As an additional anchor, what are your thoughts on this? Good idea or bad idea? I've been doing it lately and feel like it's helping my consistency by reaching full draw. I know there may be problems while hunting and wearing gloves, but I don't think that would affect me as I've never wore gloves in the past (use hand warmers in my pockets when it's real cold and that's not too often where I'm at). Thanks
Three Fingers Jones did.
QuoteOriginally posted by TOEJAMMER:
Three Fingers Jones did.
:laughing:
Alot of guys used to do that. I think I read that Fred used this methoud too.
I'm no where near forcefully allowing the BH to touch my hand. I basically started doing it by accident. Having a 28.5" draw and normally using 29.5" BOP arrows I never encountered this. Recently I had some arrows cut 29 1/4" BOP and when I do everything right, (back muscles and expand lungs) the BH will slightly touch back of my index finger and I release. Just wondering if many others do this.
I am in the same boat, and scared to death. Not of touching my fingers, I don't sharpen the backs, but of drawing OVER a finger and at release watching it fall from the treestand in slow motion !
ChuckC
So bad idea? Lol. I was hoping to try something different before trying a clicker.
I thought about this I think Ferguson talks about it in his book. I was curious how, unless you practiced with BH's , how do you simulate it in practice. I was scared too , so I dropped it.
Chuck, you sure paint a pretty picture. As far as touching your finger with the arrow head goes, I don't do that but I think it's a good idea. I wonder why more people don't do that instead of using a clicker.
"Dead-ringer" . . . is that a ring finger or a doorbell finger?. Either way- dead! LOL. Too many other ways to encourage full draw. I would not start that habit.
Try just closing your eyes and "feeling" the full draw. With your eyes closed you will find/notice a number of other secondary senses/markers that affirm full draw. I used a clicker for a decade- found this exercise to be invaluable and now have "built-in" clickers.
Dan in KS
I would think if you used real big broadheads like Centaurs or Simmons with back edge unsharpened that this method wouldn't be a problem? I shoot full length arrows so I will likely never use this method.
I would not, If the broadhead is touching your hand there is going to be some degree of pressure
on the nock pulling forward, in a hunting situation I think it would be very easy to draw
the string a slight bit too much and pull your nock off the string leading to disaster. just my
opinion.
Trad101, that is a thought I haven't thought of and a darned good one.
QuoteOriginally posted by TRAD101:
I would not, If the broadhead is touching your hand there is going to be some degree of pressure
on the nock pulling forward, in a hunting situation I think it would be very easy to draw
the string a slight bit too much and pull your nock off the string leading to disaster. just my
opinion.
QuoteOriginally posted by PaulDeadringer29:
Trad101, that is a thought I haven't thought of and a darned good one.
Agreed...food for thought.
QuoteOriginally posted by TRAD101:
I would not, If the broadhead is touching your hand there is going to be some degree of pressure
on the nock pulling forward, in a hunting situation I think it would be very easy to draw
the string a slight bit too much and pull your nock off the string leading to disaster. just my
opinion.
This is the reason I won't do it. I've tried it in the yard and it works but I don't trust myself to feel for that broadhead in a shot sequence on game. I'd likely crank her back, pull the nock off the string, blow a shot and perhaps blow up a bow.
Fred Bear did this. I do so as well. I set up so that it takes every little bit of expansion/back tension possible at the end of my shot cycle for the broadhead to touch my knuckle. I don't think I could pull the big Simmons over my finger anyways.
I do it...
Many archers of old did it also.
I shoot the longbow and feel I get better arrow flight from having just the right sized arrows and feeling the BH is an extra draw check as stated..
A couple of years ago, I had a nice set of cedars that were just about a 1/2" too short for my draw. As a result, the back of the broad head touched my finger. They shot just fine, so I decided to use them on a hunt. Once.
The first time I had a nice fat doe walk within range, I slowly drew back, but just a little too far. The broad head caught my finger and pulled the arrow off the string. Whooops.
Now, I make sure I have at least an inch worth of clearance.
I do it all the time, align my simmons to where the blades are vertical..... you would have to really overdraw and use a lot of pull to get the blade to jump over your finger????
I draw the broadhead to my knuckle; have been for a few years now. It works well as a sort of draw check and has been a major contributor to overcoming my target panic. I also saw an immediate increase in my consistency and subsequently my confidence because of it.
As far as pulling the arrow from the string when bumping a knuckle- never had it happen (that I can remember) in thousands of shots. I shoot three under as well. It works for me...to each their own.
I would not do it. I am a pretty cautious guy and like others said above I could just see over drawing just a bit and pulling the arrow off the string and dry firing possibly blowing up a bow or worse cutting off a finger.
Not me, I don't like the idea of pulling a broadhead back to touch my fingers. If I got excited & drew just a bit past my normal anchor I'd get cut for sure...... :scared:
I did it for a while, until I tried new broad heads with sharpened rear edge. Only did it the once after that.
I see a couple of folks saying that Fred Bear did this. I have seen interviews with him where he explains that he basically had one sight picture and just drew the bow farther for longer shots. I don't see how both of these things would work together.
Paul,
I do the same thing with my broadhead and have for the last 4 years. It's a great draw check and I use it as a trigger for my release. Unless you are shooting some crazy skinny broadhead or trying to shoot an arrow that is too short I don't see it is a problem. To cut your finger with the broadhead you would have to draw back so far and so forcefully that you would be pulling through the back of the broadhead. If the back of the broadhead angles forward then I guess it would be feasible to cut your hand but those aren't very good broadheads to use with this technique anyway.
All I feel is the back of the broadhead which isn't sharp at all. I shoot a simmons landshark and safari. They both will contact my finger because the back of the head is perpendicular to the end of the arrow rather than angling forward.
If it helps you then I say use it. It has worked for me and I don't see any risk in it unless you have a 27 inch arrow and you draw to 30. Guys talk about getting excited when they are shooting at game and overdrawing the arrow and cutting their finger. Personally, I'm stretched out towards my limit of my draw anyway so I'm not sure it would be physiologically possible for me to overdraw that forcefully. My draw is slow and smooth rather than sudden and forceful like a person might see on a compound shooter.
Just my two cents.
CK
I'm surprised that no trad historians mention that this method was commonly used by old England longbow archers as a type of clicker method with their iron broad heads.
I have my heads set up vertical...and dont use it as draw check as much to make sure I am not OVER DRAWING during heat of moment. I have only felt it on my knuckle a couple times in 20 years. You would have to be pretty unaware, spastic and out of control to pull it completely back UP the trailing edge and onto your finger to the rear.....and then to still not notice and release the arrow to slice going forward.
Might say at that point...maybe you have bigger issues than the broadhead position and need to question your use of sharp tools or dangerous equipment like automobiles or power saws as well. LOL
Don't think Fred Bear did it, but Howard Hill writes that he did.
I don't know. There is the possibility of pulling the arrow off the string, of course, if one overdraws a little.
With all the emphasis nowadays on back tension and pulling through the release, it seems the likelihood for that happening would be greater.
Even though some three under shooters make this work, I would think the propensity to do this would be greater for them because the arrow isn't held onto the string between their fingers.
But, whatever floats your boat. :dunno:
There is a lot of speculation here by those who have not tried/used this method. To over draw your bow so much that you unseat the arrow from the string or cut your finger with the broadhead edge is not liable to happen at all.
As in properly using a clicker device you come to full draw and then "expand" into full extension. This movement is hardly more than 1/16" if that when adjusted correctly.
If you have a half inch or inch or even two inches left that you can accidently draw into then you need to work on your form because you are severely short drawing all the time.
Remember, you don't draw the string with your arm. You draw with the back.
That's not to mention that you are definitely under bowed.
I use Magnus Stingers which are sharpened on the back of the head and I maintain them in a razor like condition on all edges. And yet I commonly draw the arrow until the back edge touches my knuckle. Haven't cut myself once... ever!
Watch a good target archer release his shot using a clicker. The arrow is drawn smoothly until it stops naturally with a fraction left before the the clicker drops. Then the chest and back are expanded to achieve that last fraction. The clicker drops and the shot is away.
I'd have to say that if cutting yourself on the broadhead is a real concern then one needs to see a good shooting coach because the shot process is not under control.
NOT I!
2 blade BH's ALWAYS mounted horizontal for me i.e. flat over the hand if I were to draw that far. G. Fred Asbell turned me on to that 25 years ago!
Kris
I tried it for quite awile using the BH back as a reference "clicker" for expansion as Charlie talked about in his post. I got my arrow just the right length for a minor expansion, the BH would touch my pointer finger (psycho-trigger), and away the arrow went. It worked for awhile. I did not like shooting the shorter arrow, and at that time I was trying the method, I was really struggling with anticipation of the shot. I did not like the method as any anticipation led to me moving my bowhand. TP is no fun. I found a better psychotrigger that works with any arrow and any arrow length.
I think I'd try to figure something safer for a trigger sensation, maybe put a small rubber band on the shaft a little behind the broadhead (or field point, for that matter), though I expect it would be kind of a pain to do that shot after shot.
There are other options like-what's wrong with finger to mouth?
And how would you practice this when not shooting BH?
QuoteOriginally posted by Bjorn:
And how would you practice this when not shooting BH?
I was just asking myself the same question.
Byron Ferguson said he did in his book "Become the Arrow", so his draw doesn't collapse. I haven't tried it.
I thought about how it would be possible without BH's as well. Maybe an opportunity for one of us to come up with an arrow installed draw check? Lol
I do. Never bothered me, as long as it's the back of the broadhead and not the front. It just barely touches.
I always held my finger up with my compound too, with no problem, until a friend noticed I was within a hair of the sharp side on release. Then I became aware of it. Only cut myself once. The arrow swung out a little and rested behind my finger at full draw. I was screwed, couldn't release and couldn't let down without it slicing.
Nope, not me. The BH doesn't come anywhere near my hand. Besides I like a long arrow in my sight picture.
So how DO the guys who use it as a drawcheck do it with field points?
BTW since I'm a doubter I pulled my old copy of "The Archer's Bible" and there was old Fred pulling the BH into his hand in several shots.
Adrenelin might make me overdraw. I have seem
N others do it
Interesting to see the mileage this topic is getting. A couple thoughts here.
I shoot field tips that are 250 grains. They are larger in diameter than the arrow, which is all I need.
Second, I got a first hand exposure to adrenaline this last fall when I shot my first bull (a monster at that). If anything, I am more aware of the little details while under pressure. I am really doubtful that I could manage to pull the big Simmons into position to cut my finger. But that is just my experience. I will continue to do so.
The thing that scares me the most is the possibility mentioned several times that I could accidentally pull the nock off the string if it was even the least bit loose.
Helped me with trying to get the same draw length at different tree shot angles,etc. Best draw length check ever came up with ever in my mind. Hill and others used it. Went with a zwickey no mercy with a straight back to help. I come to the same positive draw every time but keep expanding by pulling my shoulder blades together until I feel the touch and it's gone. Field pts. are tougher and I sometimes cut the back edge with two cuts 3/16ths apart on the back edge and bend it out for a touch point or I just shoot broadheads more. Works for me but maybe not for you.
QuoteOriginally posted by Bjorn:
There are other options like-what's wrong with finger to mouth?
And how would you practice this when not shooting BH?
:clapper: :clapper:
I use it because "finger to corner of mouth" doesn't stop target panic. It is entirely possible to reach your "anchor" without actually expanding through the shot. Pulling to anchor doesn't necessarily equate to solid back tension. It can lead to a collapse on the shot. I'm not a fan of a clicker, so I use the broadhead.
When I used field points this is what I tried. I used oversize (23/64 on a 11/32 shaft)and had the shelf where I could feel the arrow shaft like a self bow.
When I felt the ridge of the back of field point I would shoot. I never really liked it that much and abandoned the method.
I can see where the pioneers shooting self bows and the arrow basically riding on their pointer finger could excel at this method. I always wondered about Fred Bear and the reason he had his bows with the side plate built out and very little shelf was because he "cut his teeth" shooting english style longbows and there was a "feel" to the arrow being on the finger.
This is a pretty interesting thread. I'm learning how others shoot, just because I do it one way doesn't mean that way will work for others. Keep 'em coming folks I'm learning how others shoot & what works for others.
I'd rather use index finger to crook of my mouth and hen feather to tip of nose simultainously....a lot safer...jmo
QuoteOriginally posted by Charlie Lamb:
There is a lot of speculation here by those who have not tried/used this method. To over draw your bow so much that you unseat the arrow from the string or cut your finger with the broadhead edge is not liable to happen at all.
As in properly using a clicker device you come to full draw and then "expand" into full extension. This movement is hardly more than 1/16" if that when adjusted correctly.
If you have a half inch or inch or even two inches left that you can accidently draw into then you need to work on your form because you are severely short drawing all the time.
Remember, you don't draw the string with your arm. You draw with the back.
That's not to mention that you are definitely under bowed.
I use Magnus Stingers which are sharpened on the back of the head and I maintain them in a razor like condition on all edges. And yet I commonly draw the arrow until the back edge touches my knuckle. Haven't cut myself once... ever!
Watch a good target archer release his shot using a clicker. The arrow is drawn smoothly until it stops naturally with a fraction left before the the clicker drops. Then the chest and back are expanded to achieve that last fraction. The clicker drops and the shot is away.
I'd have to say that if cutting yourself on the broadhead is a real concern then one needs to see a good shooting coach because the shot process is not under control.
This is spot on.... If you are pulling the arrow off the string, or over drawing enough to cut your finger you need to go back to the bail, start slowing down your draw, and get a grip on your adrenaline surges.
Wow... Somehow I missed Charlie's post. That encapsulates everything I wanted to express but couldn't articulate, and then some!