Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: longbow fanatic 1 on April 04, 2014, 07:31:00 PM
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What wood do you think makes the best limb core wood and why? Bamboo? Red Elm? Maple?
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In my experience they are very much the same although others will disagree. Personally I leave the decision to the bowyer as there are other aspects to consider like how well does it adhere to carbon in a lay up.
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I'm sure some bowyers can chime in with something more definitive but I've always been partial to bamboo or maple. Bamboo because it's light and quick and maple for its durability and strength.
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I like and have shot with Bamboo for years but for the past five it has been carbon limb cores. The carbon cores are not only quick but they have a different feel than the bamboo. This feel is at the end as the shot is snappy with no limb vibration.
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Ask your bowyer. My primary bow has black walnut cores for both sets of limbs and I have been nothing but happy.
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I just received my first bow with red elm cores and I have bows with bamboo, maple and yew...I believe that limb design and execution is more important than core material...I agree with simply letting the bowyer choose their preferred material
DDave
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DDave pretty much nailed it.
Though I will say I'm pretty sure the different core woods have very slight variations in draw feel and shot feel. So far my favorite bows have always been boo, boo and carbon, or different types of maple.
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Wow! That's the first time that I've ever heard that limb design beats limb core material. Talk about epiphany!
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Well think of the factors involved. Lam thickness, tapers, deflex/reflex ratio vs just material type. And it could be said that the wood is just something for the chosen fiber material, be it glass or carbon, to adhere to. I think mass is definitely a factor when it comes to core wood. Boo is obviously lighter..yew, maple, osage, etc heavier. Perhaps the wood type might affect the harmonics of the limb? Much like a wood choice would affect the tone of an instrument? Bowyers are the ones to chime in on this subject.
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Actually limb design and core are both importasnt. In fact the entire component and design determine which is the absolute best core for that particular design. Generically I go with actionboo or clear vertical grain maple. As to the best probably actionboo or action eastern maple with clear vertical maple being as good if it is graded tight.
I happen to love good claro walnut and have built some of the smoothest bows with it. Also yew is great and adds a great color in the right situations.
I would be willing to bet that clear , vertical grain Doug Fir would be a top if not the top core material. It could also make a great actionwood.
God bless, Steve
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Personally, I like bamboo.
But, bamboo isn't wood so it doesn't really fit with the question. Bamboo is a grass.
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check out kennym on the bowyers bench he built 4 o5 bows same design same draw weight, and tested them all- force draw curves chrono and personal observation. very good thread- some real, and definitive answers there.
cheers
wayne
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hey longbow fanatic, I see that you own a NM Shelton. Steve Turay is a great guy to have this conversation with. When I asked him the same basic question, his response was that there is really little difference because the glass does most of the work anyway.
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Bill Dunn just built me a beautiful zipper SXT recurve.
When I commented on how it was noticeably faster than any other recurve or longbow that I have, I said..."it must be that layer of carbon fibre".
He remarked that it had something to do with it, but that it is mostly design that makes the difference.
Can't wait to shoot it with you again this Summer.
I'll be home mid May and we must get out to some 3Ds again.
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Originally posted by Joe2Crow:
hey longbow fanatic, I see that you own a NM Shelton. Steve Turay is a great guy to have this conversation with. When I asked him the same basic question, his response was that there is really little difference because the glass does most of the work anyway.
:thumbsup:
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Originally posted by beaunaro:
Bill Dunn just built me a beautiful zipper SXT recurve.
When I commented on how it was noticeably faster than any other recurve or longbow that I have, I said..."it must be that layer of carbon fibre".
He remarked that it had something to do with it, but that it is mostly design that makes the difference.
Can't wait to shoot it with you again this Summer.
Sounds great, Irv! I can't wait to see that Zipper! :archer2:
I'll be home mid May and we must get out to some 3Ds again.
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ok... so just copied the results from Kenny's thread with the test bows that he built specifically for the experiment- so these are real results- comparing apples with apples!!
no assumptions or guesses!
here is a link to the thread- long- but tons of good info in there about power lams etc!!
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=125;t=001491;p=11
"OK, here goes!
Shot with mechanical release on Hooter Shooter
These bows were made as close as possible to each other with
64" length
.355 total stack
.003" per inch total taper
4 wood lams
2 pcs black glass
18" riser
10 strand D97 endless string
brass nockset
Here is the data,I used the same arrow for all bows(sorry,limited time with hootershooterbefore sending one bow to charity auction!)
The arrow weighed 437 grains
All bows chronoed at 28" draw length
Actionboo bow
48 #
181.1 fps
Maple bow
49#
182.1 fps
Red elm bow
49.8#
183.0 fps
Walnut bow
46.5#
181.1 fps [TYPO !!! Shoulda been 180.8!!]
[knothead]
--------------------------------------------------
Now for some fun info...
62" walnut bow same specs just 2" shorter
51.6#
187.8 fps
My hunting bow with string puffs 62" bow
52.9# @28"
186.5 fps
w/o string puffs same bow
192.1
29" draw-56.8# (7.69 gpp) w/o puffs
200.8 fps
30" draw -59.4# (7.36gpp) w/o puffs
209.5 fps
---------------------------------------------
Draw force All are 64" except noted,all gain even 2.5 out to 32 except 62" at bottom
A-boo
48@28
57.7@32
Maple
49@28
58.5@32
Red elm
49.8@28
59.1@32
Walnut
46.5@28
56.3@32
62" walnut
51.6@28
53.9@29
57@30
59.6@31
63.2@32
Gaining avg of around 2.5#per inch except the 62" bow is gaining faster after 29"
This data was collected to the best of our ability,YER MILEAGE MAY VARY [Cool]
[ November 16, 2009, 10:01 PM: Message edited by: kennym ]
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Stay sharp, Kenny."
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what i see is the results are so close that i doubt anybody could "feel" the difference in speed- but could maybe feel smoothness of draw etc
what would be interesting to see, is some blindfold tests, repeatedly, and in different orders,and with different "drawers" and see if one particular bow proves itself consistently as the best, to see if one particular core material does give a smoother draw or not!!??
based on these results i am going to say that design makes the biggest difference!! :D
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I think to really compare you need to build the bows all in the same design with the different cores. And even then one bowman might like the feel of one over the other.
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yup thats exactly what kenny did ...
see above in my post- all the bows are off the same form- different cores only - everything else exactly the same- all made by the same bowyer- same caul pressures , same amt. glue etc etc etc
and they were all shot out of a shooting machine with a mechanical release- cant get fairer than that!!!!
check out the thread- tons of info in there!
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Very interresting Kenny(s thread,but here they just speak about speed.
What about limbs stability versus differents core ??????
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Over the last 30 or so years I have(and still) own numerous Hill and Hill style bows, all 66-70" with most 68". Purely a qualitative viewpoint, but the 5 lam, all bamboo Wesley Specials have always felt the smoothest, had the liveliest cast, and the least, if any handshock.
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I will do my best to stay on topic, but allot of questions here.
The real answer to first post, The core that works best for you! I've seen boo excel and be inefficient, sometimes tillering boo is a bear and causing the 2 limbs not to function so identical. Elm is a winner because it rides the fence, good feel reasonable speed and looks good. Maple has many hard spots, stiffer feel and not the quickest response but holds up well.
Design does beat core material and different cores will respond different as per design.
In general, a laminated core is superior through fact they are evenly stressed as the properties of solid wood change every inch.
Feel and harmonics do change according to the core whereas the crono may not agree.
Glass IS NOT doing the work!!!!! If that were true at all then explain those incredible non laminated self bows that, some, keep up with the best of the best. Glass simply holds the cut-through-grain together as without it bending fractures the cut grain. Further more, solid glass limbs are lucky to shoot 25 yards.
For most people, you get a bow in your hand and love it or grab another, they don't have the opportunity to pick up 4 of the exact same bow model made in 4 cores of the same pull weight on the same day to see the difference, so focus on design and trust the bowyers recommendation when you tell him what you want out of your bow IE..smoother feel, a certain look, more speed, more reliable (some have habit of dropping the bow from 15') etc..
The above is based on over 35 years of extensive bow testing and bow building, hope it helps.
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All my bows are bamboo core.
:thumbsup: