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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Arctic Hunter on May 29, 2014, 01:40:00 AM
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I have been reading a lot about high FOC percentage. I just ordered some new limbs for my PSA II and should have them next week. They are going to be 53#@30" (my draw length). I have decided to try Grizzlystik momentum shafts. Most likely 330's, I'm thinking around 300 grains upfront, point and all, but can't help but think I'm going to have issues getting the arrow stiff enough with my 30" draw. Does anybody here shoot a similar set up and what arrow/tip combination do you find works well for you?
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I will be following this thread closely. I just bought some grizzlystik Alaskans, then promptly hurt myself at work and can't shoot for another couple weeks. I apologize for not having a lot of info to share, however, I would call Alaska bowhunter supply and ask for Garret. He is a super nice guy and loves to talk bowhunting. He can get you on the right track as far as tuning goes. Hope that helps.
Jake
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It depends on how much FOC you want.To get maximum FOC AND try to keep overall weight down,you need the lightest shaft in the proper stiffness you can find.I don't have experience with the Grizzly shafts but even the Momentums aren't light and they are extremely expensive.
I draw 29" and shoot bows 53-55# at that draw length.With a black,.340 Gold Tip cut to 30",and app. 400 grains up front(point,adapter,insert and aluminum footing)I get a 709 gr arrow that is 27% FOC,is tough as can be and costs 1/3 the price of the Momentums.
Another setup uses Victory V Force,HV .350's.These are much lighter @ 6.4 GPI.30" shaft,app. 425 gr up front,makes a 655 gr arrow that is 32% FOC.This arrow out-penetrates the heavier,27% Gold Tip but they aren't as durable.No issues on game so far but I won't use them for stump shooting.
It looks like the momentums with 300 gr points would yield you about 25% FOC and about 730 grs overall.If you think they aren't quite stiff enough,add thickness to your side plate.
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You might try the CE Maxima Red's. They are the most tolerant arrow I've shot.
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go with a 400 or 300 spline, 100 grain insert and 200 to 220 in the head. you'll be ok.
I shoot 400's with 100 grain insert and 220 grain head at 28.5 draw 55 lbs on a 31 inch arrow. works great.
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I'm leaving in the Manana, for Namibia. I'm Shooting: 60"- 60# @28( draw lngth. 28" ) A&H ACS- G/t Kinectic Hunters .300 spine. 28/3/4 " 100gr, inserts , 250 gr, V.P>A> penetrators. 2/1/2" A&A fletching w/ 1/8 " turbulator. PERFECT FLIGHT out to 30yds. Go to Tuffheads website.. Read/ watch Dr, Ed Asbys presentation. Can't Explain it MORE than That.
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In reference to arrow spine for your BW I'm shooting Gold Tip XT Hunter 340's cut 29" 50gr. brass insert, 300gr. point, 627gr. Finished arrow. These bare shaft as near perfect as my form will allow. Shot from the BW listed below drawn 27"ish.
Your 30" draw length will for sure eat up some spine.
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The 30" draw is what has me worried. I'm shooting 31" FMJ' 340's now with 175 grains up front to get good arrow flight with a bare shaft. Thinking about 300 grains up front has me wondering. I'm hoping a 330 arrow designed for high FOC will be okay.
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Oh and I'm drawing around 57# at my draw length.
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Like JimB said, if your arrow is too weak, you can always add thickness to your side plate and things will straighten out nicely. Try it, you'll see.
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GT kinetic is a 250 spine. Or a black eagle carnivore at a 250 spine. The black eagle you can get a 50 grain brass insert for I'm not sure about the GT.
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Many times when trying to build a UEFOC arrow it is necessary to build out the strike plate in order to use a lighter spined and lighter gpi arrow to reach into the higher FOC values. If you haven't seen the video where Dr. Ashby explains how weight at the nock end of the shaft effects the foc you need to. I think there is a link on the Tuffhead website to it. In the video he places several paper clips on the front of an extremely UEFOC "arrow" and the balance point does not change, but when just one paper clip is added to the rear of the "shaft" the arrows balance point is largely effected.
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Thanks for all the help. Seems there are a lot of options. Just wish I had the money to try them all. How many use UEFOC arrows with the A&A fletching?
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Also, what works well to build the side plate out? I have heard of using two sided carpet tape, but have never tried it.
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You carpet tape,under your side plate would be convenient as you can add a layer at a time till you are dialed in.
My fletch aren't quite as small as the A+A but are fairly small at 3".My current setup is 36% FOC,504 grs up front,using a 300 gr Tuffhead and the finished weight is 728 grs.
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a140/jbrandenburg/BearSeason2013015.jpg) (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/jbrandenburg/media/BearSeason2013015.jpg.html)
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Jim,
Whats your draw wt?
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Those arrows are tuned to 3 different bows that are 50-53# @28 and I think I draw 29",so maybe 52-55#.That sounds like an awfully heavy arrow and I guess it is but I'm real used to them and like the penetration I'm getting since I had to drop weight from 60-66#.I don't have to think about the shot out to 20 yds but at 25,I gap shoot and at 30,I'm point on.
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Jim,
Thanks for the help. That's just the kind of info in looking for. What kind of arrows are those and how much did you have to build the strike plate out?
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Those are Victory V Force HV .350's,cut to 29".I didn't touch the strike plate.When you get up to 30% or so FOC,it becomes very important to keep the rear as light as possible.A few grains off the rear has way more influence on FOC,at that point than does an equal amount of weight added to the front.Shedding 10 grs off the back can be equal to 4 or 5 times that weight,up front.
Also,X amount of weight behind the insert,doesn't increase FOC as much as the same amount of weight in the point.I use 100 gr inserts but keep all the rest of the up front weight,in the point.
It is a simple matter to make custom weight heads using glue on points,steel adapters and if needed,some lead shot or tungsten putty.
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Jim B what are you using as footings on your arrows. Or is that footing on the arrows?
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Jim B what are you using as footings on your arrows. Or is that footing on the arrows?
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It is two footings.The smaller is a 2013.The larger,I took a 2219 or 2216 and bored the inside out to 5/16",to fit over the 2013.The Tuffhead has a wide ferrule,so the second footing was to fill that gap.I also always put a 1/4" one on the nock end,in this case,2013.
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Thanks for all the help. Anybody else have an arrow/tip/insert combination that works well for them?
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JimB how tuff are those arrows? Have you had any problems with them breaking easy.
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JimB how tuff are those arrows? Have you had any problems with them breaking easy.
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Not as tough as I would like.I have had no problems on game and they have survived some hard,frontal hits on hard objects but several have broken on side slap shots.I've broken several like that and some not such hard hits.I try to never stump with them for that reason.I have yet to break a Gold Tip,after 6 years,not even side impacts.
I did shoot two Victory arrows that made straight,frontal hits on rocks and one judo was destroyed and one 200 gr Grizzly was bent so bad that it couldn't be fixed and those arrows were unharmed.All my carbons are footed.