Ive been reading alot about point of aim and gap shooting all the time ive shot traditional ive always just anchored concentrated on spot ive wanted to hit and released and followed thru but watching youtube n reading articles recently has gote wondering have i been doing it wrong shud i be doing it these other ways ive always grouped within 3-5 inches but never been a le to group like quarter size as with my compound do i need to just keep practicing wut im doing r do i need to adopt one of these other methods any advice
Any time you try to change the way you shoot, there will be a learning curve. Nothing wrong with the way you were doing it. It is called instinctive. I just burn a hole into the spot I want to hit with my eyes and let her fly. What ever shooting method works for you, stick with it.
Thats wut i was hopin to hear thanx man not downing anyones way of shooting but for me those other ways wud take all the fun out of it for me
I think what happens over time is using a reference like gap or poa, or slit vision if you will, is you end up focusing less on the reference and more on the spot. Gravitating to a calculated instinctive method. Where in the beginning it's more of a methodical point here or x gap and release.
What should you do? Only you can determine that. How much or little effort you put in will dictate the return. The question is how far do you want to take it. Initially it's fun to a degree . Brings back memories of wheels and you'll likely wonder why are you torturing yourself. This is supposed to be simple and fun. If you ride that wave long enough to transition back to a more fluid almost instinctive method you'll find you're shooting in a much higher bracket than ever before. Welcome back fun !
I watch 20yd spot guys poa shooting and it's extremely impressive. Start throwing off ball distances in precarious stances and they chalk up just as many misses as everyone else. (And it includes game! So don't become solely dependant on the means). Once you combine the ho hum almost sloppyness of stinctive shooting to the more structured methods involving some form of reference is when you'll really peak as a shooter ! It's those days where the arrow becomes a lazer guided missile when it gets really fun.
This is my first season with the trad bow, but i have shot a lot over the years and especially since January. About every day. I think what AkDan said is spot on. In MN where I hunt I have never shot any deer more than 30 yards away - compound- the woods are just too thick when i set up. With my recurve, i feel very confident out to 20-25. My only advice, and it seems to work for me, practice long range at game sized targets. If you want to be dead on at 20, practice a lot at 30. I also shoot at 3ds and other animal sized targets because it forces me to burn a hole in a spot on the animal. If i shoot at ping-pong balls i think it takes away from the mental focus i need to develop as a trad shooter.
A lot of top shooters are now opting for high anchors to get a point on at 25 yards. It makes for really manageable gaps and accurate shooting inside of 30 yards. Of course aiming is only part of the equation. Form is huge and archery is a mental sport.
Shoot however you want to shoot, as long as you are having fun that's what matters. If you want to really shoot competitively (target, 3D, etc.) then learning a method like gap is going to be necessary. Remember people who shoot "instinctive" well really just shoot a subconscious gap system, except maybe the very few super humans like Byron Ferguson and others like him. Bottom line is, if you like the way you shoot now dont stop have fun.
LOL, what they all said. Bar you sound like you're doin fine. Form and follow through are the keys to the gate. Keep at it.
A lot of people make archery like golf.
I can't think of anything worse than complicating a simple sport.
Don't over think it and enjoy the shot! My bet is closing the size of your groups is a little tuning here, a better release there.
But keep doing it the way you are doing it! Don't change!
Joshua
If it's not broke don't fix it is a saying that comes to mind!
If you are shooting well why change unless you are trying to be super competitive.
Keep it simple and fun
Some will say there is no such thing as true instinctive archery?? For me, the more I forget about everything and just look where I want to hit the better my shot. If you have a style that works for you then I wouldn't switch it.
There are lots of ways to fling arrows. None of those ways is the only way or the best way (for you). They all work, to varying degrees.
Consider something though. Every time you add something to the aiming sequence, you have the possibility of making the whole thing more precise, of course, starting with good form and matched equipment. A single sight pin (or arrow point), a single anchor, multiple sight points, multiple anchor points,distance meters and on all CAN add precision. You need to decide what YOU want out of this game and go from there.
No sense messing with simple instinctive aiming if your goal is to break nocks all day. Sure, a few can do it, but if you add all the "stuff" you are more likely to do it, the biggest jump up being, of course, the compound system with release.
If your goal is to enjoy yourself in the simplest way, not worry so much about the competition, and still hit reasonably well at reasonable (or maybe. . doable)distances, then maybe instinctive is in your future.
Howard supposedly stated, "you got to decide if you are going to be a hunter or a target archer".
ChuckC
Howard also didn't shoot instinctive. In hindsight of the greats instructors were actually a minority. But again no way is wrong. If it works for what you're doing.
The correlation I'm referring to is finding out ( reading) a lot of the old timers writings that evolved from some form of system to a more fluid semi instinctive style. Though it's never truely that. If you go this route. It took me 20 years to have that epiphany. I'm just dumbfounded why more don't try it.
I'm not against instinctive though it sounds that way. A number of years ago I learned the hard way the evolution from some form of aiming back to a semi instinctive style. Unfortunately I didn't stay on it after a rotator cuff tear. Maybe I'll get back to really humming. Maybe not. Time will tell.
One item in your post that nobody has touched on is group size. You said you are consistently grouping at 3 - 5 inches. That is pretty good. You will not get quarter sized groups the way you did with your compound. Nobody on this site shoots quarter sized groups day in and day out, but that is not at all necessary for successful hunting. It appears that your aiming method is working.
Yea i enjoy the way i shoot but i do wish i cud tighten my groups i mean i normally hit where i aim within like 5" but like to kno exactly where im gonna hit instead of guess but dont wanna change but then again ges its mainly cuz i dont understand exactly wut theyre doin like the point on at say 25 yrds wut does that mean ? Is it when im at full draw the point of my arrow will be at centrr of target
I have never seen anyone shoot quarter size groups consistently either. I have to agree with others..I love traditional for the simplicity of it all, and it's just a lot of fun.
Dont take me wrong, you should have the correct level of serious-ness about getting to where you can shoot well, and know your limitations etc. (Im talking hunting here) but unless you are trying to shoot competitivley, I just dont see the point of killing yourself trying to shoot dime size groups, every time. I believe it to be possible, but not very practical for the average guy?
For me, trad gear sort of set me free from the "have to have the latest gizmo" mindset of the compound bow world....and it put the fun back into bowhunting for me. The switch wasnt a huge leap for me though, as I shot trad bows when I was a kid, and it is sort of second nature for me.
Mark
I have two suggestions.
1) Forget point of aim.
2) Stop texting.
Killdeer :biglaugh:
I enjoy shooting recurve a and longbows far more than I ever did a compound. I try to focus on a solid anchor and focusing on the spot . I have come to the conclusion I will never be able to stack them in as tight with a longbow as I could with a compound. What I do know is I can keep them in the kill zone. : )
I enjoy shooting recurve a and longbows far more than I ever did a compound. I try to focus on a solid anchor and focusing on the spot . I have come to the conclusion I will never be able to stack them in as tight with a longbow as I could with a compound. What I do know is I can keep them in the kill zone. : )
Thanx guys that all makes lot more sense to me
A 5 inch group at 20 yards will keep you inside the 4-ring on an NFAA 40 cm target. If only half of 60 shots lands in the 5-ring you'll shoot a 270. If the distribution is more "normal", you'll probably shoot closer to a 280. Not many people here are really holding a 6 inch group at 20 yards...not over very many arrows.
While a "traditional" bow is a simple device, shooting one really well is not so simple.
Personally, I use the arrow to aim. Long arrows, 3-under and the highest anchor I can comfortably shoot keep my gaps small.
Recently I took one little crawl down the string to put me point on at 20 yards. Just put the tip of the arrow on what you want to hit.
It doesn't get any simpler than that. I can even do it "instinctively". LOL
While Howard Hill described his aiming method in writing, he never mentioned it or taught it to John Schulz. I look at it as a graphic description of what one does naturally with added acknowledgement of seeing the arrow. Hill also used the term IMAGINAIRY secondary aiming point, that the eyes MUST be focused at the smallest point of aim possible. He onced stated that one should not get overly fundamental with the aiming process. With using consistently the same arrow and bow, your hand and eyes will feel and see a consistent relationship of your arrow and the place you want to hit if you want to or not. As Hill said with sighting to Schulz, "bore a hole though it."
There is a difference from taking one good shot at a game animal than to shooting a tight group at a flat target.
One trick to test your aim. Intentionally 'bore a hole through it', but draw slightly off target. Your internal alarm bells will go off and you will correct your aim at release. I find it is good to practice this for simulating hunting shots in odd positions, so I get a feel for what is wrong, so if I happen to draw off line on game, I can correct myself and still make a good shot.
Pavan...I do believe if you read Johns writings he's mentioned Howard being his sole instructor. Along with in his video (initial opening talk portion), though he doesn't come outright and say it in so many words in the video, he does in away....where he really does is in his book. John from what I've read wasn't a bowhunter or archer at all until he met Howard along with his brother Dan who learned the trade from Howard as well. Do you have a copy of Johns book? if you'd like I can message James. or you can, he runs Hunting under Heaven.
http://huntingunderheaven.com/
Ok there's one thing that does irk me about this hole bore a hole through it...it makes stincters feel good in my opinion, (mind you I shoot in a more fashion stincter myself so I'm not nagging at ones ideology as much as I am this hole principle of just bore a hole through it and letr rip).
The reality is before Howard became Howard that we know..he WAS in fact an accomplished target archer. Which means countless hours at a range, doing the same thing over and over again perfecting a method whatever it was. Did this method lend itself to bowHUNTING....according to Howards writings, NO. John follows the same principle 'you pick one or the other'. The fact is if you start with the target more remigmented style of shooting, you're transition into a hunter style if you will, is an easier transition. The bows tuned, the shooters tuned, the calculators tuned. What's left? Not much!!!
It would be like saying Magic or say Jordan picked up a bball and became some of the best if not one of these best bball'ers known to the history of the sport. Quite frankly there was a significant amount of time to build himself to this ho hum, bore a hole through and shoot, or casual style. He has or had if you will, already programed the computer we ARE programming..this is the one giant difference. his was, ours are in the process of. Its a lot like learning to fly cast on a river full of hungry trout with a fly on your line. you're catching fish, so you're doing something right. Many people settle here....where some take it far beyond the next level. John said Howard was a perfectionist....Howard achieved perfection and didn't settle for less.
I had the pleasure of shooting with a women's world champion on a couple of occasions she was in our 3D group along with 2 or 3 compounders. To say I was in awe of this woman's expertise would have been gross understatement.
This lady was a string walker, and pretty much rifle accuracy at 3D shots out to 25-30 yds. The compounders were not even close to this lady's level of shooting.
A good level of accuracy is achievable by many I'm sure, and like anything else will take focus, good coaching, commitment and maybe a bit of genetic disposition thrown in.