I am thinking about going back to wood shafts. I have two questions that I would like to settle in mind first.
1. How often would I lose field points in 3D targets?
2. What type of wood is best for both hunting and 3D for a light poundage bow?
I am shooting a 40 pound longbow so I don't want the overall arrow weight to be too heavy.
I don't think you will loose points in 3D targets if you have a taper tool that makes the right taper. If the taper is right, hot melt or epoxy will work well. As for the wood, there are a lot of good arrow woods but cedar has stood the test of time and probably the one I would go with and it is on the lighter weight side.
I haven't used cedar, but I've been using Surewood's Douglas FIr shafts and they are very nice.
All mine are in 23/64" so I think they're a bit heavier than the 11/32", but they come in around 475gr-525gr @ near full length with 125gr point.
I use them for hunting and 3D for bows around 45# (but only 25-26" draw) and they're not super fast, but they usually get around 150fps-160fps depending on the excat bow and arrow.
I haven't lost many points into 3D targets. When I have lost points, I've noticed that the hot melt glue always seems to stick to the wood and not the metal so I try to rough the inside of the points with coarse sandpaper before gluing to get some adhesion inside the point.
I suppose using a permanent glue would also work.
Been shooting wood for about 8 years now. The only 3D shooting I do is backyard target practice.
1)I've never lost one in a foam target of any type. Just prep the point good and use good glue. To clean point I use q-tip soaked with paint thinner then heat the point up to burn it clean. They now make tappered wire brush and that would be a good thing to pick up.
2)I started with tappered sitka spruce and they worked great. Last couple I've done has been with douglas fir and only reason I got that was cause the supplier was low on sitka and he said douglas fir was even more durable. I think they are more durable. Sitka should be lighter in weight than the douglas.
I'd buy good shafts the first time around and buy right from the source like Surewood Shafts or from
Kootenai River. I honestly believe you'll get a better matched set that way.
Also I'd buy them already tappered. It's usually only a few dollars more to have them tappered and from what I hear the douglas fir do not tapper well with a pencil sharpener type of tappering tool so you'd need to invest in a good tappering tool.
Making the arrows your up yourself is the most fun part of wood arrows. And honestly it's easy to do and you don't need any dip tubes for sealing. Just wipe on stain and then use wipe on poly to seal them. Duco cement for the nocks and a hot melt for the points.
If you don't want to do that then I'd contact Snag as it sounds like he does a great job with them.
Cedar and Doug fir are both good choices, over the years I have grown more fond of fir over cedar. I have always used hot melt with my wood arrows and it is a rare occasion that I lose one in a 3 D target, use an ample amount of hot melt and be sure your tapers fit well. Be sure to use enough heat when putting the field point on and good pressure held on the head while the hot melt cools.
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... mike ... :archer2: ...
I shoot cedar almost exclusively but also like Douglas Fir. Some also like Sitka Spruce. I do lose a field point every now and again but most often in cold weather. It is not a significant problem. Just carry a few extra arrows in the car just in case a point is lost. (or keep extra points and some hot melt handy). These woods are all good for both 3D and hunting. The only difference in my 3D arrows and hunting arrows is the broad head. Some of my hunting arrows are some that I have used in 3D and then put BH points on.
The secret is to heat the INSIDE of the point really hot with a propane torch to burn out any oil from the manufacuring process.
Light arrows are fine for 3-D shoots however, for hunting, its best to go on the heavier side for achieving optimum penetration.
I would go Sitka spruce or cedar for 3D and hunting. I shot Doug Fir out of my 40 lbs longbow last year and I thought they were too heavy.
I'm sure a 425-450 grain arrow would be fine. Right now my carbons are 585 grains. Just a little too heavy and I am noticing diminishing returns on arrow performance out to 20-30 yards.
QuoteOriginally posted by reddogge:
The secret is to heat the INSIDE of the point really hot with a propane torch to burn out any oil from the manufacuring process.
I use 91% alcohol or acetone to clean the tips first. I found using a hot air paint stripper gun works great for heating the points (held with parallel jaw pliers) and to heat after setting in place.
I may lose a point once in 200 shots. Can't say never. But then I get pretty good penetration in foam. 5" to 6" with Douglas fir shafts that go about 600 to 620 grains when done up.
I would go with the cedar for 3D shooting just to keep it light with your 40# bow. I shoot heavy (675 gr) arrows in my 37 to 43 lb bows and they do fall of very fast after about 20 yards. That's ok for my kind of shooting since it's mostly to hunt and I can't hit much beyond 20 yards anyway :)
Have been thinking lately on the lines of lighter arrows for targets and small game. Might consider a 5/16th if one is available with enough spine.
I shoot 23/64" port orford cedar shafts, 29.5" long and spined @ 70-75# from my 62# Black Widow recurve. They weigh about 650 grain, fly well and have gone completely through black bear, deer and have taken a variety of small game. I use the same arrows for 3-D with good results. I am a firm believer in shooting the same set-up for 3-D and for hunting if your primary reason for shooting 3-D is to be a better shot for bowhunting big or small game.
a bit of car wax on the first 120 inches and your good.
QuoteOriginally posted by ironmike:
a bit of car wax on the first 120 inches and your good.
You shoot a looooooooooooooong arrow! :biglaugh:
One of the good things about wood is that lighter spine shafts tend to have less mass weight, so they kind of adjust to the bow. Fir has been my favorite arrow wood for many years and Surewood Shafts is producing some very nice Douglas Fir shafting these days. Even with my lightest bow, 37@26, I like a min 500 gr arrow for hunting and found this pretty doable with fir. Sitka Spruce is another good arrow wood but it runs pretty light.
Points properly installed rarely come off. Clean the inside of the point well, scuff it if you want. Get the point and glue hot enuf that the glue evens out easily, but not so hot that the glue bubbles. I prefer the Kimsha big stick glue to the others.
Enjoy the shooting satisfaction that only wood arrows can give.
Sitka spruce or cedars, to get the weight you want. Doug fir is a nice shaft, but at my 43lbs or so, getting the lightest doug fir I can, with 125grn point the lightest I can get is around 10.5-11gpp.
That's sealing with Tung oil, which adds less weight than poly's or lacquers.
I like the strength of fir, the beauty of the grain, and how it looks with some stain... but the spruce, at around 10gpp, seems to shoot flatter and group closer. Just my .02.
Check with Tommy at RMS. He sells shafts that are all matched by spine, not in a 5# range. Tips need attention during application. First clean out the taper with acetone and clean them out with a small wire brush. A .33 cal works well. I have used the low temp, blue stick, Ferr-L-tite with great success. If you know that you will not be changing them, use epoxy.
Along with cleaning the points, I find it really important to cool the points once they are on properly. I hold the point in place with pliers when they spin straight, and run them under cool water for a few seconds. Or dip 'em in a cup of water. Otherwise, the warm glue is still expanding, and the point will move a little. I lost a bunch of points before picking up that tip, and very, very rarely do now.
Thanks for all the input fellas. I never thought to clean the inside of the point. I'm sure that would certainly help. Even after 7-8 years there is still a learning curve......
You'd probably be happiest with POC or Sitka Spruce for a lower weight bow. Whatever you do get top quality shafts. Arrow shafts are not the place to try to save a buck IMO.
Sitka spruce for that bow or cedar 5/16ths if you can find it. I use epoxy 2 part for points clean em out first they never come loose.mho
Sitka Spruce hands down. Light and amazingly durable for such a light wood.
Kustom King is selling a German spruce shafting. I just bought a dozen shafts and they were very light for raw shafts. The grain was very straight.
Diminishing returns in what medium. Animals or foam. IMO, You won't get better penetration from a light wood arrow than you will those 585gr carbons. Unless your carbon arrow is poorly tuned.