For normal sized game like deer? Have you had bad blood trail experiences? Is there a positive to shooting say a 1.125" head vs a 1.5" head or a multi-blade.
I shoot Zwickey Deltas, 1 3/8 inches wide (fairly wide for a 2-blade) and STOS 1 1/8 inches wide (fairly narrow) and Abowyer single bevel Wapitis ( 1 1/4 inches wide), in the middle. All razor sharp. Good blood trails, all. Most times I don't need them. I see the animal fall. Slmost any two-blade head will completely penetrate deer size critters if they're sharp and the arrow is flying straight.
I shoot a narrow broadhead because they are just more accurate for me. I feel like I have had good luck with them. I doubt that an extra quarter inch in width makes much difference.
Having Bear Razorhead flashback?
My first trad kill was with an original
grizzly 125gr.
I have had more bad blood trail experiences with broadheads that did NOT give me an exit,no matter how many blades it had. Multi-blades and wide 2 blades work great, if you have enough horsepower to RELIABLY get them out the other side from all angles. Since I have dropped in bow weight, I'm back with standard 2 blades like Zwickey Eskimos, and Magnus II. The Zwickey No Mercys are probably gonna get a another look too.
Have used some narrow ones. Had less than great experience with one of them. Then switched to wide 4 blade heads for deer and have had really good experiences. Even on marginal hits (which is probably the only time it matters) the big 4 blades have helped me bring home game.
We have killed a bunch of deer with Hills. A couple of times the blood trails were scarce, but steady enough to let us find the deer. Some years back I met a couple of compounders file sharpening 140 Hills. Talking with them, they explained that with their faster bows the Walmart mechanicals did not function properly and their arrows had a speed limit for being stable. They were convinced that the filed sharpened 140 Hills were the best flying deadliest broadheads that they had ever found. Later that week they borrowed my deer cart, that particular blood trail leading to a fat doe was short and massive.
When I first started shooting the GK Silverflame heads, all they had was 1 1/8" wide heads. I loved the looks and flight of these heads. I proceeded to kill several nice critters with these heads. Two particular deer made me almost go to something else. I shot two nice deer in one season and made textbook shots on both bucks. When I went to trail these deer, I had nearly no blood on the ground. In both cases, the deer only made it 40-50yds and I found both. After confirming that the shots were as good as I thought they were, I could not believe that the blood trails were as bad as they were.
I emailed GK and asked Marcus if they made a wider head because I was concerned about the lack of a good blood trail. That was right when they came out with the XL (1.5" wide). He sent me a pack to try out.
I have not kept any scientific records, but I can tell you that the extra 3/8" makes a huge difference. The blood trails with the XL's are consistently better than with the standard 1 1/8" model.
I still have and use both size heads. I use the wider heads for deer, small pigs, and any critters in that class. I use the narrow heads for large pigs or tough critters that I might worry about penetration with.
I really think a guy should shoot the most draw weight he can shoot well, with the widest head he can consistently get entry AND exit holes with.
Bisch
I used to shoot deer with Grizzlies and similar heads. They were very lethal no doubt, the deer seldom went far but blood trails were inconsistent. Since my arrows were going through the deer so fast it looked like they weren't even slowing down, I started shooting bigger heads. I figured I was wasting cutting power in the dirt.
The longer I hunt deer the bigger my broadheads get. Now I shoot mostly multi-blades or BIG two blades like a Simmons, or Tusker/Zwickey Deltas at deer. I still get two holes from my 50-ish pound bows so why not?
I have put a few narrow heads into the opposite shoulder or angled up into the narrow part of the rib cage. Dead deer but some tough tracking jobs in thick stuff or wet leaves.
I have since had much better results with larger heads. Mostly 1 1/4" VPA's and Treesharks.
This pic is from a Treeshark that angled up forward on a quartering deer. I only got one hole from all the bones the head hit but the trail looked like this for 100 yrds.
(http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee391/rjwalton8/20131020_112233.jpg) (http://s1225.photobucket.com/user/rjwalton8/media/20131020_112233.jpg.html)
Sometimes things don't go as planned and I'm a firm believer that big heads have saved my butt a few times.
Anyone else?
I've hunted with different weight Helix 2-blades that are from 100, 125, and 200 grains at 1 1/8" and 1 1/4". Great luck with them.
Used to shoot Zwickey Eskimos, and the Hunters Head much like a Hill. Had no problem on the blood trail if the arrow was in the right spot. But now I shoot the Simmons Safari and Interceptor and like the trails even better.
I used to shoot Zwickey Eskimos, now shoot Grizzly Kodiaks. No problems with them.
I have been shooting both 1.25 wide magnus II 2 blades and 1.5 wide magnus I 2 blades for 20 years. the 1.5 wide for sure leaves a bigger blood trail in most cases and in a couple cases saved me by just nicking arteries (once a jugular on a deflection, once a femorial on a bad shot, and on a double lung hit that was almost a one lung hit by nicking the bottom of the far lung).
I have not shot the narrower magnus in about 10 years because i like the wider ones better. Only times I dont get a full pass thru on any game is when i hit the oppisite shoulder. but i never got full pass throughs on opposite shoulders with the narrow ones either.
Been shooting Zwickey 2 blade Eskimos since '79 and also the 2 blade Deltas. I also like the Schulz Hunter Head.
I used schulz hunter heads on 3 deer, all died quickly bit no blood trail to follow. (I saw them go down)The last one went through so fast the deer didn't know it was hit. It snorted at me and took 2 jumps and down. When I shoot 2 blades now it's zwicky deltas or ribtek 145's both leave excellent blood trails. Lately I've been using WW with good success.
I have seen with narrow heads where the blood trail is very sparse for the first bit and then gets heavier down the trail. In those situations where a prominent initial blood trail is more important than complete penetration, I switch to a large Deadhead or a Herters four blade.
STOS 160 grain work fine for me - clear thru a buck and into the ground from a 44# recurve.
The only reason I would ever go back to a narrow 2 bld. head is if I get to where I could only draw a very light (less than 40lb) bow. What possible advantage is there with a smaller wound channel ? I shoot three blades with 50lbs or less and get pass thrus on deer as the rule.
howard hill 160s fly like a field point.
Jeff:
I have also shot the Grizzly 125 grain single bevel and they fly like field points. Getting the angle correct during sharpening is key to a sharp head but with a little practice and light strokes, a Grizzly will shoot thru a deer like butter.
I've had good luck with 1 1/8" by 2 5/8" Tusker Concord single bevel. I'm trying Concord 300gr double bevel this season.
I like field point flight and the lack of noise I get with slim long non-vented heads. I haven't killed a ton of deer like some here have, but when it's been descent shot placement my experience is the broadhead used hasn't mattered. I wanted to try/like the big simmons sharks to get more blood on the ground in case of poor hits, but couldn't get passed the flight noise.
Sharp grizzlys (el grande/kodiak)give me absolutely sick blood trails.
(http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww260/overspined/Tradgang/149A19D4-EFC8-4DF2-8F1D-CE8DEF010CE8-178-0000001A8A10C802.jpg) (http://s725.photobucket.com/user/overspined/media/Tradgang/149A19D4-EFC8-4DF2-8F1D-CE8DEF010CE8-178-0000001A8A10C802.jpg.html)
Not all are this good, but most are more than adequate.
I use the Grizzly's and Tuskers. I have come to believe that the 3 to 1 ratio and single bevel style is far more critical than width.
QuoteOriginally posted by Anointed Archer:
I use the Grizzly's and Tuskers. I have come to believe that the 3 to 1 ratio and single bevel style is far more critical than width.
Are you referring to blood trails, penetration, or both?
In my mind a narrow two blade would leave a little more blood if it was single bevel and rotates.....kinda the best of both worlds. I've only shot a porcupine and a guinea with a single bevel, though. Both stayed put.
There Is only benefits in shooting wider BH in most of case (except for buffalo, hippos, giraffe or elephant ...). Of course you may brake ( but not sure you will) more easily shoulder bone with narrow 2 blade but bony volume and area is much smaller than soft tissues volume and area when you look at a critter in fair shot angle. So you have a higher odd to get a soft tissue bad shot rather a bony one.
Regarding to penetration at shot distance with fair bow poundage difference is not that much . At least in a close-to-new crossbow target that is rather soft tissue high resistance model: all in a 1/4 " overall difference if any, and here the less penetrating arrow was with the lesser sharp BH ...
Here are 4 types of BH all razor sharp except the 1 1/4" 3 blade VPA just factory sharp out of box(not bad but not enough for my standards)
As you can see minor difference,
3 blades 1,5" big Jim 300 gr (re sharpened so 290 gr)
3 blade VPA 1 1/4" 250 gr
2 blade VPA 1 1/8" 250 gr
2 blade Magnus 1 160gr+ 125gr adaptator
Same 32" GT traditional 300 shaft
Yellow feathered arrows are 695 gr +\\- 10 gr and red one 720g gr ( big Jim BH on it) and 300 to 310 gr total point weight
20 meters (22 yards) shot with same bow, tutu EX 59# same archer.
(http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx225/hybridbowhunter/imagejpg3_zps80287f22.jpg) (http://s758.photobucket.com/user/hybridbowhunter/media/imagejpg3_zps80287f22.jpg.html)
(http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx225/hybridbowhunter/imagejpg2_zpsb0f4e5c8.jpg) (http://s758.photobucket.com/user/hybridbowhunter/media/imagejpg2_zpsb0f4e5c8.jpg.html)
(http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx225/hybridbowhunter/imagejpg1_zpsc6125604.jpg) (http://s758.photobucket.com/user/hybridbowhunter/media/imagejpg1_zpsc6125604.jpg.html)
(http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx225/hybridbowhunter/imagejpg1_zps7e0b06c0.jpg) (http://s758.photobucket.com/user/hybridbowhunter/media/imagejpg1_zps7e0b06c0.jpg.html)
I am switching to 2 blade this year. I wanted single bezel and good mechanical advantage. I bought some Zwickey No Mercy, Meathead 190 gr. by Tuffhead and Grizzly 155 gr. to play with weight and bh head combos. The Badgers also looked very tough and come in screw in type.
I think this 2 blade, single bezel, bone splitter, massive wound, great blood trail thing is legit! :thumbsup:
TxAg - yes I was referencing both penetration and blood trail. I am completely sold on single bevel.
After a lot of deer with a lot of heads I prefer a narrow razor sharp head in most cases.
My biggest reason for this is reaction from deer. I've read a lot of places you hunt deer are really on high alert and ducking. They are not where I hunt. In the last few years I would say close to 60%+ of deer I shoot have little reaction arrow goes thru them and they do a few hops or run 15 yds and stop and start looking around. Only had 1 ever do that with a multy blade. And that was a buck that had is nose in a doe back side
This doe was standing and as I shot took a step. I hit her thru the liver. I was using a heavy skinny arrow and tuffhead. She went maybe 25yds. Stopped and stood there for a minute. The laid down and died. It took 5 mins from hit til she died. If she had been running full out it could have been a long tracking
(http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu36/L82HUNT/photo-15.jpg) (http://s631.photobucket.com/user/L82HUNT/media/photo-15.jpg.html)
Few weeks later. A grizzly 160. Hit the little fella jumped straight up hit the ground as started looking around
(http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu36/L82HUNT/photo-14.jpg) (http://s631.photobucket.com/user/L82HUNT/media/photo-14.jpg.html)
Few days later shot with same setup. Deer went 30 yds after shot and stopped looked around and fell
(http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu36/L82HUNT/photo-13.jpg) (http://s631.photobucket.com/user/L82HUNT/media/photo-13.jpg.html)
Maybe it's been luck but just real happy with the small heads
They can produce good blood trails. Placement then sharpness will lead to good blood trails
(http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu36/L82HUNT/Mobile%20Uploads/photo-7.jpg) (http://s631.photobucket.com/user/L82HUNT/media/Mobile%20Uploads/photo-7.jpg.html)
(http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu36/L82HUNT/01-13-08_0829.jpg) (http://s631.photobucket.com/user/L82HUNT/media/01-13-08_0829.jpg.html)
180 grain silver flame standard size
(http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu36/L82HUNT/Photo0020.jpg) (http://s631.photobucket.com/user/L82HUNT/media/Photo0020.jpg.html)