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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Tim on May 02, 2014, 02:30:00 PM

Title: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: Tim on May 02, 2014, 02:30:00 PM
Hopefully someone may learn from this post.       :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: Scott E on May 02, 2014, 03:06:00 PM
http://archersparadoxdotorg.wordpress.com/

A good article on elbow pain from archery.
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: A.S. on May 02, 2014, 03:13:00 PM
Amen Tim!  I hope left handed continues to go well for you...Baltimore is coming up!   :archer:  

My shoulder/elbow is feeling much better since I went back to a more canted bow instead of a vertical bow.
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: KSdan on May 02, 2014, 03:19:00 PM
I read the above posted article.  The PHP is amazing new tech.  HOWEVER- equal and foundational to PHP is the actual injection process- even using just dextrose solution.  Its called Prolotherapy.  I knew the Dr. that brought it here from London Eng- 40+ years ago. It is now finally gaining interest; NFL, NBA are all using it.  Dr. Dean Reeves MD (KU med amongst other places) in Kansas City has continued to forge this tech.  Read up on it!  I had an elbow issue as mentioned here (amongst a few other joints over the past 20 years)- and while I was told by mainline orthos and others that it would take forever (if ever) to heal- Prolotherapy had me healed in 6 weeks.  Done.  Never a problem again- its been 10 years!  And I can tell you of many other stories.  Before any surgery guys- you REALLY need to research this type of tx.  There are NO side-affects.  Have many friends receive similar benefits/results.  

Dan in KS
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: Todd Cook on May 02, 2014, 03:22:00 PM
I hate that but at least you can shoot lefty. I really think that upright target style is hard on the joints with hunting weight bows. Hope it goes well for you.
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: riverrat 2 on May 02, 2014, 03:47:00 PM
Tim,I hope it does heal up on it's own. Very good advice anyhow. I wish you the very best of luck on your follow-up with the Orthopedist. Hope your left hand transition is a smooth,quick one. Best
regards,  rat'   :campfire:
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: carpin'mark on May 02, 2014, 04:22:00 PM
Thanks guys for the PHP/Prolotherapy info, I'm going to be looking into that for myself,  very interesting. I had never heard of it, probably because it doesn't involve drugs or surgery. Thanks again.
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: mmisciag on May 02, 2014, 04:29:00 PM
Sorry to hear about that Tim. Tendons are a serious thing to play with. It may feel better if you don't work it to much but an MRI will give the doctor a better idea of whats going on. If I know you, you will do whats best.

Martin
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: Tall Paul on May 02, 2014, 05:11:00 PM
Tim,

I went through a similar experience, but it was both elbows.  I had Tennis elbow and Golfers elbow.  I had to take an entire YEAR off from shooting my bow.

I'm certainly not an expert, but what little I do know, is that it is unlikely to "heal up on it's own".  If your physician is an Orthopedic surgeon, I'm surprised she didn't prescribe Physical Therapy with some cortizone injections.

I would have never recovered if not for PT. Much more important-in my case-than the injections. My Orthopod sent me to a therapist that specialized in the hand and elbow.

If you're having that kind of pain, it might be wise to get a second opinion. I wouldn't want to just sit around for six months and hope it went away on its own.

Does your Orthopod specialize in Sports Injuries?
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: BOWMARKS on May 02, 2014, 05:16:00 PM
Hope things work out for you.
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: fmscan on May 02, 2014, 05:24:00 PM
Tim, very sorry for yours injury. Years ago I played a lot of tennis & racquet ball and I know the pain can be severe. For what it's worth a guy recommended a sleeve that fit tight around elbow. It was made of material like a wetsuit. It was like a charm, work extremely well. Would hold heat in and I never had a problem and played a lot of tennis. Give it a shot, I got mine at a drug store or medical supply store.
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: ron w on May 02, 2014, 05:41:00 PM
I have had problems with both elbows. The first from 38 years of repetitive motion. The second, believe it or not was from pulling arrows from my target in my daily shooting ritual. On both counts I got it fixed with therapy and deep massage. Now I just have to be mindful of my actions. Best of luck.......   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: nineworlds9 on May 02, 2014, 05:58:00 PM
Tim, I'm a lefty.  I've been battling tennis elbow caused by a non-archery related activity in my right arm for over a year now.  If has significantly improved with deep massage and home 'therapy' of stretching and range of motion exercises.  But its not all gone.  Surprisingly archery doesn't seem to bother it.  I keep my bow arm slightly bent, and I have an instinctive/ split vision style of shooting where I 'almost' border on snap shooting haha.  More of just a fairly quick pace of draw anchor release.  The lack of aggravation must have something to to do with my semi-relaxed grip and the fact that I don't hold at anchor very long.

Best of luck staying in the saddle.  Take it easy and keep at it.  Massage and stretch that sucker, especially the muscles in your forearm,  it will hurt but it will help.
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: steadman on May 02, 2014, 06:05:00 PM
Crazy you posted this Tim. I just went in yesterday for my elbow. It's golfers elbow. Pt is the prescription for now with the platelet injection if that doesn't work. Good luck buddy!
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: Pointer on May 02, 2014, 08:10:00 PM
Tim..I've suffered with it for many years and sometimes it was severe.  Tennis, golf and archery. There is no "cure all" but look into the TheraBand Flex Bar.  It's a rubber bar that you will hold and basically engage in what are called eccentric exercises for the affected elbow.Got mine for about $15 and I cannot even begin to describe how much it improved my condition. Good Luck
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: Mr. fingers on May 02, 2014, 09:19:00 PM
There's a load of videos on YouTube of exercises and stretches to help with tennis elbow.
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: Sam McMichael on May 02, 2014, 09:26:00 PM
I have had issues with both elbows that have required physical therapy and steroid shots. Its better, but I still have flare ups. The only thing that helps is to rest it till the inflammation subsides. I suggest cutting back on the number of arrows you shoot. After all, it is the number of effective shots you make that keep you sharp, not the total number of arrows flung down range. Good luck.
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: KyRidgeRunner on May 02, 2014, 09:47:00 PM
Lots of good info here!  I'm having trouble myself,  actually for a couple of years....   I've traded bows several times and tried about everything except going to a dr!   :knothead:
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: azhunter on May 02, 2014, 10:52:00 PM
Tim, I saw an orthopedic surgeon 6 years ago for tennis elbow. I could hardly raise a cup of coffe to my mouth and that is not an exageration. He injected my elbow with a cortisone injection. But what he did and it was a big needle is while he injected my elbow he scraped around on the elbow bone with the needle then injected the cortisone. He said that scraping around on the bone is as important in getting that area to heal as the cortisone itself. It was not much fun but I have not had a bit of pain in that elbow and it is in the arm I hold the bow with. It took several weeks for it to heal but not an ounce of pain since. The pain was so bad I thought I would never feel normal again.
Best wishes,
Mark
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: Tim on May 02, 2014, 11:14:00 PM
Thanks to everyone that responded.  My doc was a college athlete and has battled with the same issues the past few years.  We did discuss the cortisone shot, the PT and the PHP procedure.  The PHP is either hit or miss, working wonderfully for some and not so much for others, but definitely an option.   My son is going to school to become a PT so he's helped me learn some of the stretches used to rehab this type of injury.  Problem is we use our elbows so much in daily activity it's very easy to aggravate the area.  

I did correct my initial post, I have what is referred to as golfers elbow, pain in the inner elbow.  Tennis elbow is pain in the outer elbow.  As I said, for now I will just go back to shooting left handed and give it a good rest.   Good luck to all you wounded archers, sure is tough putting the bow down, even for a few weeks!
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: beachbowhunter on May 03, 2014, 01:13:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by steadman:
Crazy you posted this Tim. I just went in yesterday for my elbow. It's golfers elbow. Pt is the prescription for now with the platelet injection if that doesn't work. Good luck buddy!
It must be going around. I just went for my first PT session on my bow arm elbow. It has been bad for a couple of months.
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: on May 03, 2014, 02:25:00 AM
I started to have elbow problems shooting a target bow that was a third the weight of my hunting bow.  A topped out elbow joint was the culprit and the long holding time did not help.  That target form messed with my Hill style shooting anyway, I would rather have no pain even if my draw length is a bit shorter.
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: DWT on May 03, 2014, 06:05:00 AM
I too have been having isues with my bow arm elbow.  I have been shooting a little heavier bow than normal 70lbs vs 65lbs at my draw and it seems just 5 lbs makes a difference in weather or not it bothers me, as soon as my new bow arrives im sending this one in to have 5 pounds shaved off it.
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: akbowbender on May 04, 2014, 02:05:00 PM
Since I switched to shooting straight grip Hill style bows, I haven't had any elbow problems. A high wrist grip creates a lot of tension on the tendon at the back of the elbow.
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: Tater on May 04, 2014, 02:33:00 PM
Tim,
 Wow sorry to hear about the elbow, Take it easy (sounds like you are) and follow the rehab program.
  At least you can shoot lefty.
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: Guru on May 04, 2014, 02:47:00 PM
Mine started in my bow arm the last of summer '13(drawing elbow has bothered my at work for a years, but not drawing a bow), shot a lighter bow most of the season.

When it wasn't better by early winter,I went to the doc....said it was biciptal tendonitis. Both elbows!

Three months of PT and it still hurts!  Some days are better than others....
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: Keith Langford on May 04, 2014, 03:21:00 PM
I feel your pain , literally, had the same thing for the entire 2012, could not shoot for 14 month's. Now it's the shoulder, been down since September 2013. Good advice on the practice tip's Tim.
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: stiknstringer on May 04, 2014, 07:56:00 PM
Tim, sorry about the elbow but I'm glad you still have the lefty option. Hope we can get together for some bunnies this season.
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: The Night Stalker on May 04, 2014, 08:43:00 PM
Tim, you know the weights thing when were younger did a number.  My right elbow is wired together with circlage, ( one of many horse accidents).  My  left elbow hurts a little when I shoot and hold for seconds. I dropped down in weight to 45-47 lb bows and found out that Arnies rotational draw with a loose arm  does wonders for me.  I am not a supporter of injections because of their effect on synovial surface of its close to the joint.
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: monkeyball on May 04, 2014, 08:47:00 PM
Tim,
      I can semi-relate with you. No elbow issues, but dumped my bike last Sept. while getting ready for a race. Separated shoulders are not user friendly while shooting your bow either. I shot just enough to stay sharp thru hunting season. It has just been starting to feel a little closer to normal.

  The weekend before Easter I was splitting firewood,had to move the splitter so grabbed it around the tongue and post with my good arm(right) and lifted it up and went. The ground was really soft and we kind of slowed down so I just put my head down and grunted through it. Felt and heard a pop in my shoulder,uh-oh,not smart.  

 I now have a torn right bicep to go with my left separated shoulder. It is fun getting older...... Take care of that elbow.

                                                Good Shooting,
                                                              Craig
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: Tim on May 04, 2014, 08:56:00 PM
Lots of good stuff here!  

We all seem to be falling apart in one way or another....   :laughing:  

.
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: A.S. on May 05, 2014, 06:08:00 AM
I'm not a doctor...but I do play one on the internet....   :saywhat:  

I'm thinking some good Southern fried food and a proper thrashing on the 3D range is just the ticket to recovery for you Tim.   :jumper:
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: NittanyRider on May 05, 2014, 07:51:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by Tim:
We all seem to be falling apart in one way or another....    :dunno:    
Ain't that the truth!

Good luck with your rehab, Tim!
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: Tim on May 05, 2014, 09:34:00 AM
quote:
Originally posted by A.S.:

I'm thinking some good Southern fried food and a proper thrashing on the 3D range is just the ticket to recovery for you Tim.     :biglaugh:   Calling me out at the Baltimore shoot, eh? Soon my friend, very soon!    :archer2:
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: A.S. on May 05, 2014, 11:02:00 AM
:knothead:    :laughing:
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: Huntrdfk on May 05, 2014, 11:25:00 AM
Sorry to hear that Tim. I went through it a few years ago on my bow arm, couldn't lift a cup a coffee. I laid off shooting AND playing golf for a couple of months, luckily I have been ok since.

Hope this all works out for you.

David
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: Kyle Lancaster on May 05, 2014, 04:26:00 PM
I wish you the best Tim in your recovery.
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: Big Ed on May 05, 2014, 04:39:00 PM
Allen had the remedy with the food and thrashing! I'll bring some refreshments to help sooth your pain.
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: Gregg S on May 07, 2014, 04:11:00 PM
Do you think that one type of bow can cause it more then another. For example. A straight grip straight longbow verses a recurve?
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: Tim on May 08, 2014, 02:05:00 PM
Hey Greg,

I think it was more the result of me over extending my bow arm to get that extra 1/2 of draw.  For me, the vertical bow placement during my shot also seemed to apply some more pressure to my elbow.

I've stressed my elbows joints pretty much all my life with sports and my hobbies.  I definitely felt the elbow more while shooting lighter physical weight bows, especially straight limb longbows without a quiver but again, I wouldn't blame the bow.  The last few months before it got too bad to shoot high wrist recurves hurt the most.

Tim
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: hockey7 on May 08, 2014, 02:48:00 PM
-there was real good post on another site...I think LWall...about injections of your own blood platelets into the area which created more oxygen and sped up healing time. No drugs involved. Do a search...it might help.
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: Bullfrog 1 on May 08, 2014, 03:00:00 PM
Hey Tim,
I see that elbow finally did you in. I actually had more issues when I shot a recurve but I guess thats just me.
Anyway, the thing with epicondylitis(which is a true inflammation issue) is that you MUST decrease that inflammation. This is done with meds, ice, injection or whatever. ONCE the inflammation is decreased you can proceed with your activity. PROPER stretching is key here at this point.
If there is a partial tear of the tendon, that will heal on its own IF you allow it. This is where you must really be careful because that partial tear can become fully torn or avulsed from the bone and this will NOT heal and have to be repaired.
I am an advocate of injections if not abused. I have had many myself and if left to heal can work great. I would rather have the medication injected right to the site that you know is invlolved instead of injesting a medication that must go through your system and cause GOD knows what.
Finally, yes over doing it is the worst thing you can do( I know this from experience) and SHOULD know better. I think I ahve finally learned that. Good luck and God bless my friend.
BILL
Title: Re: The dreaded "ELBOW" issue
Post by: shedhunta on May 08, 2014, 10:37:00 PM
Sorry to hear about your pain Tim.  Now me and the guys will not be able to bet on if you are gonna shoot righty or lefty today??   We can still bet on split or 3 under so all is not lost.  Hope you heal up quickly!!!