Last Jan. I got a wild hair and sent Kirk at Big Foot Bows a challenge.
Build me a Flatliner Bow that is an all out hot rod. The only criteria I gave him was I needed it to be 64", #50ish, NFAA long bow legal and able to shoot out to 50 yards with minimal drop.
I know this is a hunting forum but lets face it. the actual time we spend hunting is minimal compared to the time spent through out the year shooting for fun,3D, and field events. It all adds up to making us more effective hunters. That was my thinking when ordering. I want a great competion bow and he's the man to supply it.
Well as in a good horse, give the man his head and let er rip. Kirk out done himself.
More to come
:coffee:
I'm at work so can't spend alot of time on this tonight.But I'll try to give some info. because I'm jazzed and can't wait to get my hands on it.
Kirk sent me some chrono numbers on this baby. They are within 2 feet per sec. to my Sasquatch Recurve using simular weight arrows.
Imagine a #49 long bow shooting as fast as a #57 recurve.If it has the cast of my SAS. I'm in busness.
As I said I left the build up to KIrk. At this time the only thing I know is the riser and limbs are black and white ebony.
The bow is scheduled to ship tomorrow hopefully I'll have my hands on it by Sat.
Maybe if Kirk happens to see this thread he can fill in the blanks and maybe add some pictures.
:campfire:
:notworthy:
First ingredient was some purdy wood....
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u301/kirkll/Bows%202014/Dennis%20Smith%20B%20W%20Flatliner/SANY0007.jpg) (http://s171.photobucket.com/user/kirkll/media/Bows%202014/Dennis%20Smith%20B%20W%20Flatliner/SANY0007.jpg.html)
Second thing we added a little smooth on....
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u301/kirkll/Bows%202014/Dennis%20Smith%20B%20W%20Flatliner/SANY0010.jpg) (http://s171.photobucket.com/user/kirkll/media/Bows%202014/Dennis%20Smith%20B%20W%20Flatliner/SANY0010.jpg.html)
Then we stick her in the forms to get some of those sexy curves next...
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u301/kirkll/Bows%202014/Dennis%20Smith%20B%20W%20Flatliner/SANY0003.jpg) (http://s171.photobucket.com/user/kirkll/media/Bows%202014/Dennis%20Smith%20B%20W%20Flatliner/SANY0003.jpg.html)
Ahhh,
There ya are. To bad the boys on the wrong coast are all asleep. I guess they have a little something to wake up to.
Any How. Bring it brother.
I have no idea how you work your magic. I just love to shoot em
QuoteOriginally posted by petalumapete:
I know this is a hunting forum but lets face it. the actual time we spend hunting is minimal compared to the time spent through out the year shooting for fun,3D, and field events.
not from where i'm from. :bigsmyl: :archer2:
looking forward to the rest
Looks goods so far.
Hope it ships today
I thing one of the best parts of a new bow is the anticipation.
I feel like a kid waiting for Santa
Can you hear the reindeer bells?
Kirk that sure is 'purdy wood'
Yes Pete anticipating a creation from Kirk is very cool. Keep us up to date you rascal.
I would hate to think how many hours I have spent looking at Kirks website as well as Bigfoot bows on here..... He is a true artisan and master of his craft. One of these days...... One of these days :)
Kirk, I thought I read on here before that you don't advocate a heavier wood like ebony as a veneer? I might be misremembering, but figured this is the perfect time to ask. I'm all ears....looking forward to learning.
That is what I thought too. Really surprised on Kirk's pick for wood. Good news though since he is building me a set of limbs right now......in bw ebony.
:campfire:
QuoteOriginally posted by TxAg:
Kirk, I thought I read on here before that you don't advocate a heavier wood like ebony as a veneer? I might be misremembering, but figured this is the perfect time to ask. I'm all ears....looking forward to learning.
I suppose if all a guy was looking for was speed, i wouldn't advocate using heavy veneer stock. But when you have a bow design that is exceeding the performance levels of most double carbon bows out there just using glass..... you can afford to use a little heavier veneers. In this case.... We just had to use ebony veneers....
This isn't the fastest bow i've ever built, but you'd play hell finding one to out shoot it...
Here's a few more photos of the build....
Just out of the form you get an idea of what she is going to look like...
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u301/kirkll/Bows%202014/Dennis%20Smith%20B%20W%20Flatliner/SANY0012.jpg) (http://s171.photobucket.com/user/kirkll/media/Bows%202014/Dennis%20Smith%20B%20W%20Flatliner/SANY0012.jpg.html)
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u301/kirkll/Bows%202014/Dennis%20Smith%20B%20W%20Flatliner/SANY0011.jpg) (http://s171.photobucket.com/user/kirkll/media/Bows%202014/Dennis%20Smith%20B%20W%20Flatliner/SANY0011.jpg.html)
Then we get the boogers knocked off the edges and start getting the profile going here...
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u301/kirkll/Bows%202014/Dennis%20Smith%20B%20W%20Flatliner/SANY0016.jpg) (http://s171.photobucket.com/user/kirkll/media/Bows%202014/Dennis%20Smith%20B%20W%20Flatliner/SANY0016.jpg.html)
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u301/kirkll/Bows%202014/Dennis%20Smith%20B%20W%20Flatliner/SANY0015.jpg) (http://s171.photobucket.com/user/kirkll/media/Bows%202014/Dennis%20Smith%20B%20W%20Flatliner/SANY0015.jpg.html)
It's kind of funny..... i've come up with all kinds of modern methods of getting these things straight using lasers, and full length profile patterns that i could use to mill the limbs straight..... But i still find myself using a string line most of the time.....
Simple and effective.
That's looking great!!
I meant the string jig is simple and effective, not your bow lol
Thanks for the info Kirk. The opening post mentioned "an all out hot rod" so that's why I asked. Looks great!
QuoteOriginally posted by TxAg:
Thanks for the info Kirk. The opening post mentioned "an all out hot rod" so that's why I asked. Looks great!
Best of both worlds here brutha....
Here she is getting a little fine tiller tuning
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u301/kirkll/Bows%202014/Dennis%20Smith%20B%20W%20Flatliner/homestretch2.jpg) (http://s171.photobucket.com/user/kirkll/media/Bows%202014/Dennis%20Smith%20B%20W%20Flatliner/homestretch2.jpg.html)
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u301/kirkll/Bows%202014/Dennis%20Smith%20B%20W%20Flatliner/homestretch3.jpg) (http://s171.photobucket.com/user/kirkll/media/Bows%202014/Dennis%20Smith%20B%20W%20Flatliner/homestretch3.jpg.html)
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u301/kirkll/Bows%202014/Dennis%20Smith%20B%20W%20Flatliner/homestretch5.jpg) (http://s171.photobucket.com/user/kirkll/media/Bows%202014/Dennis%20Smith%20B%20W%20Flatliner/homestretch5.jpg.html)
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u301/kirkll/Bows%202014/Dennis%20Smith%20B%20W%20Flatliner/homestretch6.jpg) (http://s171.photobucket.com/user/kirkll/media/Bows%202014/Dennis%20Smith%20B%20W%20Flatliner/homestretch6.jpg.html)
Looking good!
WoW! That is a beauty...
http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/ridgetopranch/media/imagejpg7_zpsbb255d4f.jpg.html
Well the bow made it. I had just enough time last night to run about 20 arrows through it.
This is a stack of three at 40 yards.. I'm already loving this bow
TxAg
You were wondering about the hot rod thing?
Right now I'm shooting Gold Tip 35/55s with 125gr up front. They fly just as fast as out of my recurve.. At 40 yards mt point on seems to be 6" below my target.
The bow with out tuning is dead in the hand well balanced. I draw 27.5 inches there IPA no stack.
Now for the gun part.tuning woodies and fine tuning the bow
Buy I creamed that last post I hate auto spell correct. And know better than to post not wearing my reading glasses
WOW!!!!
QuoteOriginally posted by petalumapete:
TxAg
You were wondering about the hot rod thing?
Right now I'm shooting Gold Tip 35/55s with 125gr up front. They fly just as fast as out of my recurve.. At 40 yards mt point on seems to be 6" below my target.
The bow with out tuning is dead in the hand well balanced. I draw 27.5 inches there IPA no stack.
Now for the gun part.tuning woodies and fine tuning the bow
Thanks. Bow looks great and looks like you are shooting it great as well. The grip looks comfy also.
Another great looking bow! Congrats Bro.! Kirk is turning out some real shooters these days.
After a little more shooting I still love this bow.
The grip is one of the best I've felt. I asked Kirk for a slight palm swell which he got perfect. Very repeatable grip.
The bow is very forgiving of minor form flaws but lets me know if I'm not paying attention.
Now the woody tuning is another issue!
I had the great idea to try to bare shaft tune. It's kind of frustrating. Does not seem to be worth the effort.
I ended up placing a order with Sherwood for a spine that should work maybe be a little on the weak side and will make up a dozen and tune by length and head weight
Good job Kirk,bow looks great.Very nice arrow group at 20 yards let alone 40. Can you give us some real numbers to look at. Arrow wt, true bow weight at your draw and fps ect. Would love to see it. thanks in advance.
She's a beauty!
Just got home from the long bow safari on monday and haven't had time to check on this thread.... I'm really glad to hear i nailed that grip for you bro. I added just a wee bit more palm swell than i had on your recurve grip without making the whole grip larger.... It felt pretty good when i was shooting her... I wish i would have had that one to shoot at the NALS event. I didn't shoot worth beans with the bow i selected.
Here are a couple more finished photos i got as the sun was going down for you.
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u301/kirkll/Bows%202014/Dennis%20Smith%20B%20W%20Flatliner/SANY0027.jpg) (http://s171.photobucket.com/user/kirkll/media/Bows%202014/Dennis%20Smith%20B%20W%20Flatliner/SANY0027.jpg.html)
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u301/kirkll/Bows%202014/Dennis%20Smith%20B%20W%20Flatliner/SANY0022.jpg) (http://s171.photobucket.com/user/kirkll/media/Bows%202014/Dennis%20Smith%20B%20W%20Flatliner/SANY0022.jpg.html)
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u301/kirkll/Bows%202014/Dennis%20Smith%20B%20W%20Flatliner/SANY0018-1.jpg) (http://s171.photobucket.com/user/kirkll/media/Bows%202014/Dennis%20Smith%20B%20W%20Flatliner/SANY0018-1.jpg.html)
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u301/kirkll/Bows%202014/Dennis%20Smith%20B%20W%20Flatliner/SANY0009-1.jpg) (http://s171.photobucket.com/user/kirkll/media/Bows%202014/Dennis%20Smith%20B%20W%20Flatliner/SANY0009-1.jpg.html)
Gotta love palm swells!
That..THAT is one gorgeous bow!
performance trumps looks in a bow IMO, and Kirks DO perform!
Thanks for putting up more pictures Kirk. I've found my go to long bow. I love shooting this bow. Still haven't had the best of luck tuning the woody but it's deadly with carbon.
Mike I'm not sure of the chrono numbers. I never put to much stock in them. But I'm shooting out to 50 yards with some pretty impressive groups. I'm shooting GoldTips 35/55 with 125gr up front. No BS I'm still gaping the tip 3" low .
Hopefully I'll get my shipment from Sherwood soon and get some proper woodiys
Mike,
The actual test results on this bow using a shooting machine were about 190 @10 gpp & 195 @ 9gpp. at 27.5" draw. I'm quite certain a guy will get better speed with a longer draw length out of this design given the same gpp. I've had some of these hit 200 fps at 10gp with a 30" draw.... but it's rare.... The black glass with single carbon back seem to be the best performance, but i've had all glass bows ring the 200 fps bell a few time too
All these bows test a little differently. The different cores, type of glass or carbon used, clear glass over veneers, vs black or brown glass... It all makes a difference. but even building two bows identical you can get varied test results.... There is just no explanation for that....Kirk
QuoteOriginally posted by Kirkll:
Mike,
The actual test results on this bow using a shooting machine were about 190 @10 gpp & 195 @ 9gpp. at 27.5" draw. I'm quite certain a guy will get better speed with a longer draw length out of this design given the same gpp. I've had some of these hit 200 fps at 10gp with a 30" draw.... but it's rare.... The black glass with single carbon back seem to be the best performance, but i've had all glass bows ring the 200 fps bell a few time too
All these bows test a little differently. The different cores, type of glass or carbon used, clear glass over veneers, vs black or brown glass... It all makes a difference. but even building two bows identical you can get varied test results.... There is just no explanation for that....Kirk
oooops! double post
Thanks Kirk, That is VERY FAST for that set up at 49# and in a non-takedown longbow. Great Job. Thanks for your info.
QuoteOriginally posted by Kirkll:
Mike,
The actual test results on this bow using a shooting machine were about 190 @10 gpp & 195 @ 9gpp. at 27.5" draw. I'm quite certain a guy will get better speed with a longer draw length out of this design given the same gpp. I've had some of these hit 200 fps at 10gp with a 30" draw.... but it's rare.... The black glass with single carbon back seem to be the best performance, but i've had all glass bows ring the 200 fps bell a few time too
All these bows test a little differently. The different cores, type of glass or carbon used, clear glass over veneers, vs black or brown glass... It all makes a difference. but even building two bows identical you can get varied test results.... There is just no explanation for that....Kirk
Does that mean someone like me with a 32 in draw, could be seriously knocking on the door of 200 fps @ 10 gpp? Just curious.......that sounds really fast. Scott.
32" draw?? i think you might just be the real bigfoot!! no matter what bow you shoot its going to be fast, wow...32" Awesome bow you got there Denis, love the lines, the wood, everything about it!
Beautiful looks like it was made from solid wood-love that look! Great performance too!
Hey Scott,
A 32" draw can definitely get excellent performance, but the poundage of the bow can make a big difference.
Everyone seems to think the power stroke of the longer draw length is what makes the difference, and it does help a lot. But in reality, the stored energy in the bow is lost or gained in the transfer from the string to the arrow shaft.
a quick example without going into a lot of tech talk would be this.... Take a 64" Flatliner 50@30" bow with excellent preload that stacks up at about 31" and shoot a 500 grain arrow drawing that full 30".....Lets say we hit 195 fps @ 10 gpp.
Now we take a 66" model that is 50@32" that doesn't stack till you hit 33" and shoot the same arrow through it.... I would be really surprised if we got the same 195 fps. it would be close, but i doubt very much it would be faster.
The reason being is that you have more limb mass traveling forward with the 66" model, and the preload, or tension on the string at brace is less than the 64" 50@30" bow. Just because you have a longer power stroke, it still comes down to stopping the limbs clean, & transferring the energy into the arrow shaft.
another good example would be taking a HH style bow at 40# and testing it with 400 grain arrows, and taking a 60# HH and test it at 600. I can guarantee the 60# bow is going to be at least 15-20 fps faster just due to the higher preload.
With the Flatliner design. i can build these things draw length specific to a certain degree and maximize performance at any draw length by balancing the mass limb weight to the bows draw weight. But unfortunately the length of the bow restricts how far you can draw this limb design. a 32" draw would require a 66" length, and we'd need at least 55-60# to get the preload required to ring the 200 fps bell. That & a little luck....200 fps at 10 gpp is a tough one to pull off at any draw length.
Thanks for the explanation. One of these days I need to make a trip over to the wet side. Scott
Today I finally finished tuning woody's for this bow. I couldn't be happier.
I ended up going with Sherwood 50/55 shafts cut to 29 3/4 inches with 100gr up front.
Rockets!
Before any one ask's I have not put them on a grain scale yet. But these wood arrows are zipping along just as fast and flat as the carbon.
For a long bow this baby hits with some authority.I have no doubt of blowing right through game even with this light of an arrow.
Now that I've had a few weeks to shoot this bow I continue to be impressed. The workmanship is spot on. I find no flaws, all the wood joints transition smoothly. Kirk is using Thunder Bird Epoxy for his finish's leaving a hard as nails finish.
It's smooth as silk on the draw. No stacking at all.
There is no hand shock. The bow does not jump.It sits guietly at the shot. It is one of the most quiet bows I've shot both indoors and outside.The sound is not so much a thunk as it is a swish sound.
At 20 yards this bow hits exactly where I am looking making it very easy to stack arrows.
I would say any one sitting on the fence looking for that go to long bow take a good long look at Big Foot. You will be suprised.
Oh yea, If I sound like a fan your absolutely right! In my opinion Kirks bows set the standard all others aspire to.