So do you know how sometimes in life certain types of people use someone else as an excuse for their actions? Well David aka Knawbone is my excuse, my reason for this thread. David was gracious enough to offer his land, camp, and company for a primitive weekend hunt the first weekend in October this fall.
http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=94;t=003296
I've been fortunate enough to spend a little time with him and a great group of guys the past couple years hunting rabbits over the winter.
(http://i.imgur.com/0UcjYny.jpg)
Admittedly I'm drawn to the primitive side of traditional archery but have done very little to quench that thirst... till now. Knowing that I'm going to David's this fall has set me in motion and I have been happily tinkering. I find it really intriguing so I thought some of you might as well. Please remember that most of this is the first time for me, none of it really a complete tutorial but a summary of sorts with hopefully some cool hunting stories at the end. So feel free to correct me, advise me, laugh or lurk along :) I also hope my brothers on this hunt might add in or share their stories from their own preparation and our weekend hunting whitetail deer together. :campfire:
I agree David is a bad influence.
For me while shooting with him, I found he was shooting very well... its solely his fault for making me want to shoot as good as I could on that course :readit: Thats my story and sticking to it
Have a great time and show pictures and tell stories, you are only weeks away.
(http://i.imgur.com/9xTJUjp.jpg)
Over this past winter I read about cutting, drying, and working natural shoot type materials. The idea of going out into the woods and cutting my own arrows was interesting to me. I was able, I believe, to identify a good wet area to harvest red osier dogwood and another that held scattered wild rose... well I'm not positive they were wild rose but they were the biggest thorn bushes I knew of, easily 7- 8 feet tall so I deemed them worthy of a try. Here it is easy to tell last year's (red) growth from the mature brown shifting that we want.
(http://i.imgur.com/zOGjSwE.jpg)
I enjoyed the walks and had only a rough idea what size shoots to cut... so I cut and bundled just under 500! Lol
(http://i.imgur.com/0vDPljv.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/NjxkJ4O.jpg)
I originally planned to wait a year to work the shafts. Beyond just dry I've read the time adds stability to the wood shoots, but I just couldn't help myself when David said I could come visit. 7-8 mo of drying and out of the rafters they came. Not knowing where to begin I guessed, cutting the sometimes 60" sticks down to a naturally tappered, more manageable 36"
(http://i.imgur.com/l4SfjIQ.jpg)
I straightened them over a heat gun, sanded the protruding bumps on a 60 grit belt slander. Did a second heat gun straightening after letting them rest 24hrs, hand sanded down to 220 grit and then took the twelve 36" shafts into the house to see where i was... WOW... way to big and way to stiff and to heavy. I'm eventually looking for a 31" arrow with a self nock and hafted point = 33" for now.... at 36" I was at 1000gr and spined about 200. Being over eager I also had 12 wild rose and 12 bamboo shafts from HD that were all to big and stiff as well...
(http://i.imgur.com/zbkhY48.jpg)
I wish I would have only done 1 test arrow of each... that was silly :) I could have sanded them down to the appearance of a Sherwood shaft to hit my spine and weight but I loved the contrasting look of white heartwood and the dark sometimes reddish outter bark, the cadmium is often pink looking on the shaft and careful sanding can reveal it more along the patches of white wood. I sand the bark just enough to make the shoot acceptably smooth. Later after the initial spine and weighing I often revisit the sanded trying to lighten and weaken the wood to come closer to the performance I want. In the end I want my shoots to look more like they came from the woods than the shop.
(http://i.imgur.com/LehZIoY.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/VQZ8ivN.jpg)
When I sand off all the bark and am still to heavy and stiff I needed a lighter/smaller shoot to start with... so I started over... My second set of 6 dogwood spined 400 and weighed in 600-700gr at 33"... better!
Nice looking shoots and cane! I love to make shoot arrows. We have viburnum which is heavy but not as heavy as the local dogwood. The cane would be lighter probably. All of those will make super tough shafts though. It is a lot of work but I debark mine and work them down with a small plane and a rasp getting them close to 11/32"
I am impressed with your hard work and keen eye.
This morning after my coffee I went out in the garage and started straightening more shoots but I was tired of doing that so I pulled out my deer bones from the 8pt I shoot last fall with my Zipper Lb. I had boiled them and cleaned them up on the outside leaving them to just air dry since last October.
(http://i.imgur.com/yIdtaHI.jpg)
As an added note... later I cut into the larger two bones in this picture and no good! The wall was thin and unusable for the heads I wanted. I was pleased with the smaller two.
I decided to practice on a pet store dog bone first...
(http://i.imgur.com/xXwMEfA.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/K8s0SEC.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/NmlrveV.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/0VTO6Y5.jpg)
that went fine so into the deer bone I went.
(http://i.imgur.com/IFDOLve.jpg)
The deer bone had been oozing marrow like grease or oil and cutting into it there was more. It left me wondering if there was a better way to store them? Idk. Shaping the 2-2.5" long bone pieces was fun on the belt sander. I started with 60grit and then to 150. I did mostly double bevel but experimented with right and left bevel grinds too. I thought it would be easy to match the fetching and possibly gain some performance. In N.Y. my heads need to be an inch wide so I tried to maintain that and did with most pieces. At the end of the day I had 16 heads from two leg bones not done but taken to 150 grit. That was a nice break from the heat gun.
(http://i.imgur.com/R4wUTJR.jpg) (http://imgur.com/R4wUTJR)
Oh man. Love this stuff! Keep it comin....
This is awesome James!
You are going to have to give me back those Silverflames because they are nowhere near primitive!
Great work so far, and i'll keep checking back for more!
Bisch
Oh man!!! What the heck did I start here?? :biglaugh: Very cool stuff Jim, I thought about making some bone points myself since I don't know how to knap very well. Actually Iv' only tried it once, so maybe I could give it another shot. I will be attempting to make some shoot arrows from some shoots I cut a couple of years ago. The whole process for primitive arrows is a new venture for me also. Now I just need to find the time to do all this stuff. I will.......somehow!!! I'm really glad to see your interest in primitive archery hunting. I think we are going to have a lot of fun on this hunt. The deer numbers are looking really good this year with all the logging going on. Thanks for your enthusiasm Jim.......funny how things work out isn't it?
Great post thank you!
James, carry a 3/8" open end wrench and use it as a gauge for cutting shoot shafting. You may still have to reduce them some after you straighten them. I use a small thumb plane like Duncan said.
When dealing with spine you can reduce the actual spine by 10# because of the natural taper. For anything over 28" you can reduce the spine by 5# per inch.
so... a 33" shoot arrow that actually spines 200# will shoot like a 165# spined arrow. :)
I generally only check spine on cane or hardwood shoot shafts to find the still side of the shaft which goes against the bow.
Those shoots should make good arrows but longer seasoning time will yield a better, more stable arrow.
best bet would be to cut them open after your first boil and boil or simmer again with dawn dish soap to get the grease out I think. works with skulls.
I bet your shop smelled just lovely working with all that bone on the band saw and sander :o
Thanks guys!
Bisch I've probably taken care of them a little to good, ha
Thanks Pat and please check back with us.
Bobby I like that idea, will try it this year, and ya I don't think I've discovered a new scent for Yankee candle in the shop yesterday. Lol
David we are going to have fun buddy.
:campfire:
Dem bones dem dry bones. I have read about ancients using bones for spears and broadheads, I bet they did not have the nice shop tools that you do. Do they get tempered somehow or are they hard enough as is to come to a good edge?
Awesome post .
awesome work
Jim, I have back sinew for hafting if you need some. I need to start sizing and straightening some shafts myself. Excellent thread Jim.....thanks for sharing the venture. :campfire:
Cool stuff. This is something I've always wanted to do. I've got a bunch of elk and deer sinew but that's about it. I have no idea what to look for in east tx! I'll be following this thread to the end! Thx for starting this up!!
Pavan I've not read anything about tempering bone points, that doesn't mean it's not done but I don't know of it. It's my first time working with bone in any capacity but holding the heads in my hands I have no doubt a well placed shot will be a clean kill. The Bone points I made are 40-60gr that sounds light but the dogwood and rose shafts are 600-700 grains unfinished at 33" With a mindful, well crafted, smooth transition from point to shaft and an arrow that is hitting its target straight on... I think we are going deep!
David I actually pounded out some deer tendons and back strap sinue last year camping/sitting by the fire with my dad at the sawmill shoot. So I have a little, thanks buddy. Did you tell me you were making a new bow?
(http://i.imgur.com/RVhzzXI.jpg)
Before and after...
(http://i.imgur.com/oWCaHcV.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/eOMbDzy.jpg)
I worked on more shafts today, trying to hit a lighter spine with the redosier... heat gun and belt sander... shafts resting till the morning and then ill see where they are at. I'm getting a better sense of what I need looks like after the trial and error. Sounds silly but new skills are earned I guess.
(http://i.imgur.com/PGDAGo4.jpg)
I also roughed out a few self knocks today on rose shafts. I found the stiff side of the shaft and cut the nock so that side is along the bow. The nocks are not finish sanded or done, I left them a little tight for now but you can get the idea. I do like to make the throat a little enlarged and finish sand the end so it will just stay on yet release easy. I have done this before on Douglas fir shafts and it leaves me rather impressed how hard the wood in these shoot shafts is when you try to shape them with a file. I didn't expect that I guess.
(http://i.imgur.com/hxc2xw1.jpg)
I love this little suction vise for doing work like this. It has rubber jaws that hold well without marking the shafts.
(http://i.imgur.com/OABk0vm.jpg)
The simple tools I use. A double blade hack saw, a few small files, sand paper. Best tip... go slow, it's wood, hard to put it back once removed :)
This is real cool. Your doing great.
And I thought me hunting with my stone point was cool. Jim you are way cool.
Jim I was making a new hickory bow, but it had a flaw in the lower fad. The bow would have taken too much set at a reasonable hunting poundage, so I finished it for my step daughter. 35 lbs is about right for her.....she loves it. It has about 3/4in. back set and shoots pretty good. I don't think I'll have time now to attempt another bow before the hunt.My Osage self bow shoots nice at about 48 lbs @ 26 but it would be nice to hunt with a bow I made myself.
I like how the blade shapes can be made so exact with bone. My flint and obsidian heads were all just a tad different from each other.
(http://i.imgur.com/phht1BQ.jpg)
I now have 24 natural shoots sitting on the table, 9 heavier than I want, the rest receiving self knocks. On one of the heavier shoots I experimented with lightening groves or flutes related to mass, weight and spine reduction but that's another post. I have learned a lot in shoot selection and am keeping notes in reduction of spine and weight so I might better know what to expect from different materials in future projects. To say the least I'm having fun.
I took a break from the sticks this afternoon and went looking for pine trees that have had their lower limbs cut off to collect pine sap. I want to make a pine pitch glue to hold my hunting points on the shoots I'm making. I've never done it but was excited to try.
(http://i.imgur.com/3jddyVI.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/RrnNbWj.jpg)
The sap I found was soft and more recent or fresh from the tree so I made a container. In the top you burn some pine sap that is inevitably contaminated with bark and debris, oils. As the undesirable stuff burns on the top and turns to a black ash the good nectar leaks down through the holes into the lower compartment.
(http://i.imgur.com/lh98JYd.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/zrzWuUA.jpg)
I gathered my supplies and was so eager to start I lit the sap up on the back cement porch. Lol no good, it looked like I was trying to burn the house down.
(http://i.imgur.com/RkeJOxk.jpg)
It was a little fire but Lots of black smoke everywhere. I let it burn out and will continue at camp this weekend. I am eager to continue burning sap and then finish a batch of glue.
(http://i.imgur.com/qyJPd48.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/H6m6uqG.jpg) (http://imgur.com/H6m6uqG)
(http://i.imgur.com/GD6h8nx.jpg)
:campfire:
Very kool James, I have the same thought in mind about the pitch glue. I have an mag. article on the subject somewhere. Iv' been practicing my flint knapping on some bottle bottoms. I'm getting there ( I think ? :banghead: ) I'm determined to make my own heads. I need to collect some more Goose feathers from our local Canadians. I finished one arrow shaft complete with wild berry stained cresting. ( minus the BH ) Iv' been taking pictures if you want to see them when I get done!
I would love to see your arrow! I'm pretty sure I have extra goose feathers if you need them. Just let me know david. What kind of wild berry did you use for stain? :campfire:
I'm not even fit to hunt with you guys anymore ;)
Very cool posting :thumbsup:
I used wild raspberry and black berries for the stain/ paint. Looks very authentic Native American.Here, I'll show you some (http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/161_zps624c2ab1.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/161_zps624c2ab1.jpg.html) pictur (http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/160_zpsef0d4e2c.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/160_zpsef0d4e2c.jpg.html) es. (http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/158_zps887782ea.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/158_zps887782ea.jpg.html)
I simply crushed the berries and applied the juice. The upper and lower cresting are raspberry and the center one is blackberry. I stained the shoot shaft with rotting leaves. The tannic acid stains the shaft a light to medium brown.
You guys are going for it........neat stuff! :notworthy: :notworthy:
Looks great David! I'm going to Hawkeye bow shoot this weekend. In the past I've seen them building osage bows there. I would love to build a bow or at least get some hands on scraping and learn a little about getting a stave to bend. 3 Days is short but we will see.
Very Cool!
Your stuff is really coming along nicely guys.
In the past days I've spent some time refining 24 shafts to become closer in spine and weight. It's rather interesting and time consuming ha. I bought a little thumb plane and a very cheap wood carving v blade chisel. The basic idea is simple. Wood removed from the ends of the shaft effects weight more than spine, wood removed from the middle of a shaft effects spine more than weight. Having a realistic expectation of possible outcomes is a result of experience. I've taken good notes of some stubborn shafts as they progressed in spine and weight toward quiver material.
(http://i.imgur.com/r5TuPaS.jpg)
The plane I found especially useful in weight reduction on the larger end of the natural tapered dogwood. Placing the shaft in a board with a V grove gave great control and quick easy shaft rotation as you work it down in size
(http://i.imgur.com/8LxyDjz.jpg)
The V hand chisel I used to make "lightening groves" in dogwood shafts. I read these groves were used by some Indians... some say for possibly only aesthetics, some say to aid in straight drying, hard to know. I used the idea to reduce stock mid shaft and to weaken spine. I found it took a deep grove most would more likely call a flute to accomplish a significant change. The plane would have worked better but also removed all the bark that I like, and besides the power of lightening has to be strong medicine on deer?!
(http://i.imgur.com/Fw6ZlWA.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ah0Z5Nx.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/UD13GXO.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/01UPmRB.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/kxusaDz.jpg)
While I finished burning off the rest of my sap in a nice little shady spot in the woods I was looking around a little. I had the idea to make a quiver for my new arrows. So I started collecting some natural materials to experiment with.
(http://i.imgur.com/FeuSrKO.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/aQ6FVmD.jpg)
This was my first try at this. Next time ill use some smaller materials that will bend to my will more easily...
(http://i.imgur.com/0aCLxWM.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/DqpanSl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/S8LqR7V.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/tWCAhe2.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/yvCnEgi.jpg)
Great stuff. Just don't post any pics of you in a loin cloth. :D :D
Looks like you've been busy Jim. The quiver is looking good. What is the average diameter of your arrow shafts? I still have only completed one shaft, three to go. I'll get back on completing my primitive equipment after this weekend.Have you received your obsidian yet? :campfire:
Sure wish I had the time to try all of this. It looks really fun and gratifying. Great job! Thanks for the post, and good luck this season.
Ha ha ok Doug... no loin cloth.
David I've worked the shafts in different ways to get a more common weight and spine. I thing the bamboo will.have to wait, I love it but the redosier has been harder for me and therefore captivated me. I want to hunt with it. Putting a ruler to it to give you an answer I would say... 5/16 to 7/16... they carry through with the taper and my working on them. The obsidian came in. They are big pieces, almost 6" mostly. I have not played with it yet, ill let you know. I'm off tomorrow so I might go to Lechworth for the knapin...
I spent the early morning collecting smaller materials to try my second attempt at a quiver and then the rest of the day working on it and finishing the first one. I think if I did a third I could get exactly what I want but there are to many other things to do. I learned a lot though.
(http://i.imgur.com/DHMPMQC.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/PUsfbrM.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/anE4Y3R.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/pe6krxg.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/qftWHXN.jpg)
I still have to make a strap and put some fake fur in the bottom and Top edge to quiet the arrows. I hope to trap a critter in its prime this year and try to brain tan it to replace the fake fur... we will see. My organic bees wax came in with the obsidian so now I'm ready to try and make the pine pitch glue :bigsmyl:
Jim and David you guys should go Letchworth Park this weekend for the stone tool show,lots of info there.
More cool stuff Jim. I'm going to Oxford to camp and shoot lots of 3d critters this weekend. I don't think I will make it to letchworth Sunday.That obsidian sounds perfect Jim. I'll have to order some. I think I can knapp well enough to make some heads. We shall see :dunno:
Been making some progress and trying new things. (http://i.imgur.com/i7u4Atg.jpg)
I experimented with beets for a natural stain on the bone tips with mixed feelings.
I took all the heads from 150 grit to 220 then 400. I was going further but to be honest was satisfied there.
(http://i.imgur.com/bvYXfis.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Z4s6SXP.jpg)
This keeps getting better. Will be watching
Looking at all my shafts I decided on a target weight of 700 grains knowing ill end slightly higher before I'm done. I matched specific bone hunting points to specific shafts to get close to 700 but That is still without the finish, feathers, sinue,etc.
I couldn't bring myself to glue on steel field points after all I've done so I went out to the shop and started to work on it. I came up with three designs to try, the third I was rather pleased with and would happily use again next time. All still need to be shot and actually tested in the field.
First try... (http://i.imgur.com/fA9YyS0.jpg)
All will get some sinew reinforcement...
(http://i.imgur.com/bNbOIOI.jpg)
2nd thought was a nail in the center
(http://i.imgur.com/DDpuhlu.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/nYwoBUk.jpg)
Third try was my favorite
(http://i.imgur.com/7XDx01l.jpg)
All three seemed to glued up good. (http://i.imgur.com/TG7AFgb.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/gFu2RgM.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/BSAqJBK.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/D8KzeM4.jpg)
After 24hrs of drying it was time to sand down to 700 grains, I was pleased they all made it nicely.
(http://i.imgur.com/DCcEHBR.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/6D2vZge.jpg)
Each shaft is very much an individual with a well documented history of spine and weight reduction. It's interesting to me and I didn't want to loose the ability to track their progress so I used a small wood burner to tattoo the number inside the self knock
(http://i.imgur.com/EEUJ5kW.jpg)
This also identifies the stiff side of the arrow to be put against the bow when shooting.
The first coat of finish went on 14 shafts this morning... lots left to do but I'm having fun!
(http://i.imgur.com/hLs5ELX.jpg)
Holy smokes. Im thinking Ishi would ask you for advice. Really cool, imaginative stuff.
I figure four or five shafts should be enough for deer season.........How many deer you plan on killing Jim? LOL Your nocks look great and the shafts look awesome buddy. Good work on those nice points too. I guess I'll have to step it up a notch,so my prim. equipment doesn't look sub par.HA HA I managed to whittle out one more shaft. Two more to go. I made a brass point for the first arrow I made and shot it to see how length, spine and tip weight would work out. I left the arrow weight FOC quite a bit and it shot good at 30 in. long with the additional 70 grns up front. I'll be posting that new BH design when I get it done. Excellent work Jim! :thumbsup: :campfire:
Ha ha... well NYS has not mailed me one tag yet. I have a lifetime licence and I thought it normally found it's way to me by now.
Do you have a picture of that brass point David? I would love to see it!
I've been working with that obsidian... yikes that is humbling. When I hit a platform and a full flake follows the ridge I planned I get a little excited.. (http://i.imgur.com/jyi7NIu.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/1wAmuep.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/jdBdEGN.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/nMzA62y.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/RIj18aH.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/0TQMcC6.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/py2ktOO.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/AbvwoZk.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ta5eQDE.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/EFuVA3m.jpg)
Hey that's really good for a novice buddy.......your a natural naturalistist. I hope to do as well when I get my obsession.( I mean obsidian) :bigsmyl: :shaka:
That stuff is looking Great!
Holy cow.........
You are doing an excellent job making up your hunting gear. Well done!!! :saywhat:
Thanks Charlie & Ron... Pat coming from you that means a lot Sir, Thanks!
I've spent the last two days breaking obsidian rocks and managed to learn a little along the way but I still struggle with thinning my pieces properly. I managed 6 points. The last 3 I was able to keep a NYS legal 1" wide while hitting a specific weight requirement for a specific shaft. I don't want to get to redundant so ill show you one more head for now...
This one came from a bottle of port wine my brother Kenny gave me for Christmas one year. The bottle was a nice deep green so I broke out the bottom using a nail and started working on it. The bottom of the bottle was a little concave so it was challenging to work the glass back flat and keep the edges symmetrical and even.
(http://i.imgur.com/4ESjccQ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/4VykCcB.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/AkvKxEj.jpg)
I kept pecking away at it until it was down to 108 grains and looking in my notebook that made it a perfect weight for lucky shaft number 13! Lol this was a particularly stubborn piece of redosier with lightening groves that will carry a sentimental green tip for a total wt of 700 grains...
I hit the shafts with steel wool and applied a seckond clear coat early this morning. You know how when you spend a lot of time on a piece of wood for anything and then you hit it with a clear coat and you just stare at it...All the grains and knots and textures come to life... WOW! I love each and every arrow. For all the time and effort shaft 13 will only be shot through the air once... I plan to make it a memorable flight!
:campfire:
Again.......Holy Cow!!! That Green head is beautiful!!!
Jim, If it's any consolation, my woods are loaded with deer this year. :readit: I see deer every time I go on the hill. I'll be working on the Tee Pee all weekend. My brother and I picked rocks up on the hill tonight. I should have enough to finish the floor. Saw three deer and tracks everywhere. Lots of tree tops down from the logging, so making ground blinds down wind of all that food will be easy peasy! Looks like acorns will be plentiful also. :campfire:
Sounds great David!
Yesterday I spend a significant amount of time working on my pitch glue with no success. I do like my $5 set up from the dollar store though...
(http://i.imgur.com/ATuaCkN.jpg)
It's a very cheap charcoal grill. I placed a 3 wick candle under it to provide variable heat output but only required one wick. The legs slide through the black pan and allow easy grill grate distance adjustment away from the candle. It worked great... just not my recipe... so far.
Taking notes as I went I planned to use equal parts of reduced/ cooked pine pitch, bees wax, and fine ground oak charcoal, 1/3 each, measured amounts on a grain scale.
(http://i.imgur.com/GnM7bGu.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/TrfRhrH.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/0aAeVSa.jpg)
I melted the pitch down easily...
(http://i.imgur.com/i4sMaPY.jpg)
Added an equal amount of bees wax with no problems.
(http://i.imgur.com/sd9cT5o.jpg)
When the wax was mixed in nicely I started mixing in the charcoal slowly... long before I was to an equal grain amount of coal in the soup can my mix started looking way to gritty and clumsy so I stopped adding and took it off the flame after it was mixed as well as possible. This was the result...
(http://i.imgur.com/L47Hz9f.jpg)
To my inexperienced eye it was obvious this needed more pitch so I started adding and adding and adding a measured 25-30 gr at a time... I cooked the mix adding 8Xs. My final mix concentration was 366gr pitch, 128 wax, 80gr Coal, way off from 1/3 each! At that point it had not been gritty looking for some time but was not hard either, even after 30" it remained soft like wet puddy.
(http://i.imgur.com/56bpet7.jpg)
Frustrated I gave it a break and moved on to other things...
I pulled out some nice primaries from a spring gobbler I killed two years ago. They are beautiful, over 14" of feather on the best quills. I started stripping some...
(http://i.imgur.com/JzBP3DQ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/nsUliJn.jpg)
I love the look off great big feathers, larger then you need, on primitive arrows but I also wanted plenty of room at the nock and was working with a 6" brace height so I went with 5" feathers that I will trim down at some point.
What an awesome and inspiring thread :notworthy: Thanks for posting and updating us!!
Last year camping at the sawmill shoot in Pa with my Dad I pounded out a good amount of sinew between two rocks as we sat beside the camp fire, kinda cool! Last fall I harvested it from my deer with even more care to get longer lengths off the back straps and leg tendons. Looking at it I was hesitant to use it, I never have... but I have to say it could not have gone better in the end.
(http://i.imgur.com/rW4Vzvb.jpg)
I picked out some longer lenghts did a trial dry wrap and then wanting the full experience I put a long piece in my mouth and started rolling it around. I have to say... really not a bad flavor! There was no stopping me from there lol.
Thanks Bud :)
I have to say that once nicely wet and pliable the tendons went on the shaft great. They lay down or flatten out more than I first thought covering more area than a dry wrap suggested. I did learn quickly that it is easy and nice to end with a thin thread of sinew to wrap and blend in, so I cut it that way while dry. I've read that the tendon and saliva make a natural glue or at least adhesion and it did perfectly! Never unwrapped once, I was surprised.
(http://i.imgur.com/uB7d2vA.jpg)
Wet It looks kinda clear, dries more white.
(http://i.imgur.com/sHFkQFU.jpg)
Both feather ends and knock reinforcement...
(http://i.imgur.com/OagdE1V.jpg)
This will be a real test... idk how well it will hold up.
Update- held up awesome! Glue joint and sinew never failed, shot through grass and dirt never failed, bone cracked when hit rock, still in use. It's hard to out perform soft steel but bone and wood will make a great practice point, just stay out of the rocks!
(http://i.imgur.com/37kmoIL.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Rq9fNbV.jpg)
It dries rather quickly I thought and shrinks tight by morning with nothing unwrapped... (http://i.imgur.com/w9k0R2e.jpg)
I will water proof the wraps with my trusty tight bond 3 till I can figure out that darn pitch...
Thanks for looking guys
(http://i.imgur.com/FowOgTg.jpg)
I never measure the components for pitch glue but start by melting hard brittle pitch then add the beeswax to make the brittle pitch less brittle. If you use sticky pitch to start with the final glue will be stick and collect debris. I usually do this over a few heating and cooling sessions until I can push my fingernail into the cooled pitch. Once at this stage I add enough charcoal(or other aggregate) as a filler to give the pitch more body.
I'm loving your build along, James. Well done and very easy to follow.
I use homemade pitch varnish to seal sinew wraps on arrows. It is a simple process of dissolving hard, brittle pitch in denatured alcohol. Once strained I keep it in an air tight jar. I also use a water color brush to add the pitch varnish to the sinew. If you use hard brittle pitch your sealer will be hard and not sticky at all.
Great stuff! I just saw this thread. I love home made gear. Best of luck this season
Ha... YES!!!!!! (http://i.imgur.com/WmauOct.jpg)
:bigsmyl: thanks Pat, I think I was just kind of going to fast, not watching each step and throwing everything in the bucket. You know when there is enough wax because of how the pitch cools. Sounds like a vague answer but if you hover over that little half can stirring fast and staring with snake eyed concentration, sniffing those sweet black fumes long enough you find what you seek!
Thanks Glen... having fun!
Hey Jim, thought I'd add a few pics of the re-vamped Tee Pee ( I call it a T-Wam ) this is where we will be hunting from.
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/re-vampedT-wam020_zps66a56d70.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/re-vampedT-wam020_zps66a56d70.jpg.html)
My brother Daril helping me get it done. We have it about half re-covered at this point. You can see the old felt vs. the new synthetic underlayment.
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/re-vampedT-wam001_zps540349dc.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/re-vampedT-wam001_zps540349dc.jpg.html)
Side view, sorry about the sun.
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/4cd2586a-0c79-4fb4-858d-636a14575a4c_zps1076202b.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/4cd2586a-0c79-4fb4-858d-636a14575a4c_zps1076202b.jpg.html)
Hard to capture enough light with this little camera, but the interior walls are now covered and look much more like an authentic TP
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/re-vampedT-wam010_zps90debbef.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/re-vampedT-wam010_zps90debbef.jpg.html)
Looking up to the top. I used Cats Paw underlayment for the peak and interior walls. Brightens it up a bit!
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/re-vampedT-wam011_zps2075e3f1.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/re-vampedT-wam011_zps2075e3f1.jpg.html)
Yep that's me up to the peak. We had to lash two ladders together to reach. About 25 ft. up.
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/re-vampedT-wam004_zps726b0d01.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/re-vampedT-wam004_zps726b0d01.jpg.html)
The rocks we picked the day before. This should be enough to finish the primitive stone floor.
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/re-vampedT-wam017_zpsb5511337.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/re-vampedT-wam017_zpsb5511337.jpg.html)
This camp should be in great shape for our hunt!
This hunt is already becoming epic. :thumbsup:
Wow David!!!! I wish I was there with you guys. I love good honest outdoor work. That's a lot of rock buddy, you guys did a lot of work. Thanks for putting up the pictures it's fun to see what's going on.
:campfire:
So since I was able to get a batch of the pine pitch glue to workout I had to test it with a 2nd batch just to make sure it wasn't luck and it went real easy when I changed how I thought a little.
(http://i.imgur.com/52EMbB4.jpg)
And I NOW totally understand why everyone said they don't measure but for me as with cooking... I like to start with a proven and repeatable recipe then after some success experiment and shoot from the hip. Once i experienced watching the pitch do the right thing I get it. For the brothers that think like me ill post my measured to the grain receipt here later...
My grain scale measured portion amounts for the 2nd batch that worked out the first time is as follows... SAP-160gr (this was sticky sap cooked down to brittle pure, debris free product), BEESWAX-80gr, OAK CHARCOAL-40gr. Worked out the first try.
Also notable is a rookie mistake I made. I ground up my oak charcoal in a cup with the flat end of a stick thinking that's good enough but it left little pieces of tiny coal... I didn't care till I tried to accomplish a super great fit with a bone head and the little lumps made a poor fit. I will make sure it is pulverized to complete dust next time!
With my glue ready to use I was excited to custom fit each specific head to each designated shaft. I tried to measure and cut as precisely as possible.
(http://i.imgur.com/xXfsi3h.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/IEcFmv1.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/fucgsiz.jpg)
After the initial cut I made a few widening passes but then it was hand sanding. After the sweat running down me for way to long sanding and sanding I was less afraid to go a little wider with the ban saw next time.
(http://i.imgur.com/V2ckFxF.jpg)
Hand sanding was as simple as working larger tools in till you get the head to fit with a little room for pitch...
(http://i.imgur.com/4GIkzHd.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/QdSrYMs.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/h8r4EOE.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/PZmzjHL.jpg)
From what I have read looking at that last picture I didn't need to have the shaft come so far up the head but all I could think was the bone cracking hitting a rib. This simply seems stronger, I wanted it strong but looking at it I thought the taper could be improved to aid in increased ease of penetration... so I went back to the 150 grit disc sander and smoothed it out more...
Before...
(http://i.imgur.com/0iOHJh4.jpg)
After more tapering... (http://i.imgur.com/ARNG8vx.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/BPB6BDb.jpg)
I felt like this was a comfortable compromise. After the tips were fitting nicely and seated to the base of the notch I marked where I wanted the notches on the head with a fine permanent marker. I was particular about the inside of the notch being smooth and at the exact side of each shaft. My tendency is to want to load on the sinew and make it stronger but the big lump this made looked like a barrier to penetration so off it came and I did a simple, single figure 8 and then a single side by side layer on the shaft to reinforce it...
I like the way you support the bone point in the taper. That should add a lot of stability to the head helping with the penetration.
Glue up with the pitch glue on the first head was a little messy but my technique was better with the next ones.
(http://i.imgur.com/e8JNeQA.jpg)
I have to say too this primitive glue takes some time to make but is a surprising pleasure to work with. It warms/softens easily over a small candle. Once liquid will run in a crack nicely, is not hard to remove from where u don't want it, can simply stay on the end of a stick forever! Once the glue was dry I was curious how strong it was alone. I have to say that I'm confident the head would be strong enough with only the pitch glue... I was impressed much more than I expected to be!
(http://i.imgur.com/IUjchnD.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/pe1mzb6.jpg)
The glue lines will get cleaned up some yet, ran out of time, life interrupts!
Thanks for your thoughts Pat. How far down your shafts do you bring the sinew from the heads? I measured and I'm varying 1/2" to almost 1" simply depending on the length of material I happen to chew. Does it not matter or is there a standard you like? I'm a little paranoid, I feel like everything is a compromise between strength and weight and penetration...
Probably not a new Idea, but I decided to make a BH out of the crotch of a deer antler, and then imbed the edges with something sharp! Still a little follow up work to do blending the edges but thought I'd share the build.
I started by milling the antler down to shape at work today and then finished sanding and shaping at home.
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/GEDC2287_zps840385a1.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/GEDC2287_zps840385a1.jpg.html)
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/GEDC2293_zps25bc49c7.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/GEDC2293_zps25bc49c7.jpg.html)
After checking the overall shape of the head, I began cutting a grove down the tip and both edges. The grove is about 3/32 in. wide and 1/8 in. deep.
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/GEDC2290_zps044d939d.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/GEDC2290_zps044d939d.jpg.html)
Being satisfied with grove I then began filling the grove with Titebond III and then force dried it enough to start imbedding the obsidian flakes.
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/GEDC2302_zps5ba8f37c.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/GEDC2302_zps5ba8f37c.jpg.html)
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/GEDC2303_zps80482c2f.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/GEDC2303_zps80482c2f.jpg.html) (http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/GEDC2304_zps883068da.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/GEDC2304_zps883068da.jpg.html) (http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/GEDC2306_zps12ce6e7a.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/GEDC2306_zps12ce6e7a.jpg.html)
I mounted the head to the shoot shaft with deer back sinew for ease of handling, but a small vise would work. Once the glue completely cures, I will finish transitioning between antler and flakes. The head is about 1 3/4 in. long by 1 1/2 in. wide. It weighs 104 grn. The obsidian flakes are extremely sharp and I have no reservations about it's effectiveness. I think it will perform very well provided I don't hit heavy bone.
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24%20%5Burl=http://http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/GEDC2306_zps12ce6e7a.jpg.html%5D%20%5Bimg%5Dhttp://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/GEDC2306_zps12ce6e7a.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/GEDC2309_zpsd0984c64.jpg.html) /GEDC2309_zpsd0984c64.jpg[/IMG][/url]
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/GEDC2309_zpsd0984c64.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/GEDC2309_zpsd0984c64.jpg.html)
Finished weight of the arrow should hit 560 grn. :campfire:
This is one of the greatest posts I have had the pleasure to follow! One day I will take the dive as you have and make a complete primitive set up. This build along is quite inspiring in the least! Thank you very much for taking the time to post it.
David, I like to go about an inch. It might be overkill but better safe than sorry. You can use 2 strands of sinew, applying one after the other to get a full inch of wrap behind the point.
James Parker made a antler point a few years ago with a tip. He cut 5 grooves from tip to the back end, around the antler point and inserted 5 micro blade, kind of like the old Satellite points. James shot a doe through the shoulder blade, recovered the deer and only one micro blade came out of the head.
That is a cool idea with the bone and obsidian. Should work fine, especially through the boiler room.
Thanks Taylor, ok Pat, ill extend those wraps to a full inch, thanks!
This is all exciting for me. This venture into the primitive side of traditional archery is bringing back many feelings I had letting go of my compound bow. Last year was my third traditional hunting season and I was very confident with my carbon fiber/foam R/D long bow shooting my Beaman MFX Classic with the hit inserts... I LOVE that bow!!! I love that setup! However I look at my Raptor 64" 60# @ 27" sinew backed yew heart & sapwood and I'm drawn to it... I want to make one! It's a beautiful piece of wood with no handle and no arrow rest, a string that I twisted into creation. Sitting on the couch in early September It's difficult to imagine leaving the Zipper home as I go on a hunt until I look at the arrows I built... it should prove to be a very interesting year and I can't wait to add the hunts to this thread. I take off all the weeks I can beg or steal 6-8, hunt hard, then tell all the truth I can bare to admit here. Lol
:deadhorse:
Thanks for your willingness to always share your knowledge Pat. I shall extend the wrap to one inch. I think the head will work just fine once the head is finished. I like it so much, I don;t know which I prefer more, killing a deer with it or keeping it as a display piece. If I hunt with it I would keep the range under 15 yrd due to it's possible planing.If I make more in the future I will make them a little narrower I think. On the other hand, it may fly great. I guessed on the length, but I measured it today and it's 2 3/8" x 1 1/2 "
Silent Sniper, Hopefully the best is yet to come....glad your enjoying it! :archer: Thanks for the nice comment too!
David it's certainly up to you but if I had a vote I would go for use it and then display it! Ill help you look for it brother!
:bigsmyl:
Jim, I just might do that. After all, isn;t that why we are having this thread? I can always make another one. :knothead: :campfire:
SIMPLY FANTASTIC!!! :clapper:
Nathan
Just plain cool!
Thanks Guy's, this is a lot of fun.Hope I can get everything done for the hunt. :scared:
Well I finally finished my first arrow. Just a few pics to show it off. I transitioned the bone antler to the obsidian flakes and raped the shaft back a full one inch as suggested by Pat B. The feathers are Canadian goose sent to me by my cohort and friend Jim Class.(Sockersblur) Thanks again Jim.
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/GEDC0006_zps4147b684.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/GEDC0006_zps4147b684.jpg.html)
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/GEDC0008_zpsff0d3644.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/GEDC0008_zpsff0d3644.jpg.html)
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/GEDC0013_zps7e0013d4.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/GEDC0013_zps7e0013d4.jpg.html)
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/GEDC0004_zps385eb4ff.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/GEDC0004_zps385eb4ff.jpg.html)
Arrow specs. are 30" long and 578 grn. Not sure what the shaft wood is, but the arrow is concentric within 1/16th of an inch. Now if I can get the chance,just maybe I can kill a deer with it. :pray:
Ha ha... I love it David!!! I think the arrow is beautiful, the black feathers match the black obsidian flakes. Really cool!!!
Jim and David just amazing what you guys are doing for our hunt , which by the way is comming up on us very soon.
Just got a funny tingle in my bones this morning and I'm going to try and make a new bow for the hunt. Don't know if I'll have enough time, but we will see. Getting my gear together, can't wait.
Take pictures Gerald :)
Gerald, good for you bro. Hop in the waters warm. Pics,pics,pics. :smileystooges:
AWESOME thread. really really great reading!
L.R.
Nothing to new to report, fitting more hunting points to shafts in past days...
(http://i.imgur.com/cUfRSUa.jpg)
Getting better with the pitch glue lines...
(http://i.imgur.com/9OFU6uW.jpg)
I made up a ton of pith, and have a pound or two in the fridge and more to process. You're gonna make me fit bone to my carbons yet. I'll post pictures when I start.
Hi Edward, thanks for looking. What is pith?
pitch* I think is what he meant- its just missing the "c".
L.R.
Yup. Stupid autocorrect. I've got a ton of pitch, from unprocessed rosin to melted down into cakes to made into some approximation of PPG. I picked up some bone last night to tip my carbons with, we'll see how it goes. I've got some ideas about points I'm working through, but hunting with bone has always been a goal of mine, so I'm gonna do it.
halfseminole, you don't need to keep the pitch in the frig. If it is the least bit soft keeping it out in the open will allow the volatile oils to evaporate making it hard and IMO hard pitch is what you want for glue and varnish.
The house doesn't have AC and I was afraid of it melting to things. As the weather cools down it'll move out to let the terpenes evaporate. I cook mine for a while to drive them off as well.
Halfseminole out of curiosity do you have a recipe in mind for your ppg? What ingredients? There are so many variations from my reading. Post some pictures when u can, good luck!
I cook it too but on our wood stove. It will be a while before I heat that thing up. :D
QuoteOriginally posted by Knawbone:
I transitioned the bone antler to the obsidian flakes and Raped the shaft back a full one inch as suggested by Pat B.
Careful David with Pat's advice Raping an arrow sounds dangerous and bloody :laughing:
Forgive me I couldn't help it.
Your set up looks AWESOME!
O my! :scared:
:biglaugh: Thanks Charlie, actually it wasn't too bad of an experience! You should try it some time! :eek:
Super job, this is a great post to follow.
Shaft # 11 of 14...
With only 3 more shafts to finish before hunting begins the task has since taken on a different feel. Almost to enjoy what I've learned and savor the work that is left I'm now doing each shaft individually to its completion. Unlike my new dozen brightly Fletched MFXs leaning against the wall natural redosier and wild rose shafts are each individuals. The organic material decides the thickness for the spine, regardless of what you had in mind starting you just don't know until you start scraping, sanding and checking the spine where it will end.
If you remember I wanted bark on all my shafts so they looked like they were, tamed wild sticks. This particular shaft was unusually stubborn. It was sanded, scraped, fluted, planned and sanded so much more that the groves I gouged into it disappeared to dust on the table. It stayed to stiff and to heavy so I kept setting it to the side and I would notice it days later and be in the mood to abuse it more till one day it gave in and hit a 450 spine at 620 grains. I was almost shocked.
It was mostly out of my stubbornness and curiosity that the shaft made the use pile but all the work done to it had more than removed all the bark, I went well into the wood to weaken and lighten it. Then came the day I clear coated all the shafts... this piece of wood came alive. I had removed enough wood to get into a layer of wood that transported water and nutrition for the branch... the plumbing inside. Pictures surely will not do justice to the speckled, twisty, worm like patterns of these little tubes that cover the entire length of the light blonde shaft...
To me this was a special shaft so with my new pitch glue I mounted my first successful self-made obsidian stone point to it. I had to carefully reduce the stones weight to 80gr while keeping the NYS minimum of 1" to hit the magic 700gr weight of all the other shafts. The stone survived my amature efforts and attached nicely.
(http://i.imgur.com/kxnoqQB.jpg)
Wanting something more for the shaft I remembered a beautiful piece of cherry bark I cut off a fallen tree at camp. I found it in the shop and pulled it out. I had scraped and scrubbed it with dawn then with weight pressed it flat a year ago.
(http://i.imgur.com/NE5j9y3.jpg)
I thought I could add the deep red, silvery bark as an accent to hold on the fetching and give the arrow further character.
I cut a more manageable strip and hand sanded it down as thin as I could, washed it again, then cut thin stripped off it and later wrapped those strips around a shoot to help shape them as they will be used. Any fatal weak flaws become quickly apparent as the bark is stressed.
(http://i.imgur.com/4Kf8jHu.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/n8sj57O.jpg)
This also allowed me to measure their approximate coverage area related to length.
(http://i.imgur.com/EjEB1UF.jpg)
Cherry bark seems to have good strength but not wanting to chance it on the harvest of a deer I still wanted the known strength of sinew behind the stone point and at the knock. Here are some pictures of how #11 has come so far...
(http://i.imgur.com/glQJLAb.jpg)
Closer to the point the bark is wrapped over it self as it finishes at the feathers it's thinned and given a small and short wrap of sinew for insurance.
(http://i.imgur.com/DbChAE2.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/at22ien.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/00Vn8IA.jpg)
I think once everything dries extra good I might put a cherry bark lashing over the sinew behind the obsidian head just to finish the arrow nicely...
(http://i.imgur.com/IeBOPWW.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/01lrJ4B.jpg)
What I thought to be an ugly pale white skinny shaft finished happily as my favorite individual so far. Thanks for looking guys..
On to # 12 of 14...
Cherry bark is a traditional over sinew wrap on Manchu arrows. It's quite strong, you should have no issues with it. Wish I had some.
Shaft 12 of 14...
Wild rose shoot,
The first of two green glass heads I was able to create from the unusually flat bottom port wine bottle my brother Kenny gave me for Christmas. It actually broke in half as I pushed to hard being to aggressive. Luckily I was able to make something of both pieces.
(http://i.imgur.com/Rohpfhb.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/3tASLBE.jpg)
It's not perfect. I failed to thin the base as much as I wanted so I couldn't gradually taper it as much as I would have.
(http://i.imgur.com/cOkOhkC.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/t2Icax1.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/iBUjXsR.jpg)
Not to butt in...but here is an arrow I made for an arrow trade on PA. Sourwood shoot shaft with self nock, dacite point(knapper unknown)hafted with pitch glue and sinew wrap. Self nock has sinew wrap below it and turkey tail Eastern Woodland style 2 fletch tied on with sinew. All sinew wraps and the shaft are sealed with pitch varnish. This arrow is 28" long and weighs 547grs.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/PAarrowtrade2014001_zps4c8b02b2.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/PatBNC/media/PAarrowtrade2014001_zps4c8b02b2.jpg.html)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/PAarrowtrade2014004_zps8b1aae8e.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/PatBNC/media/PAarrowtrade2014004_zps8b1aae8e.jpg.html)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/PAarrowtrade2014003_zps9a26c9e3.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/PatBNC/media/PAarrowtrade2014003_zps9a26c9e3.jpg.html)
Awesome Pat! You couldn't contribute enough, no worries here buddy.
Eastern Woodland style 2 fletch... I'm going to look that up... good stuff!
Note how the feather is laid up side down, concave up. I don't know if this was a traditional way of doing this but we found by doing it like this the feather lays flatter along the shaft.
There is also a 3 fletch with whole 4" long feathers that is also traditional and works very well. Lots of good feathers get thrown away because most folks don't think the will work for fletching.
You do have to be careful what feathers you mess with too. In the US the majority of the feathers you would find would be illegal to use. They have been federally protected for over 100 years. Feathers from game birds(turkey, geese, ducks, etc.) or exotics(parrots, pheasants, starlings,)would be OK to use.
Turkeys and geese have quite a few 3" to 4" feathers in their wings.
One of the best threads ever,thanks so much for posting!
Awesome job James, Your obviously pretty handy with your hands. I have some things I need done around the house when you come. :biglaugh: And you thought you were coming to hunt!
This stuff is just nuts.......Keep up the entertaining post........ :notworthy:
Awesome stuff Guys.
Oh and David.... Thanks but I'll pass ;) :biglaugh:
Man this has been one awesome thread! Really appreciate you guys taking us along on your talents. :wavey:
Halfseminole if you want some bark to work with PM me and ill get some to you. It's cleaned, scrapped and flattened.
Thanks for the nice comments guys, I'm excited for the hunting to begin, to share our stories here.
David we need to make bows for next year... it's really on my mind, I wanna learn!
Jim, Not a problem buddy, I can teach you everything I know about making bows in about 15 minutes. No, seriously though, that would be cool if we could get together this winter and project on a couple of bows. You would have no problem with your obvious skill set. There is a learning curve for sure, but if you go slow and ask people like Pat B. then not a problem.
What kind of wood? I assume you are talking selfbow?
Super cool work going on there. Can't wait to see what you put on the ground with that gear.
Yes selfbows. I would love osage but have none available to me in the wild, feel I should break some free stuff before paying $100 for a stave. I've been cutting potential staves for 3 yrs and they mostly twist into fire wood. I do have some oak and ash that I think are useable, this year I tried to cut more HHB we will see what it does while drying.
If I able to even make the roughest of bows that was huntable for one season I would be thrilled... I just want a start down the rabbit hole lol
Regression to shaft 10...
When I pulled the cherry bark out of the box in the shop there was a piece of birch bark in there too, it's been sitting on the table with the cherry. I have one wild rose shoot that is entirely covered in dark bark simply because it needed no spine or weight reduction from the first checks. I thought on that dark shaft the white birch would accent the white bone head if I could apply it similar to the cherry.
(http://i.imgur.com/vnHSfZ0.jpg)
It proved to be much harder. The wanted whitest of the bark is the outer most layer which is thinner than tissue in nature. As you wrap around the shaft it lifts off often as you progress revealing a tan colored bark below. Care must be taken to reattach the delicate wispy pieces in their place.
(http://i.imgur.com/Z17GqCi.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/mZA0Zbp.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/UFUQv9S.jpg)
Still need to be sealed and a couple short sinew lashings added, a bark wrap will be added to the knock end of the feathers too...
(http://i.imgur.com/mti4p4q.jpg)
You guys are hardcore and I admire your work, to get a deer with this equipment is going to be very rewarding.
If we can fmscan, if we can!!! We sure will try!!!
We will be hunting from the ground only and need to get close.... needless to say. A very challenging way to hunt deer for sure. Thank you to you and everyone for the nice comments. :)
The first shots flew straight and drove deep...
(http://i.imgur.com/sL78Swt.jpg)
I've been so eager to post the photos of arrows I've finished I never really talked about them flying through the air. I was eager to test them out.
(http://i.imgur.com/tjDrNkM.jpg)
I've admitted to having to much love for the oversized feathers, I shot them like that and they sounded noisy so I burned them.
(http://i.imgur.com/Mq2IWSC.jpg)
There is still a lot more surface area there per feather than my 5" true flight shield cut provides!
Checking with the string I sanded the knocks a little more for a good release too...
Awww the smells of archery...
(http://i.imgur.com/GPNzh1w.jpg)
The bow is a 64" sinew backed yew 60# @27" the handle is straight like you see on many Hill bows. The first arrow flew great, straight, quiet, and at 730 grains finished wt it hits really hard! I had twisted a new B50 string for it and put big wool silencers on it but was still surprised how quiet it was and no hand shock to speak of.
Shooting a self bow with no rest, no dished curvy contoured grip is different.I placed some sticky backed thin fleece like material where the arrow would lay on the riser of the bow. Then drew a black line across the fleece where the arrow should lay and pass according to my knock placement.
My first shots were high left consistently and I thought well I just have to adjust my site picture. Then after shooting a bit I saw wear on the fleece well above the line so I lowered my hand, arrow shot through the line and was no longer high...hmmm
The bow is a beautiful chunk of wood convinced to bend just right, I like how simplistic and primitive it is. I like shooting off my hand, I love my arrows! Like all relationships we need to invest some time together...
:campfire:
I'm shooting with a horn composite bow, but the shooting feel and hand placement deal is the same. I should get some pictures of the bow, it's quite a piece of engineering. It's nice shooting off your hand, the feel of fletching cutting through the back of your hand...
Real cool stuff. :thumbsup:
Jim
this is with out a doubt in my mind the most interesting thread I have ever seen on TG.
Thank you . Wow~
Just read this whole thread start to finish and I'm amazed! Awesome work! I appreciate you sharing this with us!
Thanks for the nice comments guys, much appreciated! Progression takes us all in slightly different directions and I'm greatful to this site to be able to follow and read about many different interests and people. In the past 3 years I've learned to do many things I would have marveled at previously and there is more to come. I figured the more primitive side would appeal to less members but its fun to try new things and fun to hunt with friends sleeping in a T-Wam as a base camp :)
The ground hunting starts here Oct 1st in NY. After all the thoughtful attention and care given to each shaft how will it feel, after waiting for the perfect moment, drawing that shaft slow and steady back over my nuckle till the turkey feathers wisp gently against my nose... Hand relaxes on the string... Feathers go freely through the air... That breathless moment, suspended in time, full of hope, wonder and anticipation ...
As I held my coffee and an arrow this morning before work... I was wondering...
:campfire:
Beautiful work. IMO primitive archery is the ultimate journey in archery with all the hands on work that goes into making equipment. I would like to venture into it one day. Excellent work guys.
Gerald how is that bow build coming along? Any updates.
:campfire:
Again, super nice work and great build along.
I am going to take this link to the store and see if I can get it printed on good paper and have a phamplet of this.
Jim, it's going well I have it bending nicely and am sure I'll be ready with it by the hunt. I also have 2 others that are going to be there as well. I can't do pics I'm not that savvy.
Byron I'm glad you are enjoying our work, it's been a lot of fun learning along the way.
Gerald that's great, I can't wait to see what it is like! Keep us posted buddy
:campfire:
I still wasn't satisfied with either of my twig quivers so yesterday I went and harvested more little bendy branches...
(http://i.imgur.com/Q95hMEn.jpg)
Never know what you will find picking twigs...
*this is a marbled Orb Weaver! Miles aka mlsthmpsn recognized the spider, awesome sir!
(http://i.imgur.com/cHidvZY.jpg)
I could never find twigs or vine small enough for the bottom so this time I tried goose decoy cord. It's mildew and rot resistant.
(http://i.imgur.com/U1MNWU6.jpg)
I'm better at controlling the build shape on the way up with the practice I've had. I kept the bottom smaller this time, oval shapped the body and bent some back contouring shape into it too. I would still like to redo the top/opening inTo a very slight flair but we are out of time now, this will do.
(http://i.imgur.com/je2xcQG.jpg)
Left to right... 1st,2nd,3rd attempts.
I did notice it becomes lighter as it drys but I lost the color stripes I tried to create in the last one.
Getting the weaver tension just right is the hard part of making good basket quivers(any baskets) and using twigs makes that even more difficult. You have done a nice job with these twig quivers.
Have you thought of vines like honeysuckle for the weavers? Might make easier to control.
(http://i.imgur.com/gSHJRXv.jpg)
I didn't have any real leather so I used the best stuff I could find at the local craft store. It's a little thin but hopefully it holds up, I will upgrade it after the season for sure. I used my favorite quiver made by Bud B as a template for the strap placement for offset, length, and knot creation. That saved a lot of time and experimenting, it was great on first try.
(http://i.imgur.com/HHkXQWm.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/GIY8QOL.jpg)
I still need to add some fake fur to the top and bottom to keep things quiet...
Pat I did collect some vines but I couldn't find a real good source. The Wild grape vines I found increased in size fast. Ill be on the look out through the season and have bags for pine sap with me, and watch for shoots for arrows, look for a straight HHB,... my awareness grows! :)
I've enjoyed reading and watching all your creativity....I hope you continue with this while using your gear! Keep up the nice work and go afield with confidence....
:thumbsup:
Will do Mark, and thank you sir... there are 5 of us meeting to hunt on David's land the first weekend of October. My hope is all of us will tell stories here. In my mind I have a hesitancy that I recognize in regards to committing entirely to primitive gear but minimally I will hunt selected outings throughout the season with my gear. Secretly I hope this grabs a hold of me early and I don't let a carbon arrow fly this year... let's see how it feels...
Lucky shoot #13 of 14...
Another very stubborn redosier dogwood that required excessive scraping and sanding well beyond the depth of any lingering bark along with 4 lightening groves the length of the shaft. Once a compatible 450 spine was obtained the shaft weighed in light at 590gr. The 2nd emerald green head from the port wine bottle was successfully reduced to 108 gr in a more controlled even manner than the first. Like arrow 12, the only other all white wood, bark free shaft, wild cherry bark was added for a silvery deep red accent.
(http://i.imgur.com/xwbz9j5.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/UaE8YtC.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/VfCe1DP.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/UJ9TAU4.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/IJAlZ3q.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/R9omzoM.jpg)
*Later I added a full draw indicator to both cherry bark shafts at 27" I've seen this in pictures and thought it looked nice. I found the perfect matching material. A deep, dark red piece of long hair from a beautiful woman that smiles when she sees me... added mono :)
(http://i.imgur.com/ODjiAVV.jpg)
truly a terrific thread!
Worked a little more on making my quiver quiet. First the bottom...
A layer of leather, 3 layers of fleece, sewed at the corners to hold the layers together. All fitted to the bottom...
(http://i.imgur.com/qBTzV7e.jpg)
This sewed to the bottom to quiet side contact and help separate the heads some. *Later that center divider in the picture below had to be removed, it was getting caught by the broadheads as the arrow was removed.
(http://i.imgur.com/VxMKG7j.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/632lBw7.jpg)
And then the top...
(http://i.imgur.com/IYWQZcI.jpg)
I put an extra strip of fleece in the upper portion of the top to add some bulk and cut it a little like a funnel shape so it was flared at the top to curl over and cover the top edge of the quiver...
(http://i.imgur.com/I4CF89C.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/rqW9KNh.jpg)
I have not attached the pieces yet so the wood can get air and dry well in the next week. But I'm satisfied with the result... I don't like the thin leather in the strap that much, I'll have to think about it...
Every time I catch up on this thread I am amazed at what your creating Jim. You got skills! Thanks for sharing it all with us.
What a fun thread to follow along on. The last few months of watching this have been a treat for sure!!
Thanks a lot guys, nice of you to take the time to say so....
David, Gerald any updates? I'm developing a big grin over here... Getting close Boys!
Jim, just got back from our family vacation in Maine an hour ago. I will be working some more on the bow in the next few days, seeing those glass heads is making me want to build a special arrow for the hunt. You are doing an excellant job.
Wow, time sure flies. This last week has been a busy one. Work has been crazy, and I managed to put a new roof on my mothers breezeway. I haven't got any work done on my last two arrows, but I did get a lot done for the hunt. The camp is cleaned up, fixed up, and pretty much ready for the hunt. I built two more ground blinds Saturday for a total of three. Today while I was working at camp, the Doe that always passes threw there, came threw with her two fawns at about 4:30. Iv' seen her come threw there two or three time now when Iv' been there working on the camp. I got within 20 yrds of her and she payed me little mind. I believe the deer are getting used to all the added human activity. My logger sees deer almost daily and they have gotten very used to his presence. All a definite plus when getting close is a must. This week should allow me more time to finish my arrows and be ready for the hunt. I'm off that Friday before the hunt. I could use some help that day if either of you guys can get here early. Don may arrive early Fri., but not sure. If you can't, no big deal. Really looking forward to it guys!
Sounds good Gerald, I'm eager to spend some casual time with you again buddy!
I can get there Friday to help David, ill PM you later today. Time is going fast...
:campfire:
Well I didn't really have time for another project but I couldn't help myself... That strap on the quiver I made was good practice but really light weight so i ordered a belly cut of vegi tanned cow leather. I've done nothing previously with leather so I was really curious to try some stuff...
(http://i.imgur.com/tEhGGd1.jpg)
When I pulled the leather out of the box I was a little surprised how stiff it was. I think it is 6/7 weight. I was just going to cut a typical 1.5" strap
But when I looked at the leather to lay it out I couldn't bring myself to cut the waste off I thought it looked to cool, more natural or rustic so I thought I would try to leave it and adjust it away from my neck...
I beveled the edges all the way around on both sides next...
(http://i.imgur.com/NHppSNW.jpg)
The dry beveled edges were hard and sharp feeling to the touch so I went down the edges with a new sponge, let it sit and soak in a little. Then I smoothed and rounded them out with a little elbow grease. I was shocked how the leather molded or formed and rounded nicely, I didn't expect it.
(http://i.imgur.com/LD3mv0R.jpg)
After it dried I punched the holes I needed to attach to and adjust the quiver...
(http://i.imgur.com/AhY0dZQ.jpg)
Next I put some sketches I had on a practice piece of leather, after dampening the leather and letting it begin to return to its natural color... it's ready to carve...
(http://i.imgur.com/JYQ3s7q.jpg)
I love a little red in any project so I tried an ox blood dye on my sample piece. At first I rubbed the dye into the cut arrow carving but it disappeared, just didn't show up well, so I tried to keep the stain out and leave the cuts a raw light color... I liked how they looked better.
(http://i.imgur.com/wax3N6R.jpg)
I was trying so hard to carve out the letters I didn't keep them level, kinda made me laugh, my focus needed more focus :)
(http://i.imgur.com/w5WsMsC.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/hx9Fnn6.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/XzBmzId.jpg)
I put the ox blood on my piece being careful around the carvings not to fill them in. I actually used a Q-tip to add additional stain close to the carvings and in the holes I punched out. They were also helpful on the rounded edges.
(http://i.imgur.com/mSNN1tk.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/c2wyOWy.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/sw9EnmH.jpg)
It should lighten over night as it dries... I left the back natural, it will not show while wearing the quiver. I stained the back of the test piece and being the rough side the stain looked like ox meat... I didn't care for it... not sure yet. Tomorrow I have a finish to apply and might do the edges black, not sure but I loved how it is so far. I feel like I could drag my deer out with this strap... over built, just like dad taught me lol.
Give the new leather strap a good rubdown with a good leather dressing like Montana Pitch Blend, Mink Oil, etc. It will darken the leather a little but it will make it more flexible and more comfortable. Vigorous hand rubbing will heat the leather and dressing up for better penetration.
That's true Pat, I didn't think of the waterproofing softening the leather, that would be good with me...
Last night late I decided to seal the strap edges so it could dry overnight and I could possibly waterproof the whole thing in the morning. I tried a compatible, same product line as the stain, edge sealer in black.
(http://i.imgur.com/122zJCW.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/rr5923J.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/KA7ojsG.jpg)
My work was not perfect with clean lines but overall I was pleased with the look. To me it added a more finished, framed appearance to the strap.
After the night of drying the leather was ready to go this morning. I decided to give it a good waterproofing, the leather accepted that with no complications.
The fetching on my arrows are drying from a dry-fly waterproofing...
(http://i.imgur.com/aRWAZi4.jpg)
I don't think I showed this either... each arrow has my initials and the year very small somewhere near the nock/fetching area. I did this with my brother Dan's arrows last year and liked how it turned out. When I did his arrows I experimented with different things and applications, for me India ink worked best. You can buy different sized markers in any good craft store.
(http://i.imgur.com/wLi3rl7.jpg)
This is really a good thread to follow! I look forward to each day's updates. You're really a talented guy with lots of skills! :thumbsup:
Bernie
Thanks Bernie, appreciate that sir...
Quiver is done. I can hardly look at anything I've made and not want to do it again or more or better or slightly different but having said that I really love the quiver. The new strap is awesome. After adjusting the old strap I knew how long I wanted the New one. Bud B sent me a new leather back quiver and it lays across my back better than any I've worn so I totally took his set up for my stick quiver, gotta give him credit, thanks brother.
(http://i.imgur.com/HEAzrng.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/P1rCkrP.jpg)
This is a picture of the quiver completely done. I used an all weather nylon type of heavy thread to sew the bottom pieces and the collar like fleece piece together, then that was sewed to the twig quiver all around the top edge of the bottom piece and all around the bottom of the piece at the opening of the quiver. All tag ends were burned/ melted down to increase holding power of the knot and keep them hard to see. My first thought was to have all the fleece removable in case wet but that proved problematic putting broadheads in and out, so I tried them in, the old wood stove will dry it.
(http://i.imgur.com/JVEaVbx.jpg)
Interestingly enough as the twig quivers dry the sticks shrink and that loosens the once tightly packed feel into something that moves and flexes easily on your back, but it's honestly secure/solid. I'm pleasantly surprised by this quiver. Ill be interested to see how I feel after hunting with it...
Looks Great!
Wish I had known you were gonna buy edge dressing. I've got a solid paleo way to fix leather edges. Looks better to my screwed up eyes, too, but that strap looks plenty fine to me. I'll start my own quiver thread and post it there, but would you like me to cross post it here as well?
Had a slight setback , my bow that I had been working on for the hunt broke. A large bamboo sliver lifted on the upper limb as I was measuring the weight. I had rushed the tillering job and I knew it might come back to get me. I had come in underweight and had to robbed the tips to gain weight, and in the end it was too much for the little 58" bow to handle.
That's OK I will be using my 2 other bows that I made, self nock arrows, and a new knife that I just finished, just not a special bow.
Charlie good luck this season, hunt and travel safe this fall!
Halfseminole would love to see your leather edge treatment. There is so much to learn and try. This has been an introduction to many things, I look forward to much more of it all...
Sorry to hear about your bow Gerald but looking forward to seeing the rest of your gear buddy...
I've never made a bamboo arrow and I never used anything but wing feathers. I really liked Pats tail feather fletching, so I gave it a try... I wish you could have seen me trying to align the feathers so in the front the quill was on the top and bottom while on the back near the knock the quill was on the sides of the shaft... I needed more hands!
I built a primitive Native American Eastern Woodland 2 fletch arrow with self knock and sinew wrappings, a bone hunting point attached to the bamboo shoot with pine pitch glue and reinforced with sinew.
(http://i.imgur.com/Fyx3Q8o.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/RUCyyLM.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/xlz5OZb.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Kn1v2Mz.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/J7lXasN.jpg)
Awesome buddy, the quiver and boo arrow look great. I really like that tail feather two fletch. Sticking out of a deer will look even better!!! I'm starting to smell fresh venison. Got to run... talk to you later. :thumbsup:
I can't wait to see which arrow(s) draw blood!!!
Inspiring in so many ways!
Washing hunting clothes, organizing gear, emailing to make final lists, plans, arrival times... I can't believe our hunt is almost here, I work one more day then vacation...
:bigsmyl: Soon
This is one of the coolest threads i've seen. Awesome stuff here.
Very good stuff, I like it!
Thanks guys!!! Scouting in the cool and damp early morning... can you feel it?
(http://i.imgur.com/JtMH8hY.jpg)
:clapper: :clapper: :clapper: :clapper: Can't wait till you guys get out there!!!
Jim I love this thread and all the primitive stuff you are making . If you are interested in the bow classes at Hawkeye I'm friends with Dave Reed who teaches the class call me if you want his number .
The spider a few days back is a Marbled Orb Weaver....fitting since you were searching for weaving material yourself.
Oh, and great thread guys! I'm just getting into archery (mostly a gun dog kinda guy)...I tend to tinker in everything I do, so this is right up my alley.
Thanks Ron, I'm excited to get this started too! Good luck this year Ron.
Alex that is awesome buddy! I wanted to go this year and learn but didn't make it. That's a great offer, thanks. After our hunting season maybe I could talk to him? Thank you for mentioning it...
Miles I love that you knew that spider, that's crazy to me, good on you. Thanks for the compliment. I grew up with hounds and have a deep love for fine working hounds... so a gun dog kinda guy is cool with me :thumbsup:
Getting my gear all in order as well, going NO camo on this hunt. Nothing but plaid wools or Moleskin pants.
I agree with all this is a fantastic thread. Because of it I could not help myself when in the elk woods and collected a bunch of sap. As you all know the beetles have killed much of the lodge pole here in WY. Well the trees have been dead for about 3 to 5 yrs now. Most of the sap is pretty dry, and just crumbled away at my touch, so as I went I just put what I could get in my pocket. Well after a 6 mile 5+hr morning hunt it had soften and stuck to my keys and my pocket what a mess :knothead: . Now I carry a zip lock bag. As soon as the leaves fall from the choke cherry I will begin collecting shoots.
Great thread very motivating!! now i got to go build a bow :) keep up the good work!
After much preparation the camp is set to hunt, and I now have time to finish building my last two arrows. Don and Gerald and Jim my renowned ungulate hunting brothers of the primitive bow ,are set and ready to go. Details and arrival times have been hashed out, settled, and finalized. What a great group of guys I'm being blessed to hunt with. Hard core hunters each and every one of them. Not only do these men love to hunt deer, but are willing to match wits and tackle their prey using primitive gear from the ground level. Thank you guys, and thank you Lord for bringing this hunt together.
I'll try to get some pictures posted of my gear when I get it finished
COME ONNNNNNNNN.... FRIDAY!!!!!! :campfire:
Good luck guys!
Thanks AL, and thank you all for the nice responses. :)
There is something special about opening day. For the process with all it's highs and lows... Struggles and accomplishments to begin again. In Cuba NY our morning began with rain and heavy fog...
(http://i.imgur.com/iwbJ2UE.jpg)
With an east wind I took a different approach to my hunting area. As the fog lingered i kept a watchful eye toward the field while I still hunted 20 yards inside the face of a woods. Often there are large scrapes under the drooping oak branches where the woods and field meet, often deer beds just inside the woods, always rubs on the old logging roads leading toward the field... This is prime hunting ground. Moving through cover slowly is a challenge for me early in the season... Its like I need to refine that slower gear, those stealthy movements.
As I progressed further along the field edge a blow down tree top pushed me deeper into the timber. As moved slowly back toward the woods edge more of the field came into view. About the time I could see the field rather well I saw a year and a half old spike that had found my wind take his first of many big loping bound along the woods edge towards safety.
Those long graceful seemingly effortless bounds, that flagging twitchy big white tail, the forward curving bone like antlers mostly obscured by his ears.... That's it.... It has begun! I am a hunter again and I feel very alive :)
(http://i.imgur.com/pVpDoHu.jpg)
My last two heads built from blue ribbon spring steel. R/C 50-52
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/GEDC0026_zps5637521e.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/GEDC0026_zps5637521e.jpg.html)
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/GEDC0026_zps563%20%5Burl=http://http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/GEDC0027_zpsd951d574.jpg.html%5D%20%5Bimg%5Dhttp://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/GEDC0027_zpsd951d574.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/GEDC0026_zps5637521e.jpg.html) 7521e.jpg[/IMG][/url]
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/GEDC0029_zpsf4%20%5Burl=http://http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/GEDC0030_zpsb7b9e3d5.jpg.html%5D%20%5Bimg%5Dhttp://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/GEDC0030_zpsb7b9e3d5.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/GEDC0029_zpsf483c240.jpg.html) 83c240.jpg[/IMG][/url]
My bow is a Ryan Gill snaky Osage 51 @ 27 deer antler tip overlays. Both steel tipped arrows weigh 562 grn. One is made with a shoot shaft, and the other is plant steak bamboo.I made the add on nock for the boo arrow.The quiver is made of buffalo hide.
More cool stuff........ :thumbsup: :notworthy:
It's all up to you now! oh, and the deer. ;)
Great stuff guys. When is the hunt again? is it next weekend or the weekend after?
The hunt was this last weekend Charlie. We all had a fantastic time. Don hunted until today.He left for home this morning. I'm sure the other guys will chime in soon. I want to thank Jim, Gerald and Don for making such a memorable weekend. Thanks again guys. May God bless your hunting season! :thumbsup:
So how did you guys do......I'm sure all had a good time!
:campfire: :coffee:
The hunt was awesome and I feel confident saying we all had a great time at David's property. I really enjoyed being some place different, seeing someone else's piece of paradise materialized by sweat and hard work. David, Gerald, and I had spent enough time together that I felt we slipped into a comfortable relationship...Don was a great addition to the group. Unfortunately David's brother was unable to make the gathering so it was the four of us Fri, Saturday, and Sunday.
I drove from our hunting camp in Cuba, NY to David's house near Corning, N.Y. a little over an hour away. I arrived about 130pm to see Don and Gerald talking beside a tractor and trailer of gear. It was the tee wam express! Davids way to transport all our gear to our camp teepee... and it worked great.
(http://i.imgur.com/gKBOeV0.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ZS53mX3.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/gPYxdrW.jpg)
David's 25' Tee Wam was amazing! An impressive site from the first look, it's a well crafted shelter with all the comforts one would want. There was a perfect sized wood stove inside that we used Saturday night when it dropped to 33 Degrees. We were toasty as can be inside with enough fresh air to breath.
(http://i.imgur.com/C08KybK.jpg)
Inside there was an awesome fitted flat stone floor. Around the inside edge there was 5 built wooden platforms to set our cots on. The cot was velcrowed to the platform to keep it steady.
David has about 75 acres he ownes with thousands of acres of state land around, directly touching his property. He had set up multiple blinds in good,proven spots for us to start off hunting...
(http://i.imgur.com/SkSQuV6.jpg)
I have to say to David's credit I really appreciated his hoasting style. He was willing to set us up or cut us loose on the state land to do out own thing. Though I didn't see and deer I really enjoyed exploring the new grounds in the state land. It was exciting to put my boots on new land and still hunt with the wind not knowing for sure what was around the corner. I had a good Sylvia compass and an open mind. I know there are good deer there but early season is tough in my opinion.
(http://i.imgur.com/E3mMI2B.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/aKnVzrq.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/MViNm9J.jpg)
For me the best part of the trip was the casual time spent beside the campfire or under the cook tarp. It was the conversation exchanged over coffee, all the seemingly endless hunting stories shared in excited tones and passionate expressions, the hardy laughter... plainly said it was fellowship in the woods of like minded brothers...
(http://i.imgur.com/BnDGdCv.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/r9aWf6h.jpg)
As David drove me out in the trailer pulled with the 1940s tractor... I wished our weekend wasn't ending but as we passed through the woods and fields I came to see it more as a begging than an end. Something to be continued and furthered.
For me we were all easy company and as I talked to David while he helped load my truck we shared thoughts of next time,the rest of our season, and next year...
Our Rendezvous of primitive hunters seems yet full of possibilities because our passion runs to the bone! It's not over...
To Be Continued!
That sure looks like fun.
Yes I also had a special time with the "Bone Crew". I just loved to be able to camp and hunt at the same time, thanks again David for the hosting, Jim for the story telling, Don for the new friendship, and the good Lord for all of it.
Looks like a slice of heaven. That's what it is all about.
I want to thank David, Jim, and Gerald for the outstanding experience I had hunting in New York State. What a great opportunity to spend time in such beautiful country. Thanks for the hospitality and for making me feel so comfortable and welcome. I also enjoyed the couple days of solitude there in the woods as well. I came away relaxed and thankful for being able to get away from it all for a few days. It meant a lot to me.
Looks like a great Camp and group of guys! Thank you for sharing this thread, it has been quite pleasurable.
With his eloquent descriptive writing and his obviously skillful hands, I give a special thanks to my new friend James C. His dedication to the endeavor of this primitive hunt was far from selfish. The first thing I learned about Jim was not just his obvious crafting skills, but the energy,drive,respect and care he exudes towards his fellow man. You have my respect and admiration my friend. Your in a "class" of your own! Thanks Jim
:notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: Cool... :notworthy:
Sorry to say no deer where killed ( this time ), but that"s the way it go's sometimes. Everything started changing with the deer when the acorns started falling. Big woods with thousands of oak trees doesn't give up her deer easily. Once the bucks start seeking out there girls then things will become a little more predictable. Here, for right now, it is what it is.......tough hunting. Maybe next year the acorns won't start falling quite so early.
I tried making my first knife sheath for my new favorite accessory over the past few days. I wanted to have it match my quiver strap. It turned out good but like everything else, with flaws I will avoid next time.
(http://i.imgur.com/7vGaNfQ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/XlppPMD.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/kqJWfQH.jpg)
Ox blood stain after the stiching holes were in...
(http://i.imgur.com/emEtrg2.jpg)
After the stain dried over night I soaked the leather in warm water and used the plastic wrapped knife as a form to mold the leather to the knife to get a nice snug fit...
(http://i.imgur.com/SUoZyq6.jpg)
Lots of continued pressing and molding with my hands the entire time the leather dried created a nicely fitted shape...
(http://i.imgur.com/wCnH3oL.jpg)
After drying again over night I began hand sewing the sheath together with the mighty saddle stitch. Pulling each stitch tight drew it into the leather creating a smooth finished look.
(http://i.imgur.com/VX8t8Tv.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/gsTDhQZ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/iTGy5yx.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/5aIpX1z.jpg)
An additional shim like piece of leather is sewed into the edge to prevent the blade from wearing into to stitches. Building this piece in creates excess protruding leather that I sanded off easily with a disc slander.
(http://i.imgur.com/8jQOu9X.jpg)
The edges were beveled again and like the quiver strap all edges were sealed in a black finish. Outside sealed and buffed...
(http://i.imgur.com/341OilL.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/FZGtzX6.jpg)
Knawbone and I have made tentative plans to hunt on the ground with our primitive gear this weekend at my family's camp in Cuba. The hunt goes on...
:campfire:
Looks great Jim, quality work as always. I'm getting ready to go out this morning with the prim. equipment. A scout/hunt combo- we'll see how it go's. A nice cool 34 degrees, no reason they shouldn't be moving some.Will be hunting the DEC land across the road.Looking forward to our hunt Jim. :campfire:
Called a Doe in to my ground blind Sunday morning, after she passed by the stand at 25 yrds,I called her back with a few fawn bleats.I had her at 10 yrds, but couldn't get a shot. She only had to take a couple more steps. It wasn't to be. She finally caught my scent and walked off with a little stomp and a quiet double blow. hopefully I'll get another chance this year with the primitive gear. After the hunt, i ventured to other parts of the DEC land to do some scouting. I found these beautiful wild grapes after being tipped off by a pair of ruffed grouse. (http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/GEDC0031_zpsd79756c5.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/GEDC0031_zpsd79756c5.jpg.html)
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/GEDC0032_zps740d8cbb.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/GEDC0032_zps740d8cbb.jpg.html)
These wild grapes are the biggest Iv' ever seen. They were easily half the size of concord grapes. Some of the largest ones were actually sweet.It was a beautiful fall day and I was thankful I was alive.
Hunted one of those small unexpected looking spots behind a friend's house. Its alwsys nice to refresh acquaintances with nice people you don't normally see through the year, does the heart good.
The day looked so perfect. Overcast, light consistent breeze, on and off light rain. You couldn't paint a better picture for a fall hunting day. I was on the ground in my ghillie suit, well hidden and comfortable. It looked so good I stayed in my hide out till just after 1100. No deer passed in a spot that by the end of the season will reveal many. That's hunting. I packed up and decided to do some still hunting/ scouting before returning to the truck. 50 yards from my set up I bump a buck off an overgrown trail... the wind was good he simply saw me before I saw him as we wondered toward each other. As the wind and rain increased in the afternoon I took the opportunity to check other spots in the area and set them up.
I've done well leaving my Zipper at home though it feels like an effort to do so, I miss it, in till I look closely at the arrows I made. The desire to put them through a rib cage is strong. It's been a slow start to my season but early season is most often like that for me. Ill get opportunities, I just need to keep doing the work.
(http://i.imgur.com/AZGkgha.jpg)
Also notable is how shooting has progressed with this bow. The straight, not contoured grip is nothing I would gravitate toward on my own but I've learned little things by spending time with the bow and that is gratifying. I don't feel nearly as limited as my shooting suggested before the season. These shots were 5,15,22... I'm having fun and learning...
Boy! it was great spending the weekend once again with my friends Jim and Gerald. This time the gathering was in Cuba NY at Jim's beautiful camp. His cabin there doesn't look all that cabiny from the outside, but once you step inside, it's a whole different world. Let me just say it could be the envy of any hunter. Very nicely done Jim. We once again had problems locating and seeing deer as is the norm for early season. It wasn't from a lack of trying and Jim knows the land and deer movements intimately. So anyway, here are a few pics to share the good time.
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/GEDC0052_zpsa7c6ddea.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/GEDC0052_zpsa7c6ddea.jpg.html)
Mr. JC himself as we left the cabin for our final hunt of the weekend.
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/GEDC0050_zpsdd4e9776.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/GEDC0050_zpsdd4e9776.jpg.html)
What hunting camp would be complete without a hang pole. I'd like to see all the deer that have hung on this pole over the years.
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/GEDC0048_zps124ab239.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/GEDC0048_zps124ab239.jpg.html)
The out house door handle may not be the first of it's kind....but you got ta love it!
I must say, this was the best smelling out house Iv' ever used. Clean and smelled clean, complete with hand sanitizer and about 10 kerosine lanterns hanging overhead. Very Kool out house to match the awesome cabin.
Awesome thread fellas!!
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/GEDC0043_zpsae8747ed.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/GEDC0043_zpsae8747ed.jpg.html)
I had to get a pic of these two old enamel steel foldout tables. The place was absolutely loaded with really neat stuff. We had plenty of good stuff in the coolers as well!
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/GEDC0034_zps0050e033.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/GEDC0034_zps0050e033.jpg.html)
Gerald agrees with me as I snapped this shot after a mornings hunt.
One of my favorite ( and scenic )set ups, was an inside field corner with a huge leaved tree top for a natural blind.Jim had this spot picked out Confirming to me that he has a few hunting miles under his belt. I of coarse had to collect the memory.These were taken from my natural hideout.
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/GEDC0045_zpse8b6768b.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/GEDC0045_zpse8b6768b.jpg.html)
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/GEDC0047_zps92252bcb.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/GEDC0047_zps92252bcb.jpg.html)
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/GEDC0046_zps6db255f1.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/GEDC0046_zps6db255f1.jpg.html)
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u615/dbb24/GEDC0044_zps3571dc8d.jpg) (http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/dbb24/media/GEDC0044_zps3571dc8d.jpg.html)
:clapper: :clapper: Great stuff.......
:campfire:
How fast a year can go! The older I get more I seem wonder where the days drift away to. I'm not complaining, just saying. I managed to acquire two new selfbows this year that have captured my imagination like I'm sure we all hope a new stick will. The first is a #55@28" 60" tip to tip Elm bow made by our own Pat B.
(http://i.imgur.com/6Z4QlsM.jpg)
The 2nd bow I've been shooting a lot is a 55#@28# 62" Osage by Ted Fry.
(http://i.imgur.com/X6J9wLs.jpg)
One bow or the other is all I have shot this year. I took both to the sawmill shoot in PA this past June, my father and David were both able to be there.
(http://i.imgur.com/inNXvsu.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/pJmHJdq.jpg)
Then it was Denton Hill in July
(http://i.imgur.com/6YsJxRJ.jpg)
TOOOOOOOOOOOOOO cool.
I'm committed to hunting them for the entire season this year, along with arrows I've made of Red Osier Dogwood, pats hill cane, and wild rose. I have high hopes of my first selfbow/ more primitive kill this year.
The 13 of September I leave for the Adirondacks early bear season. David will be meeting me there for a primitive archery black bear hunt and fishing trip we have planned since last year.
Roughly our plan is to paddle across a reservoir then portage into a section of designated primitive wilderness, to two lakes some what close together and stocked with brook trout. I expect very difficult bear hunting compensated by plentiful & generally unfished trout, but time will tell.
Being generally the instigator of projects big and small my friend David mentioned that he was going to try and make a small lure to catch some trout on. He ended up making more than one and that started my wheels turning.
I decided to try and make a small lure from some of the aged Red Osier Dogwood in my garage that I cut for arrows. Since this is not a fishing site I will spare you all the long version of design & research... I will say it was very fun and interesting, I believe I hand crafted something that will catch a trout and that will be a first. Like most things, what started out as making one wooden lure turned into completing ten lol
(http://i.imgur.com/fn4hvfU.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/cXbMaXk.jpg)
I had to keep some bark on...
(http://i.imgur.com/Exkmn2a.jpg)
Adding a few feathers on some of my little lures letd to tying my first flies and a fly rod being added to the gear list. I've never caught a trout on a fly rod so this will be a fun trip.
I just wanted to share a little with you guys, it's been a busy year and I'm sure I'm not alone. I love reading the diversity of our adventures starting up this time of year all over the country, elk, mule deer, white tail, and it's fun to contribute too.
Some of our goals take a little more learning... a little more time... but I wouldn't change a thing!
Travel safe and be well guys!
Good luck on your hunt and those lures sure look like they will catch fish. I can't wait to read the tales of this adventure.
Have fun you two,if either one of you kills a bear you we be elevated to hero status for the rest of my life. Keep us posted.
This is an extremely informative thread. Thanks for taking the time to share it.