a big influence. Forget Dacron or thick strings. A skinny string of FF material like D10 works wonders, especially when combined with an arrow of 10gpp or greater. They like heavy arrows because the design isn't terribly efficient. Light arrow will just make the bow bleed off energy into 'handshock'.
bsv said it.... You gotta shoot them the way they want to be shot, not the way you want to shoot it. They aren't for everyone. Simple bow and complex style! To be honest I have some days I feel like they aren't for me. Then the next I'm the second coming of Howard Hill. Well, maybe half that good...... And that's what keeps me shooting.
I don't find a little handshock shocking..... Have shot big bore revolvers like the 475 linebaugh, 460 S&w, and 500 S@W for years...... Neglible...... I shoot a longbow so much better than a recurve....
I have shot them at the archery shop, too thumpy for me! But to be fair I probably wasn't shooting a proper weight arrow but don't think a proper heavy arrow would of tamed it enough for my personal taste still! Lots of guys love them though, can't argue with that! If I ever get another one piece longbow it will more likely along the lines of a Whip or the like!
You need to try one for yourself,I'm a longtime longbow shooter.I didn't shoot one for years because I heard of all the handshock.Well I traded for one a few years ago.I didn't feel the handshock that I've heard about.They were all I shot for a couple of years,had up to five at one time.Still have two and still enjoy shooting them along with my other longbows.I love the D-shape and the way it shoots,just something about a Hill.I like a straight grip or a dish grip on my Hill's.I felt I missed out not shooting one for myself before.I could have enjoyed shooting them way back.
Hill style and self bows...I always want 'em then I shoot them and realize I do this for enjoyment and they manhandle me. I do not want to spend the time to master them, I'd rather use my limited time to hunt.
Yep. I love the look and tradition, but that grip style for me is the WORST and LEAST CONSISTENT of all grips I've ever tried. I just can't shoot them well.
If you like the Widow PL, you won't like the Hill style bow. For me to shoot a Hill style bow, it would require the same somewhat irrational dedication that caused me to want to shoot traditional bows to start with, but taken to a different level. My two shooting buddies both shoot Hill bows fairly often, so I've also tried them fairly often. But for me it's like eating liver: every once in a while I think I might like it, but as soon as I taste it, I know I don't. They're slow, they have hand shock, and they don't shoot where I'm looking. Other than that, they're fine.
If I want to get that rattled, I'll take my motorcycle off road ! But you really have to try it yourself. Definitely use a heavy arrow.
I bought one blind.......took some getting used to but once proper grip and form is accomplished they are the most fun to shoot. Nothing like going stumping with a Hill style and some cedars with judos and blunts. For me I found longer is better and don't go to heavy at first. I think I have 4 or 5 now.
Yes, just had to pick it up and I knew, the grip was all wrong.
Thanks,
I have never shot one that did not have a lot of hand shock and I hate the "thump"
My first was a straight handled NM. Hated it.
My second was a NM Shelton with a smaller grip but still straight. I like it pretty well.
My 3rd was a HH Big 5. Located grip. Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about!!!
With that said. I'm not hooked on them. Much prefer R/D longbows.
McDave pretty much summed up the way I feel about them.
I have a Widow PL and I love it....Hills, not so much. I have one no name Hill style in 55# that I've had for about 5 years that rattles me to the bone when I shoot it...so I never shoot it.
I thought it might be that this was a poor build because nobody knew anything about it. So I bought a HH Big Five to try out. Seems like it was 59# and 70" long. It was just as bad to me. I'm just not a fan of the grip, the "twang" and the hand shock. And I was shooting some heavy POC arrows through it (another thing I'm not a huge fan of).
I wouldn't mind trying another one in the 45-50 pound range...just to be trying it....if the price was right. But it would be dead last on my bow bucket list.
If you like your PL your money would be better spent on another rd/hybrid....easier on the hand/arm, shoots where you are looking, and they are faster. Just my opinion.
I love the thought of a long D shaped simple bow with a back quiver full of cedar arrows. I may get there someday but for now the reality of that hunting setup isn't my cup of tea.
I remember drooling over certain Hill style bows for a long time until I got to shoot them. The first arrow said this isn't for you right now.
I have one bowyer (Eaglewing) that I will beg to build me a hill style now...... I have a hunt specific idea in mind and I feel Steve is the only bowyer that can bring my vision to fruition ;)
I luv my HH Big 5 49# @ 29'
I use legacys 2018 cut to 29" with 125 up front....
No vibration or shock....
Terrible grip and they kick like a mule. No thanks!
I just don't get the hand shock thing..... mine just have a slight thump......just like my old Bear recurve. I have been beat up more by some R/D longbows, But that's why they have different kinds. There's something out there for everyone. :dunno: I must add.....mine are all light in poundage 40-46#'s.
Tried them 5 different times.
Won't be a 6th.
I'm with Steve O on this one.
This is a great thread.
Hill style bows are kind of like heavily hoppy flavored beers. The first time you try one, you hate it, but you eventually acquire a taste for them.
IPAs and Hill style bows for me ;)
They are an acquired taste...kinda like a tasty beer or aged wine. I'm relatively new to them. I love my r/d bows but there's just something about the Hill style bows. They draw me.
You know what they say...different strokes for different folks. Personally, I want to love recurves, but I just can't shoot them worth a darn and they are always so loud.
Don't worry about buying blind. Buy used and you can always resell it. You might lose $25-$50 at most, although you might come out ahead. It's all part or the fun.
Jsweka nailed it!
P.S. I had a Lagunitas Maximus the other day...nice IPA!
I resisted trying a Hill style bow for a long time. I just didn't think that a straight grip would work for me.
I picked up a NM Classic off the auction site two years ago. Yup, there was a bit of a bump that made it different from the R&D bows I had, but it wasn't bad. After shooting a couple a dozen arrows, I didn't even notice it any more.
As for the grip, it just fell in place without any thought. I was surprised! No need for me to even try a dished grip. Also, the straight grip, low wrist position solved the bow arm elbow pain I was having when shooting R&D longbows and recurves.
I now have five Hill style bows on the rack, and one R&D longbow that doesn't get shot.
I don't buy bows blind, period. In the past 20 years I remember shooting one Hill style that I kinda' liked, and more than I can count that I didn't. But, I've shot a lot of other bows I didn't like either.
I think it mostly has to do with how you shoot. I love my straight limbed bows; shoot them better than other styles. I get a handful of a grip, I like it that way. Probably why me and mast recurves don,t get along. I don't like anything high wristed, and deep locators are not for me.
But they're not for everybody. I don't pay much attention to handshock, but they do have some. Heavy arrows tame most of it, but the mass weight of the limbs causes them to have some.
They sure are quiet though. And pretty. And deadly. I love em, but you should probably try before you buy. P.S. I also have a PL, and don,t particularly care for it. It's a super nice bow, just not my style.
No, I tried, I like. Many of the Hill style bows I see at shoots are just not setup well. Usually braced too high. If you shot your recurve or r/d longbow that out of tune you would not like it either. If the bow is setup optimally then the brace height is much lower than the bow you were shooting and then the string is tapping your forearm which throws off the limb timing creating all kinds of nasty vibration and the hand shock reputation lives on. Either way you lose unless you bend that bow arm out and then if the bow is setup well you feel almost no vibration just like any other well tuned bow and you fall in love with them.
Having said all that I must add that my own son prefers a recurve. I thought I brought him up well, he had many hill style to try. I think it may be something in the genes, on his mothers side of course.
I'd rather shoot a nice selfbow. As others have said the Hill bow just isn't for everyone. There are mild r/d bows that I do like that have a similar look as a hill bow.
I shoot a hill style bow religiously once a year. That's more than enough for me right now. I keep an open mind though
I like a heavy riser 3 piece longbow and recurve. Have shot several Hill type bows and would rather have a sore toe. Shot a 3-d with a friend Sat., he was shooting a Hill type and loves it. He also shot it well. Everyone is looking for something different, as has been said try several before buying such a different shooting bow. Good luck and enjoy whatever you get. Thanks, Roy
i shot one once, a wesley special i believe. that day i discovered what hand shock is. :scared:
and if they require 'greater dedication' than what my recurve already requires then i'd have to quit my job and some how make a living from practicing with a hill bow all day every day.
question is can we get this thread to go up to 10000 posts like the HH bug thread? :biglaugh:
I bought one blind about 30 years ago after shooting a 67 Bear Grizzly from youth, I shot that same Hill Big 5 for 20 years. Loved that bow and shot it exceptionally well. An arm injury forced me to back off it's 65# draw weight. I was never able to bond with a lighter draw weight Hill that I could shoot as well so I mostly collect, and only shoot them occasionally these days. After a lot of wandering through a variety of bows I came full circle and finally bonded with a Schafer one piece recurve. I still crave the simple beauty of the Hill style bow though.
Not all Hill bows are created equal, so it does matter what you choose. I started with a Martin ML-10 and that bows didn't do it for me, went through a couple of others until I got my hands on a Northern Mist Retro Classic, and that's the best Hill I have shot.
QuoteOriginally posted by McDave:
If you like the Widow PL, you won't like the Hill style bow. For me to shoot a Hill style bow, it would require the same somewhat irrational dedication that caused me to want to shoot traditional bows to start with, but taken to a different level. My two shooting buddies both shoot Hill bows fairly often, so I've also tried them fairly often. But for me it's like eating liver: every once in a while I think I might like it, but as soon as I taste it, I know I don't. They're slow, they have hand shock, and they don't shoot where I'm looking. Other than that, they're fine.
Well said my feelings as well
I really wish I could like a Hill bow.
I have tried lots of Hill style bows from reputable bowyers and just do not see what is so great about them. I mean, yes they are simple elegance, yes they are light and manuverable, and yes they are sooo cool. But, with the uncomfortable grip, loose molars, and aching neck, I just do not like shooting them at all.
I've been shooting bows for a very long time and know they must be shot differently but geeze, it at least should be pleasurable.
Sorry, I gave it an honest try many times over the years. I'm just not a Hill fan. I'll take my Abbott longbow over a truck load of Hills.
Yep, and no thanks. I'll stick with hybrids.
I shoot a couple of Toelke Super Ds regularly. I have no loose molars as the "hand shock" is literally more like a pulse, I have shot recurves and d/r longbows with more. Why would I get an aching neck? The low grip is the only kind I want. It aligns with your forearm and puts no stress on your wrist. Mine shoot 9 to 1 or 12 to 1 arrows fine and with the heavier arrows there is not the steep drop in speed you get with most other bow types, especially recurves. Did I mention yet that these bows are QUIET?
It's great that we have so many different choices out there. To each his own, but they are not for me.
I figure that I can use all the advantages that I can get. I like a heavy riser recurve, heavy arrows, and longer working limbs. They all seem to be more forgiving.
QuoteOriginally posted by Tom:
Yes, don't shoot a straight grip well- regardless of how hard and often I've tried.
x2, sold a beautiful JD Berry creation due to the grip and I not getting along.
I tried one back '08 at Kzoo...when I first met Steve Turay...he handed me a Shelton to try..put about a dozen arrows through it, took it back to him and told him to build me one. Thats about all I shoot now.
I have a Super Shrew and a couple mild r/d bows and 5 Hill style.
They're not for everyone, but they are for me.
Handshock..humbug! Slow..not hardly, just not as fast and the speed difference narrows fast as the arrow weight goes up.
You have to like them and accept them for what they are and be wiiling to make a few changes to you shooting style otherwise your wasting your time.
Eric
I tried them, and I'll keep my Asian recurves. Just doesn't feel right.
Yes, but then I've shot some and said "heck yes!"
Not all bows are the same, I'd say the same about any style bow.
Even the generalities I read here don't always hold true from one bowyers craft to another. Just because a bow has less or more backset doesn't mean more or less vib.
I wouldn't buy a bow blind. Shoot one of whatever brands you are interested in before you buy one.
I would not buy a bow blind either. Having shot many different bows at shows, I can say that only a relative few have impressed me enough to consider purchasing them.
My first ever trad bow was the BW recurve in my signature, which I shot for a few years, and had never shot anything else. Then I got the chance to try both a BW longbow and a Hill-style side-by-side. Absolutely hated the Hill style, and fell in love with the BW R/D longbow. That Hill bow jarred my bow-arm shoulder so bad that it hurts right now just thinking about it.
I shot a Hill once and it kicked so hard that my brain rattled and my eyeballs flew out of their sockets so far that they were looking at each other.
In my limited experience with "Hill style" longbows, I'd say not all of them are equal. The ones being built by Howard Hill Longbows and a few other bowyers are true representations and they stand above the rest. I won't list the good ones and bad ones because it's just my personal experience. I do prefer a little R & D myself. :)
In order to properly judge them, I do believe you need to select a Hill longbow the way Howard Hill recommended and shoot it in the Hill style. For example, 26" draw, 66" amo bow length; 28" draw, 68" bow length. Hill was tall with broad shoulders, but he shot with a bent bow arm and used arrows 28" or so in length.
I see many so-called Hill longbows that are very short and they're being shot at long draw lengths.
I also like shooting bows of 5 to 7 lbs less draw wght to get the same performance I would from a Hill.
With a short recurve I can send an arrow off to different places by pulling hard with my ring finger or my index finger, that seems to be impossible with a Hill.
They are tools. You like them or you don't. No way to really know until you shoot one for a few days.
ChuckC
I pretty much jumped on cold. I was shooting a mild R/d longbow but had to have a Hill style. Yes, I shot a few for a couple of shots but no real experience. If I was to do it over agian I would buy a used Hill and try it. I went from a Black Widow MA11 to my Pete George longbow. I did have enough sense to use heavy arrows and not try and break the speed barrier with it. Still It took time and research and talking to " Hill shooters" to get comfortable shooting that bow.
I admire them and think they are cool; the one Hill style I own has not been off the rack in years.
All that shock to my arm seemed like a shoulder injury waiting to happen.... I prefer the smooth shooting stuff that goes "thuump" when shot.
The Hill bows felt like I was having my hand shook by a 6'4" salesman at a used car lot.
:laughing: :laughing: Man, you guys and handshock! I have all sorts of Hills and Hill styles--what the heck is "handshock"? Now a girl might think there is some, but not masculine he-men such as we have here. :rolleyes:
quote:
Originally posted by David Mitchell:
:biglaugh: Like I said earlier, I don't understand this handshock thing.
no handshock with my Morningstar.
Dave does not know how to get the proper amount of hand shock out of his bows, obviously. What you need to do is, point the bow at the target, lock your shoulder against the side of your head, lean back away from the target, lock that elbow,squeeze bow grip until the glue is coming out from behind the leather, go for a huge draw, pull hard with your index finger and jerk the release. Or do this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFqjNKC72dA&list=FLBUPq8uCA26B23gHSr6n1ow&index=27
I like Hill bows above all others.
I like em. Prefer flat to reflexed. Smoother!
I prefer a bow with a thump. That's the way they should feel.
To be fair, the two bows with the absolute worst shock I have ever experienced were both recurves. One I can't remember the name of...it was at the old Kentucky Klassic. The guy selling it had to have help stringing it--a bow stringer wouldn't work. It was really fast, but shooting it was akin to peeing on an electric fence.
The other...not going to call a name because it would likely aggravate someone. I shot a few of those, they were all the same.
The name of this thread should be changed to "The Howard Hill bug bit my hand!" :biglaugh:
I've had 1 ML-14, 4 Hills, 1 strunk free spirit, 1 Harrison HHC, 1 Ron Maudling same as a Wesley,
I bought them all same as a lot of you guys and just couldn't hit decent enough to keep em and even though I regret letting a few go I could never shake that calling,, the true traditional calling to use American longbows and selfbows..
recently I purchased James Berry's personal bow that simply blew me away and was the only bow to ever make it into my sig,,,,, I knew there had to be something out there that I shot good enough to keep.. hill style bows is a bow that once you figure out how it wants to be shot and you can easily make the adjustment then it will work well..
I think its probably a good idea to try a bunch of them out some where.
I once stopped at a bowyer as I was driving by. He took some time to show me his wares. I shot his personal Buffalo Style longbow out the back door to a target. It shot unbelievably good. I told him to build me one just like it.
A few months later the bow shows up. Looking totally different. I could not hit a barn with it. Terrible hand shock no matter what I tried. That bow went on to a number of different owners. I should have bought the Bowyers right there
The Hill style bows that I have do not have hardly any more hand shock than most recurves and less than many others. If you are among those that jam your bow arm you will not like straight grip bows. There is more or less a natural flex that happens. The whole Hill thing works better as a package and a fluid shooting philosophy. A bit of a hold at full draw is done by some and various draw techniques are used by others, but for the most part some or all of Howard Hills shooting philosophies are employed. It is not target shooting, but it is versatile. Handshock if it is not causing horrible pain is not the whole of bowhunting. Actually, over time even a Hill bow with a B50 string that seems shocky at first will over time not seem so shocky at all. The shooter adapts and the timing of the reaction to the shock makes it get less.
For me, it depends who built it.
pavan, the guy in that video is nuts! I wouldn't let even Howard Hill shoot an apple off my head. :eek:
I guess I need to try your suggested method of getting more hand shock out of my sweet shooting Hills and see if I can find out what these guys are talking about. :biglaugh:
I love the feel of handshock in the morning. Feels like victory! No wait, that's napalm.
I have shot recurves, r/d bows, selfbows, and I find that Hills are the bows for me. Honestly, I just don't get the handshock thing with Hills.
If you go directly from a recurve or R/D to a Hill bow you can sometimes feel the difference in recoil, particularly if you shoot with a straight arm, rigid target style. After shooting a while the recoil will ususally become un-noticable. I have owned and shot numerous Hill style bows and the degree of recoil will vary with arrow choice, limb style, handle dimensions, and bow weight. Once mastered using the right form, right bow size, and well matched arrows they can be as, or in some cases, more pleasant to shoot as any other design.IMO.
this thread is more entertaining than I thought it'd be...and after reading I'll say I'm definitely going to wait until I can try one....I'm looking to hold on to my teeth for now :goldtooth:
My grandson is here this week. He is shooting my son's old Tim Meigs Hill style kid bow. My son was kind enough to let his sister's kids have it. My grandson did not say anything about hand shock, considering that he is eight and kids are very sensitive to such things. I showed him the Schulz and Hill videos again. We have an apple tree, a McKensie deer. I asked my neighbor if we could put an apple on his head, he said no, so I asked the McKensie deer and he did not say no. He only got hit in the head the one time. His ears are a different matter.
If the bow is compatible with HMPE strings (fast-flight; D97, 8125, etc.), shoot one on a Hill-style bow and the bow will likely feel different (less handshock, a little faster, maybe quieter). I love and shoot Hill-style longbows, but I've shot a few that did have a ton of handshock with a B50 string. When I put a flemish-twist 8125 string (loops padded with several strands of B50) on those bows, most of the handshock went away and these "shocky" bows are now pleasurable to shoot.
But not all Hill-style bows are inherently "shocky". I've got a 50# Hill Big 5 (an earlier Craig Ekin bow) that shoots real nice with B50 (just a very mild "thump" at the shot, and quite fast) that I recently made an 8125 string for-- the mild "thump" is now barely perceptible, it's a little faster, and even quieter.
Liked the one, "Howard Hill bug bit my hand" that was funny.
Gun, I give or sell(at my cost) my bow, every year, my bow is nothing extra cool, fact is, I shoot the ones I don't like the looks of and it didn't make it out the door.
Thread should be named "Wish I was ready for the ASL BUG to bit me" ...James
An important thing to remember about the Howard Hill bows or longbows with very little D/R, is they just need the proper components to shoot nice. The string has to be the correct thickness, mass and material, the brace ht. has a very small sweet spot, as does the nock point, the arrow weight:poundage range is very small, the nock tightness on the string has to be perfect, and the arrow spine has to be spot on.
Once you get all that and master the way you grip the bow and your clean release/follow through, you'll have a bow that's very hard to beat and is an absolute joy to shoot. You won't want anything else. Most Hill styled bow shooters I've met may own other bows but they only shoot that one they've taken the time to get perfect. Then the other person they let shoot it, don't like it, because they don't draw the same length (no two people do) and it results in hand shock or something otherwise.
Because of that, the additional efforts it takes to tune one, the Howard hill styled bows get bad reviews.
Me!!!!!!!
I hate the grips and the hand shock! Some of them sure look good, but I just can't get past those grips or how much my teeth rattle when I shoot one!
Bisch
I
Yep. Have owned a bunch, and enjoyed them. Have killed game with them. Great journey. Fun at times. Frustrating at times. Right now, I haven't got time for them. I'm making a return to bowhunting, and I need something that gives me confidence. Something I know will forgive me if I make a form error or miss some practice. For me, that bow is a Black Widow longbow.
I like longbows(true longbows) but I don't like the handle on a Hill style bow. I prefer a bulbous type handle that fits my hand better.
Yes.
It seems like they need more tinkering than most bows to get them to shoot comfortably. The low wrist/heel of hand style grip feels very awkward to me(but I've been shooting recurves for 30+ years)
I like the looks of them but not as much as a recurve. They certainly have a devoted following though!
QuoteOriginally posted by JDBerry:
Liked the one, "Howard Hill bug bit my hand" that was funny.
Gun, I give or sell(at my cost) my bow, every year, my bow is nothing extra cool, fact is, I shoot the ones I don't like the looks of and it didn't make it out the door.
Thread should be named "Wish I was ready for the ASL BUG to bit me" ...James
Mr Berry..... I figured you would have to charge extra for the mojo since you hunt with it :)
I really love the Toelke Super D style Hill bow. Its straight limbed with reflexed ends. It has a little pulse in the hand but certainly not as bad as another Hill style I've shot. He makes his grip smaller and limbs very narrow and light which steps away from the Hill and Hill clones out there.
The original Hill bows are awesome , but will absolutely shake your teeth loose. Some of the current bowyers make some very elegant and fine shooting bows. JD Berry,Toelke, Northern Mist, Leon Stewart just to name a few. Something very intriguing about them just not for me!
QuoteOriginally posted by Steve O:
Hill style and self bows...I always want 'em then I shoot them and realize I do this for enjoyment and they manhandle me. I do not want to spend the time to master them, I'd rather use my limited time to hunt.
X2, AMEN!!!!
Bill
I'll admit, it took a bit of stubborn determination to figure out a Hill bow. Tuning is a little different than I was used to. Low brace height, arrow spine being close to actual bow weight, the lightness of mass, etc. But after I did figure that stuff out it has become difficult to shoot other bows, especially my recurves. If you just "try" an ASL bow odds are it may not take. For many people they're either a feast or famine type bow. But now my recurves feel like guns going off in my hand, locator grips feel like I have no solid grip on the bow, and literally anything else, even mild R/D's seem loud to me. I absolutley get why ASLs arent for everyone, but if you ever do decide to "try" one I suggest a monkish determination at first, after that they seem to consume you. But, this would all be pretty boring if we all liked and shot the same thing! Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
I had a beautiful Hill style with a straight grip that I just couldn't enjoy shooting. I shot it as accurately as any other bow, but:
a. it bit my bow arm BADLY. OK, poor form.
b. it definitely did vibrate badly at the end of the shot. Had a hay rope for a string. A later, similar bow became much more pleasant to shoot with a thinner string.
c. it really stiffened up in a hurry and felt like I was holding much more than the draw weight at anchor.
I read a ton of posts bragging up J D Berry bows and found a used, left hand Morning Star in my weight range on the classifieds.
a. with a minimum of 6 3/4" brace height it does not offend my bow arm at all. I can shoot it with no arm guard
b.no vibration at any point during the shot. My friends have commented that it is REALLY quiet with a FF string. It is certainly the quietest bow I've ever shot. Nothing but the thump of the arrow hitting the target.
c. See "c." above. Totally different feel from my curves and strongly D/R longbows. Not good or bad - just different. Now that I think of it, I want to put it on the scale and plot the draw weight curve, but I will be surprised if it doesn't stiffen a lot faster in the last 2" of draw.
To the original question of this thread, yes, I've shot them and decided almost instantly that they were not for me. I can't afford the elbow surgery, and I can't hit a room from inside it with one. They are no fun whatsoever to shoot.
That is My Dream Bow.....One of these Days!!
QuoteOriginally posted by McDave:
If you like the Widow PL, you won't like the Hill style bow. For me to shoot a Hill style bow, it would require the same somewhat irrational dedication that caused me to want to shoot traditional bows to start with, but taken to a different level. My two shooting buddies both shoot Hill bows fairly often, so I've also tried them fairly often. But for me it's like eating liver: every once in a while I think I might like it, but as soon as I taste it, I know I don't. They're slow, they have hand shock, and they don't shoot where I'm looking. Other than that, they're fine.
2X on this one.... The only Hill style bows i've ever shot that you didn't have to pick your dentures out of the dirt every time you drop the string was a 75# & an 80# draw weight.... But Both those bows had enough tension on the string at brace to minimize the hand shock somewhat....
But most 60# Hill style bows still kick like a mule...Nature of the design bro
I've been through the elbow surgery from one. I'll stick with recurves.
YEP!
I have been shooting Hill style bows for 46 years. Haven't had any elbow or shoulder problems.
I did try a brand name recurve once. Man that thing was twangy, loud and harsh feeling to me. I also don't get the hand shock thing. They aren't for everybody but they do have a huge following. To each his own.
No locator grip l love my hill longbows!
I tried shooting a Hill Longbow before. To me, it's just different with a degree of hand shock. But for me, I like my bows, like I like my women, with curves!! :laughing:
I haven't tried them all but the ones I did didn't agree with me , too much shock.
Years ago I shot the most punishing Hill style longbow of any bow I had ever shot and thought it was the design that was so terrible.
Over the years I searched relentlessly for the bow that was going to take me to "Sherwood".
I think I've owned and shot almost every bow offered on the market at that time and my search wasn't over.
I shot some of them very well and with great ease but nothing was "melding" with my spirit until I convinced myself to try another true American style longbow.
I came across a HH Big5 at a reasonable price and a lifelong love affair began.
My search narrowed considerably.
Now I seek the creme de la creme....... and I think I am close for me.
Having said all that..... it doesn't really matter what "does it" for me as far as you are concerned. What matters is what's gonna "do it" for you.
Good luck and have fun in your quest!
God bless,Mudd
I draw 31+" and for me Hill style bows are a punishment: too slow, too long for hunting (72") , not sweet at all for me on the draw even in 72" length, too much kick and for bows under 60# i can't find a shaft weak enough in 32"+ lenght to fly properly.
Good looking bow though
yes ----- love the history and romance of the longbow but am and probably always will be more accurate and comfortable with recurves.
Howard Hill was an exceptional talent with a longbow but worked very diligently with it as well.
I'm not saying they are bad bows, but I don't like them at all.
Just a diffetent arrow launcher that often requires patience to shoot well. I guess I failed as I do not shoot them after trying one.
I like all bows. Some times I feel like a long bow some times feel like a recurve. What's hand shock?
Dunker, there you are. Was looking at coyote skin quivers on here last night and got to thinking I hadn't seen tradgang's greatest coyote killer in a while. Perhaps I missed some of your traffic. Either way, hope you're well. I'm not sure what hand shock is either, I shoot a JD Berry.
I'll shoot any style bow.
There are crappy builds in every style. Trying one bow from a category is a naive way to make decisions about bow styles.
I've shot plenty of terrible recurves and R/D bows, as well as Hill style ASL's.
I've shot plenty of good ones of each style too. I can say pretty surely that I am not a recurve guy for hunting. Love em for shooting.
Whoops; I just typed in a long answer to another thread by mistake here :D
I'll just reiterate...Hill style--every time I shoot one!
I've only shot a handful of hill style bows but I am not a fan.
Ever shoot a Hill style and say "no thanks"?
Nope.
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff187/GingivitisKahn/black_friday_2010_doe/20101126_ac_09.jpg)
p.s. Hand shock just means you are holding it incorrectly.
I posted to this thread early on, but never answered the question: count me as a no! Love 'em!
I got half way thru this post and I just got to put my two cents in. Hand shook? You have a poorly made not timed long bow. I have only 20longbows and the only one that shocked me was a Robertson stybow but that was with locust core and Osage riser. Depends on what it's built with I think . Yew or bamboo core now on most . NM. Tolke. Miller. Jet. . Shew hill. Ect all are great . Fast . No hand shock .no neck pain ? . Love my long bows.
Gin givitisKahn. Have two HH blanks. One a friend of mine finished and another I did. Both turned out really well. Nice looking bows but lots of hand shock. You say that's because of the way one holds a Hill style bow. What is the right way?
To the contrary. The first time I shot a Hill bow it was the only bow I shot for over 15 years. Loved shooting that bow! A reduction in draw weight due to an arm injury resuted in my eventual return to a recurve.
Go to Howard hill longbowmen. Com. Good stuff.
QuoteOriginally posted by highlow:
Gin givitisKahn. Have two HH blanks. One a friend of mine finished and another I did. Both turned out really well. Nice looking bows but lots of hand shock. You say that's because of the way one holds a Hill style bow. What is the right way?
I grip mine "like you're holding a suitcase" very firmly with a very slightly bent bow arm. If I'm holding it a bit low or a bit light, it starts to get squirrely. They let you know what they like and what they don't.
dickwightman dot com has an article re: Proper Grip of a Hill Bow
Have a look at that.
Nope! I love mine. Like others have stated it's all in how you hold it. This is how Howard Hill described how he held a bow: "I simply hold the bow handle the same as I would the handle of a suitcase. With the bowstring up & the arms hanging down at the sides. Grasp bow handle as on a suitcase, easily, you will note your thumb joint will be directly out from the center of the belly of the bow"
Yes I have actually. A Martin ML-10, what a thump on the shot and awful to draw. At first I thought I must be doing something wrong but nope it's the bow. I did after a while tolerate it but gave it away first chance I had. Now compare it to my Northern Mist retro Classic and it's like comparing a Yugo to a Ferrari. The NM Classic is a peach of a bow to shoot. I wouldn't trade/sell it for anyone's bow or pennies.
I've owned four or five American Semi-longbows, thought I was through with them in favor of r/d longbows that seem faster with less hand shock. But then I bought a JET longbow. Love the way that bow shoots and it rekindled my love for the American Semi-longbow.
Since then, I have a JET on order, bought a James Berry Vixen, and am considering buying a Dave Miller Old Tom.
Jury is still out with them for me. Got my first ASL this sumer. No hand shock, but just not as consistent with it as with my r/d bows. Always enjoy shooting it but just haven't shot it enough to have a lot of confidence. It won't leave though.
Wow, another 1,000 pages or so and this will be as long as the HH fan club postings!
Ulysseys....shooting a Hill style is as much a mindset as it is about performance. I have shot some, but I prefer the recurves. I have found it very difficult to switch from one to the other...jmo
Listen to your own gut. It sounds like you want to try one, not once but a few days or week, before you decide. Look around and see if you can take one on trial.
No one in their right mind would want to shoot an ASL or HH style bow. Their violent buggers and will ruin your dental work. If you've foolishly bought one I will do you a favor and take it off your hands at a bargain price. Send them my way and be rid of them. I'd only do this for a trad ganger.
That's the Tradgang spirit, Cavscout!
I've tried! The mystique of the hill bow is great! I unfortunately can't shoot them.. I for one cant shoot a straight grip, I also have a shorter draw length and the long D bows don't have the "zing" I'm after and personally prefer not to have that hand shock.
But to each there own. You won't know until you try!
I love my Hill/Schulz style natural bows I make and shoot, smooth quiet and I've had plenty of guys shoot them and change there opinions of Hill styles. Most have had bad experiences with Hill styles and they have been shocked how smooth they are.
(http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac248/TmPotter47/t3-7.jpg)
Lots of variables in all types of bows I think :thumbsup:
Tracy
Sounds like to me, there should be a price put on the Bowyers heads, who make those god awful things.(LOL)
Hmmm, think I will make more!!! ..OE
I was told how bad they were.....then got a deal on a Jerry Hill longbow. That was 7-8 years ago, now I have 2 Northern Mists, 3 Hills and a Kimsha. I sold the Jerry hill and that was a mistake.........Nothing like stumping with a Hill style.
I've managed to come into possession of one of those god awful bows that OE is talking about. Dang thang just shoots where you want it to, doesn't complain about how I hold it, will shoot every arrow I've ever had the nerve to put through it and besides that, it laughs at me when I pick up one of those r/d type bows. On top of all that, whoever made this bow, built it left handed. But that's OK, I just string it backwards and it shoots just fine.
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e285/bard9l/IMG_2038_zps999cc0e3.jpg) (http://s41.photobucket.com/user/bard9l/media/IMG_2038_zps999cc0e3.jpg.html)
Ric o Sly, got your Vixen, going out Monday, 46@28-66" give me a call, I shot it,aint got the guts to do that agin!!! Poor me ..OE
You shot an ML-10 and still have all your teeth? :laughing:
Yes...twice, because I had to shoot it a second time to verify that it really was that bad!
OE - I just broke a tooth shootin' one of these bows and had a new crown put on that molar. Now you're gonna send me another.....need to call my dentist and make certain the glue is cured. :saywhat:
Just like some don't seem to notice (or be bothered by, probably more truthful) recoil in rifles, there are some who don't seem to mind the hand shock of traditional Hill style longbows. Nevertheless, I've never shot one by any maker that I would call pleasant to shoot, or that shot well for me, and I've tried quite a few of them. Some guys like to hunt 120lb deer with .338 Win mags; to each his own, but count me out. Many much more enjoyable and more shootable designs out there these days.
QuoteOriginally posted by Ric O'Shay:
I've managed to come into possession of one of those god awful bows that OE is talking about. Dang thang just shoots where you want it to, doesn't complain about how I hold it, will shoot every arrow I've ever had the nerve to put through it and besides that, it laughs at me when I pick up one of those r/d type bows. On top of all that, whoever made this bow, built it left handed. But that's OK, I just string it backwards and it shoots just fine.
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e285/bard9l/IMG_2038_zps999cc0e3.jpg) (http://s41.photobucket.com/user/bard9l/media/IMG_2038_zps999cc0e3.jpg.html)
:bigsmyl: I love mine.
The oral surgeon wanted 4800.00 to remove my wisdom teeth. I did it for nothing with three shots of my friends Hill bow.
I'll let you know if it was worth it after I find out how much it's going to cost to repair my elbow.
Tooner.......you should have learned to hold it properly.......... :cool: Just my thoughts!!
I was holding it correctly ron, that's how I limited it to just my wisdom teeth.
:goldtooth:
Funny I feel nothing in any of mine......maybe I'm holding it wrong. And I have all my teeth..lol!
For me a Hill bow was love at first shot. love those Hill style bows.
The best thing about shooting a buddy's hill bow is handing it back. I just don't like them
I believe that everybody should buy at least two of the ASL bows. Then when you don't like them, you can deeply discount those bad boys and place them up for sale in the classified section. Makes them easier to find and cheaper on those of us that do like them.
:bigsmyl:
Quotes from a friend. "What da you shoot those for? They're junk." After one shot with his arm jammed, his neck jammed and squeezing the rosin out of the riser, "See I was right that hurts like hell." "I ain't carrying that Huntmor thing, it's too heavy." His bow weighed over 6 pounds. "Let's take my jeep, people will think that I am a sissy if they see me in that fancy Subaru of yours."
After watching the Schulz video and shooting a Hill bow with a B50 string, "Okay, not bad but it still has a lot of thump." After fixing his efforts to have more than his puny 68" wing span should draw, 25" and putting a fast flight on the same bow, "Holy crap, what did you do? This thing is amazing." After shooting for two hours, "You got to sell me this bow." My bows are not for sale, I may give it too him next summer. Once again the wisdom of John Schulz held true. He said that if one learns to shoot a longbow properly they will love it, but if they insist on shooting them wrong, they will discard them with disgust.
"For the serious bowhunter, the longbow will bring him to this style or else he will discard it with a curse, and a vow never to touch it again.
The longbow demands the style which goes with it. This style is the most conducive to the hunting of any game - furred or feathered." J.S.
All I got to say is target panic makes any style of bow hard to shoot! :smileystooges:
One conversation with John, he alluded to how some think that they are shooting just like he instructed, but they were not. Also, some can have perfect Hill form, until they get it in their head that they have to hold and aim, then everything falls apart.
Holding and aiming Pavan.. An interesting topic. Read something in Saxton Pope's book that you don't hear much about. During his field tests he found that the longer a longbow was held, the less cast it delivered. Now, that could be because those were self bows, or at least not glass backed, but I wonder if part of the reason snap (or a version of snap) shooting ASLs works so well is because of their tendency to lose load under prolonged strain. Dunno, food for my own thoughts.... and a tad of trying to hijack this heresy of an anti-HH thread. Haha kidding..
I've shot a few that were not entirely comfortable but I own one that's not at all bad with a fast flite string and appropriate arrow. I tend to keep my arm slightly bent when I shoot Hill style bows and this helps as well. I hunt mostly with a recurve but I definitely enjoy spending some time with my Hill bow each year.
I kind of like them, fun to shoot with a good one. I have a Louis Armbruster Zebra Grevy that I really enjoy shooting, I've also had a Wesley Special that was like stringing up a T-post! I just guess it depends on what mood I'm in when I pick one to hunt with.
LD
LD -
How you been?
Danny
Good Danny, How about you? I know that this working crap is really starting to interfere with my personal life!
Take care!
LD
The real good thing with those Hill style bow Is that after release and recovery from the kick, you still have plenty time to look to you arrow flying to the spot...or below the spot if you are a few step further :D
I still have an ache in my left shoulder I attribute to shooting one back in the 70's.
Years ago I ran an archery club that maintained a city indoor archery range. I spent a lot of evenings helping people set up their bows, mostly wheel bows but as a traditional archer I saw a lot of stick bows that people brought to the range and shot most of them.
On my list of the worst bows I ever shot were;
Absolute worst, Ben Pearson "Old Ben" longbow, next worst, Jerry Hill bows followed by standard Hill bows.
I did shoot a Hill Big 5 that wasn't all that bad but never could stand the skinny, tall handle.
I dont care for the ones I've shot. Also made a few selfbows early on,switched to more moden bows and when I picked up my selfbow I didnt care for it like I used to.
To answer the initial question... Yes.... but usually after I begrudge a smile, tell the owner nice bow and walk away thinking he can keep it...
I've owned a couple but just couldn't shoot them well. I'm sure they're fine bows in the right hands, I just don't own the right hands.
They just take a little different style and effort, but once there it is hard to go to anything else.
You guys keep selling those cheap :-)
Yeah I've shot a half dozen or so and hated them all. give me a good recurve all day.
Dave
two2hooking has got it right. Maybe I can trade away my last R/D longbow for another ASL!
The only reason I don't vehimently protest this thread is my hopes that it drives ASL prices into the dirt (sorry bowyers, but I'm itching for a take down ASL for a travel/back up bow).
I have shot selbows and r/d longbows and recurves, that I have said no thanks....
I currently have tow HHA Longbows.
A good feeling bow is one where you hold the bow with a dead straight arm, let your bow shoulder jam up against your head for support, and then shoot with no shock or vibration. Of course some shooting postures can hurt you from the energy of your own muscles at release and draw. I should get one of those cheap shock mobiles just for the times when one of the straight arm recurve or compound guys, that think they know every thing there is know, want to try my bows. My personal bows would not work for that, they have about the same reaction as my one recurve, a Grooves Spitfire. However, I notice that most of the critics refer to feel without any reference to form. Regardless of limb shape all types of bow grips need to be held properly for that particular grip. Healing the grip works fine for longbows, but not always for pistol grips. Everyone measures their shooting by how tight the groups are at standing targets. It seems like those requirement gets transferred to what becomes a requirement to what can be called a hunting shot as well. I have shot deer on the move with recurves, I have shot quarters out of the air with recurves. Of course my recurve form is a modified Hill form, not target form. I still find that hitting quick and moving targets easier with a longbow.
QuoteOriginally posted by Mike Mecredy:
An important thing to remember about the Howard Hill bows or longbows with very little D/R, is they just need the proper components to shoot nice. The string has to be the correct thickness, mass and material, the brace ht. has a very small sweet spot, as does the nock point, the arrow weight:poundage range is very small, the nock tightness on the string has to be perfect, and the arrow spine has to be spot on.
Once you get all that and master the way you grip the bow and your clean release/follow through, you'll have a bow that's very hard to beat and is an absolute joy to shoot. You won't want anything else. Most Hill styled bow shooters I've met may own other bows but they only shoot that one they've taken the time to get perfect. Then the other person they let shoot it, don't like it, because they don't draw the same length (no two people do) and it results in hand shock or something otherwise.
Because of that, the additional efforts it takes to tune one, the Howard hill styled bows get bad reviews.
This!
Built by an experienced, knowledgeable bowyer and set up right for the shooter, they can be a joy to use and shoot.
I hate driving my wife's Corolla when the seat and steering wheel are set for her. Move the seat back and the steering wheel up and it's a fun little car to drive.
I shot hill styles and said yes! I didn't experience any shock problems!
I've now only own three Hill style bows:
one a HHA Tembo 66 in. long,(about 60lbs at 28" draw)
two Northern Mist Sheltons; both 66" long
one is a one piece bow at 54 lbs at 28" draw
the other a two piece take-down at 55lb at 28" draw.
I enjoy the NM Sheltons the most! :D