I have only shot wood arrows once. That was this past weekend at the Louisiana State Longbow Championship(Sterling Harold Memorial Archery Tournament).
A great friend of mine, Steve Raggio, let me borrow his just for the fun of shooting another class(Modern Recurve, Traditional recurve, Modern Longbow, Traditional Recurve). Well, suprisingly, I shot really really well with them. Well enough that I accidentally won the state longbow championship.
It made me want to get some woodies of my own, but I have NO IDEA where to even start. I am assuming that getting into building them can be very expensive, especially since I am starting at ground zero.
I was also wondering about the spine of them. I was shooting a #51@28 longbow that I build a few years ago and the arrows were spined around #65(he had it written on the arrows). I was also wondering how consistent you find them to be. I did notice that some of the arrows would shoot higher than the others. Some may shoot left, right. So i basically found a good arrow and tried to shoot the whole round with it.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Wood arrows are awesome, I would get in touch with David at Wildernerss Custom arrows, he will get you close, and sell you a test kit spine range.
That way you can get the exact spine you need, his arrows are fantastic, and his knowledge is outstanding.
You'll be very happy...
You are absolutely correct Daniel, wood arrows just add a whole meaning to traditional IMHO. A good wood arrow is fun to shoot also, but carbon and aluminum is much more stable.
Talk to Steve to find out the specifics and then call David at Wilderness Custom Arrows. You can go Plain Jane all the way up to works of art.
Hi Daniel, congrats on the big win! Does your bow have a shelf that is cut to center? How was the nock fit on these arrows to your string?
If your arrows are closely spined, fletched correctly, and spin straight ( shaft, point, or nock can be out of line), and close in weight... they will fly consistently for you.
About building them: I have only been at it a couple of years. I have a spin tester, fletching jig, nock & point tapering tool, and a straightening tool. Of course, the adhesives,points, and feathers also. All these can be acquired pretty reasonably, especially if you find suitable stuff in the classifieds. Around the cost of 3 or 4 dozen good shafts.
What it does require a lot of is time and patience (at least for me). It can be very satisfying.
And, going back to the consistency: having the tools and understanding of building arrows lets me know what's up with the arrows, and correct when necessary.
All that said, if and when I do buy a made up set, I'll talk to Snag. He made my last set, and I'll add myself to the list of fans.
Why don't you click onto RMSGear and see what they can build for you......
... mike .. :archer2: ...
QuoteOriginally posted by snag:
Hi Daniel, congrats on the big win! Does your bow have a shelf that is cut to center? How was the nock fit on these arrows to your string?
snag, I know i replied to you pm, but I will reply here also so others can benefit from this thread.
My bow is cut back right to center, but not past center. The nocks fit very well.
The main reason I want them are for use in the tournament. I wouldn't hunt with them. Not that I am opposed to it, but I feel that I want to use the absolute best equipment possible and i feel that a wood arrow doesn't compare to a carbon in strength, consistency, nor penetration. Now I am only basing this off of my opinion, so it very well may be long. But when shooting those competitions, my carbons would go a few inches into the targets when the wood arrows would barely go past the point.
QuoteOriginally posted by mcgroundstalker:
Why don't you click onto RMSGear and see what they can build for you......
... mike .. :archer2: ...
Mcgroundstalker,
i would love to buy some, but i wouldn't be willing to pay what they are worth. I pay around $55/dzn for my carbon shafts and I couldn't see paying nearly 100 for arrows. Now that is not saying that it isn't worth every penny. But i wouldn't pay that. Just like a bow, a BW is worth $1300 to some people, and they shoot awesome(i own one), but i also traded a hoyt dorado to get it(the guy must have been on drugs, but i was not mad at him).
Making your own arrows doesn't require a great investment. All you need are a good fletching jig, some polyurethane, paper towels, and a method for cutting nock and point tapers. A good straightening hook and shaft spinner is good to have, too.
For tapers, I strongly suggest some type of disk sanding setup. True nock and point tapers are important for good and consistent arrow flight and sanding the tapers is the only way I have found to do that. I use a 4" belt/6" disk combo sander and find it to be great for tapers and a very versatile too for other things as well.
I called snag to help get my first woodies. Very helpful, and I figured I may as well get some of the best right from the start. They should be coming shortly I hope! :pray:
[[/QUOTE]Mcgroundstalker,
i would love to buy some, but i wouldn't be willing to pay what they are worth. I pay around $55/dzn for my carbon shafts and I couldn't see paying nearly 100 for arrows. Now that is not saying that it isn't worth every penny. But i wouldn't pay that. [/QUOTE]
Daniel, sounds like you might just want a set on hand for your competitions? If so, buying made up shafts is the way to go. Fine ones can be had for less than $100. When you say a dozen carbon shafts for $55, do you mean just shafts, or finished arrows? A set of premium wood shafts are around $40 a dozen.
You will not save money building your own unless you plan on making many dozen. If you do the math, you'll find buying a set really isn't much more than building your own, for the quality you're looking for. Particularly for a "plain, no frills" sort of arrow.
Depends what your real intention is, I guess.
I've shot nothing but woodies for probably 7 years now & I'm not looking back. They shoot well when matched to your bow & you. I think they quiet a bow, won't click & clack when you put them on your arrow rest, don't squeak as you draw, & just overall feel better. You won't get carbon splinters from them & contrary to popular opinion, I think they are just as tough as carbon or aluminum. I've had both carbon & aluminum split & shove the insert back into the shaft hitting a hard old stump. They will look rather like a banana peeled if hit straight on. A wooden shaft may have the point driven back onto the shaft it the taper doesn't fit the point, but I just trim the small splinters this leaves & go on. They will break with glancing shots, but so will carbon & aluminum.
Overall I like them a LOT better.
Good shooting.
QuoteOriginally posted by slowbowjoe:
[
Mcgroundstalker,
i would love to buy some, but i wouldn't be willing to pay what they are worth. I pay around $55/dzn for my carbon shafts and I couldn't see paying nearly 100 for arrows. Now that is not saying that it isn't worth every penny. But i wouldn't pay that. [/QUOTE]
Daniel, sounds like you might just want a set on hand for your competitions? If so, buying made up shafts is the way to go. Fine ones can be had for less than $100. When you say a dozen carbon shafts for $55, do you mean just shafts, or finished arrows? A set of premium wood shafts are around $40 a dozen.
You will not save money building your own unless you plan on making many dozen. If you do the math, you'll find buying a set really isn't much more than building your own, for the quality you're looking for. Particularly for a "plain, no frills" sort of arrow.
Depends what your real intention is, I guess. [/b][/QUOTE]
I think you may be correct Joe. I may just have to 'bite the bullet' and buy some.
I'd do my best to buy Steve's arrow. :bigsmyl:
A lot of the "problems" some people have with wood arrows are made out to be worse than they are. I have bounced back and forth between carbon and wood a number of times. "But carbon are so much tougher.." I tell myself. But they never feel right out of a trad bow to me. So I go back to my woodies. They don't cost that much, to build or buy, in the long run. Many of the supplies last for more than a few dozens of building, so that cost is defrayed to an extent. Do they need straightening from time to time? Yeah, but its not hard to do, 2 or 3 seconds? And my cedars never bend that much and I live in east alabama. Do they break? Yeah, so I build or buy more. Salvage the point and nock and it goes into the pile for spares. Besides I think I've broken...2 over the last year or so. Plenty of time and money in that period to pick up feathers, shafts, etc. wood isn't for everyone, and thats okay too. I just hate to see the "reasons" why be of such little things. Pick up a dozen, keep your carbons, and just shoot some of the wood on the weekends or something. Over time it'll all seem more managable and less like you're undertaking a huge endeavor by shooting wood. I'm just about to start my own building from raw shafts up, always bought pre-made arrows or finished shafting in the past. But I know it isnt a dark art. Some paint, some stain, some poly, some fletch tape and away-we-go. I wont make arrows like snag and some of the other guys here, haha but maybe thats a good thing, I think I'd cry if I broke one of those! One of mine? Eh, fly true, look "good", do the job, and when they break, grab some more shafting and do it again. Haha happy shooting whichever road you go!
Nothing in the world like shooting wood.
Daniel, if you are wanting these only for target use and don't plan on making more, I would suggest having a set made. How consistent they are will depend on you and your fletcher.
Woods can be as closely matched as alum or carbon, it just takes a large bunch of shafts and extra time and work to find them. For serious target I would suggest a range of 3 lb spine and 10 grains weight.
Your friend's arrows seem pretty close to your spine. Try paper tuning with them to find which arrow shoots best then send that arrow to your fletcher so he can adjust as needed and match up a set for you.
Congats Daniel on the LTB win you shot a great score. You might get in contact with Michael Harbison at btarchery@centurylink.net. He builds some wonderful arrows, he was at the S/H on Saturday, he builds some basic arrows that wont brake the bank. Of course he also builds some works of art and if you saw the ones he donated you know what he can do. He's lives south of DeRidder in Longville and he also makes some great strings and he's a life member of the LTB.
DJ
I have used many arrow types. I still go back to woods. Shoot best for me.
You should try carbons, aluminum, and woods.
Each has benefits, but is not the perfect arrow. If it was, the others would not still be made. One of them will be the best arrow for you. I like shooting all three types of arrows for fun because I have a few of each. However, the weight differences require me to re-learn to shoot each due to trajectory differences.
The other day we were shooting and a new guy showed up with some old fiberglass arrows. I was jealous.
My first bow was a Kodiak Hunter I bought in 1974 and the first and only arrows I ever shot off of it were fiberglass arrows from Kinsey's Archery.
I like wood , myself I think they are more durable over the long haul. Just gotta match them and keep them straight. I do think a spine tester is a must though
You can make (or have them made) wood arrows that can be just as consistent as alum or carbon. The last set I made for myself are all spined 74# and weigh within 6 grains of each other and shoot like darts.
I get the shafts from RMSGear and do the rest myself. I've made my own dip tubes from PVC, cresting machine from a drill and surgical tubing. I splurged on the woodchuck a few years ago for nock and point tapers because it's fast and easy.
If you're paying $55 for just carbon shafts, you won't be spending any more money on making your own wood arrows.
diy, it's too easy and not at all a great expense.
for the most accurate woodies, they need to be dead straight before, during and after shooting 'em. get them all matched as closely as possible in weight and spine - use a cheap digital scale for weighing and make a super simple "spine meter". check the shaft/arrow weight and spine both before and after finishing. yer most expensive tools will be the fletching jig (get a polycarb bohining, grayling, martin, etc for $30 - you do NOT need to spend a lot on a fletching jig!), a tapering tool for $5, some duco cement, some min wax wipe-on polyu for the finish ($9 will do hundreds of arrows). add in shafts (surewood doug fir!), points, nocks, feathers and yer good to go. making yer own arrows just adds another great dimension to traditional archery and bowhunting. go for it!
http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000119
You'll spend more money on trying to match shafts if you do it yourself. You'll end up buying several dozen arrows before you get a matched set. If you want a matched set, find someone that does it for you...you'll pay about $10 more for that service, but it's better than buying more than you need.
the thing about woodies is that you can have a perfectly matched set of shafts for both weight and marked sides for the exact same spine, yet after building those shafts into arrows some will just never fly the same as the rest. it's the unique nature of organic wood and why archers like howard hill would make up a hundred arrows and shoot 'em to find which ones flew the best and cull out the rest for other folks to use. and you will spend more for a good set of woodies than a set of carbons or alums. and after you use 'em they may need to get straightened out again and again. and they will dent and scratch and splinter. no matter how well sealed they will react to changes in temperature and humidity and fly well one day and badly the next. they're just fraught with pitfalls, but we do love 'em, don't we? :)
Anyone ever notice different woods that are the same spine tune differently? Have a combination of POC shaft/length/spine/point weight that works for me. Tried some shafts of a different wood and when I put them together they showed weak. Ended up dropping from 160 points to 125 to get them to fly to my liking.
Don't own a spine tester but have no reason to doubt the spine (they are from a very reputable supplier).
Do different woods possibly react different dynamically?
yep. static and dynamic spines are two totally different things. this is one reason why a specific size of carbon shaft can have a 15 to 20 pound spine range. that static/dynamic range is usually much smaller for woodies.
QuoteOriginally posted by Hermon:
Anyone ever notice different woods that are the same spine tune differently? Have a combination of POC shaft/length/spine/point weight that works for me. Tried some shafts of a different wood and when I put them together they showed weak. Ended up dropping from 160 points to 125 to get them to fly to my liking.
Don't own a spine tester but have no reason to doubt the spine (they are from a very reputable supplier
Do different woods possibly react different dynamically?
Yep, I've found the heavier the gpi, the weaker it acts.
QuoteOriginally posted by Cavscout9753:
A lot of the "problems" some people have with wood arrows are made out to be worse than they are. I have bounced back and forth between carbon and wood a number of times. "But carbon are so much tougher.." I tell myself. But they never feel right out of a trad bow to me. So I go back to my woodies. They don't cost that much, to build or buy, in the long run. Many of the supplies last for more than a few dozens of building, so that cost is defrayed to an extent. Do they need straightening from time to time? Yeah, but its not hard to do, 2 or 3 seconds? And my cedars never bend that much and I live in east alabama. Do they break? Yeah, so I build or buy more. Salvage the point and nock and it goes into the pile for spares. Besides I think I've broken...2 over the last year or so. Plenty of time and money in that period to pick up feathers, shafts, etc. wood isn't for everyone, and thats okay too. I just hate to see the "reasons" why be of such little things. Pick up a dozen, keep your carbons, and just shoot some of the wood on the weekends or something. Over time it'll all seem more managable and less like you're undertaking a huge endeavor by shooting wood. I'm just about to start my own building from raw shafts up, always bought pre-made arrows or finished shafting in the past. But I know it isnt a dark art. Some paint, some stain, some poly, some fletch tape and away-we-go. I wont make arrows like snag and some of the other guys here, haha but maybe thats a good thing, I think I'd cry if I broke one of those! One of mine? Eh, fly true, look "good", do the job, and when they break, grab some more shafting and do it again. Haha happy shooting whichever road you go!
I would bet that you are right. I bet they aren't that much weaker than carbons, but i know they are less durable. I tend to shoot a lot and one thing I noticed from shooting tournaments is the ware that happens to the wood right behind the point after extended use. I would love to have some nice wood arrows, and hopefully will build some in the future.
QuoteOriginally posted by donnyjack:
Congats Daniel on the LTB win you shot a great score. You might get in contact with Michael Harbison at btarchery@centurylink.net. He builds some wonderful arrows, he was at the S/H on Saturday, he builds some basic arrows that wont brake the bank. Of course he also builds some works of art and if you saw the ones he donated you know what he can do. He's lives south of DeRidder in Longville and he also makes some great strings and he's a life member of the LTB.
DJ
Donny, I didn't even think about him. I will get in contact with him and see what he charges for a dozen. Steve Raggio said that he may be able match me up 6 or so, so I will see how they turn out.
I may end up loving wood so much I give up carbons.. we will see! lol
Thank you for all the replies guys!
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
diy, it's too easy and not at all a great expense.
for the most accurate woodies, they need to be dead straight before, during and after shooting 'em. get them all matched as closely as possible in weight and spine - use a cheap digital scale for weighing and make a super simple "spine meter". check the shaft/arrow weight and spine both before and after finishing. yer most expensive tools will be the fletching jig (get a polycarb bohining, grayling, martin, etc for $30 - you do NOT need to spend a lot on a fletching jig!), a tapering tool for $5, some duco cement, some min wax wipe-on polyu for the finish ($9 will do hundreds of arrows). add in shafts (surewood doug fir!), points, nocks, feathers and yer good to go. making yer own arrows just adds another great dimension to traditional archery and bowhunting. go for it!
http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000119
Rob,
thank you for all your info. I always like being "invested" in my equipment. I already have a fletching jig so I guess I have the most expensive equipment already.
One of the coolest parts about winning the event was that I won it with a bow I built 2 years ago. Not the best looking bow, but it does shoot very well.
Haha oh man, if you're building bows I think woodys will be much easier!